Will 2024 be a (very) mini-2002?

[mushroomgod_1]

Don't go all crazy on me, but there are some interesting comparisons between the '02 team at the end of their regular season, and this team as it goes into the BTT--

1. Head coach under pressure, and not appearing to be up to the job. Neither Mike was/is the long-term solution, and everyone knows it;

2 Two teams viewed by the fanbase as underachieving, although the '02 team obviously had a much higher upside;

3. Two coaches and two teams with what appear to be 'an attitude';

3. An exhausted and frustrated fanbase;

4. Two solid frontcourts----Jeffries, Newton & Odle v. Ware, MR, and Bako;

5. Two energetic 6th man types without a real position in AJ and Galloway;

6. Two teams with a short bench;

7. Two big blue whales to be vanquished......Duke in '02, Purdue in '24.

8 The differences? Coverdale & Fife v. the trio of X, Cupps & Leal. The difference between a team that made a run in the NCAA tourney and a team some think can win 3 games in what might be the worst BT in 30 years. 2nd biggest difference? I was at the '02 IU-Duke game in Lexington and am firmly of the opinion that IU never wins that game absent the 14000 IU fans. This IU team won't have that support, and hasn't shown during the year that it can survive without it. In the end the '02 run was an exciting diversion. If we were to win 3 in the BTT this year, it would be an interesting diversion.

9. I think that, in the end, had IU won the NC Mike Davis would still have been gone within 5 years. He was just a bad coach. Woodson's not as clueless as MD was, but he's lazier and older. I don't think he lasts more than two years in any event.

 

[kraft cheese+macaroni]

 

[dbmhoosier]

Uh no. The 2002 team had several really good shooters. This team stinks. Our record looks much better than it really is. We've won almost all of our close games and most losses have been blowouts. We were #12 in Kenpoms luck category for a reason.

 

[.Gerdis]

Hmmm.

I’ve been on the record as saying that beating Duke was terrible for the long term health of the program. We were down, what, 17 versus Duke?

Come back in front of a home crowd, and voila:
Md Extension, and here we are.

Could we be so lucky again?
🍀

 

[bsmitty08]

Don't go all crazy on me, but there are some interesting comparisons between the '02 team at the end of their regular season, and this team as it goes into the BTT--

1. Head coach under pressure, and not appearing to be up to the job. Neither Mike was/is the long-term solution, and everyone knows it;

2 Two teams viewed by the fanbase as underachieving, although the '02 team obviously had a much higher upside;

3. Two coaches and two teams with what appear to be 'an attitude';

3. An exhausted and frustrated fanbase;

4. Two solid frontcourts----Jeffries, Newton & Odle v. Ware, MR, and Bako;

5. Two energetic 6th man types without a real position in AJ and Galloway;

6. Two teams with a short bench;

7. Two big blue whales to be vanquished......Duke in '02, Purdue in '24.

8 The differences? Coverdale & Fife v. the trio of X, Cupps & Leal. The difference between a team that made a run in the NCAA tourney and a team some think can win 3 games in what might be the worst BT in 30 years. 2nd biggest difference? I was at the '02 IU-Duke game in Lexington and am firmly of the opinion that IU never wins that game absent the 14000 IU fans. This IU team won't have that support, and hasn't shown during the year that it can survive without it. In the end the '02 run was an exciting diversion. If we were to win 3 in the BTT this year, it would be an interesting diversion.

9. I think that, in the end, had IU won the NC Mike Davis would still have been gone within 5 years. He was just a bad coach. Woodson's not as clueless as MD was, but he's lazier and older. I don't think he lasts more than two years in any event.

Ware for sure won’t be back

 

[Tammany Hall]

Ha, if this team makes a big run late I think it will be their own unique story.

 

[mushroomgod_1]

Uh no. The 2002 team had several really good shooters. This team stinks. Our record looks much better than it really is. We've won almost all of our close games and most losses have been blowouts. We were #12 in Kenpoms luck category for a reason.

Yes, And I had completely forgot about Hornsby.

I said this team has a much lower ceiling. That '02 team shot .41 on 3s....this team .33.

But this team has better inside scorers.......,543 on 2s v. .485. If this team had had competent point guard play, even with the lack of out side shooting it would have been very competitive.

