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What does “leader of the free world” mean these days?

CO. Hoosier

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Germany, Switzerland, Sweden, and Finland have all broken with long standing historical doctrine and took firm anti-Putin positions. The USA? We don’t even seem to be an effective cheerleader.

What Putin is doing to Ukraine is unspeakably awful. Civilians are now being slaughtered, apparently deliberately. Our foreign policy brain trust is cloistered behind a wall of silence.. Biden sends Jen Psaki to the Sunday Show to talk about this? Biden was in his weekend basement and lord knows where Harris is. The rest of the free world is way ahead of us on this, taking taking risks, and changing history. The USA? Shamefully we are stuck on climate change dogma, lukewarm sanctions riddled with loopholes, and ‘we stand by Ukraine” platitudes.
 
Germany, Switzerland, Sweden, and Finland have all broken with long standing historical doctrine and took firm anti-Putin positions. The USA? We don’t even seem to be an effective cheerleader.

What Putin is doing to Ukraine is unspeakably awful. Civilians are now being slaughtered, apparently deliberately. Our foreign policy brain trust is cloistered behind a wall of silence.. Biden sends Jen Psaki to the Sunday Show to talk about this? Biden was in his weekend basement and lord knows where Harris is. The rest of the free world is way ahead of us on this, taking taking risks, and changing history. The USA? Shamefully we are stuck on climate change dogma, lukewarm sanctions riddled with loopholes, and ‘we stand by Ukraine” platitudes.
First, you must define "free" and "free world."

Second, this is first and foremost a European problem. I see no issue with Europeans taking the lead on a European problem. In fact, it strikes me as quite logical.

Third, I'm not sure what other steps we can take besides the sanctions already enacted. I would have preferred enacting stiffer sanctions prior to the invasion, but that ship has sailed.

If anything, I find the cheerleading to be the extreme from various chest thumping politicians. Too boastful and threatening.
 
Germany, Switzerland, Sweden, and Finland have all broken with long standing historical doctrine and took firm anti-Putin positions. The USA? We don’t even seem to be an effective cheerleader.

What Putin is doing to Ukraine is unspeakably awful. Civilians are now being slaughtered, apparently deliberately. Our foreign policy brain trust is cloistered behind a wall of silence.. Biden sends Jen Psaki to the Sunday Show to talk about this? Biden was in his weekend basement and lord knows where Harris is. The rest of the free world is way ahead of us on this, taking taking risks, and changing history. The USA? Shamefully we are stuck on climate change dogma, lukewarm sanctions riddled with loopholes, and ‘we stand by Ukraine” platitudes.
“Leader of the free world” in this case meant publishing American intelligence to the world exposing Putin‘s plan in advance so that virtually instantly after Putin invaded Ukraine, for the first time ever, the world actually united in executing at least four series of economic sanctions in the first week, followed by humanitarian and military promises that will soon begin arriving at the border of Ukraine from European countries and the United States.

It’s remarkable you have such a negative view of what the Biden administration achieved here because what they achieved is unprecedented and likely will preserve Ukraine as a sovereign nation now or in the near future.

Furthermore this achievement sets a precedent for future tyrannical invasions, such as China invading Taiwan. The world wants peace and they are learning how to achieve it with the leader of the free world leading from the front.

Thanks for asking.
 
First, you must define "free" and "free world."

Second, this is first and foremost a European problem. I see no issue with Europeans taking the lead on a European problem. In fact, it strikes me as quite logical.

Third, I'm not sure what other steps we can take besides the sanctions already enacted. I would have preferred enacting stiffer sanctions prior to the invasion, but that ship has sailed.

If anything, I find the cheerleading to be the extreme from various chest thumping politicians. Too boastful and threatening.
I don’t think the phrase ”leader of the free world” means what it used to. It might not even be a useful framework. Back in the days of the Cold War, the division implied by phrases like the “free world” meant something. Now globalization and entanglements generated by such things as Russian energy fuzz up the easy distinctions of the past. There is no question that Biden could take more servere and meaningful anti-Putin action, but he thinks he is limited by other considerations. And Biden was Obama’s guy in Ukraine. What role does that play? On the other hand Germany, Switzerland, Finland, and Sweden don't see such limitations and they each show leadership. Hell, Switzerland and Sweden didn’t even take sides against Hitler, now look. And Germany? What a quick, remarkable and complete about face for them.

