ADVERTISEMENT

A couch coach's take on our current issues

IUNorth

Hall of Famer
Oct 25, 2002
12,312
9,082
113
For months and months, I've been harping on our main problems being that our offense is bad, and that we aren't capable of stopping good opposing wings. I now think its much more widespread and foundational than that. I think the individual talents that X provided, that a fully healthy TJD provided, that Race provided, masked some of the foundational issues in our program. And now that a couple of those guys are out completely, and TJD is now a little less explosive, the true issues are becoming more clear.

I think Woodson is coaching from a reactive position right now, instead of establishing things in his program that will allow his teams to dictate, instead of react.

Defensively...we're now scrambling and running zones, and presses. Gone are the high ball pressure man to man days we've seen more than we haven't since he arrived. That tells me that it was more of a product of player personnel, and gameday talking points, than it was a foundational thing that he drilled into his players early and often. So we're reacting to our situation and to our opponents, instead of having something galvanizing to rely on. I played college ball nearly 30 years ago...and to this day, I still remember, hear, feel the words "no middle" when I watch basketball games at any level. Watching my son play HS ball, is actually uncomfortable at times, because their program emphasizes funneling people middle, so they put their low legs up when defending on the wing. So almost every time my son is defending someone on the wing, I have the gut reaction that he's doing it wrong. Every single practice, every workout, every game of my college career, not getting beat middle was demanded. We did shell drills, 1 on 1 and 2 on 2 checkout drills, we ran for it, we got kicked out of practices for it, we were benched because of it. As a result, we rarely ever got beat middle. We dictated where the other teams were able to run their offense. And we were nearly always ranked in the top 10 percent nationally in most defensive stats. I see absolutely zero tenets in IU's defensive efforts that show any "no middle" type foundational things being taught. And obviously it doesn't have to be "no middle". My sons team is actually pretty solid defensively. They have more help in the middle of the court, they're good at packing the help lines and forcing other teams into turnovers and shooting from the perimeter. Syracuse famously runs a 2-3 zone. Bad 2-3 zones, that are thrown out there by coaches that are REACTING to other teams, are about the worst defense you can possibly run. You can't rebound out of them well, you give up tons of open looks, etc... But when you recruit to it, practice it every day, demand that its played correctly...well we've all seen what it can do. It ends up dictating how the other team plays offense.

Offensively...I just can't stomach our main offense being what we inevitably end up running as games come down the stretch. We've seen different things from game to game, I often reference the Nebraska game, as an example. We even see dramatic differences within games. Again...this leads me to think we don't have a set offense, or set groups of plays that Woody works on, relentlessly, every single day. Referencing my college days again, I can still vividly remember our 3 out/2 in, high low oriented offense. We had the base offense, and we had a series of odd and even numbered plays that we'd run. I could diagram all of them still to this day. And we were all so versed in them, that most of us knew what versions of the offense we were going to run before our coach even called anything, based off how the game was going. My point from the references to my college days, obviously, is not to compare myself to IU players. In fact, we were about as far from that as a team could get. Our tallest starter was 6'5, and he was a wing. Our post players were both 6'3. Yet we won over 60% of our games, basically being smaller, and often times less athletic, at most positions. We dictated how the game was going to be played. As evidenced by losing nearly 40% of the time, it didn't always equal a win. But against the teams that were far bigger and just better, we rarely ever got blown out, and beat a good amount of them on a regular basis. And we rarely, if ever, lost to teams that were similar to us size/talent wise.

I don't think Woody is doing anything like this at IU. I think really good programs, that are solid year in and year out, are doing these sorts of things. And almost invariably, it shows up as games go on. Most teams end up dictating offensively and defensively to us how the game is going to be played. And our talent isn't elite enough to overcome it. So while our talent level allows for flashes of brilliant play, basically without fail, we end up regressing back. Even in the Xavier and UNC games, we didn't put either of those teams away, despite playing really well for a good chunk of those games. And those are our two shining examples of what we can be, when playing our "best". Outside those games, are there ANY games during Woody's tenure that we were good start to finish?

He's not teaching them anything they can rely on when times get tough. And it shows. And it sucks, because we got some tough times ahead.
 
For months and months, I've been harping on our main problems being that our offense is bad, and that we aren't capable of stopping good opposing wings. I now think its much more widespread and foundational than that. I think the individual talents that X provided, that a fully healthy TJD provided, that Race provided, masked some of the foundational issues in our program. And now that a couple of those guys are out completely, and TJD is now a little less explosive, the true issues are becoming more clear.

I think Woodson is coaching from a reactive position right now, instead of establishing things in his program that will allow his teams to dictate, instead of react.

