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Teaching and Coaching FT Shooting

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SixthFlagComing

Freshman
Dec 15, 2012
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We've beaten it to death here and we all know our free throw shooting is p*$$ poor and unacceptable. What I don't understand is why our kids, who have terrible mechanics, aren't taught, coached...heck even forced to change those mechanics. It's not like I'm a coach or anything, but even a moronic novice knucklehead like myself can look at the shooting mechanics of many of our players and see they aren't built for success. Trey Galloway's wrist looks like it's moving sideways before he follows through. Xavier's push shot should have been discontinued in the sixth grade. Trayce doesn't bend his knees at the free throw line and just flicks the shot with his wrists.

I love Woody, but I hate...ABSOLUTELY HATE...what he said in the presser yesterday after the game about having to "get the kids more confident" about making shots.

Maybe I'm crazy but for many of our players, I don't think it's an "emotional" thing like confidence. I think it's a very teachable, coachable mechanics thing that has to be fixed. The sooner the better...Just coach them. Teach them. That's what you're paid to do!
 
SixthFlagComing said:
We've beaten it to death here and we all know our free throw shooting is p*$$ poor and unacceptable. What I don't understand is why our kids, who have terrible mechanics, aren't taught, coached...heck even forced to change those mechanics. It's not like I'm a coach or anything, but even a moronic novice knucklehead like myself can look at the shooting mechanics of many of our players and see they aren't built for success. Trey Galloway's wrist looks like it's moving sideways before he follows through. Xavier's push shot should have been discontinued in the sixth grade. Trayce doesn't bend his knees at the free throw line and just flicks the shot with his wrists.

I love Woody, but I hate...ABSOLUTELY HATE...what he said in the presser yesterday after the game about having to "get the kids more confident" about making shots.

Maybe I'm crazy but for many of our players, I don't think it's an "emotional" thing like confidence. I think it's a very teachable, coachable mechanics thing that has to be fixed. The sooner the better...Just coach them. Teach them. That's what you're paid to do!
Click to expand...
A friend of mine took a close-up pic of TJD shooting a FT. He had the ball in the palm of his hand. Have you ever tried to shoot a FT with the ball in the palm of your hand and not with the fingertips on the ball?

Alford - the gold standard for FT shooters - had a routine he did before every shot - socks, shorts, 1-2-3, swish. These guys need a routine that gets them ready to shoot FTs, because right now, Woody's right - they don't look confident. Whatever MSU is doing to teach FT shooting worked pretty damn well - let's get Fife to figure it out.
 
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SixthFlagComing said:
We've beaten it to death here and we all know our free throw shooting is p*$$ poor and unacceptable. What I don't understand is why our kids, who have terrible mechanics, aren't taught, coached...heck even forced to change those mechanics. It's not like I'm a coach or anything, but even a moronic novice knucklehead like myself can look at the shooting mechanics of many of our players and see they aren't built for success. Trey Galloway's wrist looks like it's moving sideways before he follows through. Xavier's push shot should have been discontinued in the sixth grade. Trayce doesn't bend his knees at the free throw line and just flicks the shot with his wrists.

I love Woody, but I hate...ABSOLUTELY HATE...what he said in the presser yesterday after the game about having to "get the kids more confident" about making shots.

Maybe I'm crazy but for many of our players, I don't think it's an "emotional" thing like confidence. I think it's a very teachable, coachable mechanics thing that has to be fixed. The sooner the better...Just coach them. Teach them. That's what you're paid to do!
Click to expand...
Easier said then done. If Steph Curry coached me up I wouldnt have been a D1 level shooter. i agree miserable mechanics are rampant but no magic switches to fix it in college.
 
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CriticArisen said:
Easier said then done. If Steph Curry coached me up I wouldnt have been a D1 level shooter. i agree miserable mechanics are rampant but no magic switches to fix it in college.
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No 'magic'. Just hard work and emphasis. And these are already D1 players - they can be taught FT shooting.
 
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They can at least shoot the same way every time and stay on the line after first shot. You don't need to slap hands on every shot especially missed ones. If you hit the first don't move your feet.
 
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Al Durham is shooting FTs at 85% this yr for Prov. He’s the only one I had any confidence in the past few yrs. I can’t figure out Stewart barely scratching 50% on the season. Mind boggling. TJDs shot is flat, too much line drive. But guys like RobP should be better than sixty some % for their careers. Kopp is an 85% career shooter but he has no game to get to the line. Right now he doesn’t have enough game to stay in the game.
 
