It’s rough to see some quality mid-majors pillaged. And the players just leave, it’s not like soccer where the school can get a transfer fee that compensates them for a job well done with that player. Brutal.
What's the point in recruiting freshman anymore
- Thread starter HoosierinNebraska
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yep, imaging being a diehard Indiana St fan. Just had your best season since Bird, lose in conf tourney, get snubbed from big dance, then a few weeks later....boom. Everything blows up. Back to square one.
I think it depends on the type of program you are. If you have a reputation of player development then the majority of the players should come from HS. If you are a program that is going to be rich with NIL the majority will come from the portal. The most successful teams will do both.
We're primarily losing kids to the portal who we should have never recruited in the first place. Shouldn't have to wait 2-3 years for someone like Gunn or Kaleb Banks to develop.
Imagine being a diehard IU fan. Just had another lousy season, lose to Nebraska in the conference tourney, not even a bubble team in the big dance, then a few weeks later…BAM! Everything comes up roses in the ‘24-‘25 season…big red roses for IU, thanks to the new NCAA rules. Back to blue blood status!
Moral of this story…fate works both ways, oppositely directed. Without luck there would be no unlucky.
I think Tucker is a throwback. He's willing to bet on his play doing the talking, being coached and staying as long as he needs to put himself in the best position to be drafted high. I'm sure he's being compensated well but he and his dad are refreshing in their approach and plan. There might be 3 kids a year that can make a case to be one and done. 25 think they can.
This year if I knew we we're landing this portal group, Tucker, Blazi and talking Moreno into reclassification would've been great.
This year if I knew we we're landing this portal group, Tucker, Blazi and talking Moreno into reclassification would've been great.
IU essentially cleaned out their below average players and grabbed proven portal players to replace them. There is not one player on the team who is incapable of contributing some valuable minutes. Gone perhaps are the guys we used to call the scrubs.
I’m saying if you recruit quality kids and they develop, IU shouldn’t lose them. Like Arizona losing Boswell and Ballo is a bad look
Ok? When IU starts losing kids of Boswell or Ballo’s caliber, then you can start to question the methodology. But IU is far more likely to bring in those caliber of kids via the portal than lose them. When you’re able to do that on a consistent basis, the need for 4-5 man recruiting classes becomes redundant.
I understand your point. However I’m going to hold off judgment until we’re sitting on 25+ wins and a high seed next mid March. No banners for off-season championships.
You're only saying that in hindsight. Gunn and Banks were fine recruits in ranking and position. So in your world, PU made a huge mistake recruiting Edey, right?
It will happen soon. Trending that way. Even you guys will have to start going portal to keep up.
You know you are talking to a former IU/ND reverseable jacket now PU/ND reversable jacket right?
I didn't say that at all. Purdue has always struggled to sign top end talent. Painter has recruited what, one 5* in 20 years? And it took some serious negotiation from that players guardian to get him to flip from Michigan State. I don't think IU is above taking somebody like Gunn or Banks, but IU doesn't need to recruit 3-5 kids outside the top 100 in this day in age with the new climate of college basketball. I'd take two years of a mid-major all conference player who is 22-23 years old over 4 years of a guy who needs 2-3 years to develop. Purdue has to take the other approach.
Seems to be working for them. IU chases the high end one and done kids and doesn’t win anything.
Again, you're talking hindsight. The portal and NIL weren't factors when we signed Gunn and Banks... and neither were we!
Edey I'm not even sure was a 3 star... thought I heard he was like the 340+ ranked recruit so he was a reach even for PU then.
I think when it all shakes out the best approach for a team like IU is going to be to still recruit high level, top 100 kids or someone you think has a much higher ceiling, and get multi-year players in the portal, then augment for specific/unexpected needs with 1 year guys. I think if we have no "standard" HS recruits often, it's going to bite us in the butt if teams don't come together and have chemistry for 1 year.
This whole discussion is about the current and future trajectory of college basketball. You don't need to fill an entire recruiting class with guys like Gunn and Banks when you're able to retool your roster each and every year. And I'm not sure what you're talking about, but the portal and NIL 100% existed when IU signed Gunn and Banks, they were both both true sophomores for crying out loud and both made some level of NIL.
I'm saying when we signed Gunn and Banks. The portal existed, but it didn't take off in it's current form until NIL came around and the two merged together as influences. Last year was the first year that I think any transfer IU had, got NIL deals to come to IU. And, the year before was the kid from OK St (I think) who ended up at Miami and supposedly wanted $800K... that was the first "transfer/portal" guy I recall who demanded a NIL deal to go to a school. I'm betting Gunn and Banks committed the year prior to that. Gunn, nor Banks, I'm confident did not have NIL deals when signed, and I also don't believe anyone had an NIL deal signed when they committed, I think that was the first year.