Defensively...we're now scrambling and running zones, and presses. Gone are the high ball pressure man to man days we've seen more than we haven't since he arrived. That tells me that it was more of a product of player personnel, and gameday talking points, than it was a foundational thing that he drilled into his players early and often. So we're reacting to our situation and to our opponents, instead of having something galvanizing to rely on. I played college ball nearly 30 years ago...and to this day, I still remember, hear, feel the words "no middle" when I watch basketball games at any level. Watching my son play HS ball, is actually uncomfortable at times, because their program emphasizes funneling people middle, so they put their low legs up when defending on the wing. So almost every time my son is defending someone on the wing, I have the gut reaction that he's doing it wrong. Every single practice, every workout, every game of my college career, not getting beat middle was demanded. We did shell drills, 1 on 1 and 2 on 2 checkout drills, we ran for it, we got kicked out of practices for it, we were benched because of it. As a result, we rarely ever got beat middle. We dictated where the other teams were able to run their offense. And we were nearly always ranked in the top 10 percent nationally in most defensive stats. I see absolutely zero tenets in IU's defensive efforts that show any "no middle" type foundational things being taught. And obviously it doesn't have to be "no middle". My sons team is actually pretty solid defensively. They have more help in the middle of the court, they're good at packing the help lines and forcing other teams into turnovers and shooting from the perimeter. Syracuse famously runs a 2-3 zone. Bad 2-3 zones, that are thrown out there by coaches that are REACTING to other teams, are about the worst defense you can possibly run. You can't rebound out of them well, you give up tons of open looks, etc... But when you recruit to it, practice it every day, demand that its played correctly...well we've all seen what it can do. It ends up dictating how the other team plays offense.

Offensively...I just can't stomach our main offense being what we inevitably end up running as games come down the stretch. We've seen different things from game to game, I often reference the Nebraska game, as an example. We even see dramatic differences within games. Again...this leads me to think we don't have a set offense, or set groups of plays that Woody works on, relentlessly, every single day. Referencing my college days again, I can still vividly remember our 3 out/2 in, high low oriented offense. We had the base offense, and we had a series of odd and even numbered plays that we'd run. I could diagram all of them still to this day. And we were all so versed in them, that most of us knew what versions of the offense we were going to run before our coach even called anything, based off how the game was going. My point from the references to my college days, obviously, is not to compare myself to IU players. In fact, we were about as far from that as a team could get. Our tallest starter was 6'5, and he was a wing. Our post players were both 6'3. Yet we won over 60% of our games, basically being smaller, and often times less athletic, at most positions. We dictated how the game was going to be played. As evidenced by losing nearly 40% of the time, it didn't always equal a win. But against the teams that were far bigger and just better, we rarely ever got blown out, and beat a good amount of them on a regular basis. And we rarely, if ever, lost to teams that were similar to us size/talent wise.

I don't think Woody is doing anything like this at IU. I think really good programs, that are solid year in and year out, are doing these sorts of things. And almost invariably, it shows up as games go on. Most teams end up dictating offensively and defensively to us how the game is going to be played. And our talent isn't elite enough to overcome it. So while our talent level allows for flashes of brilliant play, basically without fail, we end up regressing back. Even in the Xavier and UNC games, we didn't put either of those teams away, despite playing really well for a good chunk of those games. And those are our two shining examples of what we can be, when playing our "best". Outside those games, are there ANY games during Woody's tenure that we were good start to finish?

He's not teaching them anything they can rely on when times get tough. And it shows. And it sucks, because we got some tough times ahead.
I think the individual talents that X provided, that a fully healthy TJD provided, that Race provided, masked some of the foundational issues in our program. And now that a couple of those guys are out completely, and TJD is now a little less explosive, the true issues are becoming more clear.

I believe to have success with an NBA offense in college you need superior talent and superior athletes. But even Penny has had very high level talent and still not very good success. Like you said we now see the true issues and without these guys next year it will only get worse. College is not the NBA but we have an NBA coach. It will likely not end well. Without X, TJD, and JHS next year there will be nobody who can create on their own which is basically what these guys all do.
 
We've had trouble putting teams away for years, before CMW started. Many, many yrs ago, if IU was up 20 in the first half, I'd let the pressure out of my head and casually watch the rest of the game for fun. For the past 5+ yrs, a huge first half IU lead is almost always a sign of imminent doom. I don't know of any P5 program who chokes away huge leads with more efficiency than we do. Baffling.

If this season tanks, and looks like we're just about there, it will likely be blamed on key injuries. Fair? Maybe so, maybe not so much. But next year isn't looking very good right now, even with a healthy team.
 
Last edited:
We've had trouble putting teams away for years, before CMW started. many many yrs ago, if IU was up 20 in the first half, I'd let the pressure out of my head and casually watch the rest of the game for fun. For at least 5+ yrs, a huge first half IU lead is almost an imminent sign of doom. I don't know of any P5 program who chokes away huge leads with more efficiency than we do. Baffling.