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DANC said:
A friend of mine took a close-up pic of TJD shooting a FT. He had the ball in the palm of his hand. Have you ever tried to shoot a FT with the ball in the palm of your hand and not with the fingertips on the ball?

Alford - the gold standard for FT shooters - had a routine he did before every shot - socks, shorts, 1-2-3, swish. These guys need a routine that gets them ready to shoot FTs, because right now, Woody's right - they don't look confident. Whatever MSU is doing to teach FT shooting worked pretty damn well - let's get Fife to figure it out.
Click to expand...
I’d expect Fife to already know … fixing mechanics is a summer activity in my opinion.

That said, Getting the ball off the palm and onto finger tips, (consistent knee bend) and having a kangaroo court for breaking foul line routines can be done in season. Those seem to reflect lack of focus to me.
 
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Chicago-bound Hoosier said:
Al Durham is shooting FTs at 85% this yr for Prov. He’s the only one I had any confidence in the past few yrs. I can’t figure out Stewart barely scratching 50% on the season. Mind boggling. TJDs shot is flat, too much line drive. But guys like RobP should be better than sixty some % for their careers. Kopp is an 85% career shooter but he has no game to get to the line. Right now he doesn’t have enough game to stay in the game.
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Rob was mid to high 80's from the line in HS as I remember.
 
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CriticArisen said:
Look at this free throw-WOW

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That's bad. lol

I remember when Butch Carter was a freshman, he was shooting a FT at Minnesota and was so nervous, he dropped the ball behind him when he went to take the FT.

Then, when he was a senior, he hit 2 FTs - with no time remaining - to send the game into OT and eventually win the Big Ten championship against Ohio State.

These guys can be taught to shoot FTs.
 
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DANC said:
That's bad. lol

I remember when Butch Carter was a freshman, he was shooting a FT at Minnesota and was so nervous, he dropped the ball behind him when he went to take the FT.

Then, when he was a senior, he hit 2 FTs - with no time remaining - to send the game into OT and eventually win the Big Ten championship against Ohio State.

These guys can be taught to shoot FTs.
Click to expand...
I remember both games and like I said sometimes possible. Do you really think TJD hasn't received good coaching on his free throws at IU?
 
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CriticArisen said:
I remember both games and like I said sometimes possible. Do you really think TJD hasn't received good coaching on his free throws at IU?
Click to expand...
I honestly don't know. The evidence suggests not, but I'm sure they'd all been instructed on the technical mechanics.

What I think they lack is the mentality, which is where I think a routine or mantra or whatever it is they need to get them in the mental state to shoot. In short, confidence. But there are ways to build confidence. Alford used to make himself do fingertip pushups after missing FTs when he was growing up. These guys need to be focused and intent on making FTs, not just sauntering up to the line and slapping hands with their buddies.
 
DANC said:
That's bad. lol

I remember when Butch Carter was a freshman, he was shooting a FT at Minnesota and was so nervous, he dropped the ball behind him when he went to take the FT.

Then, when he was a senior, he hit 2 FTs - with no time remaining - to send the game into OT and eventually win the Big Ten championship against Ohio State.

These guys can be taught to shoot FTs.
Click to expand...
Heck, don't you remember Archie's shooting skills video? :)
 
SixthFlagComing said:
We've beaten it to death here and we all know our free throw shooting is p*$$ poor and unacceptable. What I don't understand is why our kids, who have terrible mechanics, aren't taught, coached...heck even forced to change those mechanics. It's not like I'm a coach or anything, but even a moronic novice knucklehead like myself can look at the shooting mechanics of many of our players and see they aren't built for success. Trey Galloway's wrist looks like it's moving sideways before he follows through. Xavier's push shot should have been discontinued in the sixth grade. Trayce doesn't bend his knees at the free throw line and just flicks the shot with his wrists.

I love Woody, but I hate...ABSOLUTELY HATE...what he said in the presser yesterday after the game about having to "get the kids more confident" about making shots.

Maybe I'm crazy but for many of our players, I don't think it's an "emotional" thing like confidence. I think it's a very teachable, coachable mechanics thing that has to be fixed. The sooner the better...Just coach them. Teach them. That's what you're paid to do!
Click to expand...
lol ................
 
