So 'Nova, with their off-brand tradition, can muster a title

[Oxford Collapse]

I don't know, other sports and the Pacers have always existed. To me, winning is the key. If anything, CTC has shown that the passion can be reignited and if we were a dominant program and challenging and winning our share of national titles, the support would be at a frenzy level I believe. The one difference I notice is with the Colts. Having an NFL team, and possibly that coinciding with class bball, and single sport focus, has changed the dynamic in IN to me. Now many top athletes are focusing on football, where in prior years bball was the #1 sport. I do think football and specifically the NFL and having a franchise that has had some success have changed the sports culture in IN. Not eliminated it, but changed it noticeably.

Not trying to be rude here, but you just told me that you don't agree with me, but then argued in favor of pretty much the point I was making. So... I agree with you on the Colts, but I think you underestimate the degree that young people have picked up other pastimes.

Seriously -- there are adults under 28 in Indianapolis right now who can name the starting strikers and midfield for Leicester City Football Club in England, but couldn't tell you where IU finished in the Big Ten this year. It's a totally different, global sporting world, and local allegiances just mean less.

 

[HA2740]

Sorry man, but Indiana stopped being Indiana long before Tom Crean got here and long before Bob Knight left. I'd love to find a coach to replace Crean and feel at least 90% confident that we'd get better results than we're getting now, but I'm not convinced such a coach is interested in coming here.

I did notice you didn't answer the question though.....how would you evaluate a coach at Indiana with a stretch of 5 straight years like the years Wright had at Villanova?

I thought it was obvious enough, but I will write it in longer form and be mindful to use small words....

The losing record isn't acceptable here (barring a circumstance like what Crean had year 1 and 2). It wasn't acceptable for Davis, it wasn't acceptable by Crean's third season. It wouldn't be acceptbale for Jay Wright, but then, again has never had a losing season at Indiana, has he?

A string of failed deep tourney runs is disconcerting, but is not necessarily unforgivable 1) given how unpredictable and upset-riddled the tourney always is 2) and if you have prior tourney success by taking your school to not just multiple sweet 16s, but also an Elite 8 and Final 4 preceding the drought of success. It's not really fair to a coach to put blinders on to a sizable part of his tenure at your school. So when you look outside that slice of years for Wright, the body of work looks better. If Crean had ever taken IU farther than a S16, he would probably get more of a benefit too.

What you and a gaggle of mongoloids appear to be missing in this hypothetical is that this is what Jay Wright is doing at Villanova....with Villanova's resources. The premise here seems to be we should just swap the jerseys and evaluate Villanova as though it and Indiana are fungible basketball programs. That's not a reality. The facilities, the athletic budget, the backyard talent base, the size and dedication of the fanbase, all are advantages Indiana has over Villanova.

Your question is like asking 2 golfers how they feel about their 1-over opening round at The Masters Thursday, when one is an amateur and the other is a top-10 player. Same result, but they're going to feel quite different about it because of their respective abilities. And if the top-10 player keeps getting matched or outplayed by amateurs, eventually he should figure out something is wrong, perhaps with his swing coach he's never really excelled with.

 

[VanPastorMan]

I was 8 years old for the 1976 championship. I don't really remember that one much other than my parents were going crazy in the house screaming and cheering.

I was 13 years old for the 1981 championship. It was just the previous year that I really started getting into basketball, so it was phenomenal and I was super excited for that title and wore IU gear it seemed like every other day to school.

I was 19 and a freshman at IU for the 1987 championship. For those of you who were a student on campus for any of the championships...you understand. For those who were not, it's totally amazing and exciting, but just not the same if you're not actually enrolled and on campus at that moment. Still one of the top 3 most fond moments of my life. Going crazy in Teeter Thompson after the game. Then running down to Showalter Fountain to cheer in victory with the thousands and thousands of other students, staff, and locals. Drinking beer, hugging strangers, just going crazy. Such an amazing feeling!

