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Thoughts on last night, and IUs future

I think a bigger factor than fatigue was preparation. Saint Mary's is not a team that you can prepare to play in short order the way IU did. Early Sunday evening the players and staff find out that Saint Mary's is looming on Thursday, but on the way to Portland we have to stop off in Dayton and beat a Wyoming team that set basketball offense back 100 years.

IU maybe would have been sliced and diced by Saint Mary's anyway, but it looked like they just walked in off the street and challenged the Gaels to a game. They may as well have jumped off the bus and challenged Army to a game of football and tried to stop the wishbone.

I've seen a lot of IU games, but only a couple of times has it looked like the Hoosiers were chosen as stand-ins for the Washington Generals, and this was one of those times. I just don't think fatigue was the #1 factor, but I guess it don't matter... on to next year.
Surely someone on the staff was studying St Mary's as soon as the bracket came out. Then we had the tournament standard one day to prep the team.

Things just went south against a team that knew how to exploit our weaknesses and no one made the plays to turn it around. Eventually we just gave up.
 
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Physical fatigue is the precursor to mental fatigue. I mean seriously, what are you talking about? Teams that are tired are more prone to making mistakes.

You're absolutely nuts if you think a normal practice equates to a high level game situation, let alone 5 in 7 days. Players aren't running on adrenaline in practice like they are in games. There's a reason why teams practice every day but don't play games every day.

Again, if you don't know, you don't know. I'm not arguing semantics with you, I'm flat telling you you're wrong.

A couple other things.

Race in particular looked absolutely shot even in the Wyoming game, almost wonder if he had been sick this week (especially since Duncombe was out sick for one of the BTT games). Wyoming and St Mary's were his 2 worst games of the season and he went a combined 3-15. He hadn't been held below 35% shooting since November and had only been held to below 40% 4 times all season (2 of which were in November).

I saw a live stream of the team shoot around in Portland on Wednesday and watched for about 15-20 minutes. They couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. I'm guessing they were hitting around 25-30% of mid range shots, and sub 20% from 3 - IN A SHOOT AROUND. and I'm not exaggerating either. Something just wasn't right with those guys
 
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Surely someone on the staff was studying St Mary's as soon as the bracket came out. Then we had the tournament standard one day to prep the team.

Things just went south against a team that knew how to exploit our weaknesses and no one made the plays to turn it around. Eventually we just gave up.
True. I'm just saying that fatigue would show up by looking a step slow. What it looked like to me was that St. Mary's had too many players out on the floor offensively, Our team hangs it's hat on defense and the surgical disembowelment on that end of the floor was what caused our guys to lose hope and tap out.
 
True. I'm just saying that fatigue would show up by looking a step slow. What it looked like to me was that St. Mary's had too many players out on the floor offensively, Our team hangs it's hat on defense and the surgical disembowelment on that end of the floor was what caused our guys to lose hope and tap out.
Yes.

That was the psychological (mental) aspect of last nights debacle. They dominated us into submission and we finally tapped sometime around 6-7 minutes into the second half.
 
Overall, I just think last night was...weird. St Mary's is not a good enough team, overall, to do what they did to us. And the only way that happens, is our guys had to have quit mentally. Which would make exactly 1 game all year long, that that has happened. So it's just weird, to me, that whatever the conditions, circumstances, something about Mary's, whatever it was, caused us to quit...not in some game in the long, grinding, month of January...not against an obviously more talented team...but in what was probably one of the biggest, if not THE biggest, games in each of our players lives, against a good, but not great mid major level program.

All the flaws and weaknesses were exposed last night, obviously. But we've had them all year long, and we've ground out respectable performances in basically every game. Even the "blowout" losses to Illinois and Michigan, the 2 games all season long where we might have seemed to not show up, or to quit...they were very competitive games well into the 2nd half.

So...weird.