If this season tanks, and looks like we're just about there, it will likely be blamed on key injuries. Fair? Maybe so, maybe not so much. But next year isn't looking very good right now, even with a healthy team.
I think the injury excuse gives Woodson a massive pass on his poor coaching. No we cannot win the big ten without those two but there is more than enough talent so still go 10-10 in the conference. The bigger issues is we we just played the easier part of our schedule and are 1-3. I mean look at the next 8 games I see maybe 3 wins max but most likely 2 wins which would put us at 3-8. By the time X and Race come back we will be in too big of a hole to make the dance imo.

ed, Jan 11@Penn State
Sat, Jan 14vs14 Wisconsin
Thu, Jan 19@Illinois
Sun, Jan 22vsMichigan State
Wed, Jan 25@Minnesota
Sat, Jan 28vs24 Ohio State
Tue, Jan 31@Maryland
Sat, Feb 4vs1 Purdue
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mr.IU
For months and months, I've been harping on our main problems being that our offense is bad, and that we aren't capable of stopping good opposing wings. I now think its much more widespread and foundational than that. I think the individual talents that X provided, that a fully healthy TJD provided, that Race provided, masked some of the foundational issues in our program. And now that a couple of those guys are out completely, and TJD is now a little less explosive, the true issues are becoming more clear.

I think Woodson is coaching from a reactive position right now, instead of establishing things in his program that will allow his teams to dictate, instead of react.

Defensively...we're now scrambling and running zones, and presses. Gone are the high ball pressure man to man days we've seen more than we haven't since he arrived. That tells me that it was more of a product of player personnel, and gameday talking points, than it was a foundational thing that he drilled into his players early and often. So we're reacting to our situation and to our opponents, instead of having something galvanizing to rely on. I played college ball nearly 30 years ago...and to this day, I still remember, hear, feel the words "no middle" when I watch basketball games at any level. Watching my son play HS ball, is actually uncomfortable at times, because their program emphasizes funneling people middle, so they put their low legs up when defending on the wing. So almost every time my son is defending someone on the wing, I have the gut reaction that he's doing it wrong. Every single practice, every workout, every game of my college career, not getting beat middle was demanded. We did shell drills, 1 on 1 and 2 on 2 checkout drills, we ran for it, we got kicked out of practices for it, we were benched because of it. As a result, we rarely ever got beat middle. We dictated where the other teams were able to run their offense. And we were nearly always ranked in the top 10 percent nationally in most defensive stats. I see absolutely zero tenets in IU's defensive efforts that show any "no middle" type foundational things being taught. And obviously it doesn't have to be "no middle". My sons team is actually pretty solid defensively. They have more help in the middle of the court, they're good at packing the help lines and forcing other teams into turnovers and shooting from the perimeter. Syracuse famously runs a 2-3 zone. Bad 2-3 zones, that are thrown out there by coaches that are REACTING to other teams, are about the worst defense you can possibly run. You can't rebound out of them well, you give up tons of open looks, etc... But when you recruit to it, practice it every day, demand that its played correctly...well we've all seen what it can do. It ends up dictating how the other team plays offense.

Offensively...I just can't stomach our main offense being what we inevitably end up running as games come down the stretch. We've seen different things from game to game, I often reference the Nebraska game, as an example. We even see dramatic differences within games. Again...this leads me to think we don't have a set offense, or set groups of plays that Woody works on, relentlessly, every single day. Referencing my college days again, I can still vividly remember our 3 out/2 in, high low oriented offense. We had the base offense, and we had a series of odd and even numbered plays that we'd run. I could diagram all of them still to this day. And we were all so versed in them, that most of us knew what versions of the offense we were going to run before our coach even called anything, based off how the game was going. My point from the references to my college days, obviously, is not to compare myself to IU players. In fact, we were about as far from that as a team could get. Our tallest starter was 6'5, and he was a wing. Our post players were both 6'3. Yet we won over 60% of our games, basically being smaller, and often times less athletic, at most positions. We dictated how the game was going to be played. As evidenced by losing nearly 40% of the time, it didn't always equal a win. But against the teams that were far bigger and just better, we rarely ever got blown out, and beat a good amount of them on a regular basis. And we rarely, if ever, lost to teams that were similar to us size/talent wise.

I don't think Woody is doing anything like this at IU. I think really good programs, that are solid year in and year out, are doing these sorts of things. And almost invariably, it shows up as games go on. Most teams end up dictating offensively and defensively to us how the game is going to be played. And our talent isn't elite enough to overcome it. So while our talent level allows for flashes of brilliant play, basically without fail, we end up regressing back. Even in the Xavier and UNC games, we didn't put either of those teams away, despite playing really well for a good chunk of those games. And those are our two shining examples of what we can be, when playing our "best". Outside those games, are there ANY games during Woody's tenure that we were good start to finish?

He's not teaching them anything they can rely on when times get tough. And it shows. And it sucks, because we got some tough times ahead.
Bunch of individuals and no team.
 
