Big Ten incoming freshman article

[iubud]

And their guards who were commonly blamed for the losses are now sophomores. PU could be very good.

Players don't automatically get better because they are sophomores. purdoo's starting guards are decent and started off well enough but struggled against athletic guards. They aren't going to get more athletic. You have to prevent the guards from getting the ball in deep to Edey. You do that by pressure on the guards and wings outside the 3 point line. This takes away easy entry passes and the open 3s, Get in their grille and make them put the ball on the floor.

I expected other teams to do what Woody did earlier in the season. It is interesting that we beat them the second time by JHS taking the open shot off the pick and roll instead of the scoring duel in the first game between TJD and Edey. I would imagine purdoo's opponents studied our two games and there are now more games showing how to exploit size with quickness.

Furst is the player we will need to watch.

 

[GeorgeStrait IU]

They will say that because of Colvin, granted Painter's refusal to ever get out in transition severely negates Colvin's greatest strength. And even if they wanted too, they couldn't because of Edey. They will play in the half court 95% of the time and run everything through Edey, it's what CMP does.

They're very high on Heide because he jumps really high and does electric dunks in warmups, mind you he redshirted last year while a guy like Ethan Morton played 20+ mpg. He's been hurt for the better part of the last 2 seasons dating back to high school and has only played in a handful of competitive since.

So Herb Dove? vbg

 

[kkott]

Yawn. Wake me up when PU is more athletic than FDU. PU constantly loses to mid-majors, and last year was the worst loss in NCAAT history. You don't withdraw from the draft if you're good enough to get drafted, especially when your stock will never be higher.

You swapped Colvin for Newman: big whoop. Same team. Get ready for Lucy to yank the football away once again: everybody else who is not you can see it coming a mile away.

The guys on Assembly Call had such a great idea and IU missed a terrific marketing opp: we should have tried to work a deal to bring FDU to Btown this year. Maybe sell shirts that say something like: "The enemy of my enemy is my friend. Welcome Knights!" Of course then we'd need to make sure we beat their ass! Would have been great to amp up the rivalry and try and get it back to being the B10's version of Duke v UNC.

 

[IUNorth]

The guys on Assembly Call had such a great idea and IU missed a terrific marketing opp: we should have tried to work a deal to bring FDU to Btown this year. Maybe sell shirts that say something like: "The enemy of my enemy is my friend. Welcome Knights!" Of course then we'd need to make sure we beat their ass! Would have been great to amp up the rivalry and try and get it back to being the B10's version of Duke v UNC.

First 3 games of the year...FDU, St Peters, North Texas...and then not commenting on the PU connection at all...THAT would be the most savage thing we could do.

 

[steelyvan]

My one argument would be Purdue is way more athletic than last year. Granted, didn't take much.... and they are going to run some different stuff offensively it seems.

BN,
We will all get to see an early indication of how athletic PU is on Dec 9th. PU vs Bama in Toronto.
B10 plodders vs SEC athletes. Interesting match up.

 

[kkott]

BN,
We will all get to see an early indication of how athletic PU is on Dec 9th. PU vs Bama in Toronto.
B10 plodders vs SEC athletes. Interesting match up.

Ha! That's what you think! Even if they were to get outclassed athletically and lose by 20, BN and his ilk will be back here the next day talking about how PU's athletes were sick, injured or got unfair fouls called on them. Heck MP will be talking about the fouls after the game if that's the case.

 

[kkott]

First 3 games of the year...FDU, St Peters, North Texas...and then not commenting on the PU connection at all...THAT would be the most savage thing we could do.

A little late for that, and the FDU loss, because it was so glaring, made most people forget about the others for the most part.

 

[BoilerN]

BN,
We will all get to see an early indication of how athletic PU is on Dec 9th. PU vs Bama in Toronto.
B10 plodders vs SEC athletes. Interesting match up.

Might get the chance before then in Maui. Purdue has a really good non-con imo.

 

[BoilerN]

Ha! That's what you think! Even if they were to get outclassed athletically and lose by 20, BN and his ilk will be back here the next day talking about how PU's athletes were sick, injured or got unfair fouls called on them. Heck MP will be talking about the fouls after the game if that's the case.