I keep thinking about our strong action taken when Iraq invaded Kuwait. The firm US leadership then is remarkably different from our luke-warm response today and I wonder what’s changed. Is it because Russia has nukes and Putin has a button? Maybe. If so, then why did Biden take his knee off of Iran’s neck? Inexplicable.
 
“Leader of the free world” in this case meant publishing American intelligence to the world exposing Putin‘s plan in advance so that virtually instantly after Putin invaded Ukraine, for the first time ever, the world actually united in executing at least four series of economic sanctions in the first week, followed by humanitarian and military promises that will soon begin arriving at the border of Ukraine from European countries and the United States.

It’s remarkable you have such a negative view of what the Biden administration achieved here because what they achieved is unprecedented and likely will preserve Ukraine as a sovereign nation now or in the near future.

Furthermore this achievement sets a precedent for future tyrannical invasions, such as China invading Taiwan. The world wants peace and they are learning how to achieve it with the leader of the free world leading from the front.

Thanks for asking.
What Russia are you watching? Crude oil and NG is the currency of power. Biden refuses to use our currency while boosting Putin’s. Biden and his reps say that they are trying to wean the US off of that energy, yet we still buy Putin’s crude and beg the Arabs to increase production. Meanwhile Germany!
 
Anti American? New York City, Chicago, Portland, San Fran, LA, Seattle and many more including INDY all democrat run 3rd world sh!tholes that you all voted for. Not Pubs, stupid democrats voted for these people that led you down some trail only to take your money and leave you with a f*cking hellhole.
As a resident of the Mile Square, I can 100% say you are full of shit. There is no way you conservatives have enough room under your beds for all your boogeyman you are constantly crying and crapping your Depends about on here.
Stop experiencing your world through your right wing computer screen, Indianawtf. It's not that scary out here.
 
As a resident of the Mile Square, I can 100% say you are full of shit. There is no way you conservatives have enough room under your beds for all your boogeyman you are constantly crying and crapping your Depends about on here.
Stop experiencing your world through your right wing computer screen, Indianawtf. It's not that scary out here.


 
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On the other hand Germany, Switzerland, Finland, and Sweden don't see such limitations and they each show leadership. Hell, Switzerland and Sweden didn’t even take side
Damn you have great connections, you know for a 100% FACT there has been no US diplomatic pressure on any of these countries.

I know many believe diplomacy happens only in public while boasting about oneself, but real diplomacy happens quitely in back rooms.
 
What Russia are you watching? Crude oil and NG is the currency of power. Biden refuses to use our currency while boosting Putin’s. Biden and his reps say that they are trying to wean the US off of that energy, yet we still buy Putin’s crude and beg the Arabs to increase production. Meanwhile Germany!
POTUS’ correctly prioritizes the interests of American citizens and as a leader is always focused on the future. Present and future interests are always a balancing act and in the case of energy that’s a balance between coal, natural gas, oil, renewable energies. Even diplomacy with Putin and Russia is a balancing act between present and future. The world hopes for a sane Russia in the future while dealing with an insane Putin in the present. That affects politics, diplomacy, and economic factors. The current reality is what it is and the economic sanctions levied so far are intended to cause minimal damage to the world economy while pressuring Putin to back off. Clearly Putin isn’t backing off so new Sanctions are probably around the corner. The Biden administration is very much taking the lead in all of this.

Are you harkening back to the days of coal mines? Does anyone in your family have black lung disease? Are you hyperventilating about natural gas and fracking? Have you experienced increased earthquakes in your area undermining the foundation of your house?

There are pros and cons to everything just as there are present and future considerations.
 
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POTUS’ correctly prioritizes the interests of American citizens and as a leader is always focused on the future. Present and future interests are always a balancing act and in the case of energy that’s a balance between coal, natural gas, oil, renewable energies. Even diplomacy with Putin and Russia is a balancing act between present and future. The world hopes for a sane Russia in the future while dealing with an insane Putin in the present. That affects politics, diplomacy, and economic factors. The current reality is what it is and the economic sanctions levied so far are intended to cause minimal damage to the world economy while pressuring Putin to back off. Clearly Putin isn’t backing off so new Sanctions are probably around the corner. The Biden administration is very much taking the lead in all of this.

