The Package

[cryano]

When Woodson was hired…I didn't love it when I first heard he would be the next IU coach.

I then found out it wasnt a Woodson hire, it was a Woodson Package…and I loved the hire.

That package included Thad Matta to make sure all of the differences in college and NBA were taken care of and made aware.

That package included Dane Fife, a coach-in-waiting of sorts, to ride out the transition of Woodson’s short term and be the next IU face to lead IU basketball. Stealing Fife back from Izzo and keeping him from MichSt seemed ideal.

The Package fell apart quickly…and Woodson has fallen on his face.

 

[HoosierJimbo89]

When Woodson was hired…I didn't love it when I first heard he would be the next IU coach.

I then found out it wasnt a Woodson hire, it was a Woodson Package…and I loved the hire.

That package included Thad Matta to make sure all of the differences in college and NBA were taken care of and made aware.

That package included Dane Fife, a coach-in-waiting of sorts, to ride out the transition of Woodson’s short term and be the next IU face to lead IU basketball. Stealing Fife back from Izzo and keeping him from MichSt seemed ideal.

The Package fell apart quickly…and Woodson has fallen on his face.

Turns out college coaching experience and a track record of winning matter.

 

[bsmitty08]

It’s about building a culture and a TEAM.
This team is loaded with accolades for individuals..
3 five stars
Ballo PAC 12 player of the year
Rice PAC 12 freshman of the year

Then compare it to a roster of Iowa st, Purdue.

 

[Big Red Crimson Buffalo]

When Woodson was hired…I didn't love it when I first heard he would be the next IU coach.

I then found out it wasnt a Woodson hire, it was a Woodson Package…and I loved the hire.

That package included Thad Matta to make sure all of the differences in college and NBA were taken care of and made aware.

That package included Dane Fife, a coach-in-waiting of sorts, to ride out the transition of Woodson’s short term and be the next IU face to lead IU basketball. Stealing Fife back from Izzo and keeping him from MichSt seemed ideal.

The Package fell apart quickly…and Woodson has fallen on his face.

That package was a weird arrangement and a result of two sides of the administration coming to some kind of middle ground.
You don’t bring in a head coach and then another successful college head coach and another younger coach in waiting at the same time and not expect that to be awkward. If you have to bring in two other coaches to help the head guy you hired, then that head coach was the wrong guy for the job. Things went south when they realized that Woody and his ego didn’t want help navigating the uncharted waters and thought he could do it all on his own. So, he hired two guys that were buddies who basically sit on the bench in some kind of semi-coma and add nothing. They cannot recruit. That cannot coach. This whole thing reeked of nepotism from the start.

 

[bailey777]

That package was a weird arrangement and a result of two sides of the administration coming to some kind of middle ground.
You don’t bring in a head coach and then another successful college head coach and another younger coach in waiting at the same time and not expect that to be awkward. If you have to bring in two other coaches to help the head guy you hired, then that head coach was the wrong guy for the job. Things went south when they realized that Woody and his ego didn’t want help navigating the uncharted waters and thought he could do it all on his own. So, he hired two guys that were buddies who basically sit on the bench in some kind of semi-coma and add nothing. They cannot recruit. That cannot coach. This whole thing reeked of nepotism from the start.

Yep.

 

[OneWayStreet]

It’s about building a culture and a TEAM.
This team is loaded with accolades for individuals..
3 five stars
Ballo PAC 12 player of the year
Rice PAC 12 freshman of the year

Then compare it to a roster of Iowa st, Purdue.

Had a 30 minute conversation with a former IU coach several years ago. All I'll say is he was highly complimentary and envious (his words) of the relationship Painter had with the Purdue admin. I was somewhat surprised at the level of admiration he expressed.

 

[Thcgh]

When Woodson was hired…I didn't love it when I first heard he would be the next IU coach.

I then found out it wasnt a Woodson hire, it was a Woodson Package…and I loved the hire.

That package included Thad Matta to make sure all of the differences in college and NBA were taken care of and made aware.

That package included Dane Fife, a coach-in-waiting of sorts, to ride out the transition of Woodson’s short term and be the next IU face to lead IU basketball. Stealing Fife back from Izzo and keeping him from MichSt seemed ideal.

The Package fell apart quickly…and Woodson has fallen on his face.

