Abortion in Florida
- Thread starter larsIU
- Start date
Just because it isn't in your propaganda feed doesn't make it not true
Liberals are definitely doing their part by encouraging children to choose lifestyles in which reproduction is impossible. That’s one way to reduce unwanted pregnancies…
Maybe Biden can "order" some forced sterilizations through OSHA and HHS. Prevention is the key!
@Bowlmania your boy is using the 'P' word. I know how you hate that, so just though I'd point it out so you can scold your soul mate.
Well, I do agree with him that males have to start taking some responsibility.
And women - girls - have to stop banging irresponsible morons.
Isn't abortion primarily a moral issue ?
For example... condoms, diaphragms, the rhythm method and even the withdrawal method were forbidden by the Catholic Church. Only abstinence was permissible to prevent conception. Also many in America consider abortion to be akin to killing a baby.
What we often fail to mention in discussing abortion are the costs involved in giving birth along with the expense of raising children which some have calculated to being well over $14,000. annually per child. A working mother can help the burden, but then must face the big expense of day care.
Some couples will simply decide they cannot afford even one child, much less facing the financial responsibility of raising a large family.
Not having children or limiting the number brings up another issue. The issue being the potential problems of low fertility to society as discussed in this article, The article in part states the following,
What we do know, however, is that the differing perspectives on this issue leave us with two broad approaches to handling the challenges of low fertility. We can encourage people to have more children by enacting policies that make parenting more attainable. Or we can invest more in the people we’ve already got — both children and their parents — so everyone becomes a productive and capable adult. The good news is that many of the policies that help with the latter approach can also help with the former: Policies that support mothers in the workplace and ensure that all children have access to a good upbringing and education — for example, paid parental leave, child allowances and expanding access to high-quality child care, early-childhood education and higher education — also ease the financial strain of parenting. So although we don’t know exactly how far the fertility rate can fall before it becomes a problem, the solutions may be more straightforward than we think.
For example... condoms, diaphragms, the rhythm method and even the withdrawal method were forbidden by the Catholic Church. Only abstinence was permissible to prevent conception. Also many in America consider abortion to be akin to killing a baby.
What we often fail to mention in discussing abortion are the costs involved in giving birth along with the expense of raising children which some have calculated to being well over $14,000. annually per child. A working mother can help the burden, but then must face the big expense of day care.
Some couples will simply decide they cannot afford even one child, much less facing the financial responsibility of raising a large family.
Not having children or limiting the number brings up another issue. The issue being the potential problems of low fertility to society as discussed in this article, The article in part states the following,
What we do know, however, is that the differing perspectives on this issue leave us with two broad approaches to handling the challenges of low fertility. We can encourage people to have more children by enacting policies that make parenting more attainable. Or we can invest more in the people we’ve already got — both children and their parents — so everyone becomes a productive and capable adult. The good news is that many of the policies that help with the latter approach can also help with the former: Policies that support mothers in the workplace and ensure that all children have access to a good upbringing and education — for example, paid parental leave, child allowances and expanding access to high-quality child care, early-childhood education and higher education — also ease the financial strain of parenting. So although we don’t know exactly how far the fertility rate can fall before it becomes a problem, the solutions may be more straightforward than we think.
Some of the scariest words I ever heard were "I hope you know when to take that thing out".
Be careful what you wish for, danc. If that were the case, you'd be forever celibate.
Maybe for your 55 year old divorced buddies who married a 38 year old and are trying to have another kid.
Well, look at the one who quotes scripture.Be careful what you wish for, danc. If that were the case, you'd be forever celibate.
Don't be so sensitive, danc. And the scriptures are for everyone - - even you!
Happy Easter!
A couple months ago my college friends go together. One friend has always been a fundamentalist conservative Republican. In our 3am political discussion, he said something that struck me. He is, and always has been, pro-life.
He said that almost no one sets out to have an abortion, they don't go get pregnant because they want to have an abortion. These are people going through very difficult times, as everyone does. No one leads a life of only sunshine and puppies. They face a very tough decision. He believes one choice is worst than other choices, but that doesn't make any of this easy and we shouldn't pretend it is easy.
In the last few years he went through some tough things. I think that softened, him not an abortion, but on how life can deal one a crappy hand.
