Un-Taxing Tipped wages

[TMFT]

Has anyone seen any policy language on this idea?

I'm curious because I've got questions:

1) The tip/gig economy has gotten huge. Presumably this would significantly shrink the tax base. Maybe not a huge deal because most people working for tips probably aren't in the cohort that pays net federal taxes?
2) Is it only talking about income tax or is it FICA too? A lot of people would see their social security statement wrecked if it's the latter.
3) Would it be a new box on the W2 that is declared but exempt or would it just not be defined as income? If the latter, then, theoretically, your mom could make 6 figures at the strip club but still qualify for all the income-based welfare because it would be in tips.....glittery tips.
4) Piggybacking off of #3, if it's the new box on W2 and people actually DO declare them, it could end up being a boon for state/local income taxes because tipped wages are woefully under-reported.
5) Is the idea being taken seriously by anyone in Congress or is it just one of those election year things?

 

[Joe_Hoopsier]

glittery tips

Nuff Said !!!

 

[ChicagoFineForNow]

There is no detailed policy behind it. It's a campaign slogan, maybe he'll dive into the details if he wins.

 

[larsIU]

maybe he'll dive into the details if he wins.

 

[ChicagoFineForNow]

I didn't mean him personally. Whoever he tasks with it.

 

[larsIU]

I didn't mean him personally. Whoever he tasks with it.

Why not just increase the standard deduction? Easier for the IRS to manage/enforce.

 

[shouldhavebeenLars]

Avoid paying as much tax as you can.

Other than the civil war we didn't have an income tax until 1913. Stop paying if you don't have to.

 

[ChicagoFineForNow]

Avoid paying as much tax as you can.

Other than the civil war we didn't have an income tax until 1913. Stop paying if you don't have to.

Around the same time they started making Senators be popularly elected. It truly was the beginning of the end for America.

 

[shouldhavebeenLars]

Around the same time they started making Senators be popularly elected. It truly was the beginning of the end for America.

Yeah, most people don't know that State Senate's used to appoint Senators.

The Senate is supposed to represent States. Part of the checks and balances. Democrats hate it. It's why they wanted direct election of senators and why they want the Senate tied to population.

 

[ChicagoFineForNow]

Yeah, most people don't know that State Senate's used to appoint Senators.

The Senate is supposed to represent States. Part of the checks and balances. Democrats hate it. It's why they wanted direct election of senators and why they want the Senate tied to population.

Democrats, most of them at least, have zero understanding of our founding doctrine and the founders vision for the country. They believe "Democracy" is the goal in and of itself rather than a tool to used judiciously in forming a representative government.

We were never meant to be an imperial superpower that held the rest of the civilized world under their protection. Our founders knew that Europe was ****ed and would always fight amongst themselves and wanted us to stay out of it.

 

[BradStevens]

Democrats, most of them at least, have zero understanding of our founding doctrine and the founders vision for the country. They believe "Democracy" is the goal in and of itself rather than a tool to used judiciously in forming a representative government.

We were never meant to be an imperial superpower that held the rest of the civilized world under their protection. Our founders knew that Europe was ****ed and would always fight amongst themselves and wanted us to stay out of it.

Most people, regardless of party, have little deep understanding of the political or legal philosophy undergirding our Constitution.

Just as most people don’t appreciate that the world has changed, the US’s geopolitical position has changed, tech has changed, and so, too, must our governance.

These things don’t exist in a vacuum.

 

[ChicagoFineForNow]

Most people, regardless of party, have little deep understanding of the political or legal philosophy undergirding our Constitution.

Just as most people don’t appreciate that the world has changed, the US’s geopolitical position has changed, tech has changed, and so, too, must our governance.

These things don’t exist in a vacuum.

Yeah, I don't really believe that our governance must change.

I see us as antagonistic to Iran, Russia, China as they are to us. Maybe we turn down the temperature on the boiling pot.

If you're President Xi and the U.S. has military installations in Japan, Australia, Philipnes, Taiwan. Are you supposed to not feel threatened? How would we feel exactly if Chinese military installations started popping up in Mexico City, Cuba, Dominican Republic, Toronto?