No one had to steal Fife from MSU… he was on his way out. Mike Lewis is the guy you mentioned but he was unceremoniously pushed out at last minute with no warning. He had already resigned at UCLA. Fortunately Mick brought him back with a raise. He then landed on his feet at BSU to have his center pulled away. He has handled it all with class. This program loves to shit on our coaching alumni until we decided the guy with no college coaching experience was the one. I personally think Woody is a nice guy but the experiment is a total bust.

 

[HoosierJimbo89]

No one had to steal Fife from MSU… he was on his way out. Mike Lewis is the guy you mentioned but he was unceremoniously pushed out at last minute with no warning. He had already resigned at UCLA. Fortunately Mick brought him back with a raise. He then landed on his feet at BSU to have his center pulled away. He has handled it all with class. This program loves to shit on our coaching alumni until we decided the guy with no college coaching experience was the one. I personally think Woody is a nice guy but the experiment is a total bust.

Woody was hired because he is an alum, played for Bob Knight, and had NBA coaching experience (W/L record didn't matter) and NBA "connections". Juwan Howard at UM was literally the model for the Woody hire: yep.

 

[CriticArisen]

Woody was hired because he is an alum, played for Bob Knight, and had NBA coaching experience (W/L record didn't matter) and NBA "connections". Juwan Howard at UM was literally the model for the Woody hire: yep.

Juwan fit Quinn’s narrative to hire his buddy.

 

[GeorgeStrait IU]

When Woodson was hired…I didn't love it when I first heard he would be the next IU coach.

I then found out it wasnt a Woodson hire, it was a Woodson Package…and I loved the hire.

That package included Thad Matta to make sure all of the differences in college and NBA were taken care of and made aware.

That package included Dane Fife, a coach-in-waiting of sorts, to ride out the transition of Woodson’s short term and be the next IU face to lead IU basketball. Stealing Fife back from Izzo and keeping him from MichSt seemed ideal.

The Package fell apart quickly…and Woodson has fallen on his face.

Yep 100%.. And anyone who didnt see this coming once Matta left and Fife was fired was a fool.

 

[CriticArisen]

Yep 100%.. And anyone who didnt see this coming once Matta left and Fife was fired was a fool.

Dolson tried to plug the holes with Matta and Fife but Woodson was too arrogant to cooperate positively with the arrangement. When you are the King of Indiana it is an insult to think there are any holes that need to be plugged.

This board goes through phases and there is always a group of fans that energetically support a bad coach in the face of terrible results. For years there was fanatical support for the idea that you just need to recruit the most stars according to the ranking services and one-and-dones were the pinnacle of the pyramid. Then success was just getting the highest ranked players in the portal. Now I think everyone appreciates that IU cannot have a successful program without an unusually talented coach, there is no other simple recipe for success. Even now it can’t be a choice that offends those paying NIL and can’t offend the fandom purity police that are similar to the religious police in some countries.

You cannot plug an average or slightly better than average coach in to IU and expect national championships because We are IU. You need to plug in the very best coach you possibly can hire.

RMK and post-RMK has shown that the coach is the thing not the university when it comes to national championships. Three of the top NIL teams this season are Kansas (blown out by Iowa State last night), Arkansas, and IU. Each is having a tough season. The coach must be the very best or just more dissatisfaction is the likely outcome.

 

[MTBRider22]

Had a 30 minute conversation with a former IU coach several years ago. All I'll say is he was highly complimentary and envious (his words) of the relationship Painter had with the Purdue admin. I was somewhat surprised at the level of admiration he expressed.

That may be the case now, but it's definitely not always been that way. Remember MP and the Mizzou job? That was all about the admin. at PU NOT respecting him and what he had accomplished. There's a reason it went down to the 11th hour, he had one foot out of the door. Fact be told, there were some at PU that wanted him to leave, but smarter people saved it.

 

[POTFHBTFU]

That may be the case now, but it's definitely not always been that way. Remember MP and the Mizzou job? That was all about the admin. at PU NOT respecting him and what he had accomplished. There's a reason it went down to the 11th hour, he had one foot out of the door. Fact be told, there were some at PU that wanted him to leave, but smarter people saved it.

