Sure looks to me as if we've handed the country over to a few billionaire white men and Vivek.

[larsIU]

Cool.

Now (as a renowned virologist, cancer researcher, or whatever you say you're doing for a living now), compare your salary to those who clean your labs and the hallways and post the result.

Had to look it up. I am 6:1 (including my bonus) from the lowest paid person in my organization. But that lowest person is entry level and hourly.

People think the grind of being a CEO is a cakewalk. I can see why they die early. **** that shit.

It's a helluva lot closer to 1:1 than it is to 475:1. My best guess would be about 5:1.

The point was the 475:1 number is ridiculous and far out of line with the entire world.

What I do for a living is pretty clear, asshole. I am a medicinal chemist. I have worked in pharma and academia, in many disease areas, including cancer, neurodegeneration, pain, and (most recently) antiviral drug discovery (not in the area of vaccines, but in therapeutics). IU PhD 1991.

Sorry. Couldn't help myself.

I took used to enjoy drawing and art work with the kid. Ahh, I miss those days.

That $75,000 raise (some say $70,000) is coming from Twitter Twits and it's false. The max raise would be $6,600 and they haven't had a cost of living increase for 15 years. The law is automatic, but those in Congress have been block that raise since 2009. No skin off my nose if they get it or not, but I'd really like to see an effort to argue for or something accurately. There's almost no effort here with many will to believe what their favorite Twitter Twits say without bothering to check on the facts:

"Members of Congress earn salaries of at least $174,000, with more allocated for some leadership positions. A cost-of-living increase is calculated based on private-sector wages. The maximum allowed for next year is 3.8%, which would bring the base salary to $180,600, according to the CRS report."

Members of Congress rolled a pay raise for themselves into big must-do spending bill • Idaho Capital Sun

Members of Congress are in line for their first pay raise since 2009 if they pass a spending measure that would avert a government shutdown.

idahocapitalsun.com

It's in several articles and in the CRS report as it says above.

We have a Congress problem in that we don't pay them enough to get enough people to consider public service as a career. Or, as murt notes, we treat Congress like the Founderes believed it should be treated and have a rotation of those able to forego their career for 2-8 years for the betterment of the country and to represent their district.

The latter just isn't going to happen and if it did it would just put a bunch of already rich people into Congress.

Now, if the federal government were to shrink or become more focused on a few responsibilities (and before you textualists get a hardon, my list includes single payor health care), it could be possible to have being a Congressman return to being a part time gig. I hope that's where it's headed

 

[Digressions]

It will be interesting to see how long the populists defend CEO compensation. These are interesting times in which we live.

 

[Bill4411]

That’s interesting Uncle Mark. I guess it’s all to everyone’s perspective. When I think of Elon, his bank account never even comes to mind for me. I think more about his entrepreneurial spirit in creating the world’s first electric car company. I think if someone who NASA has on speed dial because they need help getting people back to earth. I think of someone who provides internet as an option to people in rural and depressed areas. I think of someone who has the balls and moxy and bank roll to buy a controlled messaging and speech suppression social media company that had become a paid sponsorship wing of digital media. Dude invented a rocket that lands itself and does multiple trips. He brought free speech back. Honestly, love him or hate him, whatever your position is, i think history will look back at Elon and be on the Mount Rushmore of the worlds most influential people in modern history. Dude is working to fix our government spending problem. What we have is not sustainable. How can anyone be against that?
I am not as up to speed on what Vivek has accomplished to generate his wealth, but my guess is that if we looked under the hood, what we would find is something similar to Elon that does not appear on a balance sheet or a stat sheet. Would probably find someone who is extremely intelligent, hard working, well spoken, innovative, demonstrates strong leadership, is hard working and respectful of diverse thought and opinion. Probably would find many of these characteristics in almost all
Highly successful people. Success in the US and the business world usually leads to wealth accumulation.

World's first electric car company? You may want to do a little more research on that one.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

The only way to get it back is if they give it back. You think Leon Mush, the human Trump louse, is going to? Will Bezos, Zuck, Alt, Thiel once they've all reached their "agreement"?

The general tone of Trump 2025 is to dissolve agencies that, imho, are there to protect the average Joe Blow American like me, and to allow industry, and billionaires, to run unimpeded.

These dudes are discussing the FDIC, folks. Are these dudes going to insure our money personally? They could, you know.