China is an imperfect society, run by autocrats, they also don't want to go to war with us and war wont happen unless we make it happen.

 

[All4You]

Most people, regardless of party, have little deep understanding of the political or legal philosophy undergirding our Constitution.

Just as most people don’t appreciate that the world has changed, the US’s geopolitical position has changed, tech has changed, and so, too, must our governance.

These things don’t exist in a vacuum.

To be fair, there isn't much square footage in a Kirby Sweeper...

 

[WhyisIUBBcursed]

Has anyone seen any policy language on this idea?

I'm curious because I've got questions:

1) The tip/gig economy has gotten huge. Presumably this would significantly shrink the tax base. Maybe not a huge deal because most people working for tips probably aren't in the cohort that pays net federal taxes?
2) Is it only talking about income tax or is it FICA too? A lot of people would see their social security statement wrecked if it's the latter.
3) Would it be a new box on the W2 that is declared but exempt or would it just not be defined as income? If the latter, then, theoretically, your mom could make 6 figures at the strip club but still qualify for all the income-based welfare because it would be in tips.....glittery tips.
4) Piggybacking off of #3, if it's the new box on W2 and people actually DO declare them, it could end up being a boon for state/local income taxes because tipped wages are woefully under-reported.
5) Is the idea being taken seriously by anyone in Congress or is it just one of those election year things?

How many strippers are currently reporting their “tips”?

 

[DDE-6-20-23]

All I know is plagiarism is real with the democrat party. These people are like kids added onto child support hanging off your coat tails. WTF

This Kamala bitch said she was gonna go after tips with the IRS...NOW she is stealing Trumps thunder and saying no tax on tips.

Remember Joe taking away Trumps diabetic discount meds and then reinstating it while taking credit? These people need to be taken out to a shed and whipped!

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Piggybacking off of #3, if it's the new box on W2 and people actually DO declare them, it could end up being a boon for state/local income taxes because tipped wages are woefully under-reported.

It could also lead to stronger auto and home sales as more people become eligible for bigger loans.

 

[Joe_Hoopsier]

Avoid paying as much tax as you can.

Other than the civil war we didn't have an income tax until 1913. Stop paying if you don't have to.

It's exactly what DC swamp people do. Hell, they make the tax code, for themselves. There are no loops holes, there are only code and strategy that they already know.

 

[MyTeamIsOnTheFloor]

No President can do this on their own authority. Requires a statutory amendment.

Can we make candidates take a civics seminar or something?

 

[TMFT]

No President can do this on their own authority. Requires a statutory amendment.

Can we make candidates take a civics seminar or something?

I think it’s pretty well understood that these are policy proposals to send to Congress and not executive actions.

 

[VanPastorMan]

Has anyone seen any policy language on this idea?

I'm curious because I've got questions:

1) The tip/gig economy has gotten huge. Presumably this would significantly shrink the tax base. Maybe not a huge deal because most people working for tips probably aren't in the cohort that pays net federal taxes?
2) Is it only talking about income tax or is it FICA too? A lot of people would see their social security statement wrecked if it's the latter.
3) Would it be a new box on the W2 that is declared but exempt or would it just not be defined as income? If the latter, then, theoretically, your mom could make 6 figures at the strip club but still qualify for all the income-based welfare because it would be in tips.....glittery tips.
4) Piggybacking off of #3, if it's the new box on W2 and people actually DO declare them, it could end up being a boon for state/local income taxes because tipped wages are woefully under-reported.
5) Is the idea being taken seriously by anyone in Congress or is it just one of those election year things?

Trump brought this idea up first. What is it really if they did it? It is truly looking out for the little guy. That was supposed to be a Democratic idea. I guess I am implying Harris stole it from Trump. Now why did she do it? She saw people were reacting positively to it. I would argue that once she became President if she actually got this through and into law she would then go after other groups because the Democrats will NEVER cut spending. They will have to in their minds find another Peter out there so they can pay Paul. Or she might once getting power decide, "we can't do the tax plan on tips, but we tried so hard to make it work". Clinton did that in his first term. He promised a middle class tax cut, but it was just too harddddd.