Not a very accurate characterization of the situation. Only Matt knows how close he was but it has been reported in close circles it was a way to leverage the now two presidents ago tightwad president Cordova to loosen the purse strings to pay his assistants more as he was tired of losing them. She was siphoning the BTN money to academics. It was not about Matt being disrespected or unappreciated and he was in very good with the BOT and the AD. Just a president who undervalued athletics on her way out. Cordova stepped down shortly after and Daniels righted the ship. That was 14 years ago.

 

[hookyIU1990]

Not a very accurate characterization of the situation. Only Matt knows how close he was but it has been reported in close circles it was a way to leverage the now two presidents ago tightwad president Cordova to loosen the purse strings to pay his assistants more as he was tired of losing them. She was siphoning the BTN money to academics. It was not about Matt being disrespected or unappreciated and he was in very good with the BOT and the AD. Just a president who undervalued athletics on her way out. Cordova stepped down shortly after and Daniels righted the ship. That was 14 years ago.

POTFB

 

[MTBRider22]

Not a very accurate characterization of the situation. Only Matt knows how close he was but it has been reported in close circles it was a way to leverage the now two presidents ago tightwad president Cordova to loosen the purse strings to pay his assistants more as he was tired of losing them. She was siphoning the BTN money to academics. It was not about Matt being disrespected or unappreciated and he was in very good with the BOT and the AD. Just a president who undervalued athletics on her way out. Cordova stepped down shortly after and Daniels righted the ship. That was 14 years ago.

I totally get that he was wanting more $$ in order to keep up with other programs and to keep his coaches and leveraged Mizzou to do so. I also know he was close to accepting the job because they were dragging their feet and some didn't want to budge. And it wasn't just Cordova that was the problem....Morgan Burke was a grade A tight ass.

Again, I know the current admin loves and respects Matt (they'd be idiots not to), but it wasn't always perfect.

 

[Eurocyldon]

"The package" was not what CMW wanted but he didn't say anything up front to secure getting the job. Once in the job he quickly made it clear he wasn't interested in it and quickly dismantled it.

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

You cannot plug an average or slightly better than average coach in to IU and expect national championships because We are IU. You need to plug in the very best coach you possibly can hire.

The program doesn't just need a new coach. It needs an overhaul. For all you Steven Covey fans...it needs a paradigm shift. The problem is, and long has been, cultural. That's why successive coaches have failed. If we hire a new coach with the insistence that the program's culture continue to remain a sacred cow, that new coach will also fail.

You can even see the attitude reflected here on this forum -- and on similar forums. I was touting Bruce Pearl many years ago -- maybe even back when he was at UW-Milwaukee. And I lost count of the people who scoffed at the notion. Why? Well, basically because he wasn't a cultural fit....like hiring John Daly to be the pro at Augusta National or something like that. A guy like him was...beneath us.

IMO...that is the crux of our problem.

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

"The package" was not what CMW wanted but he didn't say anything up front to secure getting the job. Once in the job he quickly made it clear he wasn't interested in it and quickly dismantled it.

I don't know what transpired with Matta. But I do remember hearing that Fife was let go because he was....engaging in political discussions with players or something like that?

Given all the years he was being groomed at MSU, I think it says something that he not only never ended up getting a head coaching job (IPFW doesn't count here), he's not coaching anywhere at present.

 

[CriticArisen]

The program doesn't just need a new coach. It needs an overhaul. For all you Steven Covey fans...it needs a paradigm shift. The problem is, and long has been, cultural. That's why successive coaches have failed. If we hire a new coach with the insistence that the program's culture continue to remain a sacred cow, that new coach will also fail.

You can even see the attitude reflected here on this forum -- and on similar forums. I was touting Bruce Pearl many years ago -- maybe even back when he was at UW-Milwaukee. And I lost count of the people who scoffed at the notion. Why? Well, basically because he wasn't a cultural fit....like hiring John Daly to be the pro at Augusta National or something like that. A guy like him was...beneath us.

IMO...that is the crux of our problem.

Agree I think. That’s what I was referring to with the purity police and the NIL donor satisfaction and relying on We are IU thinking. In the unlikely case Pearl or Beard were hired (unlikely because of all the non basketball requirements imposed by the culture) I am sure they would do well.

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

Agree I think. That’s what I was referring to with the purity police and the NIL donor satisfaction and relying on We are IU thinking. In the unlikely case Pearl or Beard were hired (unlikely because of all the non basketball requirements imposed by the culture) I am sure they would do well.