Crayfish57 said:
They can at least shoot the same way every time and stay on the line after first shot. You don't need to slap hands on every shot especially missed ones. If you hit the first don't move your feet.
Click to expand...
I have said this to myself many times. When I coach my teams I do not allow them to give 5s at the line. In order for that to work out you would have to do it in practice as part of their routine and imo that takes too much time to get enough FTs in. Never do in a game something you don’t do in practice. Get a routine and stick to it.
 
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I’m not saying this is definitely the team who started the whole hand slapping thing during FTs, but the first team(s) I remember doing it, was Digger’s ND teams of around ‘79-‘80 that seemingly were on NBC every Sunday. Woolridge, Paxson, Hanzlik, et al. I don’t recall IU doing it in the 80’s, but who knows. 90’s maybe?? I may have just become numb to it since everyone was doing it.
 
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SixthFlagComing said:
We've beaten it to death here and we all know our free throw shooting is p*$$ poor and unacceptable. What I don't understand is why our kids, who have terrible mechanics, aren't taught, coached...heck even forced to change those mechanics. It's not like I'm a coach or anything, but even a moronic novice knucklehead like myself can look at the shooting mechanics of many of our players and see they aren't built for success. Trey Galloway's wrist looks like it's moving sideways before he follows through. Xavier's push shot should have been discontinued in the sixth grade. Trayce doesn't bend his knees at the free throw line and just flicks the shot with his wrists.

I love Woody, but I hate...ABSOLUTELY HATE...what he said in the presser yesterday after the game about having to "get the kids more confident" about making shots.

Maybe I'm crazy but for many of our players, I don't think it's an "emotional" thing like confidence. I think it's a very teachable, coachable mechanics thing that has to be fixed. The sooner the better...Just coach them. Teach them. That's what you're paid to do!
Click to expand...
Here is a contrast for You. Fox had the Villanova-Seton Hall Game on before ours. As I was watching the final minute, Seton Hall was forced to foul. The announcer said they fouled the lowest percentage free thrower on the floor - at 74%. I looked it up this morning Villanova was shooting 82% for the year as a team. Does Jay Wright only recruit players Who shoot 70% or more coming out of High school? This doesn't happen by accident.

I noticed Galloway also yesterday. It looked like his weight and momentum weren't directed toward the Basket and the ball was being released sideways out of his hand to the right. The easy thing to say is that these kids have unlimited access to Cook Hall and can practice free throws anytime they want. However, if a Player already has bad mechanics, all He is doing is reinforcing bad Mechanics and Form.
 
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DANC said:
I honestly don't know. The evidence suggests not, but I'm sure they'd all been instructed on the technical mechanics.

What I think they lack is the mentality, which is where I think a routine or mantra or whatever it is they need to get them in the mental state to shoot. In short, confidence. But there are ways to build confidence. Alford used to make himself do fingertip pushups after missing FTs when he was growing up. These guys need to be focused and intent on making FTs, not just sauntering up to the line and slapping hands with their buddies.
Click to expand...
I was thinking about this some more and Butch Carter didnt have bad shot mechanics out of high school. I agree he needed more concentration and mental toughness etc. It wasn't a matter of rebuilding his shot and also improving his focus. He was never a great shooter but mechanics weren't bad.

I started thinking of players with bad shot mechanics and Quinn Buckner came to mind. They had other shooters and that wasn't his role but bad mechanics and a bad shooter but still a great player. Any way his freshman year from the line he hit .594 and as a senior .488.

In almost all cases it is late to rebuild someones shot in college. Their brains have played say 20,000 hours shooting that way and are resistant to a big change. You might be able to tweak it but major rebuild has low chance of success. The problem with this team is you can't have any great role players like Buckner because there are no reliable shooters.

I think you can see it during games and from game to game. They tend to rotate between players trying to find someone that can knock a few down. Too often they cannot find that player.
 
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The definition of stupid is practicing the same stupid thing over and over and expecting a different result next time. Just as in baseball where they have a pitching coach and a batting coach, basketball (IU basketball) needs a shooting coach. It is so embarrassing and yes stupid to see the same result from the free thrown line and 3 point line happening so consistently. What are they practicing to get a different result? It is amazing how high school kids (not necessarily the 3,4, or 5 star players) are knocking down 3s and making free throws at much higher percentages than most of our players. If we are going to practice bad habits maybe we should suspend practice.
 
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Crossblock said:
Here is a contrast for You. Fox had the Villanova-Seton Hall Game on before ours. As I was watching the final minute, Seton Hall was forced to foul. The announcer said they fouled the lowest percentage free thrower on the floor - at 74%. I looked it up this morning Villanova was shooting 82% for the year as a team. Does Jay Wright only recruit players Who shoot 70% or more coming out of High school? This doesn't happen by accident.