 

[DDE-6-20-23]

THE LEFT

 

[Marvin the Martian]

It is a terribly stupid idea. I saw a story that The Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget estimates $100-$250 billion in lost tax revenue over a decade. That's a lot (or for Aloha, alot). And if we exclude it from payroll taxes, Social Security and Medicare are completely screwed.

But everyone wants to win Nevada. And some of those people in Nevada makes pretty good money in tips, they aren't the struggling waitress.

How long until Tim Cook claims Apple pays him $1 in salary and a WHOLE lot in tips?

 

[MyTeamIsOnTheFloor]

I think it’s pretty well understood that these are policy proposals to send to Congress and not executive actions.

Yeah, I’m sure they explained that in their stump speeches. Thorough accuracy is the hallmark of political communication these days.

Did they report on how many votes their proposals could get in the House and Senate? Or just pucker?

 

[TMFT]

It is a terribly stupid idea. I saw a story that The Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget estimates $100-$250 billion in lost tax revenue over a decade. That's a lot (or for Aloha, alot). And if we exclude it from payroll taxes, Social Security and Medicare are completely screwed.

But everyone wants to win Nevada. And some of those people in Nevada makes pretty good money in tips, they aren't the struggling waitress.

How long until Tim Cook claims Apple pays him $1 in salary and a WHOLE lot in tips?

That's generally my thought process too.

I don't see how this ends up being remotely fiscally responsible. Particularly when the people it's ostensibly looking out for by-and-large DON'T pay net federal income taxes anyway.

 

[TMFT]

Yeah, I’m sure they explained that in their stump speeches. Thorough accuracy is the hallmark of political communication these days.

Did they report on how many votes their proposals could get in the House and Senate? Or just pucker?

Oh, I agree that it's a lot more bluster than seriousness.

But I don't think it's any different than anything I've seen in my lifetime as far as promises from a presidential campaign or State of the Union address.

 

[Bloom.]

Has anyone seen any policy language on this idea?

I'm curious because I've got questions:

1) The tip/gig economy has gotten huge. Presumably this would significantly shrink the tax base. Maybe not a huge deal because most people working for tips probably aren't in the cohort that pays net federal taxes?
2) Is it only talking about income tax or is it FICA too? A lot of people would see their social security statement wrecked if it's the latter.
3) Would it be a new box on the W2 that is declared but exempt or would it just not be defined as income? If the latter, then, theoretically, your mom could make 6 figures at the strip club but still qualify for all the income-based welfare because it would be in tips.....glittery tips.
4) Piggybacking off of #3, if it's the new box on W2 and people actually DO declare them, it could end up being a boon for state/local income taxes because tipped wages are woefully under-reported.
5) Is the idea being taken seriously by anyone in Congress or is it just one of those election year things?

It's a ploy for the most part, but watching Trump and his supporters come unglued that Harris is now talking about it has been fun. We're still waiting for Trump's infrastructure bill. To me this is pandering to the masses, knowing full well it's going to benefit their wealthy friends.

With more and more tips being electronic of nature there are tax implications. However, not sure how much tax is lost on taxes that weren't collected regularly in the past. The problem with removing tips as a tax, they would have define what is a tip and what isn't.

Would commissions be consider tips? An all commission business, such as real estate, would welcome such a question being answered.

 

[Bloom.]

THE LEFT

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He's allowed to change his mind. He's not a Republican.

 

[Bloom.]

Trump brought this idea up first. What is it really if they did it? It is truly looking out for the little guy. That was supposed to be a Democratic idea. I guess I am implying Harris stole it from Trump. Now why did she do it? She saw people were reacting positively to it. I would argue that once she became President if she actually got this through and into law she would then go after other groups because the Democrats will NEVER cut spending. They will have to in their minds find another Peter out there so they can pay Paul. Or she might once getting power decide, "we can't do the tax plan on tips, but we tried so hard to make it work". Clinton did that in his first term. He promised a middle class tax cut, but it was just too harddddd.

