Voter suppression, white privilege, gun control, criminal justice reform and equity in one graph

[hoot1]

I’ve heard and read more than a few black people say something similar. . When asked about the extraordinary black on black crime in large cities, the response is along the lines of those deaths are just the ambient deaths they accept and live with. Gunfire is part of their environment like traffic noise. Am I being too white by believing that attitude is horrible? FWIW that comment comes from males--presumably single. Black females and parents might have a different view.

CoH, I have a hard time believing most Blacks living in dangerous neighborhoods with lots of guns and gun violence 'just "accept and live with" this reality?

Heck, as this commentary points out we should have some empathy for these people. The article in part has this to say,..

"Despite the limitations, gun death data are the most reliable type of gun violence data currently available – but gun deaths are only the tip of the iceberg of gun violence. Many more people are shot and survive their injuries, are shot at but not hit, or witness gun violence," the analysis reads. "Many experience gun violence in other ways, by living in impacted communities, losing loved ones to gun violence, or being threatened with a gun." ​

i know black families along with single older black folks who live in dangerous neighborhoods. They don't accept the problem but feel helpless in correcting the situation. To make matters worse, they don't trust the police or believe the community leaders will help them. The most frustrating part is that they don't have the financial resources to move into a safer neighborhood.

​

 

[mcmurtry66]

CoH, I have a hard time believing most Blacks living in dangerous neighborhoods with lots of guns and gun violence 'just "accept and live with" this reality?

Heck, as this commentary points out we should have some empathy for these people. The article in part has this to say,..

"Despite the limitations, gun death data are the most reliable type of gun violence data currently available – but gun deaths are only the tip of the iceberg of gun violence. Many more people are shot and survive their injuries, are shot at but not hit, or witness gun violence," the analysis reads. "Many experience gun violence in other ways, by living in impacted communities, losing loved ones to gun violence, or being threatened with a gun." ​

i know black families along with single older black folks who live in dangerous neighborhoods. They don't accept the problem but feel helpless in correcting the situation. To make matters worse, they don't trust the police or believe the community leaders will help them. The most frustrating part is that they don't have the financial resources to move into a safer neighborhood.

​

Agree with a lot of this Hoot but the "don't trust the police" claims aren't universal. most of the high crime areas in saint louis are policed by black police who have excellent relationships with the residents. the problem is there aren't enough police. these neighborhoods are bombed out with vacant homes/and or are situated in such a way that they don't allow for beat cops. the cops have to drive and there aren't enough of them. saint louis city right now has something like 150 open spots for cops in the city that they literally cannot fill. not a lot of folks are amped to be a cop right now

 

[NPT]

I would disagree with police officers having them outside of SWAT / HRT teams. I’m also a responsible gun owner but there are no merits to private ownership of infantry rifles.

The only reason a lot of people own one is because they just like guns and collect guns like someone else might collect flashlights or something else. I used to know a couple people that owned one but they had never shot them and didn't even have any ammunition for them.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

CoH, I have a hard time believing most Blacks living in dangerous neighborhoods with lots of guns and gun violence 'just "accept and live with" this reality?

Heck, as this commentary points out we should have some empathy for these people. The article in part has this to say,..

"Despite the limitations, gun death data are the most reliable type of gun violence data currently available – but gun deaths are only the tip of the iceberg of gun violence. Many more people are shot and survive their injuries, are shot at but not hit, or witness gun violence," the analysis reads. "Many experience gun violence in other ways, by living in impacted communities, losing loved ones to gun violence, or being threatened with a gun." ​

i know black families along with single older black folks who live in dangerous neighborhoods. They don't accept the problem but feel helpless in correcting the situation. To make matters worse, they don't trust the police or believe the community leaders will help them. The most frustrating part is that they don't have the financial resources to move into a safer neighborhood.

​

I didn’t mean to imply that most Blacks accept the violence. But I think most of those who are very active in BLM’s anti-cop movement would offer that as an excuse as to why there is not more, or any, protests about Black on Black shootings.