Coverdale had 189 3 pt attempts in '02. X has 28 this year. Switch the two our 3 attempts go from 481 to 642, 3 point % goes to .338, and our 2 point shooting % probably goes up a couple of points to about 56%. Also, Coverdale's A/TO rate was close to 2:1 while X's is close to 1:1.

Coverdale, Galloway, Ware, MR, and Bako......not bad at all, although there's still no depth we probably challenge Purdue for the BT title.

 

[mushroomgod_1]

Yes, And I had completely forgot about Hornsby.

I said this team has a much lower ceiling. That '02 team shot .41 on 3s....this team .33.

But this team has better inside scorers.......,543 on 2s v. .485. If this team had had competent point guard play, even with the lack of out side shooting it would have been very competitive.

Coverdale had 189 3 pt attempts in '02. X has 28 this year. Switch the two our 3 attempts go from 481 to 642, 3 point % goes to .338, and our 2 point shooting % probably goes up a couple of points to about 56%. Also, Coverdale's A/TO rate was close to 2:1 while X's is close to 1:1.

Coverdale, Galloway, Ware, MR, and Bako......not bad at all, although there's still no depth we probably challenge Purdue for the BT title.

To follow-up with this hypothetical, switch X and Coverdale and who wins the game?

--Ware, MR, Bako, Galloway, Coverdale, Walker, Cupps, Leal

v.

--Jeffries, Fife, X, Odle, Newton, Moye, Hornsby, D. Perry

 

[bailey777]

Don't go all crazy on me, but there are some interesting comparisons between the '02 team at the end of their regular season, and this team as it goes into the BTT--

1. Head coach under pressure, and not appearing to be up to the job. Neither Mike was/is the long-term solution, and everyone knows it;

2 Two teams viewed by the fanbase as underachieving, although the '02 team obviously had a much higher upside;

3. Two coaches and two teams with what appear to be 'an attitude';

3. An exhausted and frustrated fanbase;

4. Two solid frontcourts----Jeffries, Newton & Odle v. Ware, MR, and Bako;

5. Two energetic 6th man types without a real position in AJ and Galloway;

6. Two teams with a short bench;

7. Two big blue whales to be vanquished......Duke in '02, Purdue in '24.

8 The differences? Coverdale & Fife v. the trio of X, Cupps & Leal. The difference between a team that made a run in the NCAA tourney and a team some think can win 3 games in what might be the worst BT in 30 years. 2nd biggest difference? I was at the '02 IU-Duke game in Lexington and am firmly of the opinion that IU never wins that game absent the 14000 IU fans. This IU team won't have that support, and hasn't shown during the year that it can survive without it. In the end the '02 run was an exciting diversion. If we were to win 3 in the BTT this year, it would be an interesting diversion.

9. I think that, in the end, had IU won the NC Mike Davis would still have been gone within 5 years. He was just a bad coach. Woodson's not as clueless as MD was, but he's lazier and older. I don't think he lasts more than two years in any event.

These last four wins are against bad competition. Wisconsin went 3-8 in its last 11. Michigan State has lost 3 of 4. Maryland is 7-10. Minnesota has lost 4 or 5 and just lost to Northewestern by 24 points. So I dont think they can be compared at all imo.

 

[bailey777]

Uh no. The 2002 team had several really good shooters. This team stinks. Our record looks much better than it really is. We've won almost all of our close games and most losses have been blowouts. We were #12 in Kenpoms luck category for a reason.

Just look at the last four wins are the teams we beat are currently tanking.

 

[ams66]

I said this team has a much lower ceiling. That '02 team shot .41 on 3s....this team .33.

The three point line was closer then, not saying that accounts for all of the difference but it wasn't quite as long a shot as today.