Maybe 8n the first few weeks the father was on board, then disappears. Or gets sent to prison. Maybe one's family kicks them out over being pregnant. All sorts of things can, and DO, happen. There isn't likely to be a one set fits all rule of, "you had a week, now you are outta luck" rules.
And I think we all lost site of his point on more than abortion. Almost all of us lead lives of quiet desperation. Bad things happen, we react as best we can. We have pain and sorrow. We lose track of that.
He said that almost no one sets out to have an abortion, they don't go get pregnant because they want to have an abortion. These are people going through very difficult times, as everyone does. No one leads a life of only sunshine and puppies. They face a very tough decision. He believes one choice is worst than other choices, but that doesn't make any of this easy and we shouldn't pretend it is easy.
In the last few years he went through some tough things. I think that softened, him not an abortion, but on how life can deal one a crappy hand.
Maybe 8n the first few weeks the father was on board, then disappears. Or gets sent to prison. Maybe one's family kicks them out over being pregnant. All sorts of things can, and DO, happen. There isn't likely to be a one set fits all rule of, "you had a week, now you are outta luck" rules.
And I think we all lost site of his point on more than abortion. Almost all of us lead lives of quiet desperation. Bad things happen, we react as best we can. We have pain and sorrow. We lose track of that.
Why all the wailing and gnashing of teeth over the 15 weeks?
That's plenty of time to decide if you want an abortion. Don't act like it's an outright ban.
Let us have a 15 week waiting period on all gun purchases, it isn't an outright ban. Just 15 weeks
The activists behind these laws believe abortion is murder, because a fetus is a person. The fetus doesn't become less of a person because the mother was raped.DeSantis (R-newly minted social warrior) just signed into law a bill which would make abortions post 15 weeks illegal with no exemption for rape or incest (or human trafficking).
So, if a young female is raped by her uncle and suffers significant emotional trauma such that she doesn’t tell anyone (which happens all the time) or doesn’t believe she’s pregnant (repressive behavior) until after week 15, she’s going to be forced to carry that baby to term?
There are exemptions for medical emergency of course.
Is this the battleground the Republicans want? They’re winning just about every other issue. They’ll get beat if they make abortion THE issue.
Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis signs a bill banning abortions after 15 weeks
Florida is the latest state to pass legislation that further restricts access to abortion. The new law bans abortions after 15 weeks, but doesn't have exceptions for rape, incest or human trafficking.www.npr.org
Your response is disappointing, danc.
"Judge not, lest ye be judged." Matthew 7:1
Happy Easter!
So are Republicans led around by the edges of their party like they accuse the Dems? This is red meat pandering. I don’t even think DeSantis believes in this bill.
By the way @mcmurtry66 I honestly do not know if 15 weeks is good or bad. I have no special knowledge on the subject. But if we go back to ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine, I didn't believe they should be touted in place of vaccine but often said if an individual and their doctor want to take them, that is up to them.
Abortion is somewhat the same. I don't believe people should go out and recruit people to have abortions but if a person chooses that route with a medical provider I am not sure I want the state saying "no". Medical decisions are individual, that would even include doctor assisted suicide.
Maybe 15 weeks are enough. Maybe. But has anyone here presented the number of abortions by week to know what we are talking about?
Abortion is somewhat the same. I don't believe people should go out and recruit people to have abortions but if a person chooses that route with a medical provider I am not sure I want the state saying "no". Medical decisions are individual, that would even include doctor assisted suicide.
Maybe 15 weeks are enough. Maybe. But has anyone here presented the number of abortions by week to know what we are talking about?
I didn't put much time into it but I was trying to see how they arrived at 15 and whether it has a rationale behind it. All I saw in the legislative history I briefly perused was that there were 72,000 abortions in 2020 and 4,200 occurred after 13 weeks.
I'm not anti abortion. All I wanted to highlight was how easy it is (imo) to prevent pregnancy pre and post. I don't expect everyone to be able to manage their excretions with the timing and exactitude that I've been able to master, but they have myriad other preventative options.
Like all things I trust this is political pandering and posturing to reduce the weeks. Meaningful imo is largely all or nothing. Allow it or don't.
On this particular issue, the party is driven by the extreme activists, yes. It's not the kind of issue that begs for moderation or compromise.
