Ostensibly, Ego Man wants world peace so let’s hope he’s not stupid about that. Sounds like basically all he has to do is keep his trap shut for once and not twiddle his thumbs.
Trump Zelensky today.....
- Thread starter dr.jb
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They are Ukrainian bodies and Russian bodies. If Ukraine still has the stomach to ward off an invasion that violates international treaties, we should help them do so. Not the USA funding it alone, but as part of a coalition with our allies (well, our REAL allies, not our apparently new ally, Russia)
and when trump hands Ukraine over to Putin how many will he kill?
when a trump enabled Putin takes on the next country...how many will he kill?
Singed, sealed, delivered.
Let’s tamp down the histrionics please all. Whether Ukraine, tariffs, DOGE I’d advise a wait and see approach until the dust clears.
Rest easy, the adults are back in charge.
Let’s tamp down the histrionics please all. Whether Ukraine, tariffs, DOGE I’d advise a wait and see approach until the dust clears.
Rest easy, the adults are back in charge.
Could be good news but why does the man hate basic math. Overstates DOGE savings. Overstates US support for Ukraine. Just ridiculous.
"This country has stuck with them through thick and thin," Trump said. "We've given them much more than Europe, and Europe should have given more than us."
Ukraine support after 3 years of war: Aid flows remain low but steady - Shift towards weapons procurement
Over the past 3 years of war, donor countries have provided a low but continuous flow of support to Ukraine, with a value of about EUR 80 billion per year. European donors have been the main source of aid to Ukraine since 2022, especially when it comes to financial and humanitarian aid. At the...
www.ifw-kiel.de
I have yet to hear how signing that, which he would have Friday had things not devolved, means a whole lot. The argument is centered around 1) what will Ukraine give up 2) what security guarantees does she get.
I do not at all believe the conspiracy theory below, but I know some of you love a good conspiracy theory. Here is the beginning of one I saw a friend repost on Facebook:
“Trump was ordered by Putin to get Zelenskyy to sign the deal for 50% of Ukraine’s minerals so Trump could then turn around and partner with Putin to extract them. Putin would claim Russian industrial companies have been invited by the Americans with binding legal contracts to move into all of Ukraine. Putin would insist Russian businesses need protection of soldiers to honor contracts and provide security. The whole thing was treason. The entire meeting was a setup for Ukrainian Anschluss.
Again, I do not believe for a moment that's going to happen, but given many here believe every conspiracy they see I just think they deserve the right to believe this one.
Actually, Oblameless took a lot of grief due to his refusal to follow the garden path that Nuland, McCain, Chris Murphy,Miss Lindsay Graham and other neocons relentlessly pushed him towards. It was PDJT who released Javelins and other more advanced systems for Ukraine. PDJT stopped listening to the pigs of war after watching the inept management of the 'Special Military Operation ' opposition, bought, trained, equipped by NATO Equipment, logistics , training, and plenty of $$$.
Inept management? Ukraine is still a sovereign nation.
Or as the kids say: SCOREBOARD
C'mon, it's inept to those who wanted Putin to roll all the way to Warsaw in three days.
For your edification:
Russian military have moved into Sumy Oblast, making 7 Oblasts uith growing incremental gains, and the Kursk salient.
Karkive will get a lot of attention in the next few weeks
Not the good kind
The never-ending Special Military Operation that almost got Putin killed by his former caterer?
Meanwhile.The never-ending Special Military Operation that almost got Putin killed by his former caterer?
Russian. Military have moved further into Sumy Oblast and threatening the western Ukro flank in Kursk, increasing pressure on Karkive.
Had Kyiv surrounded, now just nibbling at edges. Russia could still get a great deal but their performance militarily has been an outright disaster. A coup attempt, running out of bullets, having NK soldiers shipped in by train — a lesson in how not to run a war— er, special military operation.
He/she/it doesn't seek to be taken seriously.
He/she/it only wants to disrupt any discussion of real issues and create clicks.
"Lucy" could be banned on this ground alone under the posted Forum Rules, but the PTB would rather have that user enhance the user base numbers and generate clicks. That user has long ago stopped being entertaining and still wanders into the realm of racist, sexist and generally offensive. The PTB don't care (obviously).
And what good does it do for Trump to pursue agreements for the US to receive Ukraine minerals (as he claims to be his goal), if Russia is going to continue moving into Ukraine and/or continue to destroy Ukraine industries like mining with bombs and drones?
It all ties together.
That's OK - I know I'm right!
