Why is "Edey is just tall" such a controversial take?
- Thread starter IndyResident16
- Start date
Coming from Painter, I’ll wear that as a badge of honor. We’re talking about the biggest dope in college basketball:
-Coach of the worst loss in the history of the NCAAT
-Loser to three straight double-digit seeds
-advanced past the S16 one time in 20 years
Yeah, Matt Painter is the voice of reason in college basketball. He’s the Big Lots of the college coaching profession.
I always had trouble figuring out why TJD was so good. He never had any action run for him. It was almost like he just "loitered" in the shadows and had a 6th sense on how to score. But he was un-guardable. Almost like guys just gave up once he got the ball. But he was long and explosive - and just one of those guys who knew how to get to the rim and score.
The majors are just a different game. It's all switch everywhere and everyone has to guard anybody and everybody - everywhere. Edey probably won't be able to do that. I think it's a lazy way to play and why I don't care for the NBA - but when you play 82 games a year guys can't really expend the energy every night to fight through a screen or stay with your man. That's not really basketball to me...
Wow. This thread went places while I worked this afternoon.
@SaratogaBoiler1 you seem to be reacting emotionally here.
Edey's size is why he is the NPOY, but not the only reason. His conditioning. His shooting (free throws are an indicator, but so are the unguardable hook shots from 5-8ft), and his ability to seal post players off and always get the right position for advantageous layups/dunks/put backs is a skill. He has an ornate skill of knowing where the ball is likely to go and what angles would most benefit him to finish. His body control is off the charts for his size. That's why he fouls so little.
Those that don't think he has other skills besides size aren't worth arguing with.
Some people will never run a sub-6bmile no matter how hard they train. Some will never shoot 70+ from the line no matter how many free throws they shoot.
Zach has skills and likely would be a >33% shooter from 3 if he took volume. But why would he? That's the dumbest shot he could take. Which leads to my last point. His basketball IQ is off the charts.
Hammons was huge, but had poor conditioning and a low motor and questionable IQ at times. Haas was just too damn big and lacked the quickness and conditioning that Edey has. Haarms has the quickness but he could not keep weight on, even though he could shoot he still wasn't better than Edey.
If it was just size all 3 of those dudes would have been All Americans. And Haas is a great comp from a size and weight comparison and isn't in Edey's stratosphere when it comes to basketball skills.
Next time don't get so emotional about it. Some of these guys don't understand skill which is why they need someone to tell them how many stars are next to the recruits name to help them tell whether the player is good or not.
Meanwhile Purdue and Painter will put together a team of 4, 3, and no stars and continue to roll.
@SaratogaBoiler1 you seem to be reacting emotionally here.
Edey's size is why he is the NPOY, but not the only reason. His conditioning. His shooting (free throws are an indicator, but so are the unguardable hook shots from 5-8ft), and his ability to seal post players off and always get the right position for advantageous layups/dunks/put backs is a skill. He has an ornate skill of knowing where the ball is likely to go and what angles would most benefit him to finish. His body control is off the charts for his size. That's why he fouls so little.
Those that don't think he has other skills besides size aren't worth arguing with.
Some people will never run a sub-6bmile no matter how hard they train. Some will never shoot 70+ from the line no matter how many free throws they shoot.
Zach has skills and likely would be a >33% shooter from 3 if he took volume. But why would he? That's the dumbest shot he could take. Which leads to my last point. His basketball IQ is off the charts.
Hammons was huge, but had poor conditioning and a low motor and questionable IQ at times. Haas was just too damn big and lacked the quickness and conditioning that Edey has. Haarms has the quickness but he could not keep weight on, even though he could shoot he still wasn't better than Edey.
If it was just size all 3 of those dudes would have been All Americans. And Haas is a great comp from a size and weight comparison and isn't in Edey's stratosphere when it comes to basketball skills.
Next time don't get so emotional about it. Some of these guys don't understand skill which is why they need someone to tell them how many stars are next to the recruits name to help them tell whether the player is good or not.
Meanwhile Purdue and Painter will put together a team of 4, 3, and no stars and continue to roll.
I can post my analysis of that here for you if you start a thread about it
I actually like our chances more now than I did in November.
Well, of course. Tennessee, Creighton, Gonzaga and Purdue are astoundingly well matched and coached. It should be an incredibly competitive Midwest regional.
I do as well - lot of talk about Gonzaga’s size and how they have improved. Like most teams our entire team is better - from Smith to Colvin
I didn't and won't start the thread, but I encourage you to read my early posts in this thread before it got hijacked by your buddy.I can post my analysis of that here for you if you start a thread about it
I actually like our chances more now than I did in November.
I believe you guys are actually in a pretty good spot.
The NBA is the best of the best: either you belong, or you don't. I would argue hanging out 5 feet from the basket because you can't exist outside of that area is "lazy" and "not basketball." Chief Bromden could hit 1 ft. shots as well.
I would say, with all due respect, he pointed out that to argue with those who don’t agree Edey has skills isn’t worth arguing with. I will take his advice
Obviously a more coherent post than the tantrum Napoleon has been throwing the last couple of hours, but again these “skills” have everything to do with his size and nothing else. Somebody who is 7’4 300+ lbs is going to be able to not only position themselves better, but seal off a defender better than somebody who is 6’9 240 lbs. I don’t think I’m really re-inventing the wheel here by suggesting that either.
