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The New York Mayor sounding

What's interesting is that I'm also from a relatively small town - Springfield, Ohio - and depending on who you talk to, there has been an influx of between 8,000 - 12,000 Haitian refugees that have settled in and around the area.

I've heard a lot of anecdotal stories about the relatively difficult time the refugees are having in assimilating into the community while also putting an unsustainable burden on the town's infrastructure to support them. My uncle said that traffic safety is a real concern. For some reason, many of the Haitians have large passenger vans and don't really know how to safely drive them on the roads (excessive speeding in town, going the wrong way down one way streets, etc). There are also reports of some refugees living 20 or more to a house and not really keeping up with the lawns or general upkeep of the house. It's rare that any of them speak English, so they largely keep to themselves.

All that said, things came to a head on the first day of school. An immigrant here illegally hit a school bus, flipping it over injuring several kids and killing one.

It's a sad situation generally, but that accident has exaserbated the situation immeasurably.

I don't know the way to the best outcome here, but it can't be close America down.

It’s to figure out how to expand legal immigration. Also, cultural issues won’t but should be considered.

Issues with Haitians are similar to the Somali problem in Minnesota. Except there are many more and they have become more violent.
 
What the **** did you think would happen? Honestly? At what point do liberals wake the **** up and realize how the real world works? A kid is dead because of insane - completely insane - policies.
This 'awakening' you speak of will never happen. It would require the useless eater left to repudiate their own existence in society, their destructive effect upon American institutions and, in effect, their own mental illness.
 
Illegals are better people than the majority of what you find in inner-city neighborhoods these days.
Agreed.
NAFTA did more damage. And just good old American greed.
And automation.

But yes, we should blame people coming here to pick beans, scrub toilets, and maybe frame houses.


How'd you feel when the best parts of our manufacturing base went overseas. I guess, at least, they are earning the money there and spending it there now. Which is better.

-----

Those are flip responses. To a point. As JDB pointed out, the vast, vast, vast majority of immigrants are hard working, socially conservative folks who just want to earn a living in a place that offers opportunity. The crime statistics for illegals are way behind those of the American poor. If that's the case we're deporting the wrong people.
Overall, I agree that these folks fill a need in our society & make positive contributions. I do worry about the effect on the educational system (which already stinks). We are seeing teachers in our community having to slow things down so kids of immigrants can catch up, due to language barriers & lack of prior education.
 
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So we should house them in a barn then…good enough for Jesus.
Well, many Biblical scholars, looking at the language, doubt Jesus was actually born in a "barn". Mary probably delivered him in a room on the bottom floor of the house, because the upper rooms (the "inn") were occupied by travelers, due to the census.
 
What the **** did you think would happen? Honestly? At what point do liberals wake the **** up and realize how the real world works? A kid is dead because of insane - completely insane - policies.
I don't totally disagree with your sentiment here, but I don't see it as a binary choice. The only alternative isn't to just jump in on strict anti-immigration policies, re-elect Trump and hope he gets Mexico to pay for a border wall.

You're 100% spot on that current policies have lent themselves to serious immigration issues. The US immigration policies do need reviewed and better infrastructure needs to be in place for places immigrants are settling.

All that said, there has always been a natural inclination to reject immigration from a fair amount of the US citizenry. I think there are people who are starting to say the quiet part out loud about the dangerous idea of replacement theory - and people like Trump and other far right conservatives are stoking those flames. I think it'd be a horrible mistake to hand over the keys to people who want to essentially shut down the country and tell refugees to go eff themselves.

And yes, Democrats need to take a hard look at what is practical, reasonable and actionable when it comes to immigration policy.
 
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It’s to figure out how to expand legal immigration. Also, cultural issues won’t but should be considered.

Issues with Haitians are similar to the Somali problem in Minnesota. Except there are many more and they have become more violent.
Anecdotally, I see your last point in real time - or at least on social media. A number of people I grew up with have posted about interactions at the grocery or in and around town with their new Haitian neighbors. To be totally honest, there is a little latent racism/xenophobia baked in there, but they're also not lying about some of the experiences they've had. It's complicated.
 
Well, many Biblical scholars, looking at the language, doubt Jesus was actually born in a "barn". Mary probably delivered him in a room on the bottom floor of the house, because the upper rooms (the "inn") were occupied by travelers, due to the census.
Freaking bureacracy man.
 
Anecdotally, I see your last point in real time - or at least on social media. A number of people I grew up with have posted about interactions at the grocery or in and around town with their new Haitian neighbors. To be totally honest, there is a little latent racism/xenophobia baked in there, but they're also not lying about some of the experiences they've had. It's complicated.

Definitely and I'm not trying to suggest that even the majority of Somalis are bad people. But, there is a huge culture shock when they were brought over during the civil war a few decades ago and much of that still exists.

They have different views on women and their roles vs. Westernized society, they are frequently having too many kids for the income they are earning and their kids get into more trouble (no different than any low income population) and their kids are highly prone to join gangs.