Are you harkening back to the days of coal mines? Does anyone in your family have black lung disease? Are you hyperventilating about natural gas and fracking? Have you experienced increased earthquakes in your area undermining the foundation of your house?

There are pros and cons to everything just as there are present and future considerations.
I also think we, collectively, need to appreciate the extremely thin line our leaders have to toe here, supporting an underdog nation without starting a nuclear war.

We could thump our chests and say if you do X, we’re coming in. But if you say it, you have to mean it. Us and the rest of the world just aren’t there yet.

We hear tons of bitching, but I’d love to hear some alternative ideas floated so people can discuss. Because if all someone is doing is complaining without offering an alternative then they’re not a serious person in a serious time.
 
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I also think we, collectively, need to appreciate the extremely thin line our leaders have to toe here, supporting an underdog nation without starting a nuclear war.

We could thump our chests and say if you do X, we’re coming in. But if you say it, you have to mean it. Us and the rest of the world just aren’t there yet.

We hear tons of bitching, but I’d love to hear some alternative ideas floated so people can discuss. Because if all someone is doing is complaining without offering an alternative then they’re not a serious person in a serious time.
True enough. I could easily imagine Putin thinking he can get away with just one nuclear ICBM after which the world would immediately call a UN security council meeting to prevent escalation. Putin would count on the world swallowing the nuke and trying to prevent an all-out nuclear catastrophe.

My simple question is, do we have the wherewithal to erase Putin if push comes to shove? Space force and all you know?
 
Just pointing out how great things are. Quit trying to hide it. You wake up every damn day here and there's more killings and more od deaths. The news is sh!t every morning.
I wake up everyday and engage with my city. You should stay away, for the sake of your nerves. Continue to read about life and bitch and moan.
 
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POTUS’ correctly prioritizes the interests of American citizens and as a leader is always focused on the future. Present and future interests are always a balancing act and in the case of energy that’s a balance between coal, natural gas, oil, renewable energies. Even diplomacy with Putin and Russia is a balancing act between present and future. The world hopes for a sane Russia in the future while dealing with an insane Putin in the present. That affects politics, diplomacy, and economic factors. The current reality is what it is and the economic sanctions levied so far are intended to cause minimal damage to the world economy while pressuring Putin to back off. Clearly Putin isn’t backing off so new Sanctions are probably around the corner. The Biden administration is very much taking the lead in all of this.

Are you harkening back to the days of coal mines? Does anyone in your family have black lung disease? Are you hyperventilating about natural gas and fracking? Have you experienced increased earthquakes in your area undermining the foundation of your house?

There are pros and cons to everything just as there are present and future considerations.
How far removed from reality are you? No wonder you have a comical Reaction Score. He prioritized the interests of the far left wing of his party. It resulted in a 37 percent approval rating and many of the problems we face today. That wasn't prioritizing the interests of American citizens. Most American citizens disapprove of him.

Let's hear his comments tonight as the world has changed. There will be calls going forward to back off climate concerns and make us more energy independent, to spend more on defense, things that are going to be loathsome to Dems, and in many respects justifiably. I hate spending a ton on defense too but again, the world has changed.

Your first sentence reads like my 5th grader wrote it for a school paper.
 
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How far removed from reality are you? No wonder you have a comical Reaction Score. He prioritized the interests of the far left wing of his party. It resulted in a 37 percent approval rating and many of the problems we face today. That wasn't prioritizing the interests of American citizens. Most American citizens disapprove of him.

Let's hear his comments tonight as the world has changed. There will be calls going forward to back off climate concerns and make us more energy independent, to spend more on defense, things that are going to be loathsome to Dems, and in many respects justifiably. I hate spending a ton on defense too but again, the world has changed.

How has the world changed? Russia is paying a steep price for her aggression. Far more than Hitler paid, or Stalin. Let's see how this plays out. If they take Ukraine and sanctions come off, sure, the world maybe has changed. But at this moment even Switzerland is involved, it might be fair to say the world has changed toward international cooperation.
 