I rarely complain about refs. Only time is at NW last year. They sucked. I believe iu got similar treatment. I've never mentioned sickness. Only injury I mentioned was loyers leg and Gillis back, both very real injuries and part of why I wanted lovers minutes to decrease for a month before end of the season. But you are welcome to say I blame everything but Purdue. Go for it.

 

[IUNorth]

A little late for that, and the FDU loss, because it was so glaring, made most people forget about the others for the most part.

Oh that 3 year stretch is timeless at this point. It could be 10 years from now, and unless PU has hung a banner or two, it'd still be savage.

 

[rickster24]

I think “one argument “ is more an expression. Just means a main point.

You sound like a kid who just got caught with his hand in the cookie jar!

 

[Chicago-bound Hoosier]

Players don't automatically get better because they are sophomores. purdoo's starting guards are decent and started off well enough but struggled against athletic guards. They aren't going to get more athletic. You have to prevent the guards from getting the ball in deep to Edey. You do that by pressure on the guards and wings outside the 3 point line. This takes away easy entry passes and the open 3s, Get in their grille and make them put the ball on the floor.

I expected other teams to do what Woody did earlier in the season. It is interesting that we beat them the second time by JHS taking the open shot off the pick and roll instead of the scoring duel in the first game between TJD and Edey. I would imagine purdoo's opponents studied our two games and there are now more games showing how to exploit size with quickness.

Furst is the player we will need to watch.

Furst doesn't get a lot of opp with the ball going through the big canuck, and that's not gonna change next year. Furst would have looked great in an IU uniform this past season...and even more so next year. I was expecting to see more from both Furst and TKR by now. I saw a few games last season and TKR still seems like he's struggling to find his place in the CMP offense....if there even is a place for him. And with Edey, Furst and Gillis all returning, I wouldn't expect his minutes to increase.

This automatic 'big jump as a sophomore' theory is as much myth as it is reality. Furst had some covid issues but still, his frosh-to-soph scoring went from 4ppg to 5.5ppg, his rebounds went up a whopping 1 rpg, and all his shooting numbers (FG, 3pt FG, FT) went down substantially. He didn't suddenly become twice the player he was as a frosh. He was pretty much the same player. (this concerns me about Reneau next year....although if he can stay out of foul trouble, he'll see his minutes/game skyrocket, as should his production).

Morton's pt almost doubled last year (14 min to 25 min)...and his scoring average went up 1 ppg. And all his shooting numbers dropped substantially.

Loyer and Smith aren't growing 5 inches and putting on 50 lbs over the summer. They are nice players but their lack of size gets exploited. Those two are most fortunate that Edey came back; otherwise their weaknesses would be even more exposed next year.

 

[BoilerN]

Furst doesn't get a lot of opp with the ball going through the big canuck, and that's not gonna change next year. Furst would have looked great in an IU uniform this past season...and even more so next year. I was expecting to see more from both Furst and TKR by now. I saw a few games last season and TKR still seems like he's struggling to find his place in the CMP offense....if there even is a place for him. And with Edey, Furst and Gillis all returning, I wouldn't expect his minutes to increase.

This automatic 'big jump as a sophomore' theory is as much myth as it is reality. Furst had some covid issues but still, his frosh-to-soph scoring went from 4ppg to 5.5ppg, his rebounds went up a whopping 1 rpg, and all his shooting numbers (FG, 3pt FG, FT) went down substantially. He didn't suddenly become twice the player he was as a frosh. He was pretty much the same player. (this concerns me about Reneau next year....although if he can stay out of foul trouble, he'll see his minutes/game skyrocket, as should his production).

Morton's pt almost doubled last year (14 min to 25 min)...and his scoring average went up 1 ppg. And all his shooting numbers dropped substantially.

Loyer and Smith aren't growing 5 inches and putting on 50 lbs over the summer. They are nice players but their lack of size gets exploited. Those two are most fortunate that Edey came back; otherwise their weaknesses would be even more exposed next year.

I wouldn't be shocked if TKR starts. Painter has already talked on his usage and major increase on minutes coming. He has dropped some weight to play the 4. Additionally, Painter has talked about using Edey in various was to open the paint for those two some more. He's admitted he didn't do enough of either last year.