 

[GeorgeStrait IU]

Don't go all crazy on me, but there are some interesting comparisons between the '02 team at the end of their regular season, and this team as it goes into the BTT--

1. Head coach under pressure, and not appearing to be up to the job. Neither Mike was/is the long-term solution, and everyone knows it;

2 Two teams viewed by the fanbase as underachieving, although the '02 team obviously had a much higher upside;

3. Two coaches and two teams with what appear to be 'an attitude';

3. An exhausted and frustrated fanbase;

4. Two solid frontcourts----Jeffries, Newton & Odle v. Ware, MR, and Bako;

5. Two energetic 6th man types without a real position in AJ and Galloway;

6. Two teams with a short bench;

7. Two big blue whales to be vanquished......Duke in '02, Purdue in '24.

8 The differences? Coverdale & Fife v. the trio of X, Cupps & Leal. The difference between a team that made a run in the NCAA tourney and a team some think can win 3 games in what might be the worst BT in 30 years. 2nd biggest difference? I was at the '02 IU-Duke game in Lexington and am firmly of the opinion that IU never wins that game absent the 14000 IU fans. This IU team won't have that support, and hasn't shown during the year that it can survive without it. In the end the '02 run was an exciting diversion. If we were to win 3 in the BTT this year, it would be an interesting diversion.

9. I think that, in the end, had IU won the NC Mike Davis would still have been gone within 5 years. He was just a bad coach. Woodson's not as clueless as MD was, but he's lazier and older. I don't think he lasts more than two years in any event.

2002
shared a B10 title. Woodson is far away from assembling a roster that can compete for a conference title without Trayce on it.

 

[GeorgeStrait IU]

Uh no. The 2002 team had several really good shooters. This team stinks. Our record looks much better than it really is. We've won almost all of our close games and most losses have been blowouts. We were #12 in Kenpoms luck category for a reason.

Plus that team had some good non conference wins @ Charlotte, Texas in Alaska shootout, and Notre Dame at home. (All three made Ncaa's) Maybe i'm forgetting one. Eitherway, Woodson wouldnt have won those type non conference games with this roster. Coverdale > X all day long.

 

[mushroomgod_1]

Uh no. The 2002 team had several really good shooters. This team stinks. Our record looks much better than it really is. We've won almost all of our close games and most losses have been blowouts. We were #12 in Kenpoms luck category for a reason.

To your point........even if we had had "good X" the entire year, we really needed a higher volume 3 pt shooter at the PG position.

X is hitting 39% on the year. Problem is, he's only taken 28 shots. Had he not been hurt, that likely would have been about 65 for the year. We needed the PG to take about twice that #.

Here's another crazy thing to consider.....what if IU had gotten Caleb Love?

Not the kind of PG I'd prefer, and not likely considering Woodson's loyalty to X....but maybe with this team? For Zona, he's taken 233!! 3s, hitting .352. But he also has 106 assists, with 61 TOs v. X with 46/41.

 

[RegionHoosiers]

I can't think of 2 teams much different than those 2. Coaching talent leaves much to be desired on either but that 02 team had player leadership and shooting skill.

Watch the IL game that year. I think IU hit 17 3's.

Davis was knocked for being a 4th seed one of those years. Woodson proclaims he's doing his job getting IU over the hump to a 6th seed.

 

[mushroomgod_1]

Plus that team had some good non conference wins @ Charlotte, Texas in Alaska shootout, and Notre Dame at home. (All three made Ncaa's) Maybe i'm forgetting one. Eitherway, Woodson wouldnt have won those type non conference games with this roster. Coverdale > X all day long.

I get all that. The question is whether this team can win 3 straight games v. very mediocre competition on a neutral court.......a long-shot for sure, but probably not as long a shot as that '02 team making it to the NC game.
Everyone was down on that '02 team as well until the unlikely run. I considered it a miracle at the time.

 

[mushroomgod_1]

I can't think of 2 teams much different than those 2. Coaching talent leaves much to be desired on either but that 02 team had player leadership and shooting skill.

Watch the IL game that year. I think IU hit 17 3's.

Davis was knocked for being a 4th seed one of those years. Woodson proclaims he's doing his job getting IU over the hump to a 6th seed.

If we had Coverdale on this team, with Galloway, that would have been ample leadership. Woody's not a good coach, but he's better than Mike Davis.

 

[Tammany Hall]

I can't think of 2 teams much different than those 2. Coaching talent leaves much to be desired on either but that 02 team had player leadership and shooting skill.

Watch the IL game that year. I think IU hit 17 3's.

Davis was knocked for being a 4th seed one of those years. Woodson proclaims he's doing his job getting IU over the hump to a 6th seed.