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I wake up everyday and engage with my city. You should stay away, for the sake of your nerves. Continue to read about life and bitch and moan.
Good for you...I'm sick of kids getting shot and maimed. They ran a piece on it last night. It's awful, you engaging with that or the kids dying from drug od. My kids have been to too many funerals and deal with it all the time. All I can do is warn my kids not to do something stupid and make a mistake. Keep turning your cheek though and saying it's not a shithole because it is. I'm done arguing with you about it. I just listed 3 articles, yet here you are like the rest of the libs on this board DEFENDING it. Your sick!
 
I like what Fiona Hill has to say about why we find ourselves in this mess today:



If people look back to the history of World War II, there were an awful lot of people around Europe who became Nazi German sympathizers before the invasion of Poland. In the United Kingdom, there was a whole host of British politicians who admired Hitler’s strength and his power, for doing what Great Powers do, before the horrors of the Blitz and the Holocaust finally penetrated.

Reynolds: And you see this now.

Hill: You totally see it. Unfortunately, we have politicians and public figures in the United States and around Europe who have embraced the idea that Russia was wronged by NATO and that Putin is a strong, powerful man and has the right to do what he’s doing: Because Ukraine is somehow not worthy of independence, because it’s either Russia’s historical lands or Ukrainians are Russians, or the Ukrainian leaders are — this is what Putin says — “drug addled, fascist Nazis” or whatever labels he wants to apply here.

So sadly, we are treading back through old historical patterns that we said that we would never permit to happen again. The other thing to think about in this larger historic context is how much the German business community helped facilitate the rise of Hitler. Right now, everyone who has been doing business in Russia or buying Russian gas and oil has contributed to Putin’s war chest. Our investments are not just boosting business profits, or Russia’s sovereign wealth funds and its longer-term development. They now are literally the fuel for Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.
 
How has the world changed? Russia is paying a steep price for her aggression. Far more than Hitler paid, or Stalin. Let's see how this plays out. If they take Ukraine and sanctions come off, sure, the world maybe has changed. But at this moment even Switzerland is involved, it might be fair to say the world has changed toward international cooperation.
I don't think it has much to do with sanctions etc. long-term. It has to do imo how we perceived the world, how we perceived risk re Putin, and China really, and how we and Europe invest and do business. Together we are funding this war. I trust we will have to re-evaluate the readiness of our own military. Our own military funding - as will Germany and other nations. Is there a defense system that will protect us from mad men? Bill's article above is frightening. Where we obtain gas, how we produce it, as will European nations. Where we obtain goods. How much we manufacture. Hell even climate matters. I was listening to Kerry talk the other day about climate and Putin. Never heard someone so removed from reality. Putin clearly isn't concerning himself with climate issues. What it would/will take to become more independent on all fronts. On and on
 
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Good for you...I'm sick of kids getting shot and maimed. They ran a piece on it last night. It's awful, you engaging with that or the kids dying from drug od. My kids have been to too many funerals and deal with it all the time. All I can do is warn my kids not to do something stupid and make a mistake. Keep turning your cheek though and saying it's not a shithole because it is. I'm done arguing with you about it. I just listed 3 articles, yet here you are like the rest of the libs on this board DEFENDING it. Your sick!
It's "you're", genius.

Oh, and once again, you are full of shit. The only contact you have with any of the cities you listed is through the internet.
Stop living in virtual reality. Reality is much more rewarding. And stop acting like you give a shit about kids getting shot in Indy, Chicago, or any other big city. It's just a talking point for you, and you use it to justify the shit in your Depends.
 
What Russia are you watching? Crude oil and NG is the currency of power. Biden refuses to use our currency while boosting Putin’s. Biden and his reps say that they are trying to wean the US off of that energy, yet we still buy Putin’s crude and beg the Arabs to increase production. Meanwhile Germany!

The West is following Biden's lead and is laying siege to Russia economically. Never before has any country been so isolated and so severed from the world economy (save for North Korea, and that's self inflicted). That's our currency.
 
