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Tom Allen has to go

Well, he was before this year. His Defense is not a strong point this year.
My intuition tells me that he is a decent, P5 DC if that's his sole focus. It appears that he has too much to chew on at the moment and it's beyond his abilities. I think the rah-rah stuff works better too from a coordinator as opposed to the head guy. Imagine if Allen was DC right now with DeBoer as HC. Oh well. One can dream :D
 
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My intuition tells me that he is a decent, P5 DC if that's his sole focus. It appears that he has too much to chew on at the moment and it's beyond his abilities. I think the rah-rah stuff works better too from a coordinator as opposed to the head guy. Imagine if Allen was DC right now with DeBoer as HC. Oh well. One can dream :D
Good point about him possibly being overloaded with multiple roles.
 
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Good point about him possibly being overloaded with multiple roles.

Early on in his career I watched him at an open practice game at MS,,,,,,,,,,,,he was all over the field, frantically barking out commands and instructions. He was the only coach with a bullhorn. I had the impression that he didn't trust his assistants much. It was like watching "Head Coaching for Dummies". I left with a bad feeling about the situation.

I was very surprised by his success in '19 & '20. Frankly, I think most commentators and fans were. We had DeBoer & Wommack and I thought maybe his obvious strengths were enough to overcome his obvious weaknesses, as long as he was able to delegate responsibility. Especially what seemed like an ability to locate and hire special talents as assistants once he learned he couldn't do it all on his own. As it turned out, that was illusion, and losing DeBoer & Wommack was a killer.

Given those developments, I was surprised but not really shocked by '21. And not surprised at all by '22.
 
2019? Lmao. Every single team we beat that year finished with a losing record. And 2020 we didn't beat one team that finished in the top 25. Lol.
'19 was DeBoer, Wommack, and a very favorable schedule. '20 was Wommack, COVID, and some breaks (How would '20 have turned out if Penix had been called out-of-bounds?)

Not many coaches are as dependent on great assistant coaches as CTA.
 
Ord actually got me banned for arguing with him many years ago on Peegs.

For some reason, Peegs loved him and all his sycophants complained about me. I followed forum rules and even got an e-mail from Peegs one time that he knew I had broken no rules. But I was also critical of the coaching staff at the time and he said he had too many complaints from people in the Athletic Department about me.

Thank God the owners of this site have changed.

But I know Ord, and this latest reincarnation is definitely him. I just engage him as little as possible.
Yeah, he will do what he does...always has, always will and then trash IU, IU fans, and IU teams on GBI until he slithers back here with a new name. I won't apologize for treating a troll like a troll. Esprcially one that follows me around posting behind me.

Peegs loved him for a short time until they figured him out. They are the ones that filled me in on him actually. He has the current FB mod here fooled still.
 
Well, he was before this year. His Defense is not a strong point this year.
The concern for me is that we have had two highly touted defensive secondaries in a row that have underperformed. I still think he would be coveted by many HCs.
 
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2019? Lmao. Every single team we beat that year finished with a losing record. And 2020 we didn't beat one team that finished in the top 25. Lol.
Funny how no other coach in decades managed it in any circumstances here, isn't it? But sure, he should get no credit for stupid reasons because you say so. You play the teams on the schedule, and he beat more of them than anyone else had here in decades, including the abusive POS most of those who seem to hate Allen seem to love in Kevin Wilson.
 
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If you have 2 good years and 4 bad years, should it be enough to keep your job? Even at IU?
Considering that is much more than anyone else has done here since the early 90s, yes.
You can't have Alabama standards at the losingest program in all of college football.
Also, 2017 and 2018 were not "bad years", 5-7 is frankly above average for us.
Not good enough, sure, but not "bad". The only genuinely bad year he's had was last year.

If someone's shown they can have success here, and that they can recruit at a higher level than anyone else has, you don't give that up until you absolutely have to. And we aren't close to that yet. Allen's best two classes won't be filtering into significant involvement until next season and the year after, so he deserves at least that long.
 
