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Summer progress and development

kkott

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Oct 26, 2001
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surprised there were no comments that I saw regarding Reanu's post about his summer work and improvement with conditioning, from Twitter and ITH. Frankly, I don't put much stock in these conditioning updates, because we hear every year about guys "adding 20 lbs of muscle" or improving their vertical 5"+, and often we don't see it on the court. Last year wasn't the rumor that Bates was dominating? But, it's summer and there's little to discuss, so here you go! What else have we heard or know? According to CMW, Galloway has been the best player on the court? I've also heard the team chemistry is good and they seem tight with and to listen to CMW. And, Cupps is one strong little SOB! Anyone hearing any other news? Oh yeah, I've heard a couple folks say Sparks is playing well but haven't heard a ton about MM, KW or AW. And, Newton is supposedly hurt or rehabbing still? What else?


 
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surprised there were no comments that I saw regarding Reanu's post about his summer work and improvement with conditioning, from Twitter and ITH. Frankly, I don't put much stock in these conditioning updates, because we hear every year about guys "adding 20 lbs of muscle" or improving their vertical 5"+, and often we don't see it on the court. Last year wasn't the rumor that Bates was dominating? But, it's summer and there's little to discuss, so here you go! What else have we heard or know? According to CMW, Galloway has been the best player on the court? I've also heard the team chemistry is good and they seem tight with and to listen to CMW. And, Cupps is one strong little SOB! Anyone hearing any other news? Oh yeah, I've heard a couple folks say Sparks is playing well but haven't heard a ton about MM, KW or AW. And, Newton is supposedly hurt or rehabbing still? What else?


I agree (VBG).
 
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I agree (concur) it all sounds promising.

I just have flashbacks to social media posts talking about someone's vertical blowing up to 48"....still couldn't help him rebound or shoot to save his life. Or play liked he gave a shit.

MR does now have a B1G ready body and that's good.....big Lurch will be his problem now. I hope he'll be ready. But what I'd really like to see is how much quicker his feet get, so he doesn't keep committing silly freshman fouls by playing defense with his hands and arms.

Still think MM and son of Krypton (Kal-el) will be the keys to mediocre vs top 20 season. And X staying healthy and playing smart.
 
I agree (concur) it all sounds promising.

I just have flashbacks to social media posts talking about someone's vertical blowing up to 48"....still couldn't help him rebound or shoot to save his life. Or play liked he gave a shit.

MR does now have a B1G ready body and that's good.....big Lurch will be his problem now. I hope he'll be ready. But what I'd really like to see is how much quicker his feet get, so he doesn't keep committing silly freshman fouls by playing defense with his hands and arms.

Still think MM and son of Krypton (Kal-el) will be the keys to mediocre vs top 20 season. And X staying healthy and playing smart.
We concur! I've said since watching MR last year, I really hope he improves his agility over the summer as I think that will eliminate those silly fouls. Also in that link: ESPN pegged us as a 10 seed in the tourney. We're thin in the backcourt, but there is promise with this group. Hope they do develop and the injury bug stays away!
 
I agree (concur) it all sounds promising.

I just have flashbacks to social media posts talking about someone's vertical blowing up to 48"....still couldn't help him rebound or shoot to save his life. Or play liked he gave a shit.

MR does now have a B1G ready body and that's good.....big Lurch will be his problem now. I hope he'll be ready. But what I'd really like to see is how much quicker his feet get, so he doesn't keep committing silly freshman fouls by playing defense with his hands and arms.

Still think MM and son of Krypton (Kal-el) will be the keys to mediocre vs top 20 season. And X staying healthy and playing smart.
Offensively he’s got pretty good footwork, and at his young age a good arsenal of offensive moves. But, as you said, defensively it’s a different story. Some of that is positioning, reacting (slowly) rather than anticipating and a propensity to rely on his upper body rather than footwork/positioning. He did improve as the season wore on, and I suspect that he will get a little more love from the refs this year.
 
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Malik looks like a damn gladiator. These before and after are Oscar worthy.
Yeah, in off-season hype, we're national championship contenders every year. How many W's is a glamour shot good for anyway? I could live with more Ws during the season than the ones we get in July and August.
 