I think Loyer said he's put on about 10 pounds lifting and hopes to put another 5-10 on before the season. He needs it for sure. I'd guess Smith puts a little more weight on as well. Strength. I'd assume Morton plays less because, like you said....

 

[abraxis]

BN,
We will all get to see an early indication of how athletic PU is on Dec 9th. PU vs Bama in Toronto.
B10 plodders vs SEC athletes. Interesting match up.

Oh, I get it…Edey’s going back home. PU already has one foreign tour lined up. I bet Painter will be making it a recruiting junket, too.

 

[BoilerN]

Oh, I get it…Edey’s going back home. PU already has one foreign tour lined up. I bet Painter will be making it a recruiting junket, too.

Are you referring to the overseas summer trip edey won't be a part of due to playing for the Canadian national team? Or you referring to the game in Canada?

 

[arcb102000]

Color me skeptical about Colvin. He may very well turn out to be the second coming of Jaden Ivey, and he is certainly athletic. But if he is what people say he is, why has he not been more impactful for his high school team? They had a losing record his four years there. At a 2A school, playing mostly 2A competition. Something doesn't add up. Great players, even if they're surrounded by complete stiffs, should be able to elevate a small school against small school competition. And, should certainly put up more points than he did.

You do realize that Colvin made the USA under 19 national team? In order to do so he beat out some pretty good players. That should say something pretty good about him.

 

[GThomas]

We have talent but will need time to gel. I say IU finishes 3rd again 20-23 wins..

Assuming Ware and MM are as advertised, IU should be good. That said, their ceiling could depend a great deal on production from the 2. In today's college basketball, a team needs a 2 who can shoot and score. Yes, Galloway's percentage was excellent last season, but he only made 30 3FG and averaged less than 7 ppg. If he can increase his volume while still shooting a solid percentage--and Gunn and/or the freshmen contribute--IU could be VERY good.

I'm excited about next season, but perimeter scoring, most notably 3FG volume, is my greatest concern. Finishing 340th or whatever in 3FGs made is not a recipe for the highest level of success.

Hopefully, that concern proves to be unfounded.

 

[BoilerN]

Assuming Ware and MM are as advertised, IU should be good. That said, their ceiling could depend a great deal on production from the 2. In today's college basketball, a team needs a 2 who can shoot and score. Yes, Galloway's percentage was excellent last season, but he only made 30 3FG and averaged less than 7 ppg. If he can increase his volume while still shooting a solid percentage--and Gunn and/or the freshmen contribute--IU could be VERY good.

I'm excited about next season, but perimeter scoring, most notably 3FG volume, is my greatest concern. Finishing 340th or whatever in 3FGs made is not a recipe for the highest level of success.

Hopefully, that concern proves to be unfounded.

Not trying to challenge as I honestly don't know. Why is it expected that Ware is going to be really good? He wasn't exactly good last year was he?

 

[IUNorth]

Not trying to challenge as I honestly don't know. Why is it expected that Ware is going to be really good? He wasn't exactly good last year was he?

He averaged 7 and 4 in about 15 minutes of playing time.

Similar numbers to Edey as a frosh.

And Ware can play inside/out, and can defend. He obviously has things he needs to improve, as he did sit behind an older big last year. But with his lofty rankings and expectations out of HS, his production at Oregon in the minutes he did get, his versatility...its safe to assume he'll be a good player for us.

Zero improvement at all...just more minutes...and he'll be a 10 and 6 guy, that's versatile defender.

Even modest improvements and we'll likely see a 12 and 8 type guy, or better. And if he's able to help protect the rim, and continues to be versatile enough to guard the perimeter some as well...he should soften the blow, on that side of the ball, of losing TJD.

 

[Victorbmyboy]

Ha! That's what you think! Even if they were to get outclassed athletically and lose by 20, BN and his ilk will be back here the next day talking about how PU's athletes were sick, injured or got unfair fouls called on them. Heck MP will be talking about the fouls after the game if that's the case.

The only problem is Bama doesn’t play the style that most exploits Edeys weakness. It’s 3 ball or drives. No mid game at all. To beat Purdue you beat them to open spots. Lots of mid range jumpers are open.

 

[rsomm]

He averaged 7 and 4 in about 15 minutes of playing time.

Similar numbers to Edey as a frosh.