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If you have 2 good years and 4 bad years, should it be enough to keep your job? Even at IU?
Being near .500 in the B1G isn't a bad year. 2021 was a very bad year. This year we will have to wait and see.
'19 was DeBoer, Wommack, and a very favorable schedule. '20 was Wommack, COVID, and some breaks (How would '20 have turned out if Penix had been called out-of-bounds?)

Not many coaches are as dependent on great assistant coaches as CTA.
All HC are dependent on great assistant coaches at the D1 level. Look at how Alabama's coaches that have moved on done in their new jobs - very good in all or at least most cases. Look at IU's coordinators DeBoer and Wommack. A HC needs very good coaches surrounding him.
 
Being near .500 in the B1G isn't a bad year. 2021 was a very bad year. This year we will have to wait and see.

All HC are dependent on great assistant coaches at the D1 level. Look at how Alabama's coaches that have moved on done in their new jobs - very good in all or at least most cases. Look at IU's coordinators DeBoer and Wommack. A HC needs very good coaches surrounding him.
Before the season started, you said each of our new coaches was an upgrade over the coaches from last year. You also said we failed on defense because we didn’t play enough players last season. You’re now saying that the assistants are largely to blame for our poor play and that we’re playing too many players on D. Have your preseason views changed?
 
You ever been to Nebraska? The weekends when U of N has a game Memorial stadium becomes the second largest city in the state. The Nebraska folks have literally nothing else to root for. There are no professioinal franchises in any sport. So not sure their fans are so loyal as they are with nothing else to do.

Could IU fans be better? Absolutely. Ticket holders at IU football games who either leave at halftime and never come back or who buy tickets but never even walk into the stadium preferring to stay outside tailgating are terrible, not really fans. There really shouldn't be an option to return if you walk outside the stadium at halftime, though most don't return anyway.

But, like many arguments there are two sides. What really has IU football done over the years to deserve even the fan support it gets. I've been an IU fan for way longer than I want to admit, but in that time IU has had a terrible record with a really bad football product, almost unwatchable due to the dumb mistakes and incompetent coaches, the vast majority of the time. IU athletics administrators have been so inept so often in hiring decisions that you almost have to wonder if they're trying to be bad.

Lighten up, at least they still have enough concern that they care about the product. There is ample reason for no one to care.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, if you've never been you need to go at least once. Not just the friendliest fans in the BT, but they do it all up right. The Hay Market and the individual tailgates give the place a "Mardi Gras in the Cornfields" or a 4 month long Oktoberfest kind of vibe. Been twice and had a great time. Omaha is a nice town as well with a pretty cool downtown area. Would be a nice place to live if they could just crank up the Global Warming (or whatever it is now).
 
I've said it before and I'll say it again, if you've never been you need to go at least once. Not just the friendliest fans in the BT, but they do it all up right. The Hay Market and the individual tailgates give the place a "Mardi Gras in the Cornfields" or a 4 month long Oktoberfest kind of vibe. Been twice and had a great time. Omaha is a nice town as well with a pretty cool downtown area. Would be a nice place to live if they could just crank up the Global Warming (or whatever it is now).
It’s a fantastic environment. Top tailgating, plenty of places to go within a walk of the stadium if you aren’t tailgating, and knowledgable and friendly fans.
 
Being near .500 in the B1G isn't a bad year. 2021 was a very bad year. This year we will have to wait and see.

All HC are dependent on great assistant coaches at the D1 level. Look at how Alabama's coaches that have moved on done in their new jobs - very good in all or at least most cases. Look at IU's coordinators DeBoer and Wommack. A HC needs very good coaches surrounding him.
Was it though?