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We concur! I've said since watching MR last year, I really hope he improves his agility over the summer as I think that will eliminate those silly fouls. Also in that link: ESPN pegged us as a 10 seed in the tourney. We're thin in the backcourt, but there is promise with this group. Hope they do develop and the injury bug stays away!
I'd take a 10 seed..
CMW has his hands full mix and matching this team...
#10 seed would mean about 20 wins.
 
surprised there were no comments that I saw regarding Reanu's post about his summer work and improvement with conditioning, from Twitter and ITH. Frankly, I don't put much stock in these conditioning updates, because we hear every year about guys "adding 20 lbs of muscle" or improving their vertical 5"+, and often we don't see it on the court. Last year wasn't the rumor that Bates was dominating? But, it's summer and there's little to discuss, so here you go! What else have we heard or know? According to CMW, Galloway has been the best player on the court? I've also heard the team chemistry is good and they seem tight with and to listen to CMW. And, Cupps is one strong little SOB! Anyone hearing any other news? Oh yeah, I've heard a couple folks say Sparks is playing well but haven't heard a ton about MM, KW or AW. And, Newton is supposedly hurt or rehabbing still? What else?


That was Cav talking up Bates, so there's that.
 
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Yeah, in off-season hype, we're national championship contenders every year. How many W's is a glamour shot good for anyway? I could live with more Ws during the season than the ones in July and August.
bingo. I don't care if they're bonging beer and smoking pall malls all summer, if it leads to 25+ wins and a final 4.
 
I agree (concur) it all sounds promising.

I just have flashbacks to social media posts talking about someone's vertical blowing up to 48"....still couldn't help him rebound or shoot to save his life. Or play liked he gave a shit.

MR does now have a B1G ready body and that's good.....big Lurch will be his problem now. I hope he'll be ready. But what I'd really like to see is how much quicker his feet get, so he doesn't keep committing silly freshman fouls by playing defense with his hands and arms.

Still think MM and son of Krypton (Kal-el) will be the keys to mediocre vs top 20 season. And X staying healthy and playing smart.
Jordan had a 48 inch vertical at the NBA pre draft. So………………..

I hope Ware can play D.
 
This doesn't look like a before and after. It looks more like a before and while; before flexing and while flexing.
Add in a change of shorts, tape on the wrist instead of a bracelet and hair coloring……haven’t you ever played the “find 5 things that are different “ game?
 
I hope he sharpens his elbows. Bw him and the fella from bsu they could turn the rest of The Big (insert your number here) into the black and blue league.
 
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Kal-El is at the Nike camp, seems like he's over the ankle that slowed him early in the summer session.

I believe Cupps stated he was most impressed with MR's shooting from range this summer.
 
Kal-El is at the Nike camp, seems like he's over the ankle that slowed him early in the summer session.

I believe Cupps stated he was most impressed with MR's shooting from range this summer.
Ware is turning heads at camp. Hope it translates. He can do everything TJD can and more, pop for a mid range or 3. Plus he has more length. Woody needs to bring it out of him.
 
Ware is turning heads at camp. Hope it translates. He can do everything TJD can and more, pop for a mid range or 3. Plus he has more length. Woody needs to bring it out of him.
Is he the kid from that 4-5 game stretch early last year, that looked like one of the best players on the floor against teams like UConn, MSU, Villanova? Or is he the kid during that same stretch that had 2 points and 3 rebounds against Houston? And that ended up only averaging about 10 minutes a game the last couple months a season, for an average Oregon team?

I'll take consistency...and a player somewhere in between those two extremes.

If he's a 11 and 7 type guy, and can play fairly consistently to that, and defend at a high level, he'll be a top 15 pick, and help us immensely. I get what you're saying with regards to TJD and his skillset, but we definitely don't need him to be anywhere near as good, or as productive as TJD was.
 
Is he the kid from that 4-5 game stretch early last year, that looked like one of the best players on the floor against teams like UConn, MSU, Villanova? Or is he the kid during that same stretch that had 2 points and 3 rebounds against Houston? And that ended up only averaging about 10 minutes a game the last couple months a season, for an average Oregon team?

I'll take consistency...and a player somewhere in between those two extremes.

If he's a 11 and 7 type guy, and can play fairly consistently to that, and defend at a high level, he'll be a top 15 pick, and help us immensely. I get what you're saying with regards to TJD and his skillset, but we definitely don't need him to be anywhere near as good, or as productive as TJD was.
Sounds like something with the situation at Oregon just got to him, but that he does have the skills that made him a top 10 5* recruit, and wasn't just over-rated. Gotta credit CMW that since the end of the season when I was expecting a pretty dismal non-tournament year after losing TJD, Race, JHS and Kopp to pull together a team with this much talent and prospects is pretty amazing.
 
