You have to hire an Elite coach if you want to be Elite again

[ufo33]

Nick Saban
Jim Harbaugh
Urban Meyer
You get what you pay for. If IU does not want to move on from Coach Crean, then it accepts mediocrity.

 

[Hank Reardon]

Perhaps IU doesn't wish to be elite. I mean, it's not as if we've mattered for the last 20 years. If they gave a shit you'd think they'd have made some sort of effort by now.

That it's been a 20 year clown show should give you a hint. They don't actually care.

 

[ufo33]

If IU put money into upgrading and building great facilities without a winning team, it needs to invest in a great coach or IU just built a lot of empty seats and a museum to past greatness. The coach IS the program.

 

[Hank Reardon]

If IU put money into upgrading and building great facilities without a winning team, it needs to invest in a great coach or IU just built a lot of empty seats and a museum to past greatness. The coach IS the program.

And yet, the coach is still Tom Crean. If that remains to be the case a month from now, what would that suggest to you?

 

[JonesIndiana]

Nick Saban
Jim Harbaugh
Urban Meyer
You get what you pay for. If IU does not want to move on from Coach Crean, then it accepts mediocrity.

Jim Harbaugh has won national titles?

Thad Matta, is he elite? I kept reading that the last few years here, but Crean has done better than him the last five years.

Winning two Big Ten titles the last five years is mediocre? If it is, how come no one school one more than us? Or maybe you don't know how to define mediocre.

The other thing you missed in your comparison, the athletic budgets and $$ at Michigan, Ohio State, Alabama compared to IU. Apples and Oranges.

 

[dbmhoosier]

Matta was most certainly elite before his back problems. 2 FFs, 3 Elite 8s, 5 B1G titles, 4 BTT tourney titles, etc. He would've taken the IU job in 2006 had Adam Herbert not been around and we had been allowed to hire a non-minority coach.

 

[birdforpar]

Jim Harbaugh has won national titles?

Thad Matta, is he elite? I kept reading that the last few years here, but Crean has done better than him the last five years.

Winning two Big Ten titles the last five years is mediocre? If it is, how come no one school one more than us? Or maybe you don't know how to define mediocre.

The other thing you missed in your comparison, the athletic budgets and $$ at Michigan, Ohio State, Alabama compared to IU. Apples and Oranges.

Win the title finish 12, win the title finish 10 = mediocre.

 

[JonesIndiana]

Matta was most certainly elite before his back problems. 2 FFs, 3 Elite 8s, 5 B1G titles, 4 BTT tourney titles, etc. He would've taken the IU job in 2006 had Adam Herbert not been around and we had been allowed to hire a non-minority coach.

I said the last few years, when so many of you were still saying Matta was elite. Which is it?

 

[NA Hoosier]

Jim Harbaugh has won national titles?

Thad Matta, is he elite? I kept reading that the last few years here, but Crean has done better than him the last five years.

Winning two Big Ten titles the last five years is mediocre? If it is, how come no one school one more than us? Or maybe you don't know how to define mediocre.

The other thing you missed in your comparison, the athletic budgets and $$ at Michigan, Ohio State, Alabama compared to IU. Apples and Oranges.

Crean has missed the NCAA tourney in 5 of his 9 years at IU. That's worse than mediocre. Especially considering that the IU program only missed the tourney 4 times in the 30 years prior to Tom Crean.

How this guy is still employed by IU and is paid $3.1 million a year for these results is beyond me.

 

[JonesIndiana]

Nick Saban
Jim Harbaugh
Urban Meyer
You get what you pay for. If IU does not want to move on from Coach Crean, then it accepts mediocrity.

Michigan athletic budget $152 million
Ohio State $167 million
Alabama $149 million




Indiana $88 million

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

The entire premise of this thread is flawed, which should be obvious by the use of football coaches for examples. How many times can anyone think of an elite basketball program hiring an elite coach? Pitino at Louisville is the only obvious one. In virtually every case, an elite coach becomes elite at the elite program.

 

[JonesIndiana]

Crean has missed the NCAA tourney in 5 of his 9 years at IU. That's worse than mediocre. Especially considering that the IU program only missed the tourney 4 times in the 30 years prior to Tom Crean.