That Illinois game was sweet. Newton’s Law. Totally blitzed them.

 

[Tammany Hall]

Sadly our 2002 played more modern bball than our 2024 team.

 

[abraxis]

The '02 team was, in large part, schooled in the Bob Knight mindset, a big difference I recall. This '24 team has a softer feel in mental fortitude.

 

[CC Mac]

Win four in a row against VERY mediocre teams and some are talking about the Final Four.
And people wonder why IU’s fanbase is so disliked
WOW

 

[IUNorth]

Hmmm...impossible to know at this point. The St Marys and Miami losses are the main thing that's keeping my optimism in check right now. And just the overall inconsistency Woodson's IU teams have shown. We've won 4 in a row, and that's a great feeling. But I just can't fathom a Woody coached team continuing that streak much longer.

That 2002 IU team had a MUCH larger margin for error too because they had good post play, AND good shooters on the perimeter, AND the stuff Davis ran got all of them opportunities throughout the game.

We've looked better, overall, in the last 4 games, but there really hasn't been consistency with how we've won these games. That's a GOOD thing in some ways, shows they can figure it out. But yesterday, we devolved back to year 1 Woody IU team, by just dumping the ball down most possessions, and watching Kalel or Malik work. It ended up working out because Kalel was dominant. But we've seen where that doesn't work well. The Maryland and Minny games, we showed much more of a well rounded approach for longer stretches. Maybe with Trey out, Woody didn't feel we could pull off...not going back to the post focused stuff?...

Whatever it is...eventually we'll face a team that effective takes Kalel and Malik away, and we won't respond well to it.

That 2002 team was well balanced in how they played on both ends of the floor. So they could withstand poor performances, injuries, etc... and still beat good teams.

Anything can happen. Outside Purdue, there isn't a singular matchup that I think IU is clearly outmatched. Its just the consistency it would take to beat PSU, Nebraska, and Illinois...can't see it. Hope I'm wrong.

 

[mushroomgod_1]

Hmmm.

I’ve been on the record as saying that beating Duke was terrible for the long term health of the program. We were down, what, 17 versus Duke?

Come back in front of a home crowd, and voila:
Md Extension, and here we are.

Could we be so lucky again?
🍀

I'll never forget that '02 run....it was insane. NOBODY thought Mike Davis could coach. But everyone felt that team had something with Coverdale, Fife, and Jeffries....just an "it" factor. Then the Duke game, which was the best IU game I ever saw in person. All the IU fans are laughing all the way to the bank.

Then we get to the FF, and Mike Davis starts talking about being underpaid. Yikes. BAD mojo. Even with Coverdale hurt and Davis complaining, we grab the lead with about 8 minutes left, and the (mostly IU) crowd is going crazy. So Mike Davis.....puts on a press. Don't know if we had ever seen that all year. Maryland easily breaks it and their best player hits a wide-open 3 from the corner. Game over and, effectively, Mike Davis era over. And we all knew it immediately. Insane.

 

[ams66]

Win four in a row against VERY mediocre teams and some are talking about the Final Four.
And people wonder why IU’s fanbase is so disliked
WOW

Nobody is talking about a Final Four. Some are talking about possibly making the tournament. I think it's unlikely, but as of today is still technically possible.

 

[mushroomgod_1]

Win four in a row against VERY mediocre teams and some are talking about the Final Four.
And people wonder why IU’s fanbase is so disliked
WOW

Nobody's talking about the FF, and your post has nothing to do with the thread.

 

[GeorgeStrait IU]

That Illinois game was sweet. Newton’s Law. Totally blitzed them.

Loudest I heard Assembly Hall outside #40 breaking the records. Sound waves never to be broken due to one hand holding cell
phones. Knights return woulda matched it, but one handed noise isnt as loud as two.

 

[kraft cheese+macaroni]

Win four in a row against VERY mediocre teams and some are talking about the Final Four.
And people wonder why IU’s fanbase is so disliked
WOW

Can you link to those Final Four predictions? I might like to see those and participate.

 

[GeorgeStrait IU]

Win four in a row against VERY mediocre teams and some are talking about the Final Four.
And people wonder why IU’s fanbase is so disliked
WOW

I just want to win Thur and Fri and hope like hell Illinois & Purdue decide to rest for the following week.