I keep saying we can't be this credulous but I already know that we are.

You post as if that is a bad thing.

The deep state is not a conspiracy theory. It is real and is deeply corrupt and anti-democratic.

 

[ButHerEmails]

World's first electric car company? You may want to do a little more research on that one.

Has Elon sent a thank you card to Obama, or mentioned all the government contracts he makes money from? Just asking.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

You post as if that is a bad thing.

The deep state is not a conspiracy theory. It is real and is deeply corrupt and anti-democratic.

Exactly what is the “deep state?” Who is part of it? Do they deliberately join it? Who in government isn’t part of it? Who leads it? What is their mission? What is its goal? How does it operate? What are its tactics? If I’m going to try to fit in with this MAGA version of the party I need to know these things, though I suspect 99 percent of the MAGA faction can’t answer any of those questions.

 

[Ohio Guy]

Exactly what is the “deep state?” Who is part of it? Do they deliberately join it? Who in government isn’t part of it? Who leads it? What is their mission? What is its goal? How does it operate? What are its tactics? If I’m going to try to fit in with this MAGA version of the party I need to know these things, though I suspect 99 percent of the MAGA faction can’t answer any of those questions.

Simply put, it’s anyone who doesn’t kiss Trump’s ass. That includes, but isn’t limited to, politicians, judges, members of the media, celebrities, former members of the Trump administration and now pollsters apparently.

 

[snarlcakes]

average pay ratio, company CEO / average company worker, 2023 stats:

Japan: 11 / 1
Germany: 12 / 1
France: 15 / 1
Italy: 20 / 1
Canada: 20 / 1
S. Africa: 21 / 1
UK: 22 / 1
Mexico: 47 / 1
Venezuela: 50 / 1
USA 475 / 1

It will be interesting to see how long the populists defend CEO compensation. These are interesting times in which we live.

I don't defend or care what CEO compensation is. I will say U. S. CEOs are the best in the world and anyone investing in U.S. stock markets benefit from them.....aka all of us on this board.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Exactly what is the “deep state?” Who is part of it? Do they deliberately join it? Who in government isn’t part of it? Who leads it? What is their mission? What is its goal? How does it operate? What are its tactics? If I’m going to try to fit in with this MAGA version of the party I need to know these things, though I suspect 99 percent of the MAGA faction can’t answer any of those questions.

The deep state is a function, not a thing. Your questions are not relevant.

All of government can be in the deep state or none of it, depending on the function.

Lois Lerner resigned in disgrace and the IRS apologized for excessive scrutiny of conservative organizations. That was corrupt deep state function. But it isn’t accurate to say the IRS is the deep state, it may or may not be.

Biden with this executive order unleashed an overwhelming deep state effort. But all who participated are not always deep staters.

Executive Order on Further Advancing Racial Equity and Support for Underserved Communities Through The Federal Government | The White House

By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, it is hereby ordered

www.whitehouse.gov

In short the deep state is bureaucracy run amok. But that isn’t the same thing as saying government bureaucrats do not serve an important purpose.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

The deep state is a function, not a thing. Your questions are not relevant.

All of government can be in the deep state or none of it, depending on the function.

Lois Lerner resigned in disgrace and the IRS apologized for excessive scrutiny of conservative organizations. That was corrupt deep state function. But it isn’t accurate to say the IRS is the deep state, it may or may not be.

Biden with this executive order unleashed an overwhelming deep state effort. But all who participated are not always deep staters.

Executive Order on Further Advancing Racial Equity and Support for Underserved Communities Through The Federal Government | The White House

By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, it is hereby ordered

www.whitehouse.gov

In short the deep state is bureaucracy run amok. But that isn’t the same thing as saying government bureaucrats do not serve an important purpose.

So, it's the ultimate boogie man and nothing can ever be done to defeat it?

I don’t believe the deeply invested MAGAs here would answer the question the way you did.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

So, it's the ultimate boogie man and nothing can ever be done to defeat it?

Boogie man my ass.

I’ve seen it and dealt with deep state crap for decades. It’s undemocratic, and nowadays more corrupt than ever. There are a gazillion things to be done about it. SCOTUS took two important steps last term. Musk and Vivek hopefully will keep the ball rolling.

Im doing my annual Serbian Povitica today. Checking out.

Cheers!

 

[hookyIU1990]

Im doing my annual Serbian Povitica today. Checking out.

I hope you're able to share some pictures.