3 national championships in 11 years. I thought that's how it would always be...win one every 4 years or so. It's truly sad to think it's been almost 30 years since our last. *sigh*

Cap, you and I are about the same age. Were you into basketbal in 76? I really wasn't,but do remember my Dad being very excited we won. By 81, I was a big fan and the person who lead me there was Steve Bouchie. He was from Washington and a big idol to a lot of us. I started watching IU every game because Steve was playing there. Then I was hooked and haven't looked back. When 87 happened I was stationed at Grissom AFB near Bunker Hill Indiana and was the only person in the room who was rooting for IU. What a thrilling memory Smart's shot was. Great times. I like you thought this was the norm. I too did not think we would see 30 yrs without a title.

 

[FrankTGucker]

I was in school during Knight's last 4 years culminating with him getting his ass fired. I was naive in thinking how bad it sucked basketball wise being at IU during that time.

I was too young to remember 81, but remember where I was while watching Smart's shot. Chaeney and crew were like gods to me.

 

[kraft cheese+macaroni]

I thought it was obvious enough, but I will write it in longer form and be mindful to use small words....

The losing record isn't acceptable here (barring a circumstance like what Crean had year 1 and 2). It wasn't acceptable for Davis, it wasn't acceptable by Crean's third season. It wouldn't be acceptbale for Jay Wright, but then, again has never had a losing season at Indiana, has he?

A string of failed deep tourney runs is disconcerting, but is not necessarily unforgivable 1) given how unpredictable and upset-riddled the tourney always is 2) and if you have prior tourney success by taking your school to not just multiple sweet 16s, but also an Elite 8 and Final 4 preceding the drought of success. It's not really fair to a coach to put blinders on to a sizable part of his tenure at your school. So when you look outside that slice of years for Wright, the body of work looks better. If Crean had ever taken IU farther than a S16, he would probably get more of a benefit too.

What you and a gaggle of mongoloids appear to be missing in this hypothetical is that this is what Jay Wright is doing at Villanova....with Villanova's resources. The premise here seems to be we should just swap the jerseys and evaluate Villanova as though it and Indiana are fungible basketball programs. That's not a reality. The facilities, the athletic budget, the backyard talent base, the size and dedication of the fanbase, all are advantages Indiana has over Villanova.

Your question is like asking 2 golfers how they feel about their 1-over opening round at The Masters Thursday, when one is an amateur and the other is a top-10 player. Same result, but they're going to feel quite different about it because of their respective abilities. And if the top-10 player keeps getting matched or outplayed by amateurs, eventually he should figure out something is wrong, perhaps with his swing coach he's never really excelled with.

I apologize for previously giving you credit for being more intelligent than you apparently are....I'll make a note of it for future reference.

 

[Warison]

I have no point to this post !!!!

Alabama Football - 1979 1992 2009 - One title in 30 yrs.

Ohio State Football - 1970-2002 - 32 yrs between titles

Texas Football - 1970 -2005 - 35 yrs between titles

Kansas basketball 1952, 1988, 2008 - 36 yrs between titles and then another 20 yrs.

Kentucky basketball 1958, 1978, 1996 - 20 yrs between titles, then another 18. And then another 14 ...

UCLA basketball - 1975, 1995 - One title in 41 yrs.

IU basketball - No titles in 29 yrs.

 

[FL33]

I have no point to this post !!!!

Alabama Football - 1979 1992 2009 - One title in 30 yrs.

Ohio State Football - 1970-2002 - 32 yrs between titles

Texas Football - 1970 -2005 - 35 yrs between titles

Kansas basketball 1952, 1988, 2008 - 36 yrs between titles and then another 20 yrs.

Kentucky basketball 1958, 1978, 1996 - 20 yrs between titles, then another 18. And then another 14 ...

UCLA basketball - 1975, 1995 - One title in 41 yrs.

IU basketball - No titles in 29 yrs.

Texas football is probably the closest comp. They have a recent title, so it's not really relevant now. But heading into that last title they were Like IU, in that they were only elite due to local culture that provided tons of support and recruits. They recruit more like UK than IU, though, so they are able to win with a mediocre coach. O$U is pretty similar.

Other than that, you're examples are shit because they show elite programs with a minimum 20 year drought.

