The kids, the homeless guy and the LA Co

[cosmickid]

So as you read this story, try to imagine how different the response from LEO would have been if the kids were white and the homeless guy was Black. Do you honestly think we'd have pictures of LEOs pointing assault rifles at teenagers?

I know what the majority of us would say. But I'm curious about the folks who don't believe systemic racism is a problem or even exists. Thank goodness for the bystanders, who the cops finally listened to...

A synopsis from what I've read. Three black kids were waiting on a bus in Santa Clarita CA, when a homeless guy (obviously deranged) came up and asked them for crack. When the kids told him they didn't have any, he grew belligerent, pulled out a knife and started acting crazy. The kids used their skateboards to deflect any attempts he made to try and slash at them...

Meanwhile, multiple people made 911 calls to local police reporting that the guy was accosting the kids. One unidentified caller reportedly framed it as the kids were attacking the homeless guy, (Black teens attacking white guy) totally misreading the situation...

When the Deputies arrived they assumed the kids were in the wrong and at least one actually pointed an assault weapon at three unarmed teenagers, who had done nothing wrong. Multiple bystanders
informed the cops that the kids were innocent, but the cops apparently put more credence on the single report of the kids attacking the homeless man, than they did the multiple people who assured them it was the other way around. And btw, as the incident concluded the homeless man seemed to virtually disappear...

https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/black-teens-los-angeles-deputy-guns-santa-clarita-021025939.html





A postscript...

"After the teens were handcuffed, the deputies argued with the crowd over what happened and what the callers reported.

“If they weren’t doing wrong, we wouldn’t be here,” one deputy said.

Navarro said deputies could not find the man.

It was not clear if Collins recorded the video but she wrote that she didn't know how she could help her son in the aftermath."
“This is something my son and his friends will never forget,” she wrote."

Yep, no inherent bias in THAT statement...

 

[dbmhoosier]

I'm more outraged that 3 of the 4 aren't wearing masks.

 

[T.M.P.]

I'm more outraged that 3 of the 4 aren't wearing masks.

dumb

 

[IUclover]

This is really sad and disturbing.

 

[Hoopsdoc1978]

So let me get this straight-police receive conflicting calls about an assault in progress and, upon arriving, briefly detain the innocent party, apparently until they can figure out what’s going on.

And because the innocent party consisted of black teens and the guilty party was a white dude, you see this as evidence of blatant racism?

Wow.

 

[IUINSB]

So let me get this straight-police receive conflicting calls about an assault in progress and, upon arriving, briefly detain the innocent party, apparently until they can figure out what’s going on.

And because the innocent party consisted of black teens and the guilty party was a white dude, you see this as evidence of blatant racism?

Wow.

Nah, however, aiming an AR at kids armed with potentially lethal skateboards might be a bit of an over reaction.

 

[dbmhoosier]

Nah, however, aiming an AR at kids armed with potentially lethal skateboards might be a bit of an over reaction.

Well at least they didn't shoot. I guess that's progress. There was a kid in Cleveland I believe who had a toy gun and was shot by police.

 

[baileyiu]

So let me get this straight-police receive conflicting calls about an assault in progress and, upon arriving, briefly detain the innocent party, apparently until they can figure out what’s going on.

And because the innocent party consisted of black teens and the guilty party was a white dude, you see this as evidence of blatant racism?

Wow.

Do you think aiming assault rifles at teenagers is appropriate show of force?
Does the statement by cops “if they weren’t doing something wrong we wouldn’t be here” seem reasonable when they had several calls saying the homeless man assaulted the kids? Since they didn’t do “something wrong” - why point rifles at unarmed innocent teens. They had plenty of info that it was the homeless man who was in the wrong and they didn’t detain the WHITE homeless man while they “tried to figure out what’s going on”.
White man not detained - black teenagers detained at gun point while trying to figure out what’s going on = RACISM

 

[Stuffshot]

Well at least they didn't shoot. I guess that's progress. There was a kid in Cleveland I believe who had a toy gun and was shot by police.

Er, which of the following is a firearm? Good luck.

 

[StelioKantos]

Er, which of the following is a firearm? Good luck.

I take it you haven’t educated yourself on what the gun the Cleveland kid was waving around actually looked like

 

[mcmurtry66]

Do you think aiming assault rifles at teenagers is appropriate show of force?
Does the statement by cops “if they weren’t doing something wrong we wouldn’t be here” seem reasonable when they had several calls saying the homeless man assaulted the kids? Since they didn’t do “something wrong” - why point rifles at unarmed innocent teens. They had plenty of info that it was the homeless man who was in the wrong and they didn’t detain the WHITE homeless man while they “tried to figure out what’s going on”.
White man not detained - black teenagers detained at gun point while trying to figure out what’s going on = RACISM

It’s not appropriate. But remember a significant share of gang members and criminals are teenagers. I was shocked at how young they are carrying guns etc.