I noticed Galloway also yesterday. It looked like his weight and momentum weren't directed toward the Basket and the ball was being released sideways out of his hand to the right. The easy thing to say is that these kids have unlimited access to Cook Hall and can practice free throws anytime they want. However, if a Player already has bad mechanics, all He is doing is reinforcing bad Mechanics and Form.
Click to expand...
It's not always about mechanics though if you're a good shooter. I had great mechanics when I played and a guy named Larry Bird had horrible mechanics, but was an incredible shooter. The difference was I'm 5'9 and he was 6'10 and could get away with shooting like it's boy's club, for most of these guys that are 6'3 or so, they just need to square up and keep your head up, jump is important and concentrate on the rim, don't worry about the ball is in your hand. Some of it could be taught, but I think being somewhat farsighted and practicing matters more than any coaching. I could shoot lights out, problem was at my size I would have had to have AI speed to get a clean look in D1, I think we have a bit of that going on, just not talented enough
 
I don't want to do the easy thing and blame AAU Travel ball for this. However there may be a connection. When You play travel ball with limited practice time, You don't devote the necessary time to fundamental drills and improving techniques. The games You play in become slam dunk/3 point contests, with everyone trying to get on a highlight roll to gain the attention of recruiters. Nobody seems to care whether You can shoot FTs.

I posted this somewhere a couple of years ago. The Indy Star ran an Article about a kid Who played for Wabash or De Pauw who just had a consecutive free throw streak of 95 snapped. If I remember correctly, over 2 years He made something like 190 out of 200. Played for an Indiana High School never highly recruited. Don't know if He could get his shot off consistently against Big 10 Competition or defend effectively. However, I do know this.

1. You don't get to the free throw line 200 times in that period of time by standing out at the 3 point line waiting for a pass.

2. at any level of Play, the distance from the Basket to free throw Line is 15 feet, and the Height of the Rim is 10 Feet.

I would be tempted to give a Kid like this a scholarship and use Him as a late game specialist. If You have a lead in the game with 3-5 Minutes left, put Him on the Court and force the opponent to play through Him and Foul Him, or let Him stand there and kill clock.
 
We shoot 66% opponents 76% from the line. Probably cost us several wins. I still do not get how galloway but be such a horrible shooter. He will be very easy to guard next year when he plays heavy minutes. They will just clog the middle on him.
 
BAMAFORIU said:
The definition of stupid is practicing the same stupid thing over and over and expecting a different result next time. Just as in baseball where they have a pitching coach and a batting coach, basketball (IU basketball) needs a shooting coach. It is so embarrassing and yes stupid to see the same result from the free thrown line and 3 point line happening so consistently. What are they practicing to get a different result? It is amazing how high school kids (not necessarily the 3,4, or 5 star players) are knocking down 3s and making free throws at much higher percentages than most of our plathat I was very good yers. If we are going to practice bad habits maybe we should suspend practice.
Click to expand...
Shooting is maybe not something that can be taught/corrected when you're out of HS and considered good enough otherwise to be at IU. I was forced to fix my form, the stomach pull stuff early on, because we had a really hard ass Boilers fan coach that said no PT if you can't fix that and he was right. That shit gets blocked as the competition improves and if you're not shooting correctly. I was just as good or better after a summer of practicing it. It can be fixed, maybe for some, but someone like Galloway, there might be too much muscle memory involved to fix it. I just think it needs to be fixed by the time you're about 12 to shoot it right
 
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Crossblock said:
Here is a contrast for You. Fox had the Villanova-Seton Hall Game on before ours. As I was watching the final minute, Seton Hall was forced to foul. The announcer said they fouled the lowest percentage free thrower on the floor - at 74%. I looked it up this morning Villanova was shooting 82% for the year as a team. Does Jay Wright only recruit players Who shoot 70% or more coming out of High school? This doesn't happen by accident.