I can't speak much to Chris Beard, other than what I've witnessed from afar. But I very much can speak to Bruce Pearl. I not only watched his teams up close during his years at USI (and have followed him somewhat ever since...given his connections here), I spent a little time around him personally.

The guy's competitiveness and passion are off the charts. And I think it's obvious that this mentality is not only reflected by his players, it's demanded of them. He wins because he simply won't tolerate anything else. He doesn't need anybody else to pressure him into getting results...he demands them of himself and everybody around him.

Can anybody say with a straight face that this kind of culture defines Indiana basketball these days?

 

[CriticArisen]

I can't speak much to Chris Beard, other than what I've witnessed from afar. But I very much can speak to Bruce Pearl. I not only watched his teams up close during his years at USI (and have followed him somewhat ever since...given his connections here), I spent a little time around him personally.

The guy's competitiveness and passion are off the charts. And I think it's obvious that this mentality is not only reflected by his players, it's demanded of them. He wins because he simply won't tolerate anything else. He doesn't need anybody else to pressure him into getting results...he demands them of himself and everybody around him.

Can anybody say with a straight face that this kind of culture defines Indiana basketball these days?

I really like him as a coach.

 

[abraxis]

When Woodson was hired…I didn't love it when I first heard he would be the next IU coach.

I then found out it wasnt a Woodson hire, it was a Woodson Package…and I loved the hire.

That package included Thad Matta to make sure all of the differences in college and NBA were taken care of and made aware.

That package included Dane Fife, a coach-in-waiting of sorts, to ride out the transition of Woodson’s short term and be the next IU face to lead IU basketball. Stealing Fife back from Izzo and keeping him from MichSt seemed ideal.

The Package fell apart quickly…and Woodson has fallen on his face.

Yes, IU brought the back-injured Matta in specifically for his college head coaching experience to teach NBA Woodson the nuances of coaching the college game. With Matta’s resume including successful head coaching stints at Butler and Ohio State, it was felt the basketball gods from above had blessed us. Than add in former IU star and defensive specialist, Dane Fife, groomed under the coaching tutelage of MSU’s Izzo, and a tirade of coaching talent, envious of all of college basketball, was believed to be assembled on IU’s bench.

With Woodson’s NBA coaching ties to lure top talent to Bloomington, paired with Fife, Matta, and Woodson’s Mid-western name recognition, it was perceived to be a coupe for recruiting capable of “locking up the state for years to come”. Plus, Fife was the heir apparent to take over the reins after Woodson’s short stint, much like the now envious Keady-Painter transition.

POOF! Fife is fired and Matta “retired” to coach Butler again. Before we know what hit us, HS players IU coveted like southern Indiana’s Trey Kaufman-Renn are starring for Purdue. Woodson, left to his own devices and what does he prioritize? He purchases an abandoned Jiffy-Lube to convert into his post-game private man-cave for entertainment of his entourage as “King of Indiana” in a smoke-filled room of fat Cuban stogies and first growth Bordeaux’s of the finest pedigree.

How can something seemingly so right, suddenly become something so wrong? I can’t help but think the once inconceivable firing of Coach Knight has cursed us. What other school fires their revered HOF coach? What insidious monster infects our storied program, keeping us down for so long?

 

[Hoosierific]

The program doesn't just need a new coach. It needs an overhaul. For all you Steven Covey fans...it needs a paradigm shift. The problem is, and long has been, cultural. That's why successive coaches have failed. If we hire a new coach with the insistence that the program's culture continue to remain a sacred cow, that new coach will also fail.

You can even see the attitude reflected here on this forum -- and on similar forums. I was touting Bruce Pearl many years ago -- maybe even back when he was at UW-Milwaukee. And I lost count of the people who scoffed at the notion. Why? Well, basically because he wasn't a cultural fit....like hiring John Daly to be the pro at Augusta National or something like that. A guy like him was...beneath us.

IMO...that is the crux of our problem.

I agree, Woodson needs to go NOW, but the entire program needs a complete overhaul. Kids now remember nothing of IU's history of sucess. Update IU's brand. Repaint the floor with an updated IU logo, get different uniforms, step into the 21srpt century. Little things make a big difference in attracting 17 and 18 year old recruits. What kid is gonna wanna play for a dull 60+ coac with the personality of wet newspaper.

 

[Vern Pain]

POTFB

Harrumph