For those who understand things best in a picture format:
The Mueller Investigation in perspective
- Thread starter sglowrider
- Start date
For those who understand things best in a picture format:
It’s amazing how much has been accomplished in a short amount of time. Even more amazing is how there have been zero (0!) leaks from Mueller’s team. Despite jack@sses like Giuliani spreading absolute BS about what’s really happening. And, with absolute Trump die hards like Nunes trying to derail the investigation from congress.
I have no doubt that Mueller knows the stakes here, and if there wasn’t anything left to investigate, he’d shut it down.
I suspect the rest of this year is going to be a wild ride.
If Manafort is convicted, it’ll be interesting to see if he cuts a deal to avoid living in prison for the rest of his life. Even if he is somehow cleared in this trial, he’s got another one facing him in NY. And I doubt the judge monkeys with the jury like the current one has done. In other words, if that one happens, it ought to be more “normal”.
Remember, Gates hasn’t been sentenced, and Flynn hasn’t either. That’s telling. And, it looks like Roger Stone will be “in the barrel” very soon also.
Maybe I'm wrong, but as I look at the chart, it seems to represent a lot of people on the top 10 lines who were more subtle and criminally adept about not drawing attention to their possible wrong doing, in comparison to those from the Trump team making the news.For those who understand things best in a picture format:
For example, IRS Schedule B requires disclosure: "At any time during 2017, did you have a financial interest in or signature authority over a financial account (such as a bank account, securities account, or brokerage account) located in a foreign country? See instructions . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
If “Yes,” are you required to file FinCEN Form 114, Report of Foreign Bank and Financial Accounts (FBAR), to report that financial interest or signature authority? See FinCEN Form 114 and its instructions for filing requirements and exceptions to those requirements . . . . . .
If you are required to file FinCEN Form 114, enter the name of the foreign country where the financial account is located."
This correlates directly to Paragraph 29 of Manafort's indictment and doesn't look like a particular difficult question for a guy of his business experience. How many of you get confused when asked if you have a financial interest in a foreign account? We'll see soon if he has a defense.
I could be quite wrong, but I recall the other special investigations in the chart above to involve more complicated activity than the recent charges against the Trump affiliates.
Nope. I was told on here that it should be wrapped up by now.For those who understand things best in a picture format:
You mean if/when the investigation is complete (per Mueller) and he makes a report saying Trump has done no wrongdoing? Well, then it doesn’t get to Trump..and life goes on.
Justice Department guidelines say they shouldn't subpoena/indict someone up for reelection in the last couple months before election day. But Trump isn't up for reelection in 2018.
For those who understand things best in a picture format:
I don't understand why an organization like 538 would put indictments and convictions in the same bubble. Those are not the same or even similar. I also don't understnad why anybody would count indictments of individuals and organizations who are not subject to US court jurisdiction as progress unless somebody is just wanting to pad statistics.
Yeah, well, Rudy married his own cousin so I don’t take any of his advice or commentary seriously
Maybe because Mueller's mandate was to investigate RUSSIAN INVOLVEMENT in the 2016 election and they realize he takes it seriously. Only an idiot believes Mueller is in this for the money/the prestige or even animosity towards Trump. He's likely as embarrassed and mortified as some of the rest of us are that this country could elect Trump, but the job pays less than $180,000/ yr.
There are people on this board who exceed that level of income, and Mueller and all of his team basically left $Million dollar positions at high profile,prestigious law firms and took a MASSIVE pay cut. Not only that,but who would willingly subject themselves to the clown tandem of Trump/Giuliani and the circus misfits they play to with their nonsensical taunts and tweets?
Maybe he's embarrassed at what has happened to his party,those folks certainly abound. But I imagine it's deeper and maybe (like Steele) he was deeply troubled by the idea that Putin had decided to interject himself into the US body politic, and may have had unintentional (or even intentional) collaboration from a certain strong man worshipping doofus...
You’re missing the point. These things take time, and the Mueller investigation has found a LOT of evidence of foreign entanglements re: Trump’s administration in a very short amount of time.