Going forward its going to be fascinating, to me, what players stay and what players go. Most likely we won't be able to make too many conclusions on how good the culture is, how well the guys like each other, where everyone's minds are at, etc... just by who stays and who leaves. But obviously if we have a mass exodus, that isn't good. Its not good for the product on the court, but more importantly, it'd be a terrible indicator that the locker room wasn't as good or as strong as many of us hoped it was. We have a flawed roster right now. We have a flawed coach. But both of those things can improve. The guys that come back can shoot hundreds/thousands of shots a day and get better. We can get transfers and recruits that will make it better. Coach Woodson can watch film, reflect, pick Matta's brain, etc... and get a lot better. I actually assume those things will all happen. But if we see a mass exodus of players, that's a sign that something deeper is broken. That the late game fades are a result of something deeper. That the reason for the seemingly "weird" game last night, could be a culmination of those deeper issues.

So, I'm actually hoping every single one of our players wants to come back. Because for me, that would be an incredibly good sign that Woody and the guys have something strong foundationally to build on for next year. Because if that's true, using this year as a benchmark and starting point, we have a chance to be a lot better, and really good next year.

Obviously everyone can't come back. With 3 incoming freshmen, some are going to have to leave. And who those people are will certainly have an impact on how good we'll be next year. But its MUCH, MUCH, MUCH more important, to me, why they end up leaving, than who actually leaves. We have older guys, a couple that have legit chances at making money playing basketball. Leaving to explore those opportunities, that's healthy and expected for a high level program. We also have a slew of talented younger kids, that didn't get much playing time this year. Those are the kids I'll be paying closer attention to. If kids like Tamar, Jordan, Khristian, Trey, Anthony, Logan...leave...that's not a good sign for our program, in my opinion. As with most things...it'll likely end up being somewhere in the middle.

We shall see. Weird night last night.
If anyone is trying to base IU’s future on the performance of an exhausted team from last, even partially, go ahead and stop wasting your time. Fatigue, both mental and physical happen. Get over it.

These guys played their asses off to beat a MI team that’s a bad matchup for us. They proceeded to beat a good Illinois team that’s also a bad/tough matchup for us. They played Iowa right up until Bohannon’s late game horseshit. Two days later they play a tough, physical, grinding game against Wyoming, only to turn around and fly across the country to play not even 48 hours later.

I’m not saying fatigue was the only reason we lost. What I’m saying is fatigue is the reason we lost the way we did. We were with st Mary’s and beating them until the fatigue really set in. Reaction times were off, a step slow, no elevation on shots or rebounds. That’s not a matter of motivation. That’s called fatigue.
 
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Got it. I suppose the NBA really has drifted toward the Golden State style of basketball. Interesting.
Not just that. The talent level in the NBA is about as high as it’s been since the 80s. Watch a Brooklyn game. KD and Kyrie are otherworld offensive bball player. Seth Curry is no slouch either. Watch a Denver game. Joker is amazing. He runs an NBA team from the center position and he’s doing it this year with replacement level players.

IU, and a lot of other college teams, are playing bball like it was played 20 years ago. Any coach who is not stealing from NBA playbooks should be criticized. It’s not that hard.
 
I know it lies with IU...which is my point. St Mary's isn't good enough to put a 50-12 run on us. They did it last night. It happened. So obviously its possible. But I never would have dreamed it was possible. And while I don't particularly enjoy the slower, methodical, St Mary's/Wisconsin style, I do respect it. And I do respect what Bennett has built and done at St Mary's.

We can for sure agree to disagree on how good St Mary's is. And I'll certainly admit I'm wrong if they go on a run. If they're as good as you're saying, they should beat both UCLA and Baylor.
Agree with this. The extremes are rarely correct. St Mary’s is a good team, sure. Maybe they can make a run in the tourney, hope they do. But let’s be honest, the loss was a complete mental (and maybe physical) breakdown from IU.
If St Mary’s goes on to beat Baylor/Purdue/Gonzaga/Kansas or Arizona for the national title then I may revise this opinion.
 
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Agree with this. The extremes are rarely correct. St Mary’s is a good team, sure. Maybe they can make a run in the tourney, hope they do. But let’s be honest, the loss was a complete mental (and maybe physical) breakdown from IU.
If St Mary’s goes on to beat Baylor/Purdue/Gonzaga/Kansas or Arizona for the national title then I may revise this opinion.
It St. Marys losses the next game I would have to say yesterday was mostly mental for us. Giving up a 50-12 run in almose unheard of for a power 5 team. I am interested to see how Notre Dame does as they palyed a double overtime game less than two days ago and now have an afternoon game. So far they look to be hanging in the game. They I assume also had a very late flight the night of the game on Wednesday out to San Diego.
 