 

[Stuffshot]

I take it you haven’t educated yourself on what the gun the Cleveland kid was waving around actually looked like

Here's what the Cleveland gun looked like:

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/alisonvingiano/cleveland-toy-gun-shooting

I suppose you thought you were making some brilliant alt-right point and yet the Cleveland "toy" gun looks just as threatening as a real firearm, which was the exact point I was making.

You know, for a fulltime troll lacking all ability to make a convincing substantive thought other than trolling, you're just not a very good troll. Time for you to change usernames and reinvent yourself. We suggest a variation of "Randy".

 

[Hoopsdoc1978]

Do you think aiming assault rifles at teenagers is appropriate show of force?

Probably not, but it depends on the circumstances. In this instance, it’s difficult to say. We don’t know exactly what info they had, what the area was like, etc. Not nearly enough info to claim it’s OBVIOUSLY racism.

Does the statement by cops “if they weren’t doing something wrong we wouldn’t be here” seem reasonable when they had several calls saying the homeless man assaulted the kids?

They apparently also had at least one call saying the kids were doing the assaulting. Conflicting information is not ideal in a situation like this. Again, not nearly enough info to say it’s OBVIOUSLY racism.

Since they didn’t do “something wrong” - why point rifles at unarmed innocent teens. They had plenty of info that it was the homeless man who was in the wrong and they didn’t detain the WHITE homeless man while they “tried to figure out what’s going on”.
White man not detained - black teenagers detained at gun point while trying to figure out what’s going on = RACISM

According to what I read, the white dude was gone by the time they got there. So detaining him wasn’t an option.

Again, they had conflicting information. Even if the response doesn’t seem appropriate to us, seems like the police have to employ a stricter standard if they don’t know exactly what they’re walking into.

Everything that happened here has a logical explanation, unless you WANT to see racism in it.

 

[StelioKantos]

Here's what the Cleveland gun looked like:

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/alisonvingiano/cleveland-toy-gun-shooting

I suppose you thought you were making some brilliant alt-right point and yet the Cleveland "toy" gun looks just as threatening as a real firearm, which was the exact point I was making.

You know, for a fulltime troll lacking all ability to make a convincing substantive thought other than trolling, you're just not a very good troll. Time for you to change usernames and reinvent yourself. We suggest a variation of "Randy".

the fact that you call me alt right means I’m doing this right and as always I laugh, which is really the only point, thanks

 

[i'vegotwinners]

Nah, however, aiming an AR at kids armed with potentially lethal skateboards might be a bit of an over reaction.

it was beyond insane.

 

[UncleMark]

The recording of the 911 call and the dispatchers report of the calls should add some clarity.

 

[baileyiu]

Probably not, but it depends on the circumstances. In this instance, it’s difficult to say. We don’t know exactly what info they had, what the area was like, etc. Not nearly enough info to claim it’s OBVIOUSLY racism.


They apparently also had at least one call saying the kids were doing the assaulting. Conflicting information is not ideal in a situation like this. Again, not nearly enough info to say it’s OBVIOUSLY racism.



According to what I read, the white dude was gone by the time they got there. So detaining him wasn’t an option.

Again, they had conflicting information. Even if the response doesn’t seem appropriate to us, seems like the police have to employ a stricter standard if they don’t know exactly what they’re walking into.

Everything that happened here has a logical explanation, unless you WANT to see racism in it.

White dude gone - not according to Los Angeles County Sheriff in the video - “officers detained those allegedly involved”. Sounds like white dude must have been there when they arrived, but they didn’t point guns at him. Difficult for many whites to see Racism, even when it stares them in their face.

 

[cosmickid]

Probably not, but it depends on the circumstances. In this instance, it’s difficult to say. We don’t know exactly what info they had, what the area was like, etc. Not nearly enough info to claim it’s OBVIOUSLY racism.


They apparently also had at least one call saying the kids were doing the assaulting. Conflicting information is not ideal in a situation like this. Again, not nearly enough info to say it’s OBVIOUSLY racism.



According to what I read, the white dude was gone by the time they got there. So detaining him wasn’t an option.

Again, they had conflicting information. Even if the response doesn’t seem appropriate to us, seems like the police have to employ a stricter standard if they don’t know exactly what they’re walking into.

Everything that happened here has a logical explanation, unless you WANT to see racism in it.

So ONE call blamed the kids and multiple callers reported the crazy homeless guy, including the BWW Mgr. And the kids were at the BUS STOP, which would sort of argue against the whole "roving gang of black kids" narrative that was supposedly advanced by ONE caller...

So why do YOU feel the cops disregarded the multiple calls blaming the homeless guy and all the people on the scene? It's likely the person who called blaming the kids was someone who drove by and totally misread the situation.