A question for you. Where did you get your quotes from? The quote from Vance and Zelenskyy were wrong. The year was 2014 not 2013. Here's the actual quote from the video I watched and the correct transcript:
Vance: For four years, the United States of America, we had a president who stood up at press conferences and talked tough about Vladimir Putin, and then Putin invaded Ukraine and destroyed a significant chunk of the country. The path to peace and the path to prosperity is, maybe, engaging in diplomacy. We tried the pathway of Joe Biden, of thumping our chest and pretending that the president of the United States’ words mattered more than the president of the United States’ actions. What makes America a good country is America engaging in diplomacy. That’s what President Trump is doing.
Zelenskyy: Okay, he occupied our parts, big parts of Ukraine, part of East and Crimea, so he occupied it in 2014. So, during a lot of years, I’m not speaking about just Biden, but those time was President Obama, then President Trump, then President Biden, now President Trump and, God bless, now President Trump will stop him. But during 2014, nobody stopped him. He just occupied and took. He killed people, you know? What the contact line -
Then he was cut off by President Trump who said, "2015" and he was wrong. Zelenskyy AND Vance corrected him, though Vance tried to soften it by saying "2014 to 2015" which I thought was subtle ass kissing. The occupation (illegal, by the way) of Crimea happened in 2014, but that's to be expected from a VP to a Prez, I suppose.
Also, what Vance interrupted to say wasn't really responsive to the question to Trump, which the President answered. Vance jumped in after the President to say what he said. The "let me respond to this" part wasn't said because he wasn't responding to the question that Trump had already answered.
This has the video which starts before Vance jumped in and started the shitshow. It includes the transcript of the shitshow too:
What Trump and Zelenskyy said during their heated argument in the Oval Office
"This is going to be great television. I will say that," President Donald Trump said after a minuteslong fight with Ukrainian President Zelenskyy in front of cameras during a visit to the White House.www.pbs.org
Interestingly, this is what Senator Graham said that he said in that bipartisan Senator meeting with Zelenskyy:
I told him this morning, ‘Don’t take the bait. Don’t let the media or anyone else get you into an argument with President Trump.
I don't think Graham knew that it would be Vance to start the argument.
Ok. I watched this for the 3rd time on closed captions and it is exactly as I remember it. The reporter said he grew up in Poland and always remembered the US being a force for good and if Trump was aligning himself too close to Putin.
This are the next words spoken:
Trump: “Well, if I didn't align myself with both of them, you'd never have a deal. You want me to say really terrible things about Putin and then say, ‘Hi, Vladimir. How are we doing on the deal?’ That doesn't work that way. I'm not aligned with Putin. I'm not aligned with anybody. I'm aligned with the United States of America, and for the good of the world, I'm aligned with the world, and I want to get this thing over with. You see, the hatred he's [Zelensky] got for Putin, it's very tough for me to make a deal with that kind of hate. He's got tremendous hatred, and I understand that, but I can tell you the other side is not exactly in love with him either. So it's not a question of alignment. I have to I'm aligned with the world. I want to get the thing set. I'm aligned with Europe. I want to see if we can get this thing done. You want me to be tough? I could be tougher than any human being you've ever seen. I'd be so tough, but you're never going to get a deal that way. So that's the way it goes.”
Vance: “I will respond to this. So look, for four years the United States of America, we had a president who stood up at press conferences and talked about Vladimir Putin, and then Putin invaded Ukraine and destroyed a significant chunk of the country. The path to peace and the path to prosperity is maybe engaging in diplomacy. We tried the pathway of Joe Biden, of thumping our chest and pretending that the President of the United States’ words mattered more than the President of the United States' actions. What makes America a good country is America engaging in diplomacy. That's what President Trump is doing."
Vance is specifically responding to the question of the US being for good and alignment with Putin. He addressed how just saying Putin is bad for 4 years didn't move the needle to end the war. Diplomacy, by talking to both sides, is what makes America good.
Z then said: “Can I ask you?”
Vance: “Sure. Yeah.”
You left that part out, the part when Z engaged Vance, not Vance engaging Z.
Then Z went to discuss the past and his issues with trusting Putin who has a string if broken promises. And he has some valid points. But it was not the time or place to discuss and litigate the issue. Z already spent the time with props, telling Trump what to do. He needed to allow JD to answer the Polish reporters question and move on.
Nothing JD said when responding to the reporter's question was wrong, anti-Ukraine or pro-Putin. Z was wrong in my opinion.
I just watched that part again and it does not entirely match what you're saying. Trump answered the question. Vance jumped in after Trump spoke and had nothing to add - he wasn't actually responding to the question. Trump already answered it. Zelenskyy then tried to respond after Vance spoke. Let's just stop since we can't even agree with what we see with our own eyes and hear with our own ears. I don't get it, but it is what it is.
Cheers, and go Hoosiers!
At least we both watched the ENTIRE 50 minutes.
I am glad to see Z coming back to the table. Get the minerals deal done, then let's see where it goes next. Hopefully towards a ceasefire and peace deal. Will be interesting to see what each side will have to sacrifice. And if it can last.
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