It St. Marys losses the next game I would have to say yesterday was mostly mental for us. Giving up a 50-12 run in almose unheard of for a power 5 team. I am interested to see how Notre Dame does as they palyed a double overtime game less than two days ago and now have an afternoon game. So far they look to be hanging in the game. They I assume also had a very late flight the night of the game on Wednesday out to San Diego.
Notre Dame lost on Wednesday of the ACC tournament. They didn't play elimination type games Thur, Fri, and Sat. Not apples to apples comparison, they've played 1 game since 3/9.
 
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Notre Dame lost on Wednesday of the ACC tournament. They didn't play elimination type games Thur, Fri, and Sat. Not apples to apples comparison, they've played 1 game since 3/9.

Also, ND averages like 36% from 3 on the season with about 8 made per game. They are currently 6 for 8 in this game.

Plus, Alabama at a 6 seed is a really good draw. They had some really good non conf wins, but have played mostly like a bubble team the last 2 and a half months. And their second best player went down with an injury early in the game
 
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Also, ND averages like 36% from 3 on the season with about 8 made per game. They are currently 6 for 8 in this game.

Plus, Alabama at a 6 seed is a really good draw. They had some really good non conf wins, but have played mostly like a bubble team the last 2 and a half months. And their second best player went down with an injury early in the game
I mean there is no point in debating this anymore you guys are dug in with giving excuses for our getting destroyed. Everything was stacked against IU I guess and Notre Dame has it much easier now even though last weeekend people said they like the IU draw. . Not sure what Notre Dame being hot from three has to do with them playing a game in less than 48 hours but lets just go with the deck was stacked against IU totally and there was no possible way we could compte at all. Conversation over.
 
I mean there is no point in debating this anymore you guys are dug in with giving excuses for our getting destroyed. Everything was stacked against IU I guess and Notre Dame has it much easier now even though last weeekend people said they like the IU draw. . Not sure what Notre Dame being hot from three has to do with them playing a game in less than 48 hours but lets just go with the deck was stacked against IU totally and there was no possible way we could compte at all. Conversation over.

Then argue in good faith next time dumb @$$
 
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I mean there is no point in debating this anymore you guys are dug in with giving excuses for our getting destroyed. Everything was stacked against IU I guess and Notre Dame has it much easier now even though last weeekend people said they like the IU draw. . Not sure what Notre Dame being hot from three has to do with them playing a game in less than 48 hours but lets just go with the deck was stacked against IU totally and there was no possible way we could compte at all. Conversation over.
No one is saying that fatigue is the only issue that IU lost, just that it spiraled a more typical loss for other reasons into a god awful loss.

Also, IU started 2-3 from 3 and was staying competitive by creating more open for shots in the paint. IU then went cold shooting, St Marys packed the defense in and the team unraveled
 
No one is saying that fatigue is the only issue that IU lost, just that it spiraled a more typical loss for other reasons into a god awful loss.

Also, IU started 2-3 from 3 and was staying competitive by creating more open for shots in the paint. IU then went cold shooting, St Marys packed the defense in and the team unraveled

Don’t waste your breath. He’s just a mouth breather fixated to one narrative: IU sucks. The reasons why he says the dumbest and most condescending shit on this website at every opportunity.
 
No one is saying that fatigue is the only issue that IU lost, just that it spiraled a more typical loss for other reasons into a god awful loss.

Also, IU started 2-3 from 3 and was staying competitive by creating more open for shots in the paint. IU then went cold shooting, St Marys packed the defense in and the team unraveled
And trying to compare ND’s 48 hour turnaround isn’t close either. IU played 5 games in 8 days. You’d have to go back to March 2nd (including today’s game) to find the last 5 games ND played in. ND had 6 full days rest prior to their play in game.
 
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