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

The only reason a lot of people own one is because they just like guns and collect guns like someone else might collect flashlights or something else. I used to know a couple people that owned one but they had never shot them and didn't even have any ammunition for them.

They should keep it a range then. And shoot it. It’s ridiculously fun.

 

[hoot1]

I didn’t mean to imply that most Blacks accept the violence. But I think most of those who are very active in BLM’s anti-cop movement would offer that as an excuse as to why there is not more, or any, protests about Black on Black shootings.

i wouldn't characterize the BLM as an entirely "anti cop" movement just because an estimated 15 -20 million whites and blacks participated in 2020 protests following alleged police killings.

I'd call the movement as a catchy motto (Black lives Matter) which attracted many protesters. Protesters which took to the streets to show outrage over what they had perceived as an unacceptable use of authority over people without clout.

We often look at events through a race or color perspective as the BLM motto does. This unfortunately overlooks that many of us saw a human being like ourselves under the knee of what looked like an uncaring power figure.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

i wouldn't characterize the BLM as an entirely "anti cop" movement just because an estimated 15 -20 million whites and blacks participated in 2020 protests following alleged police killings.

I'd call the movement as a catchy motto (Black lives Matter) which attracted many protesters. Protesters which took to the streets to show outrage over what they had perceived as an unacceptable use of authority over people without clout.

We often look at events through a race or color perspective as the BLM motto does. This unfortunately overlooks that many of us saw a human being like ourselves under the knee of what looked like an uncaring power figure.

Your point would have more credibility if marchers didn’t abuse and insult Black cops, didn’t think the blue lives matter flag was a racist symbol, and didn’t demand contrition for saying “all lives matter.”

Do black lives matter? The answer is “of course they do.” But I think we both know that answer is incomplete at best and belligerent at worst.

 

[hoot1]

Your point would have more credibility if marchers didn’t abuse and insult Black cops, didn’t think the blue lives matter flag was a racist symbol, and didn’t demand contrition for saying “all lives matter.”

Do black lives matter? The answer is “of course they do.” But I think we both know that answer is incomplete at best and belligerent at worst.

Good points.

My preference would have been, "Black lives matter too".

As to Black police officers, given the power and ability to misuse this power without being held accountable, why would Black officers behave differently than White policemen even when the victim shares their skin color.

My point, which I am apparently having difficulty explaining, is that we frame too many issues in terms of race when the issue can be other things such as abuse of authority or as a failure to see others simply as fellow human beings which deserve respect.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Good points.

My preference would have been, "Black lives matter too".

As to Black police officers, given the power and ability to misuse this power without being held accountable, why would Black officers behave differently than White policemen even when the victim shares their skin color.

My point, which I am apparently having difficulty explaining, is that we frame too many issues in terms of race when the issue can be other things such as abuse of authority or as a failure to see others simply as fellow human beings which deserve respect.

I think the point that cops regularly abuse their authority without accountability is a falsehood that is given the trappings of legitimacy for political purposes. We are seeing the results of years of anti-police rhetoric and public action in increasing violence and murder rates in many cities. The public is being conditioned to see cops as authoritarian thugs and resistance, including armed resistance, is a “right”.

 

[NPT]

I didn’t mean to imply that most Blacks accept the violence. But I think most of those who are very active in BLM’s anti-cop movement would offer that as an excuse as to why there is not more, or any, protests about Black on Black shootin

They should keep it a range then. And shoot it. It’s ridiculously fun.

I agree about keeping it in a range. I've never shot one so I don't know about that but I do like to shoot guns.

 

[hoot1]

I think the point that cops regularly abuse their authority without accountability is a falsehood that is given the trappings of legitimacy for political purposes. We are seeing the results of years of anti-police rhetoric and public action in increasing violence and murder rates in many cities. The public is being conditioned to see cops as authoritarian thugs and resistance, including armed resistance, is a “right”.