And Ware can play inside/out, and can defend. He obviously has things he needs to improve, as he did sit behind an older big last year. But with his lofty rankings and expectations out of HS, his production at Oregon in the minutes he did get, his versatility...its safe to assume he'll be a good player for us.

Zero improvement at all...just more minutes...and he'll be a 10 and 6 guy, that's versatile defender.

Even modest improvements and we'll likely see a 12 and 8 type guy, or better. And if he's able to help protect the rim, and continues to be versatile enough to guard the perimeter some as well...he should soften the blow, on that side of the ball, of losing TJD.

Edey played on a winning team, Oregon had a lot of talent but didn't produce!

 

[IUNorth]

Edey played on a winning team, Oregon had a lot of talent but didn't produce!

Cool...who was it that year...North Texas?

 

[HoosierJimbo89]

Not trying to challenge as I honestly don't know. Why is it expected that Ware is going to be really good? He wasn't exactly good last year was he?

His high school ranking is higher than anybody Mid-Major Matt has ever landed. If he was going to PU, you would be hailing him as the next Michael Jordan. You are already hailing Colvin as the messiah, and he couldn't beat 2A kids.

 

[kkott]

Furst is the player we will need to watch.

Why? Because we don't have Logan Dunscomb anymore to neutralize him? Furst is a good player, but not really a guy that should scare us, especially with all the post players we got. We'll be playing 2 bigs most of the time and I think he will be neutralized. They're going to go to Edey early and often and both Smith and Loyer will get their shots, so at best I think Furst is usually going to be the 4th option on the floor generally.

 

[Shuski]

Well I think my thread has generated some decent discussion about the Big Ten. I will look forward to making additional comments and thoughts once rosters are finalized. Heck there may be more big ten departures and arrivals by August.

 

[Shuski]

Hey Boiler it will be interesting to see how both teams develop. We both hope for a sweep but probably neither gets that in 2023-24 season. I definitely think our team will be more athletic than PU but that does not win ball games. Painter is a good coach and we have more pieces to add in than PU. I do think we will be a lot better in January than we are in November and hopefully even better in March.

 

[BoilerN]

His high school ranking is higher than anybody Mid-Major Matt has ever landed. If he was going to PU, you would be hailing him as the next Michael Jordan. You are already hailing Colvin as the messiah, and he couldn't beat 2A kids.

Please show me where I have hailed Colvin as the messiah. You are more likely to find me saying I don't like to rely on freshman. Idc about high school rankings. I care that they can play. I asked a simple question about Ware to learn more about him and instead of answer, you claim something I've never said. But ok

 

[BoilerN]

Hey Boiler it will be interesting to see how both teams develop. We both hope for a sweep but probably neither gets that in 2023-24 season. I definitely think our team will be more athletic than PU but that does not win ball games. Painter is a good coach and we have more pieces to add in than PU. I do think we will be a lot better in January than we are in November and hopefully even better in March.

I agree. I think iu could look pretty rough early on due to the changes

 

[MonvalleyJ]

Players don't automatically get better because they are sophomores. purdoo's starting guards are decent and started off well enough but struggled against athletic guards. They aren't going to get more athletic. You have to prevent the guards from getting the ball in deep to Edey. You do that by pressure on the guards and wings outside the 3 point line. This takes away easy entry passes and the open 3s, Get in their grille and make them put the ball on the floor.

I expected other teams to do what Woody did earlier in the season. It is interesting that we beat them the second time by JHS taking the open shot off the pick and roll instead of the scoring duel in the first game between TJD and Edey. I would imagine purdoo's opponents studied our two games and there are now more games showing how to exploit size with quickness.

Furst is the player we will need to watch.

Guys usually don't get quicker but they get stronger and smarter. In no way are those guys first round NBA picks like JHS but they will get better and be really good college guys. Hell, they started every game as true freshman and won the Big10. Also, they both hit a freshman wall and struggled with their shot the last quarter of the season. That is more than likely not going to happen next year. On average, Purdue shooters improve their 3point percentage by 7% from their freshman to sophomore seasons (under painter). That puts both around 40%. My point is that both guys should perform to the point where defenders won't sag off them.

 

[Coach Geez]

You do realize that Colvin made the USA under 19 national team? In order to do so he beat out some pretty good players. That should say something pretty good about him.

