That Smith kid for Purdue…
- Thread starter Warison
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Remind the class who was president when Purdue last won a championship?
I was watching some SEC basketball games yesterday and it was apparent that they are playing a superior game than the B1G. Good news for IU is that they are now in a conference where it won’t be hard to go to the top with the right coach. That is if they can lure some top level players into the B1G.
I'd take Nash over Stockton..In all phases of basketball..
Both top shelf though..
Part of the superior game is due to the awful, "that's Big Ten basketball," officiating we see year in and year out.
Maybe - or like many others with his talent has been told his whole life how special he is and he doesn’t have to earn PT
Woody’s tenure at IU is only slightly better than Gene’s final seasons at Purdue. That was absolutely bottom of the barrel for the university . I remember when IU presented him a plaque during his last game at Assembly Hall and it was a pitiful sight. Woody’s done. It won’t get to that point.
Absolutely true but there was something special about Knight vs Keady - I miss that
Not to be Clint Eastwood get off my lawn guy but that’s when the rivalry was so damn good
Gene is a Hall of Fame coach, sure his last years were not pretty, but they where a hell of a lot better than Creans first 3 years, so yeah IU got to that point! In fact IU has only made 6 NCAA tournaments in the last 16 years, and currently are a BIG MAYBE bubble team this year! IT is already at that point at IU, no matter how you try to polish your little pickle of mental gymnastics!
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Speaking of coaching tenures, some interesting stats. If you spend any time listening to Matt Painter he sounds a lot like Bob Knight, technically (without all the BS). Painter's career is halfway through Knight's total coaching career. Paint is on track for more total career wins and almost exactly the same number of conference championships and sweet 16s. You have to discount the conference tourney because it largely wasn't around over Knight's career, but he has 2 of those. He's behind Knight in Elite 8s, Final Fours and National Championships. Knight was a 4 time NCOY vs Painter's 1 (he was runner up last year which would have tied those numbers up). Paint has really dropped the ball with NCAAT opportunities, that he'll never get back. In this era, I don't know if a coach can last 40 years, tbh. It's getting pretty messed up. But even with 21 years to go, he's gonna have a tough time matching Knight's NCAAT record. But, he's running an enviable program up there with some eerily similar numbers.
I fully agree and for two great coaches, it was kind of sobering to see how they ended their tenures at these two rival schools. Knight fired and Gene suffering 3 seasons that resembled nothing like the teams he assembled the previous 22 years. The plaque presentation to Keady at Assembly Hall was a touching acknowledgment of appreciation for what a great rivalry there was for 2 decades between these two coaches. As much as they seemed to dislike each other, it was so interesting to see the photos of the two visiting with each other as Knight began to decline.
Our coach sucks right now. No doubt about that. Coaching matters. If IU is able to hire a solid coach, they are right back in the thick of things. Despite your notion that IU is dead and buried. Basketball programs can easily turn around overnight with just a few key players and a good coach.
I never thought that much of Keady maybe because RMK was the standard of reference. In tournament games he looked like he would pee his pants from stress and it affected his teams.
Painter is a very, very good basketball coach. And his results fit Purdue's long history of competitive B10 play, with very little relevance or competitiveness nationally.
He plays for BYU, averaging 9 pts/game while hitting 40% from 2, 31% from 3 and 48% FT's.
Sadly for IU, it works both ways, as we have seen for the last quarter century.
It does, but I think this notion that this next hire will seal our fate, one way or another, is overly dramatic, and likely not even close to accurate.
When IU finally hires the right guy...even if its not this next guy, or even the guy after that... our machine will fire back up, and it'll be one of the best programs and environments, in all of college bball again. Also, coaches like Davis and Crean prove that Indiana doesn't "need" to have RMK/Coach K levels of coaches to have elite moments again. So I suspect anyone we choose this next time, will energize the fan base, and there will be special moments again, even if he doesn't get the program fully back to where many of us remember it being.
I did not say IU was dead and buried, I responded to the dude that tried to state that IU would never get to GK's last days of his career! IU passed GK's history with the first 3 years of Creans years! Fact is IU even with the BK history can and has sucked better than any team in the BT. Your history does not make the program super human! I for one don't understand why schools like Kentucky, Kansas, UCONN and UCLA continually don't show their Champion Banners like only IU does! It sucks now that UCLA is the top National dog in the BT, and Purdue is the King of the BT!
And to think he would have crawled here had we offered. Horrible miss by our staff.
Seriously? Our fans that sit here and try to downplay their success sound ridiculous. I guess losing to a mid in the NIT is better?
All of those programs have Natty Banners proudly hanging in their arenas, just like Indiana does. Kentucky has had "stars" and things like that on uniforms various times in their history. They all market their titles, similarly to what IU does. Naturally, we're clinging to ours a little more, in some ways, because its been so long since we had them. But I think the main reason you typed what you did is because, like many Purdue fans, you're obsessed with IU, so you notice what we're doing more than what those other programs you mentioned are.
There's a very clear, multiple decades long established dynamic going on that gives Purdue a higher "floor" than IU...but gives IU a higher "ceiling than Purdue". When we have a decent coach again, we'll have similar B10 level results to Purdue, but will become much more relevant nationally again.
And that will take some of the oxygen away from Painter and Purdue, when that happens.
They definitely had a mutual respect for one another and the sideline antics and intensity is something that I miss in most of today’s games.
How old are you?