I noticed Galloway also yesterday. It looked like his weight and momentum weren't directed toward the Basket and the ball was being released sideways out of his hand to the right. The easy thing to say is that these kids have unlimited access to Cook Hall and can practice free throws anytime they want. However, if a Player already has bad mechanics, all He is doing is reinforcing bad Mechanics and Form.
Click to expand...
Collin Gillespie and Justin Moore are their top scorers. I cant find their high school stats but Gillespie was quite the shooter in high school in PA and a nice stroke. He hit 80% from the line his freshman year and 91% so far this year. Justin Moore played for DeMatha (Hunter Dickinson his team mate and Moore was top rated player in MD) and hit 71% as a freshman and 79% so far this season.
go_iu said:
It's not always about mechanics though if you're a good shooter. I had great mechanics when I played and a guy named Larry Bird had horrible mechanics, but was an incredible shooter. The difference was I'm 5'9 and he was 6'10 and could get away with shooting like it's boy's club, for most of these guys that are 6'3 or so, they just need to square up and keep your head up, jump is important and concentrate on the rim, don't worry about the ball is in your hand. Some of it could be taught, but I think being somewhat farsighted and practicing matters more than any coaching. I could shoot lights out, problem was at my size I would have had to have AI speed to get a clean look in D1, I think we have a bit of that going on, just not talented enough
Click to expand...
I agree. You can have bad mechanics and be a great shooter and I always think of Keith Wilkes but high percentage of great shooters have good mechanics and high percentage with bad mechanics are not good shooters. There are exceptions.

Pretty sad to blame 13" as a consideration in not having an NBA HOF career. :)
 
go_iu said:
It's not always about mechanics though if you're a good shooter. I had great mechanics when I played and a guy named Larry Bird had horrible mechanics, but was an incredible shooter. The difference was I'm 5'9 and he was 6'10 and could get away with shooting like it's boy's club, for most of these guys that are 6'3 or so, they just need to square up and keep your head up, jump is important and concentrate on the rim, don't worry about the ball is in your hand. Some of it could be taught, but I think being somewhat farsighted and practicing matters more than any coaching. I could shoot lights out, problem was at my size I would have had to have AI speed to get a clean look in D1, I think we have a bit of that going on, just not talented enough
Click to expand...
My deficits were mainly slow twitch muscle fibers so no hops and my muscle memory always had amnesia. I practiced long and hard to be a mediocre high school player. I often got attitude awards though because I did love the game. :)
 
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CriticArisen said:
I was thinking about this some more and Butch Carter didnt have bad shot mechanics out of high school. I agree he needed more concentration and mental toughness etc. It wasn't a matter of rebuilding his shot and also improving his focus. He was never a great shooter but mechanics weren't bad.

I started thinking of players with bad shot mechanics and Quinn Buckner came to mind. They had other shooters and that wasn't his role but bad mechanics and a bad shooter but still a great player. Any way his freshman year from the line he hit .594 and as a senior .488.

In almost all cases it is late to rebuild someones shot in college. Their brains have played say 20,000 hours shooting that way and are resistant to a big change. You might be able to tweak it but major rebuild has low chance of success. The problem with this team is you can't have any great role players like Buckner because there are no reliable shooters.

I think you can see it during games and from game to game. They tend to rotate between players trying to find someone that can knock a few down. Too often they cannot find that player.
Click to expand...
Wow, I knew Quinn wasn't a good shooter but no idea it was that bad especially under 50% as a sr.
 
Crayfish57 said:
Wow, I knew Quinn wasn't a good shooter but no idea it was that bad especially under 50% as a sr.
Click to expand...
Yup. Epically bad free throw shooting and on a national championship team. The worst women’s team this season is at 54% (Winthrop I think it is) and worst men’s team is Sam Houston State at 58%.
 
I would take a comparative look at our strength training. Buckner is an illustrative example. He also played DB in football until his senior year. Pretty muscle bound for a guard, even in those days. It affected his shot. We've all seen the before and after pics if Race. Word is he was a good shooter in HS.
 
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One of the greatest scorers of all time at iu had THE WORST mechanics, Jimmy Rayl. Think of Larry bird bringing it back, only more, and letting go before before his hands got in front of his body
 
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CriticArisen said:
Easier said then done. If Steph Curry coached me up I wouldnt have been a D1 level shooter. i agree miserable mechanics are rampant but no magic switches to fix it in college.
Click to expand...
I was no great b-ball player, but i could always shoot FTs. It's just practice with form/stroke mechanics. Its not hard. I saw guys every year at the IU Intramural FT contest shot 9 of 10 who looke like the only thing they did for exercise was lift a can of beer. It disgusts me that they are so bad. to a degree it is confidence, but the confidence only comes from a ton of practice, over and over. There are very few guys who shouldn't be able to shoot FTs (Shaq was bad, Wilt was bad before that) but most guys should be able to make 7 or 8 out of 10 easy.
 
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