IU is closer to ND or UM football. Tradition tied much more to history and appealing to adults more than kids (we follow the rules... yay...). Like ND and UM football, IU will need a top 3 X's and O's coach to succeed. They won't out talent the rest of the top 5. btw, UM has that now and IU missed their chance with Stevens.... so, um yea, IU is just pathetically mediocre.

A 20yr drought bookends a generation of recruits at the very least. IU would be yesterday's news if it weren't for the strong local basketball culture that provides good recruits and supports basketball, in general.

Ohio State, San Francisco, Oklahoma St., NC State, etc... used to be basketball powers at one point.

IU and UCLA (even though they have more history and recent success) will readily fall into that abyss if a local team could dominate, and thus dominate recruiting, for a little bit. Luckily Purdue and USC both suck.

 

[FrankTGucker]

I thought it was obvious enough, but I will write it in longer form and be mindful to use small words....

The losing record isn't acceptable here (barring a circumstance like what Crean had year 1 and 2). It wasn't acceptable for Davis, it wasn't acceptable by Crean's third season. It wouldn't be acceptbale for Jay Wright, but then, again has never had a losing season at Indiana, has he?

A string of failed deep tourney runs is disconcerting, but is not necessarily unforgivable 1) given how unpredictable and upset-riddled the tourney always is 2) and if you have prior tourney success by taking your school to not just multiple sweet 16s, but also an Elite 8 and Final 4 preceding the drought of success. It's not really fair to a coach to put blinders on to a sizable part of his tenure at your school. So when you look outside that slice of years for Wright, the body of work looks better. If Crean had ever taken IU farther than a S16, he would probably get more of a benefit too.

What you and a gaggle of mongoloids appear to be missing in this hypothetical is that this is what Jay Wright is doing at Villanova....with Villanova's resources. The premise here seems to be we should just swap the jerseys and evaluate Villanova as though it and Indiana are fungible basketball programs. That's not a reality. The facilities, the athletic budget, the backyard talent base, the size and dedication of the fanbase, all are advantages Indiana has over Villanova.

Your question is like asking 2 golfers how they feel about their 1-over opening round at The Masters Thursday, when one is an amateur and the other is a top-10 player. Same result, but they're going to feel quite different about it because of their respective abilities. And if the top-10 player keeps getting matched or outplayed by amateurs, eventually he should figure out something is wrong, perhaps with his swing coach he's never really excelled with.

Peegs is already trying to manage expectations on the premie for next year in lieu of espn's early ranking of IU at #8.

 

[Tammany Hall]

Peegs is already trying to manage expectations on the premie for next year in lieu of espn's early ranking of IU at #8.

I really dislike how afraid some people around our program can be of expectations.

 

[HA2740]

Peegs is already trying to manage expectations on the premie for next year in lieu of espn's early ranking of IU at #8.

My guess is that #8 assumes Bryant is back (probably assumes Williams too, but we realize that won't make much difference). W/o Bryant and a front line of Davis with Morgan spelling him "in the middle", I think that's going to cap their upside.

 

[Rakkasan29]

The Athletic Department is already trying to manage expectations on the premie for next year in lieu of espn's early ranking of IU at #8.

Fixed it for you.

People need to understand...This place is now one and the same. It's been obvious for quite awhile now. It's the best way for them to execute their smoke and mirrors BS.

And would be completely unnecessary if they could actually live up to the expectations considered standard by an Elite basketball program...

 

[SuperHoosier]

I was in 7th. Sigh. I'm depressed now.

I was 8 years old....

 

[PtownHoosier]

I was 8 years old....

I was in 7th grade. But I wasn't an IU fan yet so it didn't count. I want my championship before the NCAA gets dissolved damnit.

 

[Chester Fried]

That's why it's not as painful for them as it is for us who have experienced the joy of basketball dominance and national championships at IU. That's why many of them are probably happy with Sweet 16 appearances. They'll never truly understand. I weep for the IU youth.

I was 18 mo old when Smart hit the shot. My only real highlights of being an IU fan are the 2002 championship game (fluke) and the win @Michigan for the Big Ten title. The best moment I had at Assembly Hall as a student was the Marco dunk..... in a loss.