I think the injury excuse gives Woodson a massive pass on his poor coaching. No we cannot win the big ten without those two but there is more than enough talent so still go 10-10 in the conference. The bigger issues is we we just played the easier part of our schedule and are 1-3. I mean look at the next 8 games I see maybe 3 wins max but most likely 2 wins which would put us at 3-8. By the time X and Race come back we will be in too big of a hole to make the dance imo.

ed, Jan 11@Penn State
Sat, Jan 14vs14 Wisconsin
Thu, Jan 19@Illinois
Sun, Jan 22vsMichigan State
Wed, Jan 25@Minnesota
Sat, Jan 28vs24 Ohio State
Tue, Jan 31@Maryland
Sat, Feb 4vs1 Purdue
as of now, Northwestern's tourney resume is much better than ours. Overall record, conf record, quality wins (they beat ILL and also road wins in Bloomington and E.Lansing). I thought we had a deep team, but the guys needed to fill in the hole for Race, and prevent a hobbled TJD from being needed for 35+min a night, they just aren't ready to fill those holes. So yeah, looking at the schedule over the next month, I see some tough days ahead and we're gonna being talking bubble in mid Feb...something I said I could not stomach again.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: IU FAN IN W. NC
As grim as things seem, only 2 of those 8 games are against teams ahead of us in KenPom . Most of these teams are 50ish to our #22.

Problem is that I cannot remember winning more than 2 in a row in conference play in recent seasons, and 5 game losing streaks seem an annual thing.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BigMobe
as of now, Northwestern's tourney resume is much better than ours. Overall record, conf record, quality wins (they beat ILL and also road wins in Bloomington and E.Lansing). I thought we had a deep team, but the guys needed to fill in the hole for Race, and prevent a hobbled TJD from being need for 35+min a night, they just aren't ready to fill those holes. So yeah, looking at the schedule over the next month, I see some tough days ahead and we're gonna being talking bubble in mid Feb...something I said I could not stomach again.
Remember the talk before the season how we would go 12 players deep. Man how bad can Banks and Ducncomb be right now if they cannot even sniff the floor with Race out. I mean Geronimo is playing over both of them and he is pretty bad.
 
Bunch of individuals and no team.
I was talking to a friend and said if our starters played PU's spot for spot in 1 on 1, I think we'd have the edge at 4 positions (before Race was hurt) and maybe all 5 and I'd guess our guys would beat their's a majority of times. But, as a team, right now, I'd guess PU would beat us 8 out of 10.
 
Remember the talk before the season how we would go 12 players deep. Man how bad can Banks and Ducncomb be right now if they cannot even sniff the floor with Race out. I mean Geronimo is playing over both of them and he is pretty bad.
TJD played 40 minutes yesterday. There’s no need to play Duncomb if that’s the case going forward. There’s never going to be a reason for Logan and TJD to be on the floor together.
 
I was talking to a friend and said if our starters played PU's spot for spot in 1 on 1, I think we'd have the edge at 4 positions (before Race was hurt) and maybe all 5 and I'd guess our guys would beat their's a majority of times. But, as a team, right now, I'd guess PU would beat us 8 out of 10.
Easily
 
Bunch of individuals and no team.
Yes, but I don't think because we fundamentally have selfish players. Rather, it seems like the issues players like JG, Bates, MR are having relate to either not knowing what & how they need to do things, or lack confidence in themselves and whatever system exists. That causes guys like TJD and JHS to try to make plays that aren't there.

I see two major issues that relate entirely to individual effort/focus that would seem to be fairly easy to address apart from systematic concerns. First, the players simply don't work hard enough to stay between their man and the basket.....the most fundamental defensive concept we were introduced to in 3rd grade. Last night, the players put more effort into cutting off drives in the last 5-6 minutes than they had the entire game. As a consequence their overall D improved and they had a puncher's chance to win the game. Second, this team has the greatest # of lazy ass one-handed passes, and passes with bad entry angles, of any team in the Big Ten. Again, these are fundamental principles that aren't being stressed.
 
TJD can’t move. Without him and race rim protecting, it’s completely thrown everything into the abyss. There were times TJD was playing 5 feet off a guy because he knew he had no speed. It’s really crazy he’s scoring at his clip still.
 
TJD played 40 minutes yesterday. There’s no need to play Duncomb if that’s the case going forward. There’s never going to be a reason for Logan and TJD to be on the floor together.
TJD is not fully healthy and we're now having to play him 40 minutes per game, I see a possibility that we'll lose him too at some point.
 
  • Sad
Reactions: bawlmer
TJD is not fully healthy and we're now having to play him 40 minutes per game, I see a possibility that we'll lose him too at some point.
I think IU is going to leave TJD's minute allocation completely up to him. He's going to play every minute he physically can, fouls withstanding.
 
Yes, but I don't think because we fundamentally have selfish players. Rather, it seems like the issues players like JG, Bates, MR are having relate to either not knowing what & how they need to do things, or lack confidence in themselves and whatever system exists. That causes guys like TJD and JHS to try to make plays that aren't there.