The West is following Biden's lead and is laying siege to Russia economically. Never before has any country been so isolated and so severed from the world economy (save for North Korea, and that's self inflicted). That's our currency.
You're right, Biden is a wise experienced leader. The way he has promoted the free world cut off Russia financially is just amazing. If it cost a few dollars more to fight Global warming everyone should be glad to help. People you could sell that camper or boat and donate that money to the world food bank. You don't need those things to live. We need to pass the BBB plan.
 
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You're right, Biden is a wise experienced leader. The way he has promoted the free world cut off Russia financially is just amazing. If it cost a few dollars more to fight Global warming everyone should be glad to help. People you could sell that camper or boat and donate that money to the world food bank. You don't need those things to live. We need to pass the BBB plan.
Care to offer a counter strategy other than cutting them off from the world financially?

I'll hang up & listen....
 
Care to offer a counter strategy other than cutting them off from the world financially?

I'll hang up & listen....
We will have to wait for the State of the Union speech to find that out.I am positive President Biden has many options he can use.
 
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We will have to wait for the State of the Union speech to find that out.I am positive President Biden has many options he can use.
So that's a no, then? You don't have any original thoughts of your own beyond whatever Biden does sucks? Refreshing.
 
Germany, Switzerland, Sweden, and Finland have all broken with long standing historical doctrine and took firm anti-Putin positions. The USA? We don’t even seem to be an effective cheerleader.

What Putin is doing to Ukraine is unspeakably awful. Civilians are now being slaughtered, apparently deliberately. Our foreign policy brain trust is cloistered behind a wall of silence.. Biden sends Jen Psaki to the Sunday Show to talk about this? Biden was in his weekend basement and lord knows where Harris is. The rest of the free world is way ahead of us on this, taking taking risks, and changing history. The USA? Shamefully we are stuck on climate change dogma, lukewarm sanctions riddled with loopholes, and ‘we stand by Ukraine” platitudes.
LOTFW used to mean the POTUS. That started to fade under the Obama Administration and continued through trump and Biden to what we have today.

Today at best LOTWF means a handful of leaders of free nations. This is exactly what some envisioned back when we started apologizing for being American.

Hope it works out.
 
I don’t think the phrase ”leader of the free world” means what it used to. It might not even be a useful framework. Back in the days of the Cold War, the division implied by phrases like the “free world” meant something. Now globalization and entanglements generated by such things as Russian energy fuzz up the easy distinctions of the past. There is no question that Biden could take more servere and meaningful anti-Putin action, but he thinks he is limited by other considerations. And Biden was Obama’s guy in Ukraine. What role does that play? On the other hand Germany, Switzerland, Finland, and Sweden don't see such limitations and they each show leadership. Hell, Switzerland and Sweden didn’t even take sides against Hitler, now look. And Germany? What a quick, remarkable and complete about face for them.

I keep thinking about our strong action taken when Iraq invaded Kuwait. The firm US leadership then is remarkably different from our luke-warm response today and I wonder what’s changed. Is it because Russia has nukes and Putin has a button? Maybe. If so, then why did Biden take his knee off of Iran’s neck? Inexplicable.
You ask an interesting question, what has changed between our shock and awe invasion of Iraq and the current approach to Russia’s invasion of Ukraine? The obvious answer is, The former was a military solution and the latter is an economic solution.

A military solution has the appearance of being the right solution: crush force with overwhelming force. That’s a one-off solution that requires a lot of logistics, financial resources, and human resources usually. Usually accompanied by large numbers of casualties and refugees. It doesn’t necessarily prevent a similar occurrence in the future.

An economic solution, with vast international cooperation, can theoretically counteract the physical violence being perpetrated without firing a single return bullet. Furthermore, it sets the precedent for future such cooperations, making aggressors think twice before their incursions. And as we are seeing, the economic sanctions can be instant and relatively devastating if applied to the extreme, such as shutting entire nations off of Swift.

So the basic difference is old-fashioned versus New Age solutions.
 
LOTFW used to mean the POTUS. That started to fade under the Obama Administration and continued through trump and Biden to what we have today.

Today at best LOTWF means a handful of leaders of free nations. This is exactly what some envisioned back when we started apologizing for being American.

Hope it works out.
I would argue that the decline happened during the George W. Bush years when the rest of the free world began criticizing where America was going to a great deal. A leader without followers is just a guy taking a walk.
 