He was coming off 2015 and 2016 bowl seasons under Otis, and flubbed up against Minnesota, Maryland and Purdue in 2017 and 2018 to fall below the 6 win mark.
He couldn’t maintain the consistency we had going at the time. He’s floundered when anything of importance was on the line. This past Saturday was just another fail in a list of games where his teams needed to do something to gain bowl eligibility. Just my opinion but the writing is on the wall here.
 
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That is supposed to be good? Prior to Steve Spurrier's arrival at Florida, they had very few winning seasons ever. But still had many more fans than 40,000. Nebraska has been average or bad for awhile and still had 90,000 .
You were saying we only drew 30k. I was just pointing out that attendence has been decent for IU so far.

I wasn't comparing them to anyone else, but you knew that. You were just embarrassed you were called on your false number.
 
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Was it though?

He was coming off 2015 and 2016 bowl seasons under Otis, and flubbed up against Minnesota, Maryland and Purdue in 2017 and 2018 to fall below the 6 win mark.
He couldn’t maintain the consistency we had going at the time. He’s floundered when anything of importance was on the line. This past Saturday was just another fail in a list of games where his teams needed to do something to gain bowl eligibility. Just my opinion but the writing is on the wall here.
The only thing i would push back on is calling what we had when Wilson left "consistency" the trusses were already wobbling.
 
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I've said it before and I'll say it again, if you've never been you need to go at least once. Not just the friendliest fans in the BT, but they do it all up right. The Hay Market and the individual tailgates give the place a "Mardi Gras in the Cornfields" or a 4 month long Oktoberfest kind of vibe. Been twice and had a great time. Omaha is a nice town as well with a pretty cool downtown area. Would be a nice place to live if they could just crank up the Global Warming (or whatever it is now).
We only went once. Took the RV over. Clearly lots of fans and we found them to be pretty friendly and certainly supportive of their program. Lincoln is not a great college town, I would put them third tier in the BIG so the game is kinda it. Tailgating was ok, not IU but certainly ok.
 
Was it though?

He was coming off 2015 and 2016 bowl seasons under Otis, and flubbed up against Minnesota, Maryland and Purdue in 2017 and 2018 to fall below the 6 win mark.
He couldn’t maintain the consistency we had going at the time. He’s floundered when anything of importance was on the line. This past Saturday was just another fail in a list of games where his teams needed to do something to gain bowl eligibility. Just my opinion but the writing is on the wall here.
Wilson won six games in the prior two years; it wasn't like he was on some amazing roll.
And don't forget that Wilson probably doesn't even make it to 2016 if SIU converts for two in 2015.
He was well on his way to the hotseat and was saved by barely squeaking out a bowl appearance that year. It was a fringe program that needed two wins over Purdue at one of their lowest points to get there both times.

Allen won one fewer game than Wilson did in 2017 and 2018, in his first years as a college HC, and while he missed a bowl both times, he got to the same position Wilson's supposedly consistent teams were in the years prior. Needing a win over Purdue for a bowl. The difference is that Wilson got to face terrible Hazell Purdue teams in those games while Allen faced competent ones. And then Allen went on to raise the program to a level Wilson's performance never even vaguely suggested he could.
 
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Wilson won six games in the prior two years; it wasn't like he was on some amazing roll.
And don't forget that Wilson probably doesn't even make it to 2016 if SIU converts for two in 2015.
He was well on his way to the hotseat and was saved by barely squeaking out a bowl appearance that year. It was a fringe program that needed two wins over Purdue at one of their lowest points to get there both times.

Allen won one fewer game than Wilson did in 2017 and 2018, in his first years as a college HC, and while he missed a bowl both times, he got to the same position Wilson's supposedly consistent teams were in the years prior. Needing a win over Purdue for a bowl. The difference is that Wilson got to face terrible Hazell Purdue teams in those games while Allen faced competent ones. And then Allen went on to raise the program to a level Wilson's performance never even vaguely suggested he could.
I was okay with KW, but he Was never going to be a good fit for us (or anyone else). Most people know that.
 
