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Trump Zelensky today.....

The US loves to put rules on war that our enemies don't, which is why we don't win wars anymore.
I wouldn't be comfortable with certain actions that could lead to conflict between the US and Russia. The US could have ended this war in 5 minutes if the Russian sanctions were actually enforced. Instead our "ally" India got rich off of them. And the Euros kept buying the oil. The real issue imo is that the western public can't deal with 5 minutes of pain.
 
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All the Ukrainians joined the military freely? Also, no we shouldn't continue getting them killed if we don't think there is a very high probability they will win. It's a terrible thing to do to other humans.
They have a draft, just like we did until the early 70s.

Most do join freely there.

Did the N. Vietnamese have a high probability of victory when the Soviet Untion was financing them?

When 2 sides are at a stalemate, it's a waiting game to see who cracks first. Russia is slowly being bled and is having to bring in troops from other countries. If the US has enough fotitude to support Ukraine militarily, they can prevail.
 
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I wouldn't be comfortable with certain actions that could lead to conflict between the US and Russia. The US could have ended this war in 5 minutes if the Russian sanctions were actually enforced. Instead our "ally" India got rich off of them. And the Euros kept buying the oil. The real issue imo is that the western public can't deal with 5 minutes of pain.
Any war we would get into with Russia would be over quickly. We'll never invade Russia, but we can sure as hell kick them out of Ukraine if we wanted to.
 
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They have a draft, just like we did until the early 70s.

Most do join freely there.

Did the N. Vietnamese have a high probability of victory when the Soviet Untion was financing them?

When 2 sides are at a stalemate, it's a waiting game to see who cracks first. Russia is slowly being bled and is having to bring in troops from other countries. If the US has enough fotitude to support Ukraine militarily, they can prevail.
So, they're aren't all joining freely, correct?
 
When there's a draft, they're not all there freely.

So, if a small minority are drafted, that should shape our policy?
Yes, it should be a consideration. It's a lot easier for the U.S. government to print dollars to get a random 25 year old Ukrainian killed. The reality is were all totally detached from the war, which makes it a lot easier to fund and get people killed. Start drafting 25 year old Americans to fight in the war. See how quickly the war is over.
 
Schrodinger’s Putin. Simultaneously erratic and crazy enough to march through Ukraine and into NATO territory, but rational and predictable enough to not launch a nuke if he feels threatened.
I made a difference between Putin and his generals.

I know you don't equate invading Ukraine, which has no nuclear weapons, to firing off a nuke at the US, which does have them.
 
Yes, it should be a consideration. It's a lot easier for the U.S. government to print dollars to get a random 25 year old Ukrainian killed. The reality is were all totally detached from the war, which makes it a lot easier to fund and get people killed. Start drafting 25 year old Americans to fight in the war. See how quickly the war is over.
So when will we pull American troops out of Africa because, by fighting terrorism, they continue to kill each other?

Because we have them there.
 
It's strange. Before the war I got a lot of pushback from the MAGAs here when I pointed out the growing anti-Ukraine, pro-Russia, anti-NATO, isolationism sentiment in MAGA and the idea that they'd be happy with allowing Russia to occupy all of Ukraine. It was clear when MAGA congressmen delayed military aid to Ukraine for six long months (undoubtedly costing Ukrainian lives) that they'd do all they could to stop it all together after the election if they won. Now President Trump appears to be doing it for them and many here don't give a damn what happens to Ukraine. They'd be as happy to have a minerals deal with Russia in the former country of Ukraine (maybe happier) as they would with a free Ukraine.
Sometimes I don’t think we live on the same planet.

The Russian advance on Kiev was halted in large part by Trump-supplied Javelins . Those misiles were only meant for Russian tanks. (Obama-Biden provided non-military aid).

Biden withdrew our Navy from the Black Sea before the invasion, not Trump. I think Trump would have increased it.

Biden quashed the early F 16 Deal.

Biden slow- walked arms in the first months, not MAGA.

Biden showed zero European leadership at all times.

Trump sanctioned Nordstream II, Biden lifted those.

Biden was extremely passive aggressive. Every time Biden spoke he talked about what a bad guy Putin is. Everything Biden did was to show Putin his extreme passivity. Putin is no Dummy.

Trump schmoozes Putin like he does everyone, but he is extremely resourceful and aggressive in what he does.
 
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Sometimes I don’t think we live on the same planet.

The Russian advance on Kiev was halted in large part by Trump-supplied Javelins . Those misiles were only meant for Russian tanks. (Obama-Biden provided non-military aid).

Biden withdrew our Navy from the Black Sea before the invasion, not Trump. I think Trump would have increased it.

Biden quashed the early F 16 Deal.

Biden slow- walked arms in the first months, not MAGA.

Biden showed zero European leadership at all times.

Trump sanctioned Nordstream II, Biden lifted those.

Biden was extremely passive aggressive. Every time Biden spoke he talked about what a bad guy Putin is. Everything Biden did was to show Putin his extreme passivity. Putin is no Dummy.