I see two major issues that relate entirely to individual effort/focus that would seem to be fairly easy to address apart from systematic concerns. First, the players simply don't work hard enough to stay between their man and the basket.....the most fundamental defensive concept we were introduced to in 3rd grade. Last night, the players put more effort into cutting off drives in the last 5-6 minutes than they had the entire game. As a consequence their overall D improved and they had a puncher's chance to win the game. Second, this team has the greatest # of lazy ass one-handed passes, and passes with bad entry angles, of any team in the Big Ten. Again, these are fundamental principles that aren't being stressed.
It’s a culture with no discipline
 
I played college ball nearly 30 years ago...and to this day, I still remember, hear, feel the words "no middle" when I watch basketball games at any level.
The puzzling thing for me is, you vividly remember what was hammered into you by your college coach, do you think Woodson does not remember what his coach hammered on? The coach who was the master of dictating how the game would be played? Assuming Woodson does remember this stuff, why is he apparently not using that same approach in his coaching?
 
TJD played 40 minutes yesterday. There’s no need to play Duncomb if that’s the case going forward. There’s never going to be a reason for Logan and TJD to be on the floor together.
Great point and I am surprised others don’t seem to see this. Everyone is yelling about how bad Duncomb is because he doesn’t play. He is not Race or Reneau, he can’t play the 4. So long as TJD is on this team no player that plays exclusively center will see the floor much. And that creates a logjam at the 4 too. Race and Reneau would both also play center in Woodsons system but they share time at the 4 mostly because TJD isn’t coming out in close games. And with race hurt Geronimo sees more time at the 4. Banks has looked solid in his few minutes but he just has a ton of bodies in front of him right now.

I will be so glad when we get down to 1 or 2 players that play the 5. Imo guys like Banks is what Woody is after for the 4. Guys like TJD/Race/Reneau will be our centers.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Spartans9312
Great point and I am surprised others don’t seem to see this. Everyone is yelling about how bad Duncomb is because he doesn’t play. He is not Race or Reneau, he can’t play the 4. So long as TJD is on this team no player that plays exclusively center will see the floor much. And that creates a logjam at the 4 too. Race and Reneau would both also play center in Woodsons system but they share time at the 4 mostly because TJD isn’t coming out in close games. And with race hurt Geronimo sees more time at the 4. Banks has looked solid in his few minutes but he just has a ton of bodies in front of him right now.

I will be so glad when we get down to 1 or 2 players that play the 5. Imo guys like Banks is what Woody is after for the 4. Guys like TJD/Race/Reneau will be our centers.
At this point JG is almost unplayable. Brings nothing offensively and is just a complete and total liability on the defensive end. Teams are going to go after him every single possession. Malik is good in spurts but another guy that you can't play more than 15 minutes a game.

At this point, it is what it is. IU needs to go small and hope to score as many points as possible. I liked how they went zone yesterday after getting down a ton and it really seemed to throw a wrench at NW. Of course they stayed in it too long and NW adjusted and the lead ballooned right back to where it was. But IU is going to have to mix in a few wrinkles defensively to keep drivers out of the lane and to keep the foul count down. IU surrendered 53 FT's combined in their two games this week. That isn't going to cut it.
 
At this point JG is almost unplayable. Brings nothing offensively and is just a complete and total liability on the defensive end. Teams are going to go after him every single possession. Malik is good in spurts but another guy that you can't play more than 15 minutes a game.

At this point, it is what it is. IU needs to go small and hope to score as many points as possible. I liked how they went zone yesterday after getting down a ton and it really seemed to throw a wrench at NW. Of course they stayed in it too long and NW adjusted and the lead ballooned right back to where it was. But IU is going to have to mix in a few wrinkles defensively to keep drivers out of the lane and to keep the foul count down. IU surrendered 53 FT's combined in their two games this week. That isn't going to cut it.
Going small is what got us back in the game last night, and also got us back in the game after Iowa took an 8 point lead in the second half. Rebounding is clearly a concern, but that will just need to be 5 guys going to the glass.

Geronimo can’t be played anymore. For someone who is so poor offensively, he finds a way to take a ton of shots.
 
At this point JG is almost unplayable. Brings nothing offensively and is just a complete and total liability on the defensive end. Teams are going to go after him every single possession. Malik is good in spurts but another guy that you can't play more than 15 minutes a game.

At this point, it is what it is. IU needs to go small and hope to score as many points as possible. I liked how they went zone yesterday after getting down a ton and it really seemed to throw a wrench at NW. Of course they stayed in it too long and NW adjusted and the lead ballooned right back to where it was. But IU is going to have to mix in a few wrinkles defensively to keep drivers out of the lane and to keep the foul count down. IU surrendered 53 FT's combined in their two games this week. That isn't going to cut it.
Completely agree even though it hurts me. I just do not understand how Geronimo who showed a few flashes last year seems so inept on defense and confused on offense.

I also loved the changes last game and our execution was a bit sloppy in both the press and zone it will be something we get better at as we use it.

Fingers crossed we play some better D, protect the ball, and hit some darn free throws going forward!
 