How this guy is still employed by IU and is paid $3.1 million a year for these results is beyond me.

First three years rebuilding. Crean has won two Big Ten titles outright, in the previous 23 years that was done one other time and not by a guy named Knight.

 

[VanPastorMan]

Nick Saban
Jim Harbaugh
Urban Meyer
You get what you pay for. If IU does not want to move on from Coach Crean, then it accepts mediocrity.

Here Here!!!!!!!!

 

[IU Hoops Fan]

I said the last few years, when so many of you were still saying Matta was elite. Which is it?

At least Matta has been at an elite status. Crean hasn't been. Mike Davis was as successful as Crean has been.

Crean is a decent coach. He should be coach at a school that wants decent results. It's pretty simple, really

 

[JonesIndiana]

Here Here!!!!!!!!

Ohio State, Michigan, Alabama. It is hysterical to think that some of you actually believe our basketball program relates or is the same (even in the glory days) to those programs. We were always the next step below. Also, those programs continued to prosper for the most part. When Harbaugh wasn't there, Lloyd Carr still won a national title. Alabama still won SEC championships before Saban. Ohio State still competed for conference titles and major bowl games in most years. We haven't because Knight hung on too long and the administration put us in a stall for two decades.

Thus, these comparisons are ludicrous.

 

[JonesIndiana]

At least Matta has been at an elite status. Crean hasn't been. Mike Davis was as successful as Crean has been.

Crean is a decent coach. He should be coach at a school that wants decent results. It's pretty simple, really

Davis had one great run, with players that committed to play for IU under Bob Knight. Davis isn't close to the coach Crean is. Crean took his team to the Final Four. Crean also took IU teams to two conference titles, #1 ranking, etc. What did Mike Davis ever do with his players, not someone else's? NOTHING

 

[IU Hoops Fan]

They are ludicrous because of fans like you who have lowered expectations so much that you are willing to defend Crean's record.

 

[IU Scott]

First three years rebuilding. Crean has won two Big Ten titles outright, in the previous 23 years that was done one other time and not by a guy named Knight.

I use to use the same excuses you did to defend Crean but this year has totally lost me. These things we have seen over the last 9 years has not changed.
1) Turnovers
2) Lack of defense
3) Play faster,faster and then faster
4) Lack of success in any tournament.
5) Terrible non conference schedule

 

[IU Hoops Fan]

Davis had one great run, with players that committed to play for IU under Bob Knight. Davis isn't close to the coach Crean is. Crean took his team to the Final Four. Crean also took IU teams to two conference titles, #1 ranking, etc. What did Mike Davis ever do with his players, not someone else's? NOTHING

Compare The Big 10 records of Davis and Crean. The problem for you are those things called results. See, results matter. To most people.

 

[i'vegotwinners]

Harbaugh and Meyer both had strong former ties with those schools.

 

[Hank Reardon]

The entire premise of this thread is flawed, which should be obvious by the use of football coaches for examples. How many times can anyone think of an elite basketball program hiring an elite coach? Pitino at Louisville is the only obvious one. In virtually every case, an elite coach becomes elite at the elite program.

That's true. Perhaps a better way to look at it is if you wish to be an elite program, you can't stick with an obviously non-elite option and hope something changes.

 

[JonesIndiana]

They are ludicrous because of fans like you who have lowered expectations so much that you are willing to defend Crean's record.

I didn't lower the expectations. I wasn't the assclown that Bob Knight was at the end, that's on him. That started it all. I didn't hire Mike Davis, a terrible replacement. Or Kelvin Sampson. Those expectations were established then and there. The last few years, I've seen what we are capable of, winning the conference, going to the Sweet 16 and hopefully a breakthrough, hasn't happened yet. My expectations were set by the idiot that coached us late in the 1990's and the administration that followed, no one else. The same idiot that wished everyone dead two days ago, but people here will support him in droves regardless of his petulant tantrums and how he started the plunge of IU hoops.

 

[Hoosier Booey]

Nick Saban
Jim Harbaugh
Urban Meyer
You get what you pay for. If IU does not want to move on from Coach Crean, then it accepts mediocrity.

You think ND got what they paid for in Charlie Weis?