Shoot me.

 

[Rakkasan29]

I was 18 mo old when Smart hit the shot. My only real highlights of being an IU fan are the 2002 championship game (fluke) and the win @Michigan for the Big Ten title. The best moment I had at Assembly Hall as a student was the Marco dunk..... in a loss.

Shoot me.

I'm happy to know that you see that Marco/Duke game for what it was.

So many fans think that was the pinnacle.
They're the same ones doing somersaults over another Sweet Sixteen blowout.

 

[Chester Fried]

I'm happy to know that you see that Marco/Duke game for what it was.

So many fans think that was the pinnacle.
They're the same ones doing somersaults over another Sweet Sixteen blowout.

I said after that game "when we get D.J. back this is going to be a Final Four team." I was an idiot. I didn't fully realize how big of a home court advantage Assembly Hall is and how it masks the flaws of IU coaches and teams.

 

[Zizkov]

I was 18 mo old when Smart hit the shot. My only real highlights of being an IU fan are the 2002 championship game (fluke) and the win @Michigan for the Big Ten title. The best moment I had at Assembly Hall as a student was the Marco dunk..... in a loss.

Shoot me.

Finally! Being old is paying off! (Not MTIOTF old mind you, his first car was a Duesenberg).

At the ripe age of (nearly) 7, I was in the Spectrum watching IU complete the undefeated season. I remember the popcorn tasting good.

In 1981, I was back in the Spectrum and remember it quite well. Before the LSU game, the LSU fans were marching around yelling Tiger Bait. IU dispensed of them.

After it was decided the championship game would be played (Ronnie was going to live) the Spectrum was filled with ACC fans (Virginia and UNC) chanting ACC! ACC! for quite a while.

As it became clear that IU was going to win, the IU crowd chanted AC-who? I was addicted.

Then came 1987. I'm a senior in HS and IU BB is at the center of my life. Get home from a week of skiing in Breckenridge for spring break just in time to see Calloway tip in the winning basket against LSU.

Our house is empty (the rest of the family is at the game) so I run outside and around the house yelling and screaming.

The next week I head down to the FF in NO and have the time of my life. I could write a long story about that weekend for sure. An amazing weekend.

Now people wonder why I don't really care that IU won a weak BT with an unbalanced schedule. I don't give a shit about a sweet 16.

Anything short of a FF is not a great season no matter what you say. I enjoyed 2002 for sure, but it still came up short in the end. There is nothing like an NT. People can take their BT regular season championships and sweet 16s and shove it up their ass!

I now see that I was was spoiled by a great coach (I'm just talking coaching here, relax people).

If IU can get a really good coach again the potential is still there, but IU seems OK with sweet 16s and an orange used car salesman.

Off soap box, thanks for listening.

 

[Tammany Hall]

The best moment I had at Assembly Hall as a student was the Marco dunk..... in a loss.

Lol.

 

[MillerTime]

I have no point to this post !!!!

Alabama Football - 1979 1992 2009 - One title in 30 yrs.

Ohio State Football - 1970-2002 - 32 yrs between titles

Texas Football - 1970 -2005 - 35 yrs between titles

Kansas basketball 1952, 1988, 2008 - 36 yrs between titles and then another 20 yrs.

Kentucky basketball 1958, 1978, 1996 - 20 yrs between titles, then another 18. And then another 14 ...

UCLA basketball - 1975, 1995 - One title in 41 yrs.

IU basketball - No titles in 29 yrs.

What's your point?

 

[IU Meathead]

What's your point?

Warison doesnt have points.

You're not new here, you should know this.

 

[Hoops Cat]

I was pissed when IU lost to UCLA in 1973, and the foul was called on Steve Downing and not Bill Walton. I was 13ish. This video is awesome, and shows why Knight was the coach he was.



When IU lost in '75; I cried. My two older brothers were at IU at the time, and they were at the game in Dayton. I remember my only solace was shooting buckets at an outdoor rim on a playground not far from my house. They never lose that game if May doesn't break his arm, but but but....



