Crean has won in the second weekend, took a small school, Marquette, to the Final Four.
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Crean has won in the second weekend, took a small school, Marquette, to the Final Four.
Not for us he hasn't...I said our coach, that probably confused you and you Marquette fandom
Which years were shown to be harder? I must have missed that post, thanks in advance
What are basing improved on? According to some here, it's all about the NCAA tournament and Big Ten titles. With Davis' own players, ZERO Big Ten titles and the following NCAA results. 2nd Round, no tournament, NIT tournament, 1st round. Is that an improving last 4 years with his players? That's going in the right direction? By the way, this is coming off also after inheriting a team with multiple top 100 players, including a top 10 recruit and several top 60 recruits for his first two years.
You say they are basically the same.
Yet in the last 5 years, IU has two outright Big Ten titles. More than Davis had in those 4. Three Sweet 16 appearances, that's three more than Davis. One missed NCAA tournament, while Davis had two (in one fewer years). How can you say the trajectory is the same? Or that it is close to the same direction? By the way, factor in what Crean started with vs Davis? The right direction argument absolutely cannot be used for Davis, which is why he was forced out.
OUR coach, is Tom Crean and he has coached several places. You didn't say OUR coach hasn't taken OUR team, you said OUR coach never does. You were wrong. OUR coach, indeed, has won all the way to the Final Four.
They are really close when you compare records at IU....minus your agenda driven cherry picking
Our coach as in while he's been our coach....our coach hasn't Marquettes coach did....a long time ago
Our coach is the same human being. His statement was wrong. If Brad Stevens became IU's coach tomorrow and you said our coach has never been to the Final Four, would you be right? Of course not, because Stevens has accomplished that at another school and would still be our coach in the present. Fact, OUR coach has been to the third weekend of the NCAA tournament coaching in a Final Four game. It just happened to be at another school, but he is still our coach.
When one does a comparison, one is expected to use their brain to compare properly, to determine if the situations were the same, the inherited talent the same? If you want to continue to strain your credibility to state those were similar, let alone "really close" in any manner, by all means continue to hang yourself. You have all the rope you need.
Our coach got married, but it happened before he was at IU, so he's not really married.
OUR coach - while at Marquette - supposedly had to rebuild that program, right. You said that a couple days ago. He went to the FF - then what did he do afterwards there?
That's the issue many have with you - you pick and choose your data. You'll pick RMK's only 3 years in the BTT against him, but ignore Crean's bad years.
Really - just like when you were asked to compare a recruit ranked as low as Grant Gelon (an un-athletic kid with a single skill going to a big-time, traditional program) and you bring up two athletes who developed their skills while playing at non-BCS schools.
Hypocrite much?
How am I ignoring Crean's bad years? I don't, but I do put them in context for the first three. Are you going to continue to whine about RMK's BTT performances? They are what they are. You can't hide them. You guys rip on BTT performances and gloss over that no one in IU history has ever stood out successfully in that tournament, including Knight.
Your Marquette afterwards question. Based on looking at their records and information online, here's what he delivered for them.
- A Final Four (first in several decades for the school)
- A conference title (second in school history)
- NBA players like Steve Novak, Dwayne Wade, Wesley Matthews, Travis Diener, Lazar Hayward
- NCAA berths in five of seven years, which hadn't been done at that school since the 1970's
- Admittance into the Big East which the commissioner of the Big East says was a result of Crean and his accomplishments - which led to additional success in the years after with recruiting, NCAA trips
- Extremely competitive in what could be argued as the greatest conference ever in the Big East with Uconn, Syracuse, WVU, Georgetown, Notre Dame, Cincinnati and the rest.
No, not much, but at times I am guilty of it. If you wish, my comments were that none of us know what Gelon will turn out to be, but that other programs have taken 1 star, 2 star kids, despite people here saying that never happens at other major programs. Those people were challenged and proven wrong. Others insisted Gelon is a 1 or 2 star kid, some of us came up with legitimate rankings that he is a 3 star kid, but that didn't stop the haters now did it?
On a public forum? Not a chance. Ask yourself these questions.
