Zelensky is a great war time leader, but he needs to farm out his negotiations with the US to someone else.
Trump Zelensky today.....
- Thread starter dr.jb
- Start date
This is misinformation. He met with Republican and Democrat Senators in the same meeting who essentially expressed their support for him and Ukraine. Support for Ukraine has been bipartisan until now. I have since seen MAGAs post, no kidding, “**** UKRAINE” on Facebook since Friday. This is wrong.
Based on Bessents comments and Zelensky’s actions, I agree with CO. It doesn’t mean we’re right, but it’s not an unreasonable conclusion.
Well, "unreasonable" is subjective, but I'll grant that you're using inductive reasoning to draw a conclusion based on data. I'm saying that data is so sparse and so ambiguous as to amount to really no evidence to support your conclusion. I, however, would not accuse you of engaging in some sort of logical fallacy, though. I do think Z should have signed this thing in Kyiv or Munich and avoided the whole shebang. I'm not willing to follow your leap that it means he didn't really intend to sign it. I think at most it signals that he really wanted to sign it with Trump on American soil.
Why do people keep citing this? He works for Trump now and is in charge of carrying out Trump’s foreign policy vision.
Does not change a comma of what I postedYou don't even want to go there after what the Russians did at Bucha.
And they haven't kidnapped tens of thousands of Russian children like the Russians took Ukrainian children
War crimes in the Russian invasion of Ukraine - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Bucha massacre
Main article: Bucha massacre
Executed civilians with wrists bound in plastic restraints, in a basement in Bucha, 3 April 2022
Russian forces north of Kyiv withdrew in late March, Videos emerged of bodies in the streets, at least twenty in civilian clothing.[67] AFP saw at least twenty civilians corpses in the street, all shot in the back of the head. At least one had its hands tied, Another 270 to 280 were buried in mass graves.[68][67] Police said on 15 April they had found 350 bodies in Bucha, most with gunshot wounds.[63]
Drone video verified by The New York Times showed two Russian armoured vehicles firing at a civilian walking a bicycle. A later video showed the body lying next to a bicycle.[69] The Economist reported a man trapped at a checkpoint who took artillery fire then was captured, beaten and tortured, then taken outside to be shot. He played dead until he could flee.[70] BBC News reported tied bodies of civilians at a temple, run over by a tank.[71]
Territorial Defense Forces released video of 18 mutilated bodies in Zabuchchia, Bucha Raion.[72] A Ukrainian soldier said some bodies had their ears cut off and the teeth of others had been pulled.[72] Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty reported a Russian "execution cellar" used by Russian forces.[73] Russian soldiers killed a woman and her 14-year-old after they threw smoke grenades into a basement where they hid.[57]
Russian tanks entered Bucha shooting randomly at house windows as they drove down the streets.[74] The New York Times said snipers in high-rise buildings shot at anyone that moved.[75] A witness told Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty that Russians "were killing people systematically. I personally heard how one sniper was boasting that he 'offed' two people he saw in apartment windows..."[76] Troops fired at civilians seeking food and water, witnesses said, and ordered them back inside without basic necessities like water and heat. Russian troops shot indiscriminately at buildings and refused medical aid to injured civilians, HRW said.[74]
Russian soldiers checked documents and killed anyone who had fought in Donbas or had tattoos of right-wing or Ukrainian symbols, said a witness. In the last days of occupation, Kadyrovite Chechen fighters shot at every civilian they met.[77] A resident said Russians checked cell phones for evidence of "anti-Russian activity" before they took people away or shot them.[78]
Associated Press saw charred bodies on a residential street near a playground in Bucha on 5 April. One had a bullet hole in its skull, another was the burned body of a child. They could not identify them or determine how they died.[79] Ukrainian investigators found beheadings, mutilation and incinerated corpses, and the next day three more bodies in a glass factory, The Washington Post reported. At least one body was booby trapped, mined with tripwires.[80] HRW reported "extensive evidence of summary executions... and torture" in Bucha and 16 apparently unlawful killings, nine summary executions and seven indiscriminate killings of civilians.[81]
The New York Times on 19 May released video of Russian paratroopers leading a group of civilians, clearly in Russian custody minutes before their execution. The video confirms eyewitness accounts.[82]
By 8 August 458 bodies were recovered, including 9 children; 419 were killed with weapons and 39 died of natural causes possibly related to the occupation.[83]
On 7 December OHCHR reported that the Monitoring Mission in Ukraine had documented at least 73 unlawful killings of civilians in Bucha and were still confirming another 105.[84]
This is simple. It did not happen as the Twitter Twits said it did. It was a meeting between Democrat AND Republican Senators and Zelenskyy. The Senators simply expressed support and hopes for a peace deal in the not too distant future. Support for Ukraine has been bipartisan until now.
Wonder how many times you'll need to post this before people get it.
Oh, wait, no I don't. They won't get it, no matter how many times.
Zelenskyy is saying he thinks the deal will get signed. Trump also. Are you following the latest news?
Ok. But I believe there is zero chance Russia accepts that with NATO membership. Just my opinion. I think the NATO is a non-starter for Putin.
And no mention of US security guarantees for Ukraine. Obviously, Z wants that as he demanded last week.
Exactly right. Once they have the misinformation in their heads it stays there and cannot be dislodged.
ive successfully negotiated scores of contentious settlements. One of the biggest impediments to productive settlements is a client’s need to go into court and say what an asshole the opposing party is. That is where Zelensky is and that is where you are. But it really is a nonproductive waste of time. Settlements are only about getting a good deal for your side.
It’s about way more than feelz. Making Putin the bad guy (which he is) drums up support for Ukraine within supporting nations’ populations, increasing the chances of further and greater funding, leading to better terms for Ukraine.
And there might be some minor similarities between a legal settlement and a peace deal between warring nations, but they are far from identical.
That ship has sailed. In the first year or two, sympathies were strongly pro-Ukraine and anti- Putin. Now war fatigue is setting in. Polling data shows that belief that Zelenskyy knows what he is doing is dwindling fast.
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