Here’s the thing Jimbo - you can still be an amazing basketball player at any level. The NBA drafts guys who don’t do crap all the time.
You literally live here rent free. This is an IU board. It is a free country, but I don't live on the PU board.
There are also guys that aren't drafted or drafted low that make it in the NBA. I'm not sure what your point is. If Zach can't hack it in the NBA, then I don't know how "great" he is. I don't believe you get kudos for staying in the minors.
You would think so, but that's not the case.
Getting in position isn't just about size. It's way more than that. If it was just about size every big dude would dominate the boards and thats not the case. But Edey has broken the career rebounding record at Purdue not just because of his size but because he has the additional intangible skills that go into it.
You aren't reinventing the wheel you are just over simplifying it and choosing to ignore everything else besides Edey's size that make him so dominant. Simply saying he does X because of his size when it's not just his size. It's his size + effort + IQ + conditioning + skill.
There is a reason guys like Caleb Swanigan or Dennis Rodman for the NBA folks were elite rebounders. Both dudes who dominated on the glass at well under 7' because they shared the same skills Edey possesses. Edey's size helps, but it's not the only thing.
Anyone who just can only mention "size" as the reason Edey is dominant is being over simplistic and aren't accounting for all of the rest that goes into it.
First player in college basketball history to ever have 800 or more points, 400 or more rebounds, 50 or more Blocked Shots and 50 or more Assists in one season.
He's a dominant college player almost exclusively due to his size. He's not a highly skilled basketball player, his size overcompensates in that regard. He wouldn't do half the things he does if he was 6'9. It's not a controversial take.
Who else is really lighting it up this year to complete for npoy?
Good for him to make the record books but prior two timers didn't used to go pro when they could as they do today. Why didn't he go pro last year if he was so great? Why isn't he going top 5 or 10?
Do you think he'll have the stats of even a TJD in his rookie NBA season?
Not taking anything away from his accomplishments or growth or how Painter has used him but the reality is that he's not good enough to compete at the next level.
Correct and WELL is relative to the task environment. In the NBA, his skill level isn't well because of the rule differences and level of competition.
In college or against anyone on this board, it's going to be well.
The exposure is coming. They call it..
The NBA.
THERES A REASON THE soon to be 2x NPOY is not on any draft boards.
The NBA.
THERES A REASON THE soon to be 2x NPOY is not on any draft boards.
I'm still not necessarily on board with the "He can't shoot" narrative either.
Is shooting free-throws a skill? Edey currently shoots a hair over 70%. If that is not a skill, then that's a bad sign for IU because Ware, Reneau, Sparks, Banks, Cupps, Galloway, and X are all then not skilled either (as their FT% is sub 70%).
Let's make a quick analogy to football: The option offense.
Nobody in the NFL runs it currently and hasn't for decades now. When NFL teams transitioned to pass-oriented offenses, that eventually trickled down into college and eventually HS as being the dominant offense being run.
...but the option is not dead. Some college teams still use it. Army runs option and went 11-2 in 2018 and ended the season ranked 19th. If you have the personnel to implement the option offense correctly, it is an extremely difficult scheme to defend against. It's not that option football doesn't work, it's just not the most efficient offense possible for scoring points. That's why the NFL went away from it.
Edey is option football. Nobody in the NBA uses his skill set anymore because the stretch 4 who can defend the basket and take shots from behind the arc is more efficient than a back-to-the-basket center. That does not mean that he does not have skills, it just means that the skills he has don't translate to what the majority of the upper-level teams use.
Is shooting free-throws a skill? Edey currently shoots a hair over 70%. If that is not a skill, then that's a bad sign for IU because Ware, Reneau, Sparks, Banks, Cupps, Galloway, and X are all then not skilled either (as their FT% is sub 70%).
Let's make a quick analogy to football: The option offense.
Nobody in the NFL runs it currently and hasn't for decades now. When NFL teams transitioned to pass-oriented offenses, that eventually trickled down into college and eventually HS as being the dominant offense being run.
...but the option is not dead. Some college teams still use it. Army runs option and went 11-2 in 2018 and ended the season ranked 19th. If you have the personnel to implement the option offense correctly, it is an extremely difficult scheme to defend against. It's not that option football doesn't work, it's just not the most efficient offense possible for scoring points. That's why the NFL went away from it.
Edey is option football. Nobody in the NBA uses his skill set anymore because the stretch 4 who can defend the basket and take shots from behind the arc is more efficient than a back-to-the-basket center. That does not mean that he does not have skills, it just means that the skills he has don't translate to what the majority of the upper-level teams use.
For the record, when I was looking up recent mock drafts yesterday to see where Ware was currently being projected, Edey was in every single one. He is currently projecting in the 20 to 32 range.
If I were you, I would not be calling other people "....the biggest dope in college basketball..." Since the beginning of the 2016-17 season, Purdue under Painter has gotten to the Sweet 16 four times and moved to the Elite 8 once. That is simply a fact. There were 2 Sweet 16 appearances before that as well. You obviously are ignorant about his performance as indicated by your post.
Self-Correction: in preparing my reply, I looked up past history to be sure that I was correct. I neglected this year. So Painter has been to the S16 5 times in the last 7 tournaments. The number of coaches that have done that is a very small number.
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