In my lifetime that I actually remember, we haven’t won anything of relevance, according to your standard of national championship or bust. I feel desperate pounding my chest for IUs championships since I was 4 the last time they won one.
You’re not being fair and honestly make our fanbase sound petty and unintelligent.
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I don't know how Keady ran his program for the entire time he was Purdue's coach...never really thought about it much. But I did go watch a series of their practices in the late 90s. To say the practices didn't match what I thought his teams would practice like, would be an enormous understatement. Keady was fiery on the sidelines during games, but his practices, during that time, had more commonalities with bad AAU practices I've witnessed, than organized, disciplined practices that RMK's program was famous for.
Our college coach actually cancelled the last couple visits we were supposed to have, because the ones we did see were so bad.
North, that’s an interesting story I would not have expected re GK.
The first P5 practice I attended as an adult, the head coach had the days practice regimen scribbled on a piece of notebook paper in pencil.
46...I do remember the national title game. I remember B10 championships. I remember 3 final fours. When you compare B10 titles, Final Fours, NCAA appearances...since RMK, it isn't nearly as lopsided in Purdue's favor as one might assume, or as they make it out to be. Purdue has racked up a lot more total wins since then, because they've had much better consistency, and yes, they've had marginally better results in those "accomplishments".
In my "lifetime"... In order of importance...
National Titles: Indiana 2, Purdue 0
Final Fours: Indiana 4, Purdue 2
Big 10 Titles: Indiana 10, Purdue 12
RMK v Keady... In order of importance...
National Titles... RMK 3, Keady 0
Final Fours... RMK 5, Keady 0
B10 Titles... RMK 11, Keady 6
Since RMK... In order of importance...
National Titles ... IU 0, Purdue 0
Final Fours... IU 1, Purdue 1
B10 titles... IU 3, Purdue 5
Staggering differences there...give me a break.
Except under your same logic the past two decades has demonstrated that Painter is continuing to build up his program to be relevant at a National level. I get your argument about decades long - but you are going pretty far back in history now - almost four decades to when IU was at the top. Programs clearly change and there comes a point in time when they are looked at differently - both nationally and within the State. Painter is a tremendous talent evaluator and talent developer and honestly his in-game coaching continues to improve. I love the “well it’s only because you had Edey” talking point that Purdue was in the Championship game last year. Well who recruited, developed and made that guy dominant when he was available to any team? I love the rivalry - clearly one of the best in the nation. Hopefully your next coach is the right one because the fan base deserves some relief.
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We saw 3 separate practices...Keady walked the sidelines, and honestly didn't say a ton. Lots of scrimmaging, lots of jacking around by the players. Keady would stop the practices periodically and cuss at them...they'd laugh it off...and continue back doing the same things. One of the practices, they were scouting an opponent, and spent some time working on plays and stuff. It was very unorganized, and lacked much of the "fiery" nature that Keady showed during games. These were all "early season" practices, for what its worth. Maybe he changed them as the season progressed?
I have heard reports that Dana Altman at Oregon is 100% hands on tactician in their practices. To the point that the asst coaches sit around. Ready to help but Altman considers it to be his job.
Had he ever been hired, I think the IU fan base would have enjoyed his coaching. And at IU he would have been successful.
No disrespect, but you’re literally going back to the 80s to make this work in our favor. That screams desperation, IMO.
We have a ton of problems right now. Pounding your chest about the 80s and minimizing Purdues success does not help our program move on from the past.
Tons of different ways to approach it, I'm sure. And to be fair to Keady/Purdue...he did win a lot of games.
But I don't think its any revelation that more attention to detail, more structure, more disciplined practices usually produce higher level teams. The Purdue practices that I saw, lacked those things. Getting towards the end of his career...maybe he was burnt out already at that point? No clue?
You have a distorted sense of where Purdue sits. King of the BT? In the past 15 years, Purdue has 5 regular season championships. Michigan State has 5. IU has 2. Wisconsin 3. Purdue has had a great recent stretch. They also went a period of 7 years where they didn’t win it with Painter.
If you had banners to show, you’d display them. IU is no different than other universities in hanging banners in their arena. We don’t have to stoop to hanging a banner that was delivered to the school by a bread truck, but whatever floats your boat.
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I'm not pounding my chest about anything. You used "in my lifetime"...I used that as a comparison, along with some others, for reference sake...including "since RMK"...which is probably the one that's most relevant to your argument.
Without going back and checking IU's entire 100+ year history, I feel confident in saying the 24 years since RMK, have been among the worst couple decades in the history of IU basketball...and Purdue fans would probably categorize as some of the "best" couple decades in their history.
Same amount of Nattys
Same amount of Final Fours
They have 2 more B10 titles than IU does.
Sooooo impressive!
Why, in GOD's name, would we, as IU fans, want to strive for THAT? It is better than where we are now, obviously. Its not necessary to continually acknowledge that, its obvious. But IU has the resources, the history, for "more" to be a realistic hope for our fanbase. And if, along the way to "more" we have similar results to what Purdue is having, cool, that's great. Better than we're having now. I'll take it. But I hope its just as stop on our path to being like IU was RMK and prior, again.
This explains why you find Woodson’s results acceptable. Have read your posts defending Woodson and justifying results. You have no baseline to set the expectations. The rest of us have actually lived through dominant basketball years. Unless you were there, you don’t know what the standard should be. So, it’s understandable that if this is all you have lived through, it’s considered acceptable.
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