But, much of that is based on culture and environment. I have two close friends that have adopted boys from Africa and none of those four get into material trouble. That being said, although they may have a different skin color, they are being raised in a Western house that: 1) values education (two attorneys, one doctor, one healthcare manager between the two couples), 2) raises their kids to be respectful to others and society, and 3) have means to provide quality opportunities to their kids (think soccer camps, etc.).

These are factors are somewhat intertwined, but even those without signficant means can do #1 and #2.
 
I don't totally disagree with your sentiment here, but I don't see it as a binary choice. The only alternative isn't to just jump in on strict anti-immigration policies, re-elect Trump and hope he gets Mexico to pay for a border wall.

You're 100% spot on that current policies have lent themselves to serious immigration issues. The US immigration policies do need reviewed and better infrastructure needs to be in place for places immigrants are settling.

All that said, there has always been a natural inclination to reject immigration from a fair amount of the US citizenry. I think there are people who are starting to say the quiet part out loud about the dangerous idea of replacement theory - and people like Trump and other far right conservatives are stoking those flames. I think it'd be a horrible mistake to hand over the keys to people who want to essentially shut down the country and tell refugees to go eff themselves.

And yes, Democrats need to take a hard look at what is practical, reasonable and actionable when it comes to immigration policy.
Trumpian immigration nonsense is in direct response to left wing nonsense of covering their eyes and pretending that the world is full of rose bushes.

This country is lost without a common culture. That’s what Adams is speaking about when he warns the city will destruct. Skin color, creed, etc don’t matter. It’s why you’re here in America and how you’ll fit in that matters. As long as the left wing doesn’t understand real American culture - law abiding citizens, family, community - and why it needs to be preserved, we are completely doomed.
 
NAFTA did more damage. And just good old American greed.
And automation.

But yes, we should blame people coming here to pick beans, scrub toilets, and maybe frame houses.


How'd you feel when the best parts of our manufacturing base went overseas. I guess, at least, they are earning the money there and spending it there now. Which is better.

-----

Those are flip responses. To a point. As JDB pointed out, the vast, vast, vast majority of immigrants are hard working, socially conservative folks who just want to earn a living in a place that offers opportunity. The crime statistics for illegals are way behind those of the American poor. If that's the case we're deporting the wrong people.
Answer 1: come here the right way, that is all I would ask? I am also a proponent of taking care of your own back yard (poor Americans) before you take care of others. Would you say the people you described are being exploited? I won't go into the countless "individuals that frame houses" pour concrete and etc. that are making some a bunch of money that do not hit it a lick. lol

If we as a country do not support our manufacturing industry and other countries are a better fit (largely due to cost) then do you blame those companies for moving? The end result for any business is to make money, we had a large department for mortgage lending. Now that rates are elevated and inventory continues to be bad we are cutting bait because it is not financially responsible to continue.
 
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I don't totally disagree with your sentiment here, but I don't see it as a binary choice. The only alternative isn't to just jump in on strict anti-immigration policies, re-elect Trump and hope he gets Mexico to pay for a border wall.

You're 100% spot on that current policies have lent themselves to serious immigration issues. The US immigration policies do need reviewed and better infrastructure needs to be in place for places immigrants are settling.

All that said, there has always been a natural inclination to reject immigration from a fair amount of the US citizenry. I think there are people who are starting to say the quiet part out loud about the dangerous idea of replacement theory - and people like Trump and other far right conservatives are stoking those flames. I think it'd be a horrible mistake to hand over the keys to people who want to essentially shut down the country and tell refugees to go eff themselves.

And yes, Democrats need to take a hard look at what is practical, reasonable and actionable when it comes to immigration policy.

I think politicians love to keep immigration as it is. It's a hot button topic that they can use to sway voters. Why take that away by working across the aisle to actually fix the issue.

The immigration issue is much more fruitful for conservatives than abortion issue IMO since women can vote (undocumented immigrants not so much) and make extreme views dangerous for election day.
 
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Answer 1: come here the right way,
Incredibly diffuclt. Make is easier and more people will do it legally. It won't stop illegal immigration but you'll win over 80% of Americans and they'll then support harsher punishments for those who do it illegally.

I am also a proponent of taking care of your own back yard (poor Americans) before you take care of others.
A lot of poor Americans don't want to take care of themselves. No matter how much we try. Illegal immigration is, at the very least, an error of commission.

Would you say the people you described are being exploited? I won't go into the countless "individuals that frame houses" pour concrete and etc. that are making some a bunch of money and not hitting it a lick.
Yep and I've known a few who have been less than scrupulous. However, if the people were documented, etc. it would make that harder, no?

If we as a country do not support our manufacturing industry and other countries are a better fit (largely due to cost) then do you blame those companies for moving?
Yes and no. This is a capitalist country. It's how we make money, gather taxes, etc. But, why do we allow non capitalist countries to supply us our workforce? Feels like cheating to me and very unAmerican. also, our IP is now for sale all over the world, which is great.
 