Banks and Gunn were the same class as Hood-Schifino and Reneau. You don't think JHS or Reneau got NIL money to come to Indiana? There were over 1000 kids in the portal the year Gunn and Banks signed with IU. IU brought in 3 transfers the year BEFORE Gunn and Banks signed. The NCAA gave everyone a one time free transfer exemption after the COVID season. Teams were absolutely being bought and built prior to Gunn and Banks signing. And irrespective, Gunn and Banks are just the two of the most recent examples of kids that IU doesn't necessarily need to rely on in recruiting going forward, that's why I used them as examples.
Another variable involved here is the ability and willingness of the program to develop and retain HS kids.
Gunn and Banks are perfect examples of the potential problem recruiting very talented, yet non elite HS kids... 5 years ago, they were both no brainer recruits. Today...guys like Rice and Carlyle are available in every portal class, and there's MUCH less downside risk with them, as they've already shown how they'll compete against college level competition.
Maybe the problem with Gunn and Banks was our staff didn't develop and utilize them correctly? In the end, it doesn't really matter though...right now they're our coaches, and Gunn and Banks were taking up spots and NIL money, that could have been used on proven college players.
If I'm IU's coach...with all the NIL and other resources at my disposal...
In every HS class, I identify 8-10 kids that I want my staff to actively engage, recruit, follow... I wouldn't necessarily use the star rating system to create the list, but in the end, most of them would be obvious "Top 50" level players.
I'd create a job, or jobs, if they don't already exist, to evaluate ALL levels of college basketball. Watch games, analyze, create watch lists, so when the portal hits, or however the game is played with contacting players or their families, I'd have a very clear idea on who I wanted to target. There might be 20-30 kids every year on this list.
I'd create a job, or jobs, or work to establish connections to make IU an attractive landing spot for the top young foreign players. As NIL expands, so will the amount of foreign kids choosing US colleges over club teams.
Whether I would go after younger portal kids, or older portal kids, would depend on a bunch of different factors. But I'd strive for balance every year. But the ultimate goal is putting out the best collection of talent, that fits my program, that I can find.
IU, with all its resources, can and does still attract elite talent. The key is building an elite basketball TEAM from that talent. There is absolutely ZERO reason why IU should lower their talent level standards, and adopt a "Purdue like" approach to recruiting and roster construction. They just need to get a lot better at picking the right elite kids to go after.
Why are they the only examples though. Loyer Smith are two Indiana kids that have panned out. Was it just a missed eval by woody then?
In state kids are great to bring in as long as they are the best available talent and character. IU missed on one this class. The world has changed.
Loyer hasn't panned out...he's been carried along by Smith and Edey.
A lot of coaches missed out on Smith.
Loyer would have portaled out of IU just like Gunn The jury is out on Smith, we will find out how good he is next season.
Yes and no, we could have used a shooter the last two years. We weren’t deep at all on the wing
Hard to say a kid who has been a double figure scorer for two years on a back to back #1 seed team hasn’t “panned” out.
He wouldn't be a good shooter on our team. And he's a horrible defender. Obviously I could be wrong, we'll see what he does this year without the huge Edey Magnet inside. I'm sure Painter will run some good stuff to get him looks. But Loyer is one of the weaker off guards in the conference, when you factor in all facets of basketball.
No it isn't...it took me less than a second to form the thought when I read your post.
Yet he is a starter on a team in the national championship and we are saying he would t play for us. Interesting
no, you used them because they didn't work out. Monday morning QBing. And to counter I gave you a guy who was rated way lower than either of them, who became a 2 time NPOY and led PU to an NC appearance. OG, Vic and Juwann were in similar territory to Gunn and Banks; shouldn't have recruited them either? I get that the landscape has changed, but I think that for a team like IU it's still going to be valuable to recruit HS kids, and the portal. Primarily top 100 guys yes, but even on an exception basis, guys you believe can help or have a high ceiling and were overlooked. If we cast our lot to the portal every year, some years will be OK or good, but sometimes you're going to hit a clinker like last year where the parts don't mesh and it's bad and I think that's going to happen way more often than if we have a multi-tiered approach. Heck, it's kind of a moot point: just look at what UCONN's doing and do that. BTW, they have 3 HS commits, including McNeeley, but 2 other 4 star kids. So, that is a mistake, or are you just going to wait a few years and claim it was a mistake if some of those kids don't work?
It’s about building a team…IU has individual talent. It no team. Loyer fits on good teams and has a role.
Style... and I didn't say he wouldn't play for us. I said he would not be a good shooter for us.
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They've played alongside a generational talent and arguably the most dominant college basketball player in the last 30-40 years for the past two seasons. If you don't understand that I'm not sure what else to tell you. Loyer can't create his own shot or defend to save his life. And if you're asking if I thought the staff should have recruited Smith over Hood-Schifino, the answer is hell no every single time. I think both Smith and Loyer have maxed out their abilities at this level of basketball, except they won't be playing with a generational giant the next two seasons.
