His claimed success rate hasn't been validated either statistically or scientifically.
The blame game
- Thread starter hunkgolden
- Start date
He might have 100%. Jim Banker might have 100% with his magic elixer. We do not "know" what the success rate is until their are legitimate trials. Anyone in America can announce a 100% success rate.
Correct . . . we won't know what "success" means, until we define it.
I am not sure why there is a subgroup of Americans who are always sure the experts are wrong. We have people who have spent their lives studying infectious disease, I am in favor of letting them lead.
If I were on Apollo 13 and they told me, "we have two possible solutions. One comes from our team here in Houston and one from a guy in Kansas who once built a model rocket, which do you want to try?" I feel safe I would trust the team in Houston.
It may be Hydroxychloroquine is a silver bullet. And if people near death want to try it, fine. But the more it is touted as a perfect cure, the more people will reject testing other drugs. It sets us back if the silver bullet is not Hydroxychloroquine.
Good grief. We aren’t talking about some guy in Kansas. We are talking about a physician who sees and treats COVID-19 patients and who has observed improvement with the use of this drug. It could be coincidental, but he is convinced there is a cause and effect.
Ego. Americans are mad with ego.
Everything we do is a mirror to ourselves, and technology is making it worse. Acknowledging true expertise where it lies would diminish our sense of self . . . this is the health epidemic that few are aware of, fewer yet have any idea what to do about it . . .
. . . and the very people we historically would look to to help with these issues - pastors, priests, rabbis, imams, holy people of all kinds - are all too often among those most affected by it.
Certainly not dismissing it out of hand. But reading through the other commentary on the article I posted.... I'm not counting on it being the magic elixir.... Though we all hope that it is.
He may be right, but are yousaying there is not a doctor in the US that would lie about the effectiveness to get their 15 minutes of fame? That is why we need to test. If he is right, GREAT,
Understood. But at best his experience, observations and conviction are anecdotally based . . . nothing about his experience is scientifically supported . . . yet.
And if you think people are dismissing it out of hand, the claim of a 100% success rate might be the reason. There's no such thing.
I think this is pretty much how all off label drug use begins. Obviously no guarantees here. But there are also no guarantees for drugs having gone through double blind studies.
"Off-label prescribing can expose patients to risky and ineffective treatments," medical ethics professor Rebecca Dresser and Joel Frader, MD, write in the fall 2009 issue of The Journal of Law, Medicine & Ethics.
"Fen-Phen is one of the best examples of off-label use with a poor outcome. The FDA approved medications fenfluramine hydrochloride and phentermine hydrocholoride as individual, short-term treatments for obesity. But doctors eventually began prescribing the two drugs together after an article describing the cocktail's dramatic weight loss effects appeared in a medical journal and numerous mainstream publications.
"That off-label drug combination had devastating results: Many patients ended up with severe, and potentially deadly, heart valve damage, an outcome that triggered a multi-billion dollar lawsuit. In 1997, the FDA ordered Fen-Phen off the market."
https://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/features/off-label-drug-use-what-you-need-to-know#2
Are you saying all off label use should be banned?
Damages and lawsuits abound over drugs that have gone through trials too.
What limits should there be? Are old west snake oil salesmen just the same as an FDA approved usage?
Off-label use of drugs and medical devices happens all the time. I worked for a medical device manufacturer. I knew about a LOT of off-label use of our devices. It's accepted. Doctors have discretion on that. It's not uncommon.
Speaking of blame game, Trump is absolutely bludgeoning the press right now in his press conference.
Did I say that? Of course not . . . I merely quoted a medical ethics expert and an MD quoted on WebMD, which said that off-label use poses risky and ineffectual usage.
You might be a smart guy, but you have zero wisdom. None.
That's the last refuge of the incompetence demonstrated by the GOP. If they're screwing up, it's the media's fault.
And Americans are buying it, and repeating it, because it's easier than figuring out what the answers are.
You were the one who put words in my mouth. Discussions with you deserve to be terminated . . . because of you.
Buh-Bye.