Spending big money on a coach doesn't guarantee anything. I'd take Archie Miller today and be thrilled. I just know Surfboard Fred will bring in Lon Kruger or some other fart hire as Crean's replacement.

 

[IU Hoops Fan]

The entire premise of this thread is flawed, which should be obvious by the use of football coaches for examples. How many times can anyone think of an elite basketball program hiring an elite coach? Pitino at Louisville is the only obvious one. In virtually every case, an elite coach becomes elite at the elite program.

I guess it depends on what you consider elite, but UNC hired Williams. UK hired Cal. But, I'm not sure we need to hire an established "elite" coach. If we could get Donovan, fine. But I'd be thrilled with Archie Miller.

 

[NA Hoosier]

First three years rebuilding. Crean has won two Big Ten titles outright, in the previous 23 years that was done one other time and not by a guy named Knight.

Crean is too inconsistent to get paid Top 7 money nationally.

Crean's Big 10 record in non-title seasons is abysmal. Take out his first 3 years and his Big 10 record is 34-38 in 4 non-title seasons. He's 2-16 as IU coach vs Wisconsin.

If Crean was getting paid as a Top 100 D-1 coach I'd have much less of an issue with him at IU.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

That's true. Perhaps a better way to look at it is if you wish to be an elite program, you can't stick with an obviously non-elite option and hope something changes.

Now that I'll buy.

 

[bailey777]

Perhaps IU doesn't wish to be elite. I mean, it's not as if we've mattered for the last 20 years. If they gave a shit you'd think they'd have made some sort of effort by now.

That it's been a 20 year clown show should give you a hint. They don't actually care.

There in lies the problem. I don't think glass wants to be elite.

 

[JonesIndiana]

Compare The Big 10 records of Davis and Crean. The problem for you are those things called results. See, results matter. To most people.

Compare the Big Ten that Davis coached in vs the one Crean coached in. Not even comparable. Davis and Sampson coached in a light weight version of the Big Ten. My God, one year we sent 3 teams to the dance. THREE! FOR THE WHOLE CONFERENCE!!

https://www.teamrankings.com/ncaa-basketball/rpi-ranking/rpi-rating-by-conf

 

[IU Hoops Fan]

Compare the Big Ten that Davis coached in vs the one Crean coached in. Not even comparable. Davis and Sampson coached in a light weight version of the Big Ten. My God, one year we sent 3 teams to the dance. THREE! FOR THE WHOLE CONFERENCE!!

https://www.teamrankings.com/ncaa-basketball/rpi-ranking/rpi-rating-by-conf

I'm sorry, what was Davis' Big 10 record compared to Crean's again? I think you missed that. Listen, I get that you don't care about things like wins and losses. You are better than focusing on things like winning. But for a lot of us, winning matters. And if it mattered to you, you would understand why Crean has to go.

 

[Hank Reardon]

There in lies the problem. I don't think glass wants to be elite.

I'm reminded of a quote in Seven where Brad Pitt asks the officer if he';s sure the fat guy is dead. The office says, "I beg your pardon, Detective, but this guy's been sitting in pile in his own p*** and s***, if he wasn't dead, he would have stood up by now."

If IU cared about being elite, they'd have made some sort of effort by now. But they seem happy to sit in their own...whatever.

 

[IUINSB]

O We haven't because Knight hung on too long and the administration put us in a stall for two decades./QUOTE]

Your boy is a major part of that two decade stall.

 

[cshartle123]

Jim Harbaugh has won national titles?

Thad Matta, is he elite? I kept reading that the last few years here, but Crean has done better than him the last five years.

Winning two Big Ten titles the last five years is mediocre? If it is, how come no one school one more than us? Or maybe you don't know how to define mediocre.

The other thing you missed in your comparison, the athletic budgets and $$ at Michigan, Ohio State, Alabama compared to IU. Apples and Oranges.

Dude, Jim Harbaugh coached in a super bowl a couple years ago. I think it's safe to say that he is elite.

 

[hondo314]

Jim Harbaugh has won national titles?

Thad Matta, is he elite? I kept reading that the last few years here, but Crean has done better than him the last five years.

Winning two Big Ten titles the last five years is mediocre? If it is, how come no one school one more than us? Or maybe you don't know how to define mediocre.