Is he the kid from that 4-5 game stretch early last year, that looked like one of the best players on the floor against teams like UConn, MSU, Villanova? Or is he the kid during that same stretch that had 2 points and 3 rebounds against Houston? And that ended up only averaging about 10 minutes a game the last couple months a season, for an average Oregon team?

I'll take consistency...and a player somewhere in between those two extremes.

If he's a 11 and 7 type guy, and can play fairly consistently to that, and defend at a high level, he'll be a top 15 pick, and help us immensely. I get what you're saying with regards to TJD and his skillset, but we definitely don't need him to be anywhere near as good, or as productive as TJD was.
I wasn’t implying that he will have TJD production but he’s got a better skill set overall. He looks every bit as quick. He has some handles and a nice looking face up game. Now like you said his defense is the mystery.
 
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Sounds like something with the situation at Oregon just got to him, but that he does have the skills that made him a top 10 5* recruit, and wasn't just over-rated. Gotta credit CMW that since the end of the season when I was expecting a pretty dismal non-tournament year after losing TJD, Race, JHS and Kopp to pull together a team with this much talent and prospects is pretty amazing.
Definitely impressed with how he's reshaped this roster.

I certainly hope Ware struggled at Oregon due to the overall situation. But we've had our own players at IU that have had similar struggles recently. Bates and Geronimo namely. So I hope the change of scenery, and Woody coaching him, will equate to better consistency and overall play for Ware. But I wouldn't say its a given, at this point.

Glad to have him, very excited about what he could bring. Probably unnecessary to pump the brakes on the optimism.

I honestly haven't watched a ton of highlights, game tape, etc... so I'm basically speaking out of my ass on this.

But from what I have seen...to me...it'll boil down to 1 thing for him. Does he actively fight for position? Players like him can easily be pushed off their lines, out of rebounding positions, out of help side positions, bullied to the rim, etc... If he's a guy that's willing to fight for his spots, he'll end up being really good for us, and will likely be a lottery pick.
 
I hope he sharpens his elbows. Bw him and the fella from bsu they could turn the rest of The Big (insert your number here) into the black and blue league.
It already was a black and blue league …
MR looks ready to dish out his fair share of bruises.
The question that comes with bulking up is maintaining fluidity.
Quickness and fluidity can counter a power game,
I thought MR needed to improve his fluidity from last year.
 
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Malik looks like a damn gladiator. These before and after are Oscar worthy.

strength is over rated in basketball.

fine with me if they back off the strength/body building, and work more on flexibility and stamina and ball skills.

smaller guys need strength, but only for improving range.

how many muscle bound guys have you ever seen who could shoot or handle the ball worth a heck.

it's a short list.

Malik needs to vastly improve his handle and shooting as the keys to his playing at a higher level.

the key to improving ball handling is just doing it all the time under tough conditions, which can be replicated to some extent in drills, and not just in games and scrimmages.

and once one has a better handle, they become much better offensively regardless of everything else.
 
strength is over rated in basketball.

fine with me if they back off the strength/body building, and work more on flexibility and stamina and ball skills.

smaller guys need strength, but only for improving range.

how many muscle bound guys have you ever seen who could shoot or handle the ball worth a heck.

it's a short list.

Malik needs to vastly improve his handle and shooting as the keys to his playing at a higher level.

the key to improving ball handling is just doing it all the time under tough conditions, which can be replicated to some extent in drills, and not just in games and scrimmages.

and once one has a better handle, they become much better offensively regardless of everything else.
Yes and no. I think there are diminishing returns on strength training for basketball in todays game. The B1G still thinks it’s 1988, so it’s still important.

It’s always important for freshman and sophomores to develop strength. After a certain point the focus needs to be endurance and speed. (especially laterally) For example, I don’t really care how many bench reps X or Galloway are doing at this point. Mack, Ware, Malik, on the other hand, they need to develop strength.

Once strength starts taking away from your endurance by adding weight, etc. You could be doing too much. Just my opinion.

If you’re Jordan trying to get ready for the Pistons in the early 90s, you should add muscle and strength no doubt. Those days are over.
 
Yes and no. I think there are diminishing returns on strength training for basketball in todays game. The B1G still thinks it’s 1988, so it’s still important.

It’s always important for freshman and sophomores to develop strength. After a certain point the focus needs to be endurance and speed. (especially laterally) For example, I don’t really care how many bench reps X or Galloway are doing at this point. Mack, Ware, Malik, on the other hand, they need to develop strength.

Once strength starts taking away from your endurance by adding weight, etc. You could be doing too much. Just my opinion.