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I would argue that the decline happened during the George W. Bush years when the rest of the free world began criticizing where America was going to a great deal. A leader without followers is just a guy taking a walk.

GWB led the free world into Iraq. It makes sense that they're leery.
 
I would argue that the decline happened during the George W. Bush years when the rest of the free world began criticizing where America was going to a great deal. A leader without followers is just a guy taking a walk.
Well that certainly made the apologizing act of the next Admin more effective.
 
I like what Fiona Hill has to say about why we find ourselves in this mess today:



If people look back to the history of World War II, there were an awful lot of people around Europe who became Nazi German sympathizers before the invasion of Poland. In the United Kingdom, there was a whole host of British politicians who admired Hitler’s strength and his power, for doing what Great Powers do, before the horrors of the Blitz and the Holocaust finally penetrated.

Reynolds: And you see this now.

Hill: You totally see it. Unfortunately, we have politicians and public figures in the United States and around Europe who have embraced the idea that Russia was wronged by NATO and that Putin is a strong, powerful man and has the right to do what he’s doing: Because Ukraine is somehow not worthy of independence, because it’s either Russia’s historical lands or Ukrainians are Russians, or the Ukrainian leaders are — this is what Putin says — “drug addled, fascist Nazis” or whatever labels he wants to apply here.

So sadly, we are treading back through old historical patterns that we said that we would never permit to happen again. The other thing to think about in this larger historic context is how much the German business community helped facilitate the rise of Hitler. Right now, everyone who has been doing business in Russia or buying Russian gas and oil has contributed to Putin’s war chest. Our investments are not just boosting business profits, or Russia’s sovereign wealth funds and its longer-term development. They now are literally the fuel for Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.
I read that article and mostly agree. But she blames Trump for weakening NATO, or planning to, and that's just BS.

She needs to look at the last year and point to the cause of this - massive inputs to Putin's war chest because of increased energy prices. And that is all on Biden.
 
So that's a no, then? You don't have any original thoughts of your own beyond whatever Biden does sucks? Refreshing.
Never end a sentence with a preposition.

Asked and answered many, many times.

Yeah tell that to Russian while you're looking down his AK-47.
 
The West is following Biden's lead and is laying siege to Russia economically. Never before has any country been so isolated and so severed from the world economy (save for North Korea, and that's self inflicted). That's our currency.
The West is leading and Biden is following.

If Biden was any kind of a leader, he'd have slapped sanctions on Russia as soon as Putin started threatening Ukraine.

If Obama had been a leader, he'd have put sanctions on after 2014.

Trump is the only one who showed any leadership by shipping military aid to Ukraine and forcing NATO countries to strengthen their militaries and getting the US to energy independence.
 
LOTFW used to mean the POTUS. That started to fade under the Obama Administration and continued through trump and Biden to what we have today.

Today at best LOTWF means a handful of leaders of free nations. This is exactly what some envisioned back when we started apologizing for being American.

Hope it works out.
Obama didn’t apologize for being American. That’s an absurd caricature of the truth. Obama spoke to 1 billion Muslims from Egypt. That’s the leader of the free world speaking to entire nations that weren’t fully part of the free world, to put it mildly.

I think your and COH’s definition of leader of the free world alloys the purest definition. You tell me but it seems like you’re adding something like American exceptionalism. Our founders had no such addition.

Free means free for all people with inalienable rights. The free world is represented by those principles, dreams, and visions. POTUS is still TLOFW because more or less all people on planet earth carry the belief that America is the beacon on the hill for freedom despite all our warts and flaws.

And addressing our warts and flaws in the process of creating a more perfect union does not mean we are apologizing for being American. The exact opposite is the truth. We Americans are free and thus have the strength and courage to apologize for our warts and flaws and set about correcting them and making them better. Those who are afraid to apologize are The same ones who lack the courage to create a more perfect union.
 
I would argue that the decline happened during the George W. Bush years when the rest of the free world began criticizing where America was going to a great deal. A leader without followers is just a guy taking a walk.
Of course you would.
 
GWB led the free world into Iraq. It makes sense that they're leery.
You might want to check the US Congress and UN authorizations on the Iraq invasion before putting the blame on Bush.

Or our own intelligence agencies.
 
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