When IU won in '76, I was a sophomore in high school. My friends thought I was from a different planet, because all I cared about was IU basketball. That season was awesome, and I remember watching the final game against Michigan with my dad in our front room.

I was a junior at IU when they won in '81. That team was disjointed at points during the year, with loses to Kentucky (#2), Notre Dame (#9), North Carolina (#8), Clemson, and Texas Pan American (?!?) in the pre-B1G season. They were 7-5 at that point. They lost at Michigan, at home to Iowa, at Purdue, and at Iowa in the B1G, but finished 14-4 and won the B1G. They made the NCAA as a 3 seed. Once they figured it out, they were unbeatable. I was at every home game that year (well, that was true for my entire time at IU).

This is why my 'gina is sandy; I hate everything about the state of the program right now. Everything.

I'm not a CBL; I'm just not wanting to face this reality, that I can't stand, every day on this forum; I just want to enjoy IU basketball.

I used to live for it.

Now, get off my lawn.

 

[T.M.P.]

I was pissed when IU lost to UCLA in 1973, and the foul was called on Steve Downing and not Bill Walton. I was 13ish. This video is awesome, and shows why Knight was the coach he was.

View embedded media

When IU lost in '75; I cried. My two older brothers were at IU at the time, and they were at the game in Dayton. I remember my only solace was shooting buckets at an outdoor rim on a playground not far from my house. They never lose that game if May doesn't break his arm, but but but....

View embedded media

When IU won in '76, I was a sophomore in high school. My friends thought I was from a different planet, because all I cared about was IU basketball. That season was awesome, and I remember watching the final game against Michigan with my dad in our front room.

I was a junior at IU when they won in '81. That team was disjointed at points during the year, with loses to Kentucky (#2), Notre Dame (#9), North Carolina (#8), Clemson, and Texas Pan American (?!?) in the pre-B1G season. They were 7-5 at that point. They lost at Michigan, at home to Iowa, at Purdue, and at Iowa in the B1G, but finished 14-4 and won the B1G. They made the NCAA as a 3 seed. Once they figured it out, they were unbeatable. I was at every home game that year (well, that was true for my entire time at IU).

This is why my 'gina is sandy; I hate everything about the state of the program right now. Everything.

I'm not a CBL; I'm just not wanting to face this reality, that I can't stand, every day on this forum; I just want to enjoy IU basketball.

I used to live for it.

Now, get off my lawn.

ORANGE PEOPLE SUCK!

 

[Ohio Guy]

Honest question for you:

Jay Wright's last 5 NCAA Tournaments before this year:

• Didn't make it to the 2nd weekend in any of those 5 years
• That included one year as a one seed and two years as a 2 seed.
• the other two years were as 9 seeds where they lost the first game both times

Can you imagine if Crean had that NCAA record for 5 years in a row what you would be saying about him? Try to be honest about it. How would you evaluate that failure rate?

I'm here to eat major crow on this - I can't remember if I posted this here, but when everyone was filling out their brackets, I specifically mentioned Jay Wright's poor tourney record and asked if there was another overrated coach/program out there. Boy was I wrong this year....

 

[HoosierJimbo89]

This incredibly fvcked up thought occurred to me the other day: There may actually be posters on this board who were not even alive the last time IU won a national title. How's that for a smack across the face of perspective.

I was barely one year old and in a GD crib. I can somewhat remember the early 90's teams. I can't believe it has been 30 years.

I found a video of Damon beating UK in 1993 with Don Fischer's radio work on youtube. Bob Knight's not giving a flying F about recruiting was pretty darn apparent at this point.

 

[Moops]

every 30 years, but IU can't?

If that isn't an indication that IU is a 2nd rate, wannabe program.... I don't know what is.

Trust me. Novas W just gives them a reason to give ttt more time.

 

[crimsonlaw]

I was ten when we won it last. I remember it like it was 29 years ago. We've lost a generation of die hard fans with tradition, and have gotten a lot dumber when it comes to basketball.