Incredibly diffuclt. Make is easier and more people will do it legally. It won't stop illegal immigration but you'll win over 80% of Americans and they'll then support harsher punishments for those who do it illegally.


A lot of poor Americans don't want to take care of themselves. No matter how much we try. Illegal immigration is, at the very least, an error of commission.


Yep and I've known a few who have been less than scrupulous. However, if the people were documented, etc. it would make that harder, no?


Yes and no. This is a capitalist country. It's how we make money, gather taxes, etc. But, why do we allow non capitalist countries to supply us our workforce? Feels like cheating to me and very unAmerican. also, our IP is now for sale all over the world, which is great.

I would think it's safe to assume that undocumented workers aren't paying taxes. Seems like a no brainer to allow for an easier path to citizenship and thus getting people paying taxes.
 
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I would think it's safe to assume that undocumented workers aren't paying taxes. Seems like a no brainer to allow for an easier path to citizenship and thus getting people paying taxes.
That does sound like one of the best, logical options, but I think the quiet pushback would be significant from the employers who are paying those guys under the table.
 
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Definitely and I'm not trying to suggest that even the majority of Somalis are bad people. But, there is a huge culture shock when they were brought over during the civil war a few decades ago and much of that still exists.

They have different views on women and their roles vs. Westernized society, they are frequently having too many kids for the income they are earning and their kids get into more trouble (no different than any low income population) and their kids are highly prone to join gangs.

But, much of that is based on culture and environment. I have two close friends that have adopted boys from Africa and none of those four get into material trouble. That being said, although they may have a different skin color, they are being raised in a Western house that: 1) values education (two attorneys, one doctor, one healthcare manager between the two couples), 2) raises their kids to be respectful to others and society, and 3) have means to provide quality opportunities to their kids (think soccer camps, etc.).

These are factors are somewhat intertwined, but even those without signficant means can do #1 and #2.
Please define the term 'material trouble'.

I can't recall hearing that term.
 

“FEMA allocated huge ‘shelter and service’ grants to cities and states for the migrants’ —$105 million for New York City, $10.6 million for Chicago etc..”
 
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“FEMA allocated huge ‘shelter and service’ grants to cities and states for the migrants’ —$105 million for New York City, $10.6 million for Chicago etc..”
That ain’t enough money. Who is going to pay Joe Biden’s gas prices to transport all of Joe Biden’s migrants all the way to ny and Chicago
 
What's interesting is that I'm also from a relatively small town - Springfield, Ohio - and depending on who you talk to, there has been an influx of between 8,000 - 12,000 Haitian refugees that have settled in and around the area.

I've heard a lot of anecdotal stories about the relatively difficult time the refugees are having in assimilating into the community while also putting an unsustainable burden on the town's infrastructure to support them. My uncle said that traffic safety is a real concern. For some reason, many of the Haitians have large passenger vans and don't really know how to safely drive them on the roads (excessive speeding in town, going the wrong way down one way streets, etc). There are also reports of some refugees living 20 or more to a house and not really keeping up with the lawns or general upkeep of the house. It's rare that any of them speak English, so they largely keep to themselves.

All that said, things came to a head on the first day of school. An immigrant here illegally hit a school bus, flipping it over injuring several kids and killing one.

It's a sad situation generally, but that accident has exaserbated the situation immeasurably.

I don't know the way to the best outcome here, but it can't be close America down.
This is going on in a lot of places. From what I can tell, mostly in communities that have built in the last 15-20 years, the large production homes (4-5 bedroom homes) on small plots of land. You can tell because you see these bigger homes with very short driveways and lots of cars in the driveway, park partially in the yard and definitely on the street.

Brownsburg, Avon and Decatur Township have a few of these neighborhoods. Meant to attract bigger families on a limited budget, some of the homes have turned into refuge houses. Many of them cycle people through them, presumably to their own places to live.
 
That ain’t enough money. Who is going to pay Joe Biden’s gas prices to transport all of Joe Biden’s migrants all the way to ny and Chicago
“The Biden administration has spent $1 billion dollars to ease the crisis”

I wonder how much has went to securing the southern border?

The Democrats have a chance to beat the Pubs over the head with a club. But that would require deporting illegals and putting infrastructure (wall or whatever) in place
 
Please define the term 'material trouble'.

I can't recall hearing that term.

It's not a defined term, hence no capitalization. But it means they get into normal trouble - ding dong ditch, eating one chip challenge at school, etc. Not law-breaking stuff.
 
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Well, many Biblical scholars, looking at the language, doubt Jesus was actually born in a "barn". Mary probably delivered him in a room on the bottom floor of the house, because the upper rooms (the "inn") were occupied by travelers, due to the census.
My parents have a replica under the tree every year at Xmas, definitely a barn.
 
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