So do you feel the cops would have read the scene the same way if the races of the folks involved were reversed? I think that's a pretty hard sell, but you're welcome to try and advance that claim...

You claim I'm imagining racism- I think you're pretty obviously ignoring it. Do you really think multiple calls of a Black homeless guy attacking kids and a SINGLE call blaming white kids for attacking a Black homeless man would have resulted in cops pointing weapons at 3 white kids? If so, not really sure what country you live in...

 

[Hoopsdoc1978]

White dude gone - not according to Los Angeles County Sheriff in the video - “officers detained those allegedly involved”. Sounds like white dude must have been there when they arrived, but they didn’t point guns at him. Difficult for many whites to see Racism, even when it stares them in their face.

Seems like there’s a discrepancy in the account somewhere.

It’s says in the OP-“Navarro said deputies could not find the man”. Also, if he was still there, he would have been arrested.

Why do you believe that all cops are so irredeemably racist that this is the conclusion you automatically jump to?

 

[UncleMark]

So why do YOU feel the cops disregarded the multiple calls blaming the homeless guy and all the people on the scene? It's likely the person who called blaming the kids was someone who drove by and totally misread the situation.

Again, it's not like the calls are going directly to the cops. They're going to the 911 call center, and the dispatchers are relaying that info to the cops. I'd want to hear those incoming call recordings and also hear the dispatchers' messages.

 

[Hoopsdoc1978]

So ONE call blamed the kids and multiple callers reported the crazy homeless guy, including the BWW Mgr. And the kids were at the BUS STOP, which would sort of argue against the whole "roving gang of black kids" narrative that was supposedly advanced by ONE caller...

So why do YOU feel the cops disregarded the multiple calls blaming the homeless guy and all the people on the scene? It's likely the person who called blaming the kids was someone who drove by and totally misread the situation.

So do you feel the cops would have read the scene the same way if the races of the folks involved were reversed? I think that's a pretty hard sell, but you're welcome to try and advance that claim...

You claim I'm imagining racism- I think you're pretty obviously ignoring it. Do you really think multiple calls of a Black homeless guy attacking kids and a SINGLE call blaming white kids for attacking a Black homeless man would have resulted in cops pointing weapons at 3 white kids? If so, not really sure what country you live in...

Dude. These kids were briefly detained, questioned, and released.

You can make a pretty good argument that the level of force used was completely over the top but that’s a different argument. That’s not racism. Unless you believe that the cops somehow found out beforehand what races were present and then armed themselves accordingly. Which is completely ridiculous.

I’ll ask you the same thing I asked bailey-why do you believe that all cops are so irredeemably racist that this is the conclusion you instantly jump to?

 

[baileyiu]

Seems like there’s a discrepancy in the account somewhere.

It’s says in the OP-“Navarro said deputies could not find the man”. Also, if he was still there, he would have been arrested.

Why do you believe that all cops are so irredeemably racist that this is the conclusion you automatically jump to?

I don’t believe all cops are racists. Do you believe that there aren’t any racist cops?

i don’t have to believe that all cops are racist in order to identify racism when I see it.

 

[Hoopsdoc1978]

I don’t believe all cops are racists. Do you believe that there aren’t any racist cops?

i don’t have to believe that all cops are racist in order to identify racism when I see it.

Alright then, what made these cops racist? And saying “well, they wouldn’t have treated white kids the same way” isn’t a reason. That’s an opinion.

If they were racist, they were pretty freaking dumb about it. There were only about 100 people standing around.

Isn’t it much more likely that this is something close to SOP when they enter a situation like the one we’re discussing?

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

Alright then, what made these cops racist? And saying “well, they wouldn’t have treated white kids the same way” isn’t a reason. That’s an opinion.

If they were racist, they were pretty freaking dumb about it. There were only about 100 people standing around.

Isn’t it much more likely that this is something close to SOP when they enter a situation like the one we’re discussing?

It almost sounds like you are willing to concede that those cops were acting in a racist manner, and that the actions of people they had come in contact with in the past justified their actions.
Almost.

 

[Hoopsdoc1978]

It almost sounds like you are willing to concede that those cops were acting in a racist manner, and that the actions of people they had come in contact with in the past justified their actions.
Almost.

I’m not really sure what this is supposed to mean, but no, it’s not like that at all.

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

I’m not really sure what this is supposed to mean, but no, it’s not like that at all.

Oh, okay.

 

[mcmurtry66]

It almost sounds like you are willing to concede that those cops were acting in a racist manner, and that the actions of people they had come in contact with in the past justified their actions.
Almost.