 

[Tammany Hall]

I was barely one year old and in a GD crib. I can somewhat remember the early 90's teams. I can't believe it has been 30 years.

I found a video of Damon beating UK in 1993 with Don Fischer's radio work on youtube. Bob Knight's not giving an flying F about recruiting was pretty darn apparent at this point.

View embedded media

Thanks for the video link. Fantastic.

 

[Oxford Collapse]

I was 18 mo old when Smart hit the shot. My only real highlights of being an IU fan are the 2002 championship game (fluke) and the win @Michigan for the Big Ten title. The best moment I had at Assembly Hall as a student was the Marco dunk..... in a loss.

Shoot me.

My Freshman year at IU was the year Kelvin Sampson tanked us and the year that Hep died. I think I've got you beat.

 

[Tammany Hall]

My Freshman year at IU was the year Kelvin Sampson tanked us and the year that Hep died. I think I've got you beat.

That was our senior year. We also hired Tommy Hoops that year too.

I actually went to the airport to greet Crean when he arrived for the first time. LITTLE DID I KNOW...

 

[HoosierJimbo89]

That was our senior year. We also hired Tommy Hoops that year too.

I actually went to the airport to greet Crean when he arrived for the first time. LITTLE DID I KNOW...

I believe we graduated IU in the same year, 2008. I don't know how Sampson's tenure would have ended at IU without the NCAA issues. He had a better resume than Tommy Basketball and is a better coach in general, but I don't know if he was a top 10 or even top 20 coach, let alone a top 5 coach. But, the timing of the phone call fiasco was pretty cruel, especially since it followed Davis and the RMK firing. IU was having a good year, recruiting was looking up, and things appeared to be taking off for IU. Then, bam. It is like getting to the gates of the promised land and then being denied entry.

 

[Chester Fried]

My Freshman year at IU was the year Kelvin Sampson tanked us and the year that Hep died. I think I've got you beat.

As Tammany said, that was our senior year. I covered the team for the IDS. It was a circus and fun for a reporter, but miserable for an IU fan.

 

[HoosierJimbo89]

As Tammany said, that was our senior year. I covered the team for the IDS. It was a circus and fun for a reporter, but miserable for an IU fan.

That would have been pretty darn interesting working on the IDS and covering the team, especially during the Sampson fiasco. I went to high school with a guy a couple of years older than me that was a student manager under Davis: he was a baller in high school. I could never get him to tell me any stories while he was a manager, and rightfully so, but he would hint towards the end that the end was near with Davis. I need to ask him again now that he isn't a manager.

 

[HA2740]

My Freshman year at IU was the year Kelvin Sampson tanked us and the year that Hep died. I think I've got you beat.

My freshman year was the Davis 14-15 season. So the first year I'm at IU is also the first year in my life that IU doesn't make the tourney. That was pretty traumatizing, but your year may be worse.

As far as Assembly Hall moments as a student, I'm sad to say Marco Duke game was the best and sitting in a half empty AH for the Vanderbilt NIT loss was the most depressing.....Christ, no wonder we have a 19-page beer thread. It's a miracle not more of us are un-functioning alcoholics.

 

[IU Meathead]

My freshman year was the Davis 14-15 season. So the first year I'm at IU is also the first year in my life that IU doesn't make the tourney. That was pretty traumatizing, but your year may be worse.

As far as Assembly Hall moments as a student, I'm sad to say Marco Duke game was the best and sitting in a half empty AH for the Vanderbilt NIT loss was the most depressing.....Christ, no wonder we have a 19-page beer thread. It's a miracle not more of us are un-functioning alcoholics.

I didnt go to the Vandy game. I was one of the reasons it was half empty.

With me getting 2 degrees I was an IU student from Aug 97 til May 06.
Started in the same class with Luke Recker (Guyton and Lewis were sophs, Andre Patterson was a senior)
I was a student when RMK was fired.
I was a student during the 2002 run to the champ game
I was a student the year with no post season
I was a student the year of the embarrassment in the NIT.
My last year was Davis' last year (I wasnt on campus most of this year doing rotations) I was working in the Dayton OH VA that March when they lost to Gonzaga.