Political ideas aren't copyrighted.

Democrats never cut spending? Have you paid attention since 1980?

 

[Bloom.]

How many strippers are currently reporting their “tips”?

I know of no one who reports cash earnings.

 

[WhyisIUBBcursed]

I know of no one who reports cash earnings.

Exactly. Much ado about nothing

 

[VanPastorMan]

Political ideas aren't copyrighted.

Democrats never cut spending? Have you paid attention since 1980?

Oh, they cut military spending. You are right.

 

[Bloom.]

Oh, they cut military spending. You are right.

Wasn't my point. We're going to pretend that the GOP cuts spending?

That said, the military budget is bloated.

t's a large problem on both sides. Trying to single one party is laughable.

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

Wasn't my point. We're going to pretend that the GOP cuts spending?

That said, the military budget is bloated.

t's a large problem on both sides. Trying to single one party is laughable.

While I agree, it’s more of a problem on one side than it is the other.

It’s not a coincidence that red state governments tend to have smaller budgets than blue state governments.

I remember during the sequestration fight back in the Obama years, the admin put defense spending on the cutting table, believing that it would prevent Republican legislators from letting the cuts kick in.

Republican legislators let the cuts kick in. And I got some brief satisfaction out of it. Because there’s no reason defense spending should be a sacred cow.

That said, it’s not our chief fiscal problem. The growth of entitlement spending is.

 

[Hoopsdoc1978]

Wasn’t there a thread on this when Trump originally brought it up?

I thought there was but I looked and couldn’t find it.

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

While I agree, it’s more of a problem on one side than it is the other.

It’s not a coincidence that red state governments tend to have smaller budgets than blue state governments.

I remember during the sequestration fight back in the Obama years, the admin put defense spending on the cutting table, believing that it would prevent Republican legislators from letting the cuts kick in.

Republican legislators let the cuts kick in. And I got some brief satisfaction out of it. Because there’s no reason defense spending should be a sacred cow.

That said, it’s not our chief fiscal problem. The growth of entitlement spending is.

Here’s why: defense spending (as % GDP) has largely been flat for a while…after having shrunk a good amount.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

It’s not a coincidence that red state governments tend to have smaller budgets than blue state governments

Surprisingly not true. Looking at the wiki, it's hard to find any relationship between state budgets and politically persuasion.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._state_budgets&ved=2ahUKEwjuwMWE2vKHAxXv4MkDHejmNH4QFnoECBgQBQ&usg=AOvVaw3do-4XhBwP4mvg_sfLy6d9

 

[TMFT]

Surprisingly not true. Looking at the wiki, it's hard to find any relationship between state budgets and politically persuasion.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._state_budgets&ved=2ahUKEwjuwMWE2vKHAxXv4MkDHejmNH4QFnoECBgQBQ&usg=AOvVaw3do-4XhBwP4mvg_sfLy6d9

Wow, I can't believe Indiana spends as much per capita as those commies next door in Illinois.

 

[Joe_Hoopsier]

The fastest way to read a long thread, is to open one that Bloom posts multiple times in it. My screen looks like a slot machine at a Vegas gas station.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Surprisingly not true. Looking at the wiki, it's hard to find any relationship between state budgets and politically persuasion.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._state_budgets&ved=2ahUKEwjuwMWE2vKHAxXv4MkDHejmNH4QFnoECBgQBQ&usg=AOvVaw3do-4XhBwP4mvg_sfLy6d9

I assume there is a huge cost in North Dakota to plow one thousand miles of highway per person, because nothing else makes sense. I thought Alaska would be first, there has to be a huge cost to providing police, fire, and ambulance, up there.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

I assume there is a huge cost in North Dakota to plow one thousand miles of highway per person, because nothing else makes sense. I thought Alaska would be first, there has to be a huge cost to providing police, fire, and ambulance, up there.

Upon further reflection, that list in the Wiki seems to be misleading, since it doesn't include local spending. Different states divide up the money between the state and local level in different ways. This link probably has a better overview.

State and Local Expenditures

www.urban.org