I was talking to a friend and said if our starters played PU's spot for spot in 1 on 1, I think we'd have the edge at 4 positions (before Race was hurt) and maybe all 5 and I'd guess our guys would beat their's a majority of times. But, as a team, right now, I'd guess PU would beat us 8 out of 10.

Well in one on one there are no passes/assists. No team defense. No running plays on offense and being where you should be and making the right decisions. Very little rebounding. Checkers vs. Chess.

And I think if it was a one on one tournament, some of our bench players would play over some of our starters who play good D and team ball in game situations.
 
Going small is what got us back in the game last night, and also got us back in the game after Iowa took an 8 point lead in the second half. Rebounding is clearly a concern, but that will just need to be 5 guys going to the glass.

Geronimo can’t be played anymore. For someone who is so poor offensively, he finds a way to take a ton of shots.
He had that one great game last year in the NCAA and ever since has gone downhill. I agree Geronimo needs to stay on the bench.
 
The puzzling thing for me is, you vividly remember what was hammered into you by your college coach, do you think Woodson does not remember what his coach hammered on? The coach who was the master of dictating how the game would be played? Assuming Woodson does remember this stuff, why is he apparently not using that same approach in his coaching?
??? One major difference is that was my last main basketball experience. I've coached a little since then, but nothing consistent. Woody has had quite a lot of very different experiences since playing for RMK. Might be he likes those experiences more? Or is more comfortable with them? Or just thinks they're better than his RMK experiences?

I don't really care, in the end. Pick some offensive and defensive philosophies, and forge them into your program and players.
 
Completely agree even though it hurts me. I just do not understand how Geronimo who showed a few flashes last year seems so inept on defense and confused on offense.

I also loved the changes last game and our execution was a bit sloppy in both the press and zone it will be something we get better at as we use it.

Fingers crossed we play some better D, protect the ball, and hit some darn free throws going forward!
The only thing I can think, at this point, is using his minutes differently. Play him exclusively alongside TJD, but completely flip their assignments and roles. TJD plays out on the perimeter offensively and defensively. And have JG play the 5.

Its definitely not perfect. But if you limit JG's opportunities to touch the ball, and limit how much he's exposed out on the perimeter defensively...his athleticism could be of some value with offensive rebounding, blocking some shots, etc...

I'm sure that's not what JG would want for his own personal career development. But if he's not aware of how poorly he's playing right now in his current role...well that wouldn't be good. This would be an opportunity for him to narrow his focus, and use the only thing he has going for him right now which is his length and athleticism.

Just a thought.
 
Tough to have an identity reacting versus dictating things.
"No identity" was what came to my mind at the start of the game yesterday. Injuries have led to that because X, Race, and TJD gave us an identity even if the system didn't. Right now we're just treading water - barely.
 
The box scores don't lie. Geronimo goes scoreless. Kopf puts up 2 shots in 26 minutes. Galloway is useless on the offensive end. Bates is streaky and wasn't a factor this game. Gotta keep throwing in the freshman. They are talented and can't be much worse than the names mentioned above.

Defensively we are a mess. Guards can't keep anyone in front of them and are leaving to help way too much. Also, not closing out on shooters. Northwestern was not running a difficult offense they just passed passed passed, penetrated and dished for an open 3. I hate to say it but maybe think about a three two zone.

FYI, JHS is playing great.
 
  • Like
Reactions: IU FAN IN W. NC
??? One major difference is that was my last main basketball experience. I've coached a little since then, but nothing consistent. Woody has had quite a lot of very different experiences since playing for RMK. Might be he likes those experiences more? Or is more comfortable with them? Or just thinks they're better than his RMK experiences?

I don't really care, in the end. Pick some offensive and defensive philosophies, and forge them into your program and players.
Yeah I wasn't suggesting that Woodson should coach exactly like RMK. You observe that Woodson doesn't seem to have a philosophy, and is reacting. Yet RMK was one of the best ever at defining a philosophy, forging it into his program, and demanding effort and execution on the floor, so it's just puzzling (to me) why Woodson seems to not do those things.
 
  • Like
Reactions: .Gerdis
For months and months, I've been harping on our main problems being that our offense is bad, and that we aren't capable of stopping good opposing wings. I now think its much more widespread and foundational than that. I think the individual talents that X provided, that a fully healthy TJD provided, that Race provided, masked some of the foundational issues in our program. And now that a couple of those guys are out completely, and TJD is now a little less explosive, the true issues are becoming more clear.

I think Woodson is coaching from a reactive position right now, instead of establishing things in his program that will allow his teams to dictate, instead of react.