And they’ve done it while facing a ton of obstructive tactics by both the Trump administration, and legislators that view keeping him safe their #1 priority. Paul Ryan ought to be run out of town for keeping Nunes as the head of the house intelligence committee. It’s very clear (especially after the audio at a recent fundraiser dinner was leaked) that he doesn’t care about the country safe. He only cares about keeping pubs in control of all three branches- which includes running interference from his position for Trump.
Think about this- the senate intelligence committee is still investigating, and hasn’t been compromised from within to this point. And to a senator, the senate pubs continue to support the Mueller investigation.
What does that tell you?
Nuance is not your strong point.
I'm not talking about Mueller. I am talking about the graph and the way the OP cites the graph as a comparison to the other special investigations.
What was the point of your post? Was it to discredit the chart?
I don’t see any they reason for you to post what you did. Am I off base?
My response was more to this question...
"I also don't understnad why anybody would count indictments of individuals and organizations who are not subject to US court jurisdiction as progress unless somebody is just wanting to pad statistics."
I think I read somewhere that naming specific GRU agents may serve to alert other NATO security services (like a most-wanted list). It should at least curtail the free travel of the named agents, and help to limit the effects of their meddling elsewhere, like Western Europe, for example...
I posted to discredit the point in the OP. Obviously that includes the weakness of the chart.
I guess that is a point. But I think all nations have a more discreet and more reliable method to distribute this kind of information than a special counsel announcing indictments. Even the dreaded Russians cooperated with us and gave us warnings about the Boston Marathon bombers.
There are certainly some entanglements- we may be hearing more later...
"The FBI received wiretaps obtained by Spanish police which implicate Donald Trump Jr. in a plot to meet with Alexander Torshin, according to a federal prosecutor in Spain. Torshin's aide Maria Butina is now in US jail, indicted as a Russian spy. She reported to Torshin."
https://lawandcrime.com/high-profil...leged-handler-trumps-son-should-be-concerned/
So what? As long as they used the same criteria for all the different timelines, the comparison is valid.
Maybe because the other administrations didn't have active foreign involvement. You gotta work with what you've found.
It’s pretty obvious Mueller is only in this for the fame and to screw with Trump. You can tell by Mueller’s non-stop tv appearances and incessant tweeting...
Nuance isn't your strong suit. If they did that for all the different timelines, then the graph -- which is designed for comparative purposes -- is valid.
You are assuming an indictment is comparable to a conviction. They aren’t comparable. You can indict a ham sandwich.
Clearly that’s why you did it. I kind of expected a tribal response from you. Instead of taking the chart as a measure of the probe vs other political probes, you reflexively try to discredit it.
Do you think the Mueller probe is a “witch hunt”? And if not, what’s your view on the pace and how productive it’s been to this point?
This doesn’t involve all domestic actors- it involves a LOT of foreign actors, and it takes time to track down evidence in foreign jurisdictions. And, it involves a lot of procedures to procure information- and we aren’t going to know about a lot of those until much later. All of that takes time. You’re a lawyer, that’s worked with the federal government. You should understand the “Nuances” of how this whole process plays out.
And, a lot of the key players haven’t even been brought in for questioning yet- which tells me they’re building this case like a mafia style prosecution. Work your way up the ladder, so to speak.
Also, I’m sure that Mueller and his team are acutely aware of the political sensitivity of the investigation. I really don’t think that if there was no “there” there, that they would continue on with the probe. The guy was retired previous to stepping in, and I’m sure he’d much rather continue retirement than work 15-18 hour days 6-7 days a week. It’s got to be one helluva grind, and something tells me he ain’t doing it for the money or fame. If he was, you’d see a lot more pushback against Giuliani’s insanity.
And, I’m also curious if you think that Trump should submit to an interview with Mueller? He could’ve cleared up a lot to this point, yet refuses to come in for an interview. Surely that has contributed to the probe stretching out, correct?
Again, I’ll go on record in saying that the probe should continue, and we should all accept the findings- no matter what the eventual outcome.