Trump schmoozes Putin like he does everyone, but he is extremely resourceful and aggressive in what he does.

I think you are firmly living in fantasyland. not sure if that is considered on planet earth or not.

Obama provided non-lethal aid to Ukraine in hoping to not escalate.

Trump sold javelins which one could argue caused things to escalate. But then again, that would go counter to blaming Biden for Russia invading.

Biden didn't slow walk anything. He increased/continued assistance with lethal arms prior to Russia invading. Unless you tried to match serial numbers, you're splitting hairs on whose weaponry halted Russia's advance because both Trump and Biden had provided by that time.
 
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Sometimes I don’t think we live on the same planet.

The Russian advance on Kiev was halted in large part by Trump-supplied Javelins . Those misiles were only meant for Russian tanks. (Obama-Biden provided non-military aid).

Biden withdrew our Navy from the Black Sea before the invasion, not Trump. I think Trump would have increased it.

Biden quashed the early F 16 Deal.

Biden slow- walked arms in the first months, not MAGA.

Biden showed zero European leadership at all times.

Trump sanctioned Nordstream II, Biden lifted those.

Biden was extremely passive aggressive. Every time Biden spoke he talked about what a bad guy Putin is. Everything Biden did was to show Putin his extreme passivity. Putin is no Dummy.

Trump schmoozes Putin like he does everyone, but he is extremely resourceful and aggressive in what he does.
Not a word of that responds to what I posted.

I wasn’t addressing Biden’s shortcomings which also existed.
 
It's strange. Before the war I got a lot of pushback from the MAGAs here when I pointed out the growing anti-Ukraine, pro-Russia, anti-NATO, isolationism sentiment in MAGA and the idea that they'd be happy with allowing Russia to occupy all of Ukraine. It was clear when MAGA congressmen delayed military aid to Ukraine for six long months (undoubtedly costing Ukrainian lives) that they'd do all they could to stop it all together after the election if they won. Now President Trump appears to be doing it for them and many here don't give a damn what happens to Ukraine. They'd be as happy to have a minerals deal with Russia in the former country of Ukraine (maybe happier) as they would with a free Ukraine.
This is totally inaccurate, based only on attempting to apply personal partisan assumptions of another's thoughts to prove a well proven personal agenda as being correct.
Even the give a damn is nothing but a personal assumption of others reasons for being against a certain set of happenings. This was, as is expected, a total fail while you attempt to prove yourself correct........... in the rear view mirror. You still have learned nothing as we attempt to teach your transition to private life.

It may be too late. and that is sad.
 
This is totally inaccurate, based only on attempting to apply personal partisan assumptions of another's thoughts to prove a well proven personal agenda as being correct.
Even the give a damn is nothing but a personal assumption of others reasons for being against a certain set of happenings. This was, as is expected, a total fail while you attempt to prove yourself correct........... in the rear view mirror. You still have learned nothing as we attempt to teach your transition to private life.

It may be too late. and that is sad.
Wrong. It's absolutely accurate. It's playing out right in front of us. We've even had some of those posters say they do not care what happens to Ukraine in the past few days. I didn't say you were one of the faction that was anti-Ukraine, pro-Russia, anti-NATO and isolationist. You're not and I've noted it.
 
When there's a draft, they're not all there freely.

So, if a small minority are drafted, that should shape our policy?
Not any different than LGBT@%^@#%$^@%^@%$^@!^%^!#%&Y^!%$#Y&!%Y& .. The ultra extreme never form policy for the 99%. And that is on either extreme!
KKK , GFY
LGBT..... GFY
Just go live the freedoms that you have that are EQUAL to everyone else and stop the noise. Do that and we stop disliking your personal noise.
 
Wrong. It's absolutely accurate. It's playing out right in front of us. We've even had some of those posters say they do not care what happens to Ukraine in the past few days. I didn't say you were one of the faction that was anti-Ukraine, pro-Russia, anti-NATO and isolationist. You're not and I've noted it.
No, it’s wasn’t accurate. Where did Trump propose Russia can take all of Ukraine?
 
That’s not happening though.
I was in the sauna at my old gym a couple years ago and this guy walks in. Mid 20’s, perfectly healthy (not a gay story I promise), member of one of the more expensive health clubs in Chicago.

He starts talking and he’s got this thick Eastern European accent, I couldn’t place it.

“Where are you from” I ask?

“Ukraine”, he said.

Before I could even say anything.

“Yeah I got the hell out of there like 6 months ago, probably never going back”.

Stories of Ukrainian’s in recent years spending exorbitant amounts of money in Budapest, the Swiss Alps, all across Europe. They all seem to have a lot of dough.
 
No, it’s wasn’t accurate. Where did Trump propose Russia can take all of Ukraine?

Recently posted a Ukraine advisor to Zelensky warning him a hasty agreement with Russia to end the war could run the risk of a later invasion by Russia.