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Early on in his career I watched him at an open practice game at MS,,,,,,,,,,,,he was all over the field, frantically barking out commands and instructions. He was the only coach with a bullhorn. I had the impression that he didn't trust his assistants much. It was like watching "Head Coaching for Dummies". I left with a bad feeling about the situation.

I was very surprised by his success in '19 & '20. Frankly, I think most commentators and fans were. We had DeBoer & Wommack and I thought maybe his obvious strengths were enough to overcome his obvious weaknesses, as long as he was able to delegate responsibility. Especially what seemed like an ability to locate and hire special talents as assistants once he learned he couldn't do it all on his own. As it turned out, that was illusion, and losing DeBoer & Wommack was a killer.

Given those developments, I was surprised but not really shocked by '21. And not surprised at all by '22.
I commented after the first game or so about how he couldn't follow through with a thought at his press conferences. He's all over the place.

Allen is just old school - in your face. It can be effective, but I think we see the drawbacks first-hand.
 
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The only thing i would push back on is calling what we had when Wilson left "consistency" the trusses were already wobbling.
Still …. IU promoted from within and promptly lost to its in-state rival with a brand new coach for two straight years. And, that was an absolute piss poor program under Hazell. I guess Allen was somewhat new as well but he had been here a year in our system. That speaks volumes right there.
 
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Nebraska

Nebraska has had five straight losing seasons and still sells out their stadium ever single game, and their fans don't leave in droves at the first sign of adversity like ours always do.

Indiana, on the other hand, and this is just one example, played in front of a half-empty stadium in the midst of their best season in decades against Northwestern in 2019, that, big shock, got even more empty at halftime on a day with absolutely beautiful weather.

Nebraska fans, and any real fans, are there for the team no matter what. Indiana football "fans" mostly can't even bother to show up or stick around in even the fairest of fair-weather scenarios.
Maybe if Nebraska fans rooted harder they would win more. They haven’t rooted hard enough ever since Tom Osborne left.

Hell I blame myself for not rooting hard enough when I was an IU student from 97-01. My lack of rooting eventually got Knight fired.
 
Still …. IU promoted from within and promptly lost to its in-state rival with a brand new coach for two straight years. And, that was an absolute piss poor program under Hazell. I guess Allen was somewhat new as well but he had been here a year in our system. That speaks volumes right there.
Wut?
 
'19 was DeBoer, Wommack, and a very favorable schedule. '20 was Wommack, COVID, and some breaks (How would '20 have turned out if Penix had been called out-of-bounds?)

Not many coaches are as dependent on great assistant coaches as CTA.

Name me a good head coach without good coordinators or assistants.
 
Should we judge our present football coach against past IU football coaches or against a mythical average D1 football coach or maybe against a good D1 football coach? I’d argue for the average one, at least for now. Past IU coaches set a ridiculously low bar and a good D1 coach would cost too much and we wouldn’t know how to support him. Start with middling steps, not baby steps and not leaps.

Judging Alan against past IU football coaches, we keep him too long. Judged against average D1 coaches, barring a miracle rest of the season, we see how poorly his teams have performed and, I hope, act accordingly.
 
After all it is the customer’s fault
So what you are saying there is no such thing as a home field advantage? I was in a hotel lobby in Gainesville, the night before the Utah game. Watching the IU- Illinois game and I started talking to a few Utah fans. I told them that Utah is probably the better team but the Swamp is an entirely different beast. They responded they had played at Autzen Stadium. I replied that there are 30,000 more people. It is is in ground and fully enclosed. Low and behold the Gators pulled off the upset. The next day there is videos of guys puking on the sideline. There are pictures of Utah fans holding their ears. The Swamp is just different and if you have not been there for an FSU or Tenn or Auburn game then you just don't have a clue. It is truly amazing kind of like a game at Assembly Hall for Kentucky or Purdue.
 
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