If you’re Jordan trying to get ready for the Pistons in the early 90s, you should add muscle and strength no doubt. Those days are over.

guys pushing their way around in the paint is about weight distribution, not strength.

strength wasn't that important in 1988, and it's even more over rated now.

speed, handle, touch, and instincts, are what matter. (once you're strong enough to have range).

and again, how many muscle bound guys have you ever seen with a great handle and shooting touch?

a small list at most.

lots of skinny guys over the yrs who could flat fill it up and defend and rebound though.
 
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guys pushing their way around in the paint is about weight distribution, not strength.

strength wasn't that important in 1988, and it's even more over rated now.

speed, handle, touch, and instincts, are what matter. (once you're strong enough to have range).

and again, how many muscle bound guys have you ever seen with a great handle and shooting touch?

a small list at most.

lots of skinny guys over the yrs who could flat fill it up and defend and rebound though.
Strength is not overrated at all; maybe bulk or sheer size, but guys like KD or Jokic, while not chiseled, are still strong, and you need a baseline strength just to play at higher levels. While I didn't think it was really necessary for MR to add a ton of strength, what I'm hoping is that they've also worked on something that might be a little harder to post a metric about, but which he was in dire need of: mobility an agility. That should help eliminate those silly fouls and allow him to stay on the court longer.
 
guys pushing their way around in the paint is about weight distribution, not strength.

strength wasn't that important in 1988, and it's even more over rated now.

speed, handle, touch, and instincts, are what matter. (once you're strong enough to have range).

and again, how many muscle bound guys have you ever seen with a great handle and shooting touch?

a small list at most.

lots of skinny guys over the yrs who could flat fill it up and defend and rebound though.
I think Malik's pictures are leading to some of us to frame this entire conversation incorrectly.

First of all, those pictures are a little misleading. I'm guessing picture 1 was taken before any sort of workout, with no intent to make Malik look "ripped". Picture 2 though, I'd bet a lot it was taken after a lifting session, and he was flexing. He looks like a pro wrestler/body builder in the 2nd picture. If it was a true side by side, I would bet the difference wouldn't be nearly as striking. Maybe his abs would be popping a little more, there'd be some more definition in his arms, his chest is probably a little bigger. The point is, Malik won't look like a body builder when the games roll around. He didn't gain 30 pounds of muscle like football players do for certain positions.

So I think this conversation is leaning towards a comparison between Kevin Durant and Myles Garrett.

I like the comment TheVid made about strength having diminishing returns in basketball. And I think those returns start to diminish at different points, depending on position, skillset, role, etc...

A PG who's strength is speed and quickness doesn't need to, and shouldn't, pack on 10-15 pounds of muscle and risk losing some of his biggest strength. But adding 4-5 pounds of good muscle would likely help him hold his lines better, keep people on his hip, finish better through contact, etc...

Conversely, a big, who's strength is his height and length, touch around the basket, his footwork, etc... he might benefit from 15 pounds of muscle. The added weight alone would allow him to hold positions better, to move opposing players off their spots easier, it'd help him create more space before taking his interior shots...add the strength aspect to that added muscle, and it just compounds those improvements, and helps to negate some of the speed he might have lost from the added weight. Malik is the perfect example for this, actually. He was already strong and big for a freshman. He struggled, at times, with positioning. And one of his bigger weaknesses was defending without fouling. Strength and any weight he might have added, will help him with both of those things, in all likelihood. And if he can defend without fouling, and use the added strength to more consistently give himself better looks, he's going to be REALLY, REALLY good this year.

But Malik isn't going to look, or play, like Myles Garrett when we watch him play, like his side by side photo makes it look like.
 
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surprised there were no comments that I saw regarding Reanu's post about his summer work and improvement with conditioning, from Twitter and ITH. Frankly, I don't put much stock in these conditioning updates, because we hear every year about guys "adding 20 lbs of muscle" or improving their vertical 5"+, and often we don't see it on the court. Last year wasn't the rumor that Bates was dominating? But, it's summer and there's little to discuss, so here you go! What else have we heard or know? According to CMW, Galloway has been the best player on the court? I've also heard the team chemistry is good and they seem tight with and to listen to CMW. And, Cupps is one strong little SOB! Anyone hearing any other news? Oh yeah, I've heard a couple folks say Sparks is playing well but haven't heard a ton about MM, KW or AW. And, Newton is supposedly hurt or rehabbing still? What else?


I agree. Pictures mean nothing.
November and December will give us info and hopefully peak January on.
 
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