You’ve brought up snake oil salesmen often along with a guy from Kansas in this thread. I don’t think that is who we are talking about. At least not me. I’m talking about credentialed and licensed physicians who risk personal financial destruction and loss of their credentials for bad practices. I think their professional judgment is entitled to some deference and respect.
Sure you didn’t end it when you committed your own crime of misrepresentation? Again.
What deference and respect does that professional judgment deserve?
Marv isn't saying that the professional judgment doesn't deserve respect; he's just saying that "entitled to some respect" doesn't require us to suspend skepticism and scientific inquiry.
You're the idiot implying that scientific validation is entirely unnecessary for the use of Hydroxychloroquine to treat corona virus. How stupid is that?
So no pro would lie? You accuse climate scientists of that in every debate. You know insurance fraud exists, amount doctors.
We have experts on this. What on earth is wrong with engaging them? Are we going to create a "one doctor said" policy on medicine?
I hope this guy is right, but why do we have epidemiologists if we are going to sideline them in a pandemic?
There are professional engineers who say the twin towers could not possibly collapse from an airplane strike. Why would they risk their careers, so I guess they must be right.
We have experts, us them.
The guy in the video is a doctor currently treating this epidemic. I bow to his expertise in this instance, not yours. Realizing it isn't a magic pill at this point, 700 patients and zero deaths so far is well worth looking into. Why is that unreasonable? Did you watch the clip?
Why do you think Fauci and the Surgeon General aren't telling doctors to start prescribing this ASAP?
This discussion is off the rails by a far margin.
Let's all hope this treatment is successful, and leave it at that.
Let's all hope this treatment is successful, and leave it at that.
The experts you trust are also investing time and money on this very trial. Their restraint doesn't preclude my right to be proud and excited about the progress we as a race (human) are making. The linked video explains the doctor's theories about how his method works. The entire course of treatment for twenty bucks!
He is an innovator and possesses the kind of mind required in this kind of battle. He should be celebrated, not discounted or discredited. To think there are thousands more like him in clinics around the world aiming their brainpower at beating a single virus.
I hope you spent some time outdoors today. It was beautiful here in Henryville, IN. We walked my ACD 4 miles in the state park, then went for a little drive. Saw zero gravediggers. I think we're gonna be ok.
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I am confideent that we will find effective treatments. No one has more faith in our scientists than I. I am just trying to determine why conservatives are so certain THIS is that treatment. Again, it may be, but I don't see the Surgeon General spiking the football. I don't see Fauci in the TD dance. I will have more faith in any treatment when I see that.
I had an exciting time out today, the first mow. Yippee. But I do listen to audible while mowing, so I do enjoy it.
Bullspit. I have survived everything that's ever happened to me since the day I was born. I am also undefeated.
Why do you bother, Marv? COH is supporting this simply because Trump is pushing it. All the rest is blather.
This doctor is 100% successful - 699 out of 699 - treating his patients to prevent their deaths (see his definition of success in the article). Those decrying that outcome or belittling it might consider how to tell the family of someone dying from the virus who is denied it. That's the choice, not danger. The drug has been used since 1934 for malaria without harm. Go tell the kids that grandpa is gonna die. We sent 10,000 doses to NYC. Cuomo was happy to get them What do you supposed they're doing with those, storing them? NO, they're using them to save lives. Criticize that.
Its being used by treating physicians all over the country with very favorable results. Some of them look in the tv camera and tell you so.
I may not have seen every response here but those I have seen appear to come from posters who wish failure on the President's effort. Relish failure. Ghastly responses.
Can someone repost the link you're referring to? I've seen write ups but no video. Thanks.
Serious question, because I wanted to do the same. I know state parks are open, and free, and my wife and I have talked about driving down to Brown County (for example) to hike some trails. So, how does one do that with travel restrictions?
I know we won't get pulled over, but she is much more of a rule follower than I am, and I might need to convince her we won't end up in some backwater hoosegow.
Fauci has and has said on tv that he'd use it for himself and family but never mentions names of individual doctors who aren't present.
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