- Do you think no IU basketball players ever got into it with their girlfriend or girls in general in the 70's, 80's, 90's?
- Do you think no IU hoops players ever were out drunk in public and encountered the police?
- Do you think no IU hoops players ever got busted for weed?
- Do you think no IU hoops players ever got into a fight with other students in which police were called?
IU runs a clean program for the most part, but no program is 100% clean. I'd put us up near the top 5% in clean. There's always few minor things that truly are minor, it's impossible with the rules and the vagueness of those rules. That being said, if you think some of the items listed above didn't happen and guys weren't given a pass at times because of who they were, or that folks weren't handled internally instead of through other means, you are naive. Not many incidents, but every school has them. IU was no different. The better the program and the smaller the college town, the easier it is to handle internally. Amazing what a few tickets to the ballgame do to get guys out of trouble.
Extremely competitive? A 4th place finish and two 6th...I guess that's extremely competitive, I guess
Greatest conference ever? It wasn't the best conference nationally in any of his years
5 out 7 years? That's true, but the previous guys went 4 out of 6. They did it without the benefit of the McGuire Ctr
Conference title? Marquette was independent until 1989, sigh
First FF in several decades? 26yrs is several decades?
5 NBA players in 9 seasons, only one was a first round draft pick...I guess that chest thumping material, I guess
TC didn't rebuild MU, Oneilll did the heavy lifting..
You made the claim, not me.
They either did, or didn't. You can't even give us a time frame?
I gave you a time frame, some of which when I was there, others when I wasn't but colleagues were. Yes, colleagues talk. Colleagues share experiences.
Looks like you're lying again according to the simple google search I just did. Must have been a typo.
No 6th place finishes, let alone two. Two 5th place finishes and one 4th play finish, in a 16 team league. Yes, many experts said the greatest conference ever. I'm sure the very bottom of the conference was bad enough to pull down the rating overall, but when a conference sends 8 teams to the NCAA tournament those types of proclaimations are made. I think after he left, there was a year that 11 made it.
The McGuire center, I looked it up to see what you were talking about. Marquette officials give Crean the credit for having it built as a result of the Final Four. It was built and fully funded after their run because of the donations they got. According to one article, it was a condition of taking the job that they build the facility. Those previous coaches, apparently didn't have the juice to get that done.
Yes, several decades. They went to the Final Four in the 70's. They returned in the 00's. Several decades, like I said.
Actually it is 6 NBA players in 9 seasons, four of which played 150 games or more in the league. I looked up how many they had prior to him getting there or even since. They have had 5 players since that made it, but only two with 150 games or more in the league, in fact only two that even played 20 games. The years preceding Crean, looks like 5 players in the preceding 14 years, only two of which played in 150 games or more. Based on the 14 years preceding Crean, and the 8 years post Crean, the 6 NBA players was not only the highest in quantity, but also in contributions as a professional.
Oneill, do you mean Kevin Oneill? He had one Sweet 16 that I could find, and two NCAA appearances in five years, but took over in a not great era it appears. They then had two more over the next 5 years under Dean, with the last two years a NIT and no bid.
I typed in the words rebuild marquette and Crean, here's what came back. Their own school said he rebuilt their program. http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/news/story?id=3324439
Sorry meant 5th and that's still not extremely competitive...but with your low expectations, im sure it is
Can you link to someone that said the big east was the best ever? I'm sure someone did, you can find an idiot that says pretty much anything...but I'd love to see who the idiot was
77-03...26 years is several decades? If you say so...are you sure that isn't a bit of hyperbole?
Oneill made the same amount S16s as TC
Yeah TC is an NBA development machine, I agree dws
MUs statement was pr fluff. It was already underway when he was hired. It'd be like you getting hired at IU today and getting credit for the SEZ
With all your years in college athletics administration, you couldn't see the Crean hype machine firing-up at MU with an article like that...? I didn't have to click the link to see what was about to unfold.