Defensively...we're now scrambling and running zones, and presses. Gone are the high ball pressure man to man days we've seen more than we haven't since he arrived. That tells me that it was more of a product of player personnel, and gameday talking points, than it was a foundational thing that he drilled into his players early and often. So we're reacting to our situation and to our opponents, instead of having something galvanizing to rely on. I played college ball nearly 30 years ago...and to this day, I still remember, hear, feel the words "no middle" when I watch basketball games at any level. Watching my son play HS ball, is actually uncomfortable at times, because their program emphasizes funneling people middle, so they put their low legs up when defending on the wing. So almost every time my son is defending someone on the wing, I have the gut reaction that he's doing it wrong. Every single practice, every workout, every game of my college career, not getting beat middle was demanded. We did shell drills, 1 on 1 and 2 on 2 checkout drills, we ran for it, we got kicked out of practices for it, we were benched because of it. As a result, we rarely ever got beat middle. We dictated where the other teams were able to run their offense. And we were nearly always ranked in the top 10 percent nationally in most defensive stats. I see absolutely zero tenets in IU's defensive efforts that show any "no middle" type foundational things being taught. And obviously it doesn't have to be "no middle". My sons team is actually pretty solid defensively. They have more help in the middle of the court, they're good at packing the help lines and forcing other teams into turnovers and shooting from the perimeter. Syracuse famously runs a 2-3 zone. Bad 2-3 zones, that are thrown out there by coaches that are REACTING to other teams, are about the worst defense you can possibly run. You can't rebound out of them well, you give up tons of open looks, etc... But when you recruit to it, practice it every day, demand that its played correctly...well we've all seen what it can do. It ends up dictating how the other team plays offense.

Offensively...I just can't stomach our main offense being what we inevitably end up running as games come down the stretch. We've seen different things from game to game, I often reference the Nebraska game, as an example. We even see dramatic differences within games. Again...this leads me to think we don't have a set offense, or set groups of plays that Woody works on, relentlessly, every single day. Referencing my college days again, I can still vividly remember our 3 out/2 in, high low oriented offense. We had the base offense, and we had a series of odd and even numbered plays that we'd run. I could diagram all of them still to this day. And we were all so versed in them, that most of us knew what versions of the offense we were going to run before our coach even called anything, based off how the game was going. My point from the references to my college days, obviously, is not to compare myself to IU players. In fact, we were about as far from that as a team could get. Our tallest starter was 6'5, and he was a wing. Our post players were both 6'3. Yet we won over 60% of our games, basically being smaller, and often times less athletic, at most positions. We dictated how the game was going to be played. As evidenced by losing nearly 40% of the time, it didn't always equal a win. But against the teams that were far bigger and just better, we rarely ever got blown out, and beat a good amount of them on a regular basis. And we rarely, if ever, lost to teams that were similar to us size/talent wise.

I don't think Woody is doing anything like this at IU. I think really good programs, that are solid year in and year out, are doing these sorts of things. And almost invariably, it shows up as games go on. Most teams end up dictating offensively and defensively to us how the game is going to be played. And our talent isn't elite enough to overcome it. So while our talent level allows for flashes of brilliant play, basically without fail, we end up regressing back. Even in the Xavier and UNC games, we didn't put either of those teams away, despite playing really well for a good chunk of those games. And those are our two shining examples of what we can be, when playing our "best". Outside those games, are there ANY games during Woody's tenure that we were good start to finish?

He's not teaching them anything they can rely on when times get tough. And it shows. And it sucks, because we got some tough times ahead.
I don’t have any clue as to what it takes to install the sort of system you are describing. I can also understand the temptation, given a roster with X, TJD, and Race at full strength and pressure to win today, to lean on their talent instead of starting over with a system. I have no idea if that is what actually happened. Rewind the clock and no one saw all three of these guys out/seriously hampered due to injury.

Another possibility is that CMW just isn’t getting through to the younger players for whatever reason, or there’s something else going on.

These were two close losses. Gut punches for sure, but if Race doesn’t get blindside cut blocked or if we hit two more free throws in each game we’re 3-1. We’re seeing a pretty low probability bad outcome. Had this happened earlier in the season, CMW would be closer to finding an answer. I wouldn’t want his job right now.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Beorik and ams66
I don’t have any clue as to what it takes to install the sort of system you are describing. I can also understand the temptation, given a roster with X, TJD, and Race at full strength and pressure to win today, to lean on their talent instead of starting over with a system. I have no idea if that is what actually happened. Rewind the clock and no one saw all three of these guys out/seriously hampered due to injury.

Another possibility is that CMW just isn’t getting through to the younger players for whatever reason, or there’s something else going on.

These were two close losses. Gut punches for sure, but if Race doesn’t get blindside cut blocked or if we hit two more free throws in each game we’re 3-1. We’re seeing a pretty low probability bad outcome. Had this happened earlier in the season, CMW would be closer to finding an answer. I wouldn’t want his job right now.
That's the simple way of looking at things but would say that IU's inability to close games late has been more than problematic. Schematically, I don't think there's anything wrong with what IU is running offensively. If you would have told me heading into the week that IU was going to score 89 and 83 points respectively given the opponents, I would have said without hesitation that IU would have gone 2-0 and would have been sitting pretty in the grand scheme of things with a much better outlook towards the end of the year. But alas, they went 0-2, injuries are taking a toll, and IU is in full blown danger mode.
 