The scenario being NATO including the U.S. goes to sleep militarily over time and Russia rebuilds its military.

Final result being a successful invasion by Russia.

Democratic leaders such as Zelensky often focus on the short run and the next election. Autocratic leaders such as Putin have the luxury of thinking long term.
 
Wrong. It's absolutely accurate. It's playing out right in front of us. We've even had some of those posters say they do not care what happens to Ukraine in the past few days. I didn't say you were one of the faction that was anti-Ukraine, pro-Russia, anti-NATO and isolationist. You're not and I've noted it.
I get that you understand that I wan't the orc's out of Ukraine and ALMOST any cost, thank you for that!
But that fringe that you keep trying to use to justify your past comments, it like trying to justify LGBT because you once said that Rainbows are pretty.
Lets all stop pandering to this fringe shit. Fringe are hangey things on a leather biker jacket, NOT an agreed to political stance.
 
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There's nothing inherently wrong about what Vance said - but why was he lecturing Z? Z knows the history better than he does. Vance was insolent in his manner and butted in where he shouldn't have been. Marco should have been the one making the case.

And there was nothing wrong with what Z said in reply. He's right that Russia is not to be trusted and there is a long line of broken promises.

Z knows what it's like to try to be diplomatic with Russia and the results. Vance is a foreign policy neophyte and shouldn't be lecturing a head of state. As I've said before, Trump can speak for himself.

I realize people see things differently and I respect other's opinions. But as someone who has defended Trump often here, I can also disagree with him and his administration when I think he's wrong.


He was not lecturing Z. Vance DID NOT address Z with his immediate reply to the reporter. The video shows irrefutable proof Vance is looking directly at the reporter who asked Trump the question about the US being a force for good and Trump’s alignment with Putin.

Then, for some reason, Z decided to engage JD. Why did he engage JD? What did JD say that would prompt him to engage the VP instead of the President? Was he upset that he called out Biden for talking tough about Putin, but did nothing to bring peace? Was Z mad that JD pointed out the Trump wants to use diplomacy to bring peace? IDK. Whatever it was, he should have saved his concerns for a private conversation.

It was disrespectful to address the VP instead of the President. It was disrespectful (and stupid) to say to the VP and Pres that diplomacy, even Trump diplomacy, won't work with Putin. Putin can't be trusted. And to do it in the Pres office on TV.

Like I have said - it would be like Z telling Bob Knight in Assembly Hall, on national TV, that he isn't smart enough to beat a 2-3 zone . Not a good idea.
 
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... It was disrespectful (and stupid) to say to the VP and Pres that diplomacy, even Trump diplomacy, won't work with Putin. Putin can't be trusted.
Russia has broken 20 different negotiated agreements with Ukraine in the recent past.

If Oumar Ballo missed 20 free throws in a row, would it be disrespectful to ask the coach why the ball was in Ballo's hand while protecting a 1 point lead in the closing seconds?
 
He was not lecturing Z. Vance DID NOT address Z with his immediate reply to the reporter. The video shows irrefutable proof Vance is looking directly at the reporter who asked Trump the question about the US being a force for good and Trump’s alignment with Putin.

Then, for some reason, Z decided to engage JD. Why did he engage JD? What did JD say that would prompt him to engage the VP instead of the President? Was he upset that he called out Biden for talking tough about Putin, but did nothing to bring peace? Was Z mad that JD pointed out the Trump wants to use diplomacy to bring peace? IDK. Whatever it was, he should have saved his concerns for a private conversation.

It was disrespectful to address the VP instead of the President. It was disrespectful (and stupid) to say to the VP and Pres that diplomacy, even Trump diplomacy, won't work with Putin. Putin can't be trusted. And to do it in the Pres office on TV.

Like I have said - it would be like Z telling Bob Knight in Assembly Hall, on national TV, that he isn't smart enough to beat a 2-3 zone . Not a good idea.
Truly fascinating!
 
Russia has broken 20 different negotiated agreements with Ukraine in the recent past.

If Oumar Ballo missed 20 free throws in a row, would it be disrespectful to ask the coach why the ball was in Ballo's hand while protecting a 1 point lead in the closing seconds?

Yes if it's not the same coach. You going to ask the next IU coach about Woody's decisions?
 
I can't dismiss what I saw with my own eyes and heard with my own ears.

You have been. JD 100% has his head turned left towards the reporter, the same direction Trump was looking. He did not look at Z, ever. Video absolutely shows that. His words addressed the question of the reporter concerning his Polish friends perceived alignment of Trump with Putin and how it affected their childhood belief that America was a force for good.

JD just added to Trump's response by stating we had Biden talk tough about Putin but did nothing and now we have a Trump using diplomacy. Again, this followed up Trump stating that he can't get a deal done by bashing Putin in public (like Biden did), then ask for peace. The 2 responses tied into one another.

Now if you want to discuss what happened after that and what JD did, we'd probably agree. But prior, we will not agree.
 
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