The other thing you missed in your comparison, the athletic budgets and $$ at Michigan, Ohio State, Alabama compared to IU. Apples and Oranges.

Walks like a troll...talks like a troll...

 

[JonesIndiana]

Dude, Jim Harbaugh coached in a super bowl a couple years ago. I think it's safe to say that he is elite.

Do you know how many guys have coached in the Super Bowl and were not elite? Is Gary Kubiak an elite coach? Barry Switzer? Ray Malavasi? Sam Wyche? Jeff Fisher? Bobby Ross? John Fox? Andy Reid? Jim Fassell? Ken Whisenhunt? Lovie Smith? Ron Rivera? Dan Quinn? Sean Payton? The list goes on.

Harbaugh might turn out to be elite, but don't crown him yet.

 

[JonesIndiana]

I'm sorry, what was Davis' Big 10 record compared to Crean's again? I think you missed that. Listen, I get that you don't care about things like wins and losses. You are better than focusing on things like winning. But for a lot of us, winning matters. And if it mattered to you, you would understand why Crean has to go.

Again, look at the Big Ten Davis coached in, it was a joke. Same for the version Sampson coached in. Nothing compared to the Big Ten of the last 10 years.

 

[HoosierJimbo89]

The entire premise of this thread is flawed, which should be obvious by the use of football coaches for examples. How many times can anyone think of an elite basketball program hiring an elite coach? Pitino at Louisville is the only obvious one. In virtually every case, an elite coach becomes elite at the elite program.

Kansas and Bill Self, UNC and Roy Williams, UK and Calipari. Billy D and Stevens could return to college. I see what you are saying about basketball: other than Pitino, I can't think of a coach that has won a championship moving to another program. Roy and Calipari came close.

 

[cshartle123]

Do you know how many guys have coached in the Super Bowl and were not elite? Is Gary Kubiak an elite coach? Barry Switzer? Ray Malavasi? Sam Wyche? Jeff Fisher? Bobby Ross? John Fox? Andy Reid? Jim Fassell? Ken Whisenhunt? Lovie Smith? Ron Rivera? Dan Quinn? Sean Payton? The list goes on.

Harbaugh might turn out to be elite, but don't crown him yet.

We must have different definitions of elite coaching. Anyone that gets to the Super Bowl is an exceptional coach. This doesn't even include the job he did at Stanford. Are you whining because we didn't make the tournament? Either way, there is no excuse to stop using your brain.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Kansas and Bill Self, UNC and Roy Williams, UK and Calipari. Billy D and Stevens could return to college. I see what you are saying about basketball: other than Pitino, I can't think of a coach that has won a championship moving to another program. Roy and Calipari came close.

There are some borderline cases, like Roy and Cal. Some probably considered them already elite when they were hired, although some might not have. You can probably add Huggins to that list. He was close to elite if not already there when he got run out of Cincy.

But, yeah, you got the gist I was trying to get across. It seems like history suggests the best odds for finding an elite coach lie with finding him early; if he's already elite, he's probably established somewhere. This is why I've been so keen on Archie. I think he has the best chance at being the next big thing, and we should get him before someone else does.

 

[JonesIndiana]

We must have different definitions of elite coaching. Anyone that gets to the Super Bowl is an exceptional coach. This doesn't even include the job he did at Stanford. Are you whining because we didn't make the tournament? Either way, there is no excuse to stop using your brain.

I rattled off many a football coach in that list that no one would say is elite with the exception of Switzer, who cheated his head off at Oklahoma. No one would say they are elite. NO ONE. I think Harbaugh is a very good coach, and may end up being elite. Not there yet.

 

[all4IU]

Gee, Harbuagh went to Stanford, beat USC in his second year and made the cardinals a national power. He went to the 49er and brought them to the Superbowl his second season. If he were not "elite", I don't know what would be called elite.

Do you know how many guys have coached in the Super Bowl and were not elite? Is Gary Kubiak an elite coach? Barry Switzer? Ray Malavasi? Sam Wyche? Jeff Fisher? Bobby Ross? John Fox? Andy Reid? Jim Fassell? Ken Whisenhunt? Lovie Smith? Ron Rivera? Dan Quinn? Sean Payton? The list goes on.

Harbaugh might turn out to be elite, but don't crown him yet.