That's the simple way of looking at things but would say that IU's inability to close games late has been more than problematic. Schematically, I don't think there's anything wrong with what IU is running offensively. If you would have told me heading into the week that IU was going to score 89 and 83 points respectively given the opponents, I would have said without hesitation that IU would have gone 2-0 and would have been sitting pretty in the grand scheme of things with a much better outlook towards the end of the year. But alas, they went 0-2, injuries are taking a toll, and IU is in full blown danger mode.
I think your take on the offense is a pretty simple way of looking at it as well. I'm not sure I could point to a ton of things that we did schematically, in either game, offensively. Nearly all of JHS points in either game were generated by his own ability to make shots/plays. Not many ball screens even, certainly no giving the ball up and running a few actions and getting the ball back and making plays.

TJD's points early on against Iowa came from some decent action...but as that game rolled on, most of his stuff was one on one effort stuff on his part as well, similar to NW game.

But as you said, scoring 89 and 83 respective should win you games. Hard to focus a ton on the offensive problems, right now, as we are scoring a good amount of points.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Spartans9312
I think your take on the offense is a pretty simple way of looking at it as well. I'm not sure I could point to a ton of things that we did schematically, in either game, offensively. Nearly all of JHS points in either game were generated by his own ability to make shots/plays. Not many ball screens even, certainly no giving the ball up and running a few actions and getting the ball back and making plays.

TJD's points early on against Iowa came from some decent action...but as that game rolled on, most of his stuff was one on one effort stuff on his part as well, similar to NW game.

But as you said, scoring 89 and 83 respective should win you games. Hard to focus a ton on the offensive problems, right now, as we are scoring a good amount of points.
When you have a big guard like JHS who can not only get downhill, but score from all 3 levels, I think the emphasis on running sets and designed plays each time down becomes less imperative. Purdue always seems to be the comparison for IU in the way that Painter recruits to his system and runs his offense. When you're a team like Purdue who doesn't have anyone who can create their own shot, you have to run more sets to get guys open. Now, I do think IU needs to do a better job of getting guys to cut and screening away from the ball, but I think IU has found an offensive niche with JHS rapidly become a takeover type player.
 
When you have a big guard like JHS who can not only get downhill, but score from all 3 levels, I think the emphasis on running sets and designed plays each time down becomes less imperative. Purdue always seems to be the comparison for IU in the way that Painter recruits to his system and runs his offense. When you're a team like Purdue who doesn't have anyone who can create their own shot, you have to run more sets to get guys open. Now, I do think IU needs to do a better job of getting guys to cut and screening away from the ball, but I think IU has found an offensive niche with JHS rapidly become a takeover type player.
Less imperative for JHS to be successful statistically maybe. But I don't think schematically the last two games have shown any sort of reliable way forward for this team. We've scored points before...heck we hung 100 on Syracuse's vaunted zone last year (not as good as they normally are, but still Syracuse and their zone). Depending on a frosh, that's never been a high volume scorer in his life before, to become that reliably, basically on his own, in the B10...I'm a tad skeptical it has staying power. And we've seen TJD have monster games before, and regress back a little afterwards. It seems like he's getting his numbers the last couple games the same way he has most of his career. He'll remain reliably good, Just not sure we can expect anything close to what we got the last two games, night in and night out.

One thing I agree on...JHS will continue to put up numbers. And with his size, that'll be enough to cement himself as an NBA prospect in this draft. He'll be gone.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Spartans9312
Less imperative for JHS to be successful statistically maybe. But I don't think schematically the last two games have shown any sort of reliable way forward for this team. We've scored points before...heck we hung 100 on Syracuse's vaunted zone last year (not as good as they normally are, but still Syracuse and their zone). Depending on a frosh, that's never been a high volume scorer in his life before, to become that reliably, basically on his own, in the B10...I'm a tad skeptical it has staying power. And we've seen TJD have monster games before, and regress back a little afterwards. It seems like he's getting his numbers the last couple games the same way he has most of his career. He'll remain reliably good, Just not sure we can expect anything close to what we got the last two games, night in and night out.

One thing I agree on...JHS will continue to put up numbers. And with his size, that'll be enough to cement himself as an NBA prospect in this draft. He'll be gone.
I do think the one silver lining to Race's injury (and X to an extent) is the fact it opens up the offense and it allows for guys like TJD and JHS to maximize their potential. I've seen enough of JHS to conclude that he's going to get his night in and night out from here on out. He's not going to score 33 and hit 5/7 3's every night like he did against Northwestern, but I think he's a 17/18 ppg scorer from here on out. He's taken his new role about as well as anyone could ask, let alone for a freshman. TJD with more spacing should continue to be a force, possibly more, so long as his back keeps him up right. Just need more consistency out of Bates, Galloway, and Kopp. Can't have a game like Northwestern where all 3 are non-factors on the offensive end.
 
ADVERTISEMENT

Latest posts

ADVERTISEMENT