This is the reality and exactly what happens, Bulk. the actions of the people many cops come in contact with in the past doesn't "justify" their actions but explains their actions, and often explains how they became racist. if you spend every single day for 25 years dealing with suspects and criminals and the lion's share of same are black it shapes how you think, builds stereotypes, and engenders racism. cops profile and have preconceived notions. here's an example. years ago i was at a traffic light going to a golf tourney with a cop buddy. white cop. there was a white kid early 20's on the corner kind of looking around. i thought to myself "nice day to go out for a walk and wander around a bit." and as i was thinking that my cop buddy goes "what's this boob getting ready to do." what cops deal with on a daily basis shapes who they become. and many become racist.

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

This is the reality and exactly what happens, Bulk. the actions of the people many cops come in contact with in the past doesn't "justify" their actions but explains their actions, and often explains how they became racist. if you spend every single day for 25 years dealing with suspects and criminals and the lion's share of same are black it shapes how you think, builds stereotypes, and engenders racism. cops profile and have preconceived notions. here's an example. years ago i was at a traffic light going to a golf tourney with a cop buddy. white cop. there was a white kid early 20's on the corner kind of looking around. i thought to myself "nice day to go out for a walk and wander around a bit." and as i was thinking that my cop buddy goes "what's this boob getting ready to do." what cops deal with on a daily basis shapes who they become. and many become racist.

Thank you.
Now, why is that so hard for some to say?

 

[mcmurtry66]

Thank you.
Now, why is that so hard for some to say?

I don’t know.

 

[Hoopsdoc1978]

Thank you.
Now, why is that so hard for some to say?

That’s not at all what I was saying.

I’m asking what, specifically, makes this situation an example of racism.

If you have any ideas, please share.

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

That’s not at all what I was saying.

I’m asking what, specifically, makes this situation an example of racism.

If you have any ideas, please share.

You explained it.
Thank you.

 

[Hoopsdoc1978]

You explained it.
Thank you.

So you have nothing.

I figured as much.

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

So you have nothing.

I figured as much.

?
I asked a question (sort of). You answered it. Why do I need to have anything?
Oversensitive much?(You don't have to answer that one.)

 

[Hoopsdoc1978]

?
I asked a question (sort of). You answered it. Why do I need to have anything?
Oversensitive much?(You don't have to answer that one.)

No, you didn’t ask a question. You made a statement based on a really bad assumption, which was addressed by another poster, at which point you asked why what that poster said was so hard to say.

You didn’t answer my question at all.

I really hope you don’t ride other people about bad faith posting.

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

No, you didn’t ask a question. You made a statement based on a really bad assumption, which was addressed by another poster, at which point you asked why what that poster said was so hard to say.

You didn’t answer my question at all.

I really hope you don’t ride other people about bad faith posting.

Mccurtry absolutely responded to the point I was making. The point I made was, in my mind, exactly what you said...that prior experience was responsible for how those cops responded (SOP).
He just had the integrity to step in and honestly respond, and I appreciated it, and now, I better understand it.
How's that for good faith?

 

[Hoopsdoc1978]

Mccurtry absolutely responded to the point I was making. The point I made was, in my mind, exactly what you said...that prior experience was responsible for how those cops responded (SOP).
He just had the integrity to step in and honestly respond, and I appreciated it, and now, I better understand it.
How's that for good faith?

I meant standard operating procedure for police departments, you dork. IE, the way cops are TRAINED to deal with such situations.

Also, you still haven’t answered my question.

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

I meant standard operating procedure for police departments, you dork. IE, the way cops are TRAINED to deal with such situations.

Is it okay/accurate if I take "dork" as a kind of friendly josh? I will anyway.
So, what did you think of mccurtry's response to my post?

 

[Hoopsdoc1978]

Is it okay/accurate if I take "dork" as a kind of friendly josh? I will anyway.
So, what did you think of mccurtry's response to my post?

There’s some truth to what he said, sure.

I don’t see how you can say that’s what happened here though, especially when there seems to be a more logical explanation.

Now, how about answering my question?

 

[Hoopsdoc1978]

That’s not at all what I was saying.

I’m asking what, specifically, makes this situation an example of racism.

If you have any ideas, please share.

Anyone?

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Anyone?

Have you ever seen the series "What Would You Do"? I have only seen a couple episodes but one reminds me of this.

The producers hired two groups of young actors. One group was White, one Black. Both went through a park "vandalizing" things. I quote vandalize because the items were placed there by the producers to be vandalized so no real vandalization took place.

The group of Black kids had the police called on them by several citizens. The group of White kids elicited one phone call.

But what really made the episode was this. A couple members of the family of one of the Black kids slept in their car at the other end of the park while the kid carried out his job. Two people called the police on them. So Blacks sleeping in a car received more 911 calls than White kids vandalizing a car.

Here is the episode

The police arrived in the OP case and immediately drew guns on the Black kids. Now there was one 911 call that said they were to blame. The problem might be the one caller, the problem might be the police, but there is a problem.