 

[.Gerdis]

The '02 team was, in large part, schooled in the Bob Knight mindset, a big difference I recall. This '24 team has a softer feel in mental fortitude.

The ‘02 teams biggest strength was its mental toughness, which had been forged in the fires of the collective adversity that they shared.

 

[IUNorth]

I just want to win Thur and Fri and hope like hell Illinois & Purdue decide to rest for the following week.

Since I think there's zero chance we get an at large bid...then not having to play Illinois and/or Purdue, would help our NCAA chances. But if there's any sort of faint heartbeat for an at large, we need to be playing Illinois on Saturday, and Purdue on Sunday.

 

[kraft cheese+macaroni]

Loudest I heard Assembly Hall outside #40 breaking the records. Sound waves never to be broken due to one hand holding cell
phones. Knights return woulda matched it, but one handed noise isnt as loud as two.

Nope, Killingsworth's dunk was louder

 

[GeorgeStrait IU]

I'll never forget that '02 run....it was insane. NOBODY thought Mike Davis could coach. But everyone felt that team had something with Coverdale, Fife, and Jeffries....just an "it" factor. Then the Duke game, which was the best IU game I ever saw in person. All the IU fans are laughing all the way to the bank.

Then we get to the FF, and Mike Davis starts talking about being underpaid. Yikes. BAD mojo. Even with Coverdale hurt and Davis complaining, we grab the lead with about 8 minutes left, and the (mostly IU) crowd is going crazy. So Mike Davis.....puts on a press. Don't know if we had ever seen that all year. Maryland easily breaks it and their best player hits a wide-open 3 from the corner. Game over and, effectively, Mike Davis era over. And we all knew it immediately. Insane.

Yep I knew IU was gonna lose to the Ku/MD winner even especially MD was there the year before (Main reason I felt 93 woulda been our yesr with Hendo) But after he claimed rhe championship after Ou, I knew IU was screwed.

 

[GeorgeStrait IU]

Nope, Killingsworth's dunk was louder

I could see that.

 

[Victorbmyboy]

Uh no. The 2002 team had several really good shooters. This team stinks. Our record looks much better than it really is. We've won almost all of our close games and most losses have been blowouts. We were #12 in Kenpoms luck category for a reason.

You better go look. They didn’t light it up. 17 attempts with 7 makes. The biggest difference is defense. The B1G was a lot stronger back then too.

 

[kraft cheese+macaroni]

I could see that.

I don't remember who Newton dunked on for sure...Lucas Johnson? Someone else? The Hall did erupt though

 

[Tammany Hall]

Loudest I heard Assembly Hall outside #40 breaking the records. Sound waves never to be broken due to one hand holding cell
phones. Knights return woulda matched it, but one handed noise isnt as loud as two.

‘05 Duke would be my #1. The crowd was whipped up into a total frenzy — probably tired of ESPN and Vitale hyping up Duke and Cameron. I’ve never experienced anything like that. Not important.

If I recall that 2002 Illinois game crowd was kinda surprised — that was a breakout performance. Fantastic shooting.

 

[.Gerdis]

The B1G was a lot stronger back then too.

Yeah, the top of this league can’t scare anyone.

PU by a wide margin is the best team, and we are just waiting for another Peacock 🦚.

Seeing Nebraska and NU as top 4 BTT seeds?

 

[bailey777]

Win four in a row against VERY mediocre teams and some are talking about the Final Four.
And people wonder why IU’s fanbase is so disliked
WOW

Minn has lost 4 of 5
Wisconsin has lost 5 or 8
Michigan State has lost 4 of 5

Go beat Nebraska and Illinois and maybe we can talk but the competiton the last four has been poor.

 

[mushroomgod_1]

Yep I knew IU was gonna lose to the Ku/MD winner even especially MD was there the year before (Main reason I felt 93 woulda been our yesr with Hendo) But after he claimed rhe championship after Ou, I knew IU was screwed.

What I remember was him talking about how underpaid he was at his PC(s). I've never seen any other coach do that at a FF, before or after.

 

[GThomas]

A few wins against "meh" competition and 2002 is brought up? Yeah, I suppose it's possible IU makes a deep tourney run ... in the NIT.