CoH, my research reveals police shootings are a rare event in practically all of the communities in the United States, Heck, most officers retire without ever firing a weapon. So you are right in saying "the point that cops regularly abuse their authority without accountability is a falsehood"

All i am saying is that abuse of authority without accountability does happen, Furthermore without accountability the extent of the abuse really isn't known. Your guess is as good as mine.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

CoH, my research reveals police shootings are a rare event in practically all of the communities in the United States, Heck, most officers retire without ever firing a weapon. So you are right in saying "the point that cops regularly abuse their authority without accountability is a falsehood"

All i am saying is that abuse of authority without accountability does happen, Furthermore without accountability the extent of the abuse really isn't known. Your guess is as good as mine.

Abuse of authority is on the increase at all levels of all government, from the local building inspector, to congress, to the judicial branch and to the executive. The cops might feel more personal, but other abuse is more dangerous.

 

[hoot1]

Abuse of authority is on the increase at all levels of all government, from the local building inspector, to congress, to the judicial branch and to the executive. The cops might feel more personal, but other abuse is more dangerous.

CoH, you might not agree, but I think the loss of local newspapers and decline in the investigative press nationally contributes to the corruption to which you refer.

 

[Hoopsdoc1978]

I agree about keeping it in a range. I've never shot one so I don't know about that but I do like to shoot guns.

They are unbelievably fun to shoot.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

CoH, you might not agree, but I think the loss of local newspapers and decline in the investigative press nationally contributes to the corruption to which you refer.

I do agree and I think the lack of serious press coverage is a big problem.

 

[vesuvius13]

The focus on assault weapons isn't intended to stop American gun violence. It's intended to target a very specific type of violence which, while a relatively small portion of the whole, is invariably tragic and wholly avoidable.

The AR-15 isn't really an assault weapon just named that by the dems/left. It is a single shot [one trigger pull one shot] rifle like hunting rifles. It doesn't have ammo that is used for combat nor automatic fire like combat assault guns have. The real problem are the people that commit killings with the AR15 not the rifle itself. Focus on the people that commit atrocities with it we could reduce the numbers even more.

 

[vesuvius13]

I would disagree with police officers having them outside of SWAT / HRT teams. I’m also a responsible gun owner but there are no merits to private ownership of infantry rifles.

The AR15 isn't an infantry rifle but one with only single fire. It also doesn't shoot the high powered rounds the military uses in combat. There is a lot of misinformation out there on this rifle because too many think AR stands for automatic rifle; I am not saying you but many do.

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

The AR15 isn't an infantry rifle but one with only single fire. It also doesn't shoot the high powered rounds the military uses in combat. There is a lot of misinformation out there on this rifle because too many think AR stands for automatic rifle; I am not saying you but many do.

Infantrymen don’t use the burst mode in the M4/M16. It’s worthless. The manuals (when I was in) call for the first person in to spray on burst but good luck not catching a war crime doing that. Thus, with the type of round it fires and at high accuracy in semi auto mode, it is a de facto infantry rifle.

Any 0.223 Remington or 5.56mm - 45 round is analogous to what infantrymen carry and shoot with high lethality rates. Many of these AR15s are capable of firing such rounds and the public has access to them. So I don’t follow that point.

 

[UncleMark]

Abuse of authority is on the increase at all levels of all government, from the local building inspector, to congress, to the judicial branch and to the executive. The cops might feel more personal, but other abuse is more dangerous.

Interesting assertion. Care to flesh it out with some data? Or is this just another one of your diversionary proclamations?

 

[Joe_Hoopsier]

I wonder if this could help all of those suppressed voters who can't make it to the polls?

 

[mushroomgod_1]

It is interesting to point out that there is a huge problem with homicide in the Black community and argue that longstanding systemic racism absolutely plays no role in it. So welfare alone has created this problem?

Very probably, that and culture. I doubt that before the '60s black on black violence in cities was much worse than white on white crime in the cities.