I used to date a Serbian girl and went to her family Christmas one year. Amazing food and the Povitica was right up my alley. The only exception to my standing rule - no nuts in baked goods.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

Boogie man my ass.

I’ve seen it and dealt with deep state crap for decades. It’s undemocratic, and nowadays more corrupt than ever. There are a gazillion things to be done about it. SCOTUS took two important steps last term. Musk and Vivek hopefully will keep the ball rolling.

Im doing my annual Serbian Povitica today. Checking out.

Cheers!

So, there is no leadership, no hierarchy, no mission, and no known membership. I can’t wrap my arms around an “entity” like that. Don’t have any idea why we should hate it or be terrified of it. Bad individuals, like Lerner, are easy to understand and deal with. Nebulous entities aren’t.

Cheers!

 

[outside shooter]

I’ve seen it and dealt with deep state crap for decades.

 

[Digressions]

The deep state is a function, not a thing. Your questions are not relevant.

All of government can be in the deep state or none of it, depending on the function.

Lois Lerner resigned in disgrace and the IRS apologized for excessive scrutiny of conservative organizations. That was corrupt deep state function. But it isn’t accurate to say the IRS is the deep state, it may or may not be.

Biden with this executive order unleashed an overwhelming deep state effort. But all who participated are not always deep staters.

Executive Order on Further Advancing Racial Equity and Support for Underserved Communities Through The Federal Government | The White House

By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, it is hereby ordered

www.whitehouse.gov

In short the deep state is bureaucracy run amok. But that isn’t the same thing as saying government bureaucrats do not serve an important purpose.

Is Elon part of the deep state, or just a beneficiary?

 

[Mas-sa-suta]

Does it not trouble you that Trump is surrounding himself with people who are known primarily for their wealth?

Wealth is almost always the result of success. Success is almost always a result of intellect, effort, sacrifice, determination and will.

.."people who are known primarily for their wealth?"

Don't let envy consume you....

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

Wealth is almost always the result of success. Success is almost always a result of intellect, effort, sacrifice, determination and will.

.."people who are known primarily for their wealth?"

Don't let envy consume you....

You aren’t envious of Putin’s wealth. How about Soros’ billions? Oprah’s?

 

[Digressions]

So, there is no leadership, no hierarchy, no mission, and no known membership. I can’t wrap my arms around an “entity” like that. Don’t have any idea why we should hate it or be terrified of it. Bad individuals, like Lerner, are easy to understand and deal with. Nebulous entities aren’t.

Cheers!

The Fifth Risk is a good book. I'm sure there are plenty of terrible people inside of our government, just like any organization. Hopefully, the bad people are removed.

The bureaucracy does however deal with a great many things. Most of the time it is in the public's interest. But these people aren't in the public's eye until they're needed.

The scary part is when we elect someone to burn it all down, and they choose grifters to start the fire, like Ryan Zinke. Does anyone really think he knows more about preventing/containing wildfires than the bureaucrats that have been trying to do the job for decades?

This country has known about/debated our healthcare issues since at least back into the 80's, maybe longer. Yet, we elected a man who tried to repeal and replace ACA countless times in his first term. And when asked about a replacement, he had "concepts of a plan."

There’s waste, fraud, and bad people. Let’s do away with them. But we've elected an idiot. Don’t lose sight of that.

 

[IUINSB]

Wealth is almost always the result of success. Success is almost always a result of intellect, effort, sacrifice, determination and will.

Or daddy leaves you over $400 million.

 

[aajohn2000]

World's first electric car company? You may want to do a little more research on that one.

Maybe not the first, but it’s the first that became a name brand and mass produces. Every other mfg is a second mover. That, is my point. Does that diminish his impact? You are funny.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

So, there is no leadership, no hierarchy, no mission, and no known membership. I can’t wrap my arms around an “entity” like that. Don’t have any idea why we should hate it or be terrified of it. Bad individuals, like Lerner, are easy to understand and deal with. Nebulous entities aren’t.

Cheers!

You keep thinking like a military officer. The deep state doesn’t have a structure, chain of command, lines of authority, or leaders. I sense you wanna make this about MAGA.. It’s not about MAGA. It’s been a growing problem for decades. It’s like a toxic gas that permeates the vast and growing administrative bureaucracy. It’s trends left because that is the bureaucratic DNA, meaning more and more stifling rules, regulations and actions. It means government of, for, and by rulers, not people. It means arrogant know-it-alls. It means government watchdogs that play along. It’s defined by what it does instead of by what it is.