Immediate comments without reading all the responses yet:DeSantis (R-newly minted social warrior) just signed into law a bill which would make abortions post 15 weeks illegal with no exemption for rape or incest (or human trafficking).
So, if a young female is raped by her uncle and suffers significant emotional trauma such that she doesn’t tell anyone (which happens all the time) or doesn’t believe she’s pregnant (repressive behavior) until after week 15, she’s going to be forced to carry that baby to term?
There are exemptions for medical emergency of course.
Is this the battleground the Republicans want? They’re winning just about every other issue. They’ll get beat if they make abortion THE issue.
Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis signs a bill banning abortions after 15 weeks
Florida is the latest state to pass legislation that further restricts access to abortion. The new law bans abortions after 15 weeks, but doesn't have exceptions for rape, incest or human trafficking.
Surely, DeSantis could have earned sensible politician points IF at the same time he signed this law he had required, in exchange, additional legislation requiring:
(1) rapists to suffer enhanced prison sentences, enhanced fines and enhanced financial liability for their victims' damages (which they can no longer avoid by an abortion) ;
(2) enhanced public benefits to cover the tort-type damages suffered by victims of rape and incest that prove uncollectible from impecunious rapists and incest committers;
(3) enhanced benefits to cover non-tort medical expenses suffered by victims of rape and incest that prove non-collectible from impecunious rapists and incest committers due to lack of funds.
The bill signed by DeSantis puts absolutely all of the financial burden on the woman/mother to pay for all the expenses.
Please quote the Bible language saying you are right.
There are plenty of scriptures proving how mean people were toward others, particularly women, Hard to believe those mean people in Bible days ever opposed abortions. There's no reason to believe Bible people even knew a woman was pregnant at 15 weeks,
I'd love to see stats on the actual numbers of pregnant, white Protestant high school girls with Moral Majority-style parents who already tiptoe away routinely to have abortions arranged by their parents.
DeSantis says this law is important because "life is precious" but Florida doesn't really treat the child of an unwed mother as precious. This law doesn't change that.
If you don't do that, you may well pay (one way or another) for someone else's poorly educated, poorly raised, unemployed criminal for the nect 30-40-50 years.
The costs of an unwanted pregnancy should be prevented or compensated because they are far more extensive than the costs of a burglarized television.
This what? Condoms and plan b are free. Medical care is nothing. It's Medicaid. You want Republicans to raise the kid too? Wtf.
Right about what...John leaped in his mothers womb when he heard Mary's salutation.
Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee. IDK what you are looking for here.
DANC, good question.
Charity or helping the less fortunate is a value shared by many religions including those religions which could influence a majority of Americans. The decision for these religious folks, however, is whether the help should come from private or government sources, or a combination of both.
Some of us might argue the government helping these folks through taxes isn't preferable to private donations through charities. Believe it or not, we could also have those who don't believe in either government help or donating to private charities.
DANC, when you say, "I shouldn't have to pay to support someone else's kid" I presume you are saying through an agency which you don't feel comfortable with as opposed to saying you wouldn't help someone in need of help.
You are quoting a tiny portion of the book of Jeremiah, describing the Lord's selection of Jeremiah to be a prophet. That's all it does.
Bible Gateway passage: Jeremiah 1 - King James Version
The words of Jeremiah the son of Hilkiah, of the priests that were in Anathoth in the land of Benjamin: To whom the word of the LORD came in the days of Josiah the son of Amon king of Judah, in the thirteenth year of his reign. It came also in the days of Jehoiakim the son of Josiah king of...
If you are really pro-life then you also have to be anti-death penalty and anti- a lot of other things the religious right totally ignores today. The Bible doesn't excuse them for their decision to emphasize this one political issue at the expense of the other human issues they don't care about.
As you have pointed out before, those who would allow for exceptions for rape, incest, or health of the mother (excluding imminent danger of death or severe disability) are inconsistent.
If one believes that life begins at conception, and that abortion is murder, then any termination for any reason is murder, regardless of the circumstances surrounding the conception.
This is what happens when morality based, absolutist thinking makes its way into legislation.
Nonsense. It doesn't have to be that black and white. There's a balance of interests. Personally I'm fine with the current state of the law
Similar threads