Helps when your college head coach is the chairman and head of the selection committee of the Junior USA team. Caleb Furst made the team two years ago for crying out load.

 

[Coach Geez]

Not trying to challenge as I honestly don't know. Why is it expected that Ware is going to be really good? He wasn't exactly good last year was he?

Played really well for the U18 team last summer and was their best player along with Cam Whitmore.

Oregon was never a fit for Ware. He followed an assistant to Oregon who left to take the Nebraska-Omaha job before he ever got to campus. He was behind two other 5* who were upperclassmen. Ware played well whe he got extended minutes and his best stretch of basketball came during the Pk85 Tournament (MSU/UConn/Nova) where he averaged 16 and 7 playing over 30 minutes a game.

 

[Coach Geez]

As for Ware, his high school ranking means nothing. If he lived up to that ranking, he'd be at the NBA draft tonight. Instead, he lost his job to a guy that came to Oregon as a walk-on due to having a bad motor. The check IU wrote was bigger than the one Oregon was going to write. That's why he's at IU.

You don't know what you're talking about. He played behind N'Faly Dante and Nathan Bittle who were both 5*, top 25 recruits as well as upperclassmen.

 

[T.M.P.]

My point is that both guys should perform to the point where defenders won't sag off them.

No one sagged off them last year and offense wasn't really an issue for either. Both were competent enough. Defense and lack of quickness was the main flaw in both their games. If they couldn't funnel their player into Edey or other help, they had nothing.

 

[T.M.P.]

You don't know what you're talking about. He played behind N'Faly Dante and Nathan Bittle who were both 5*, top 25 recruits as well as upperclassmen.

Yup ...and generally when he came off the bench played the 4 spot when teamed with either mentioned above, and played 5 when paired with Quincy Guerrier

 

[HoosierJimbo89]

Cool...who was it that year...North Texas?

I'm Fairleigh sure it was.

 

[BoilerN]

I'm Fairleigh sure it was.

Fairleigh similar to how you said put words in my mouth about Colvin.

 

[HoosierJimbo89]

Fairleigh similar to how you said put words in my mouth about Colvin.

Swapping Colvin for Newman is the only difference about PU's team this year. The question is, do you really think you are going to see something different from PU this year? How do you even get a trifle excited about Painter at this point? FDU and the other mid-major losses have made PU a national joke.

I'm going to watch 60 or so players other than Edey get drafted tonight, including 2 IU players in the first round.

 

[arcb102000]

Helps when your college head coach is the chairman and head of the selection committee of the Junior USA team. Caleb Furst made the team two years ago for crying out load.

You have no idea as to whether Painter had any influence on the Colvin decision by the committee. I note that Shane Battier is on the committee as well. Does that mean that if a Duke recruit makes the team it is undeserved or tainted because Battier is on the committee?

The coaches involved in this team are respected in their profession. They want to win the tournament. I sincerely doubt that they would allow a player that they felt was undeserving to be placed on the team. If that were to be the case, a resignation because of principle is required of them. That has not happened.

 

[BoilerN]

Swapping Colvin for Newman is the only difference about PU's team this year. The question is, do you really think you are going to see something different from PU this year? How do you even get a trifle excited about Painter at this point? FDU and the other mid-major losses have made PU a national joke.

I'm going to watch 60 or so players other than Edey get drafted tonight, including 2 IU players in the first round.

Adding Colvin, a transfer PG, and Heide. You seem to keep forgetting the last two. I'm looking forward to you showing me where I said Colvin was going to be great. 2 for 2 on avoiding showing me

 

[HoosierJimbo89]

You have no idea as to whether Painter had any influence on the Colvin decision by the committee. I note that Shane Battier is on the committee as well. Does that mean that if a Duke recruit makes the team it is undeserved or tainted because Battier is on the committee?

The coaches involved in this team are respected in their profession. They want to win the tournament. I sincerely doubt that they would allow a player that they felt was undeserving to be placed on the team. If that were to be the case, a resignation because of principle is required of them. That has not happened.

Bob Knight kept Steve Alford on the 1984 Olympic team over Charles Barkley, Karl Malone, John Stockton, Chuck Person, and a bunch of other guys that played in the NBA. Christian Laettner made the Dream Team, Coach K was an assistant.