Help is on the way.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

You keep thinking like a military officer. The deep state doesn’t have a structure, chain of command, lines of authority, or leaders. I sense you wanna make this about MAGA.. It’s not about MAGA. It’s been a growing problem for decades. It’s like a toxic gas that permeates the vast and growing administrative bureaucracy. It’s trends left because that is the bureaucratic DNA, meaning more and more stifling rules, regulations and actions. It means government of, for, and by rulers, not people. It means arrogant know-it-alls. It means government watchdogs that play along. It’s defined by what it does instead of by what it is.

Help is on the way.

First, I still don't think what you say is what MAGAs generally think. They want to put faces on the "deep state." Patel even has a hit list of government people (past and present) that he thinks are part of the "deep state."

Second, what you describe make little sense. Of course, I'm all about not being overly regulated. However, the idea that this is what those in government set out to do and that makes them the "deep state" is nonsensical. The way to address over regulation is for Congress and SCOTUS to shut it down. Congress has oversight of the Executive agencies - they should do their jobs.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

I'm sure there are plenty of terrible people inside of our government, just like any organization. Hopefully, the bad people are removed.

It’s not just bad people. The system is corrupt. People are part of the issue, but you won’t solve the problem by culling some people without also doing substantial changes to how the administrative state works. And the problem isn’t just about governance of people. The crap government imposes on itself is another huge issue.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

However, the idea that this is what those in government set out to do and that makes them the "deep state" is nonsensical

I think this is very naive. I’ve seen what government does up close. It’s getting worse.

Look at the overwhelming EU bureaucratic regs. . There are reasons why Europeans who are part of the EU are losing ground.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

I think this is very naive. I’ve seen what government does up close. It’s getting worse.

Look at the overwhelming EU bureaucratic regs. . There are reasons why Europeans who are part of the EU are losing ground.

I don't know how you fight a mythical thing. I think the "deep state" is absolutely a myth. I think we now agree that the "deep state" isn't an actual thing with an organization and leadership. I think we agree that parts of the government are doing things they probably shouldn't be doing or have been given way too much latitude by the laws passed by Congress. That can be fought, but a mythical entity cannot.

 

[Mas-sa-suta]

I saw this as well and the algorithim gave me a few more.

It's Josh Hawley. Champion of the little guy. What ****ing world are we living in where I see that jackass grilling somebody and go "yeah, get him".

Got the airline and credit cards execs pretty good too.

My assumption is the Dems were there right along side him right? Right?

I read this post four times and still can't understand what point you are trying to make.

 

[larsIU]

I read this post four times and still can't understand what point you are trying to make.

The realignment of the parties (or at least the perception of realignment. I don't trust pandering politicians, which Hawley most certainly is).

And wondering aloud whether the Dems (who historically should care about these issues and defend everyday Americans against the excesses of our world class economy) were going to join the fight with Hawley or whether they would abstain due to tribal loyalties.

i didn't get an answer. So I looked it up. Appears the Senata remains the more august deliberative body in the Capital. (the dems threw their punches alongside Mr. Hawley) And, at least as it relates to bag fees, Hawley took up a Biden effort.

We hardly ever hear about the things both sides agree on. But we should. However, negative leads. People like to hate more than love. Easier too. Irrational.

I think we should start with bag fees and then continue finding things we agree on.

 

[Mas-sa-suta]

The realignment of the parties (or at least the perception of realignment. I don't trust pandering politicians, which Hawley most certainly is).

And wondering aloud whether the Dems (who historically should care about these issues and defend everyday Americans against the excesses of our world class economy) were going to join the fight with Hawley or whether they would abstain due to tribal loyalties.

i didn't get an answer. So I looked it up. Appears the Senata remains the more august deliberative body in the Capital. (the dems threw their punches alongside Mr. Hawley) And, at least as it relates to bag fees, Hawley took up a Biden effort.

We hardly ever hear about the things both sides agree on. But we should. However, negative leads. People like to hate more than love. Easier too. Irrational.

I think we should start with bag fees and then continue finding things we agree on.

Who are your pet Democrat Senators pandering to?

 

[larsIU]

Who are your pet Democrat Senators pandering to?