For a school like Marquette, you don't think that is competitive? You are dreaming. In looking up this morning, that first year in the Big East they finished 4th, ahead of schools like Louisville, Syracuse, tied with Georgetown and Pittsburgh. The next year, tied for 5th with Syracuse, ahead of UCONN, Villanova, etc. The year after that, tied for 5th finishing ahead of Pittsburgh, Villanova, Cincinnati, Syracuse, etc.
By my calculations, in those first three years of the Big East that they were in (his only years coaching there), they won 31 conference games against coaches like Calhoun, Pitino, Boeheim, Dixon, Brey, Huggins, Thompson, Wright. Those 31 wins make them very competitive, especially for a school like Marquette that hadn't done much the previous 20+ years.
In that same time period
Syracuse 26 wins
UCONN 33 wins
Pitt 32 wins
West Virginia 31
Villanova 32
Notre Dame 31
Cincinnati 18
St. John's 17
Seton Hall 20
To suggest they weren't competitive is crazy talk. Oneill only made it to the Sweet 16, never past. Crean did.
Crean produced more NBA players at Marquette than the previous 14 years or all the years after he left. More quality players too. It isn't so much that he is a NBA development machine, it is what he accomplished at that school that hadn't put a bunch of quality guys in the NBA since the 1970's with a few one off exceptions.
The Al Mcguire center, according to what I can find on that school's site, in 2002 they still had to raise significant dollars yet to even break ground. http://www.gomarquette.com/genrel/021802aaa.html Crean was hired in 1999. After Crean guided that team to the Final Four, the money flowed in to complete the project. http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2003/04/07/story3.html and http://enquirer.com/editions/2003/04/03/spt_wwwmarqmoney.html and https://news.google.com/newspapers?...AIBAJ&sjid=fUMEAAAAIBAJ&pg=1878,5558100&hl=en
Yes, several decades. 1970's vs 2000's, several decades. Marquette had completely fallen off the map. In the 1970's they were toe to toe with us, Kentucky, UCLA as the top 5 programs in the country. For the next few decades they were nothing but an after thought. They might as well have been Loyola or DePaul. They got back to prominence when they made the Final Four and did so well in the Big East, that was under Crean.
Extremely competitive, is what you said and nope. Extremely competitive should entail competing for a title at least once
Deane and Oneill did basically the same thing, minus one fortunate tourney run, without the advantage of recruiting to the MxGuire Ctr
17yrs, four first round draft picks, yep he is an NBA developing machine!
26 years is not several decades, you can't phrase it however you wish, but it ain't gonna change the fact that it's just 2 1/2 decades
The Crean hype machine when he already left the school and the comments come from the school he just left? To play that back, the man left the school, the school put out their own information, but apparently the Crean hype machine was left in tact back at the school he left to promote the guy that is now gone. Is that what you are saying? I'd buy your argument if the statement came from IU or whatever school Crean was currently at, but not the former school that he just left, breaking his contract and leaving them high and dry.
Yes, extremely competitive, and note I said for a school like Marquette.
Crean's Final Four team didn't have the McGuire center to recruit to. It didn't even break ground yet. Keep trying there little fella.
Deane and oneill competed in the Big East? Wasn't Marquette an independent under oneill and some sham conference like the Horizon or something? You are starting to bore me again with your comments, they lack any credibility or basis in expertise. If Deane had done what Crean had done, he would have been fired. Oneill's one run was a Sweet 16, in a non conference or terrible conference environment.
2 1/2 decades. The definition of several is MORE THAN 2. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/several Did you take math? Is 2.5 (that's the same as 2 1/2) more than 2? Good night
What are you talking about? From parts of 2007 to 2010 I didn't even live in the United States.
TC was only in the big east three years. The majority of his time was spent in that same sham conference...
You didn't qualify your statement with "for a school like Marquette" originally....just another one of your shifts
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Show me the definition where that's what extremely competitive means. That's an opinion of yours, not an absolute. In my view, my opinion, they were extremely competitive. You disagree, but it's just your opinion vs mine, unless you can come up with an actual factual definition. Otherwise, you can say nope all you want, you can have your opinions all day, but you aren't entitled to make them facts.
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