Dunno. The ghosts of their forebears most likely.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

I don't know how you fight a mythical thing. I think the "deep state" is absolutely a myth. I think we now agree that the "deep state" isn't an actual thing with an organization and leadership. I think we agree that parts of the government are doing things they probably shouldn't be doing or have been given way too much latitude by the laws passed by Congress. That can be fought, but a mythical entity cannot.

Just cuz we agree that the DS is not an organization with a structure doesn’t mean it’s a myth. Government by unaccountable and elusive bureaucrats is definitely real. Don't be fooled by the phrase “deep state.” The concept the name implies is very real. Fortunately SCOTUS, took two pieces out of the DS but we still have a ways to go.

 

[The Original Happy Goat]

Had to look it up. I am 6:1 (including my bonus) from the lowest paid person in my organization. But that lowest person is entry level and hourly.

People think the grind of being a CEO is a cakewalk. I can see why they die early. **** that shit.

Sorry. Couldn't help myself.


I took used to enjoy drawing and art work with the kid. Ahh, I miss those days.


We have a Congress problem in that we don't pay them enough to get enough people to consider public service as a career. Or, as murt notes, we treat Congress like the Founderes believed it should be treated and have a rotation of those able to forego their career for 2-8 years for the betterment of the country and to represent their district.

The latter just isn't going to happen and if it did it would just put a bunch of already rich people into Congress.

Now, if the federal government were to shrink or become more focused on a few responsibilities (and before you textualists get a hardon, my list includes single payor health care), it could be possible to have being a Congressman return to being a part time gig. I hope that's where it's headed

I think you're vision matches up better with what the Founders had in mind, but it could never happen in today's climate. In an ideal world, the people through Congress would make the decisions, but the day-to-day would be run by professionals, bureaucrats, paper-pushers, all being led administratively by the Executive. What would we call that? Oh yeah, the DEEP STATE. The bogey man is actually the way things are supposed to work, but people fear that the bogey man has been given too much responsibility and too much authority, and so they want that pulled back. And so we need a full-time Congress accomplishing nothing except hindering the performance of the people who actually know what they are doing.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

I think you're vision matches up better with what the Founders had in mind, but it could never happen in today's climate. In an ideal world, the people through Congress would make the decisions, but the day-to-day would be run by professionals, bureaucrats, paper-pushers, all being led administratively by the Executive. What would we call that? Oh yeah, the DEEP STATE. The bogey man is actually the way things are supposed to work, but people fear that the bogey man has been given too much responsibility and too much authority, and so they want that pulled back. And so we need a full-time Congress accomplishing nothing except hindering the performance of the people who actually know what they are doing.

Seriously? The administrators who run governmental day-by-day operations are what we call the deep state? Or a boogy man?

Sigh. You have no idea.

We now know that the Biden feebleness cover-up is the largest presidential scandal in our history. Who in the fvck do you think orchestrated that? Who in the fvck condemned and dismissed Hur for pointing out Biden’s severe disability. How did we get a border policy people overwhelmingly disagree with? How do we get student loan forgiveness people overwhelmingly reject? That’s just for openers.

 

[hookyIU1990]

Deep State is such a poor label. It's part tin foil hat and part comic book villain in it's implication.

It's nothing more than an overgrown bureaucracy that no longer feels accountable to the elected officials and, more importantly, the citizens of the country.

Slash and burn, consolidate, reorganize, streamline, make gov't smaller and accountable again.

 

[Univee2]

Deep State is such a poor label. It's part tin foil hat and part comic book villain in it's implication.

It's nothing more than an overgrown bureaucracy that no longer feels accountable to the elected officials and, more importantly, the citizens of the country.

Slash and burn, consolidate, reorganize, streamline, make gov't smaller and accountable again.

Deep State = Those who aren’t accountable for anything they do to us and can’t be identified and fired.

 

[bailey777]

The only way to get it back is if they give it back. You think Leon Mush, the human Trump louse, is going to? Will Bezos, Zuck, Alt, Thiel once they've all reached their "agreement"?

The general tone of Trump 2025 is to dissolve agencies that, imho, are there to protect the average Joe Blow American like me, and to allow industry, and billionaires, to run unimpeded.

These dudes are discussing the FDIC, folks. Are these dudes going to insure our money personally? They could, you know.

I keep saying we can't be this credulous but I already know that we are.

Well the country was just run by a guy with dementia for four years so your argument is pretty weak.