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Sign me up for Ben McCollum…

The fans of the Hurryin' Hoosiers weren't happy with the slow plodding half court offense the new guy out of Army introduced, either.
It wasn't that slow, or plodding .. 75 team scored 88 per game, 76 team scored 82. Without a shot clock or 3 point shot and in an era where teams started playing defense and when scoring was dropping.

He had some slower years, but when he had talent, the offense cooked... So, were the fans as dumb then as now? Apparently ..
 
It wasn't that slow, or plodding .. 75 team scored 88 per game, 76 team scored 82. Without a shot clock or 3 point shot and in an era where teams started playing defense and when scoring was dropping.

He had some slower years, but when he had talent, the offense cooked... So, were the fans as dumb then as now? Apparently ..

Yeah, but that wasn't the case in 71 when he first showed up. All they had to go on was what he'd done at Army, and they didn't like it. Sure am glad we gave a relative unknown from a second tier program a shot.
 
Yeah, but that wasn't the case in 71 when he first showed up. All they had to go on was what he'd done at Army, and they didn't like it. Sure am glad we gave a relative unknown from a second tier program a shot.
I can see that.

Fwiw - I believe RMK is the major reason you see a slow down in scoring overall in all of basketball. Late 60 teams were averaging 90+, RMK after his final four, championship... you see teams in the 70 and even 60s after. Was he the main innovator of that trend? Or were there other coaches involved that did the same?

His offense tends to be a bit underrated, many years it was the best or as good as any other in conference.
 
Fwiw - I believe RMK is the major reason you see a slow down in scoring overall in all of basketball. Late 60 teams were averaging 90+, RMK after his final four, championship... you see teams in the 70 and even 60s after. Was he the main innovator of that trend? Or were there other coaches involved that did the same?

"Why don't they just give both teams 100 points and then have them play for five minutes?"

-- George Carlin
 
I can see that.

Fwiw - I believe RMK is the major reason you see a slow down in scoring overall in all of basketball. Late 60 teams were averaging 90+, RMK after his final four, championship... you see teams in the 70 and even 60s after. Was he the main innovator of that trend? Or were there other coaches involved that did the same?

His offense tends to be a bit underrated, many years it was the best or as good as any other in conference.
Yep. Especially in combination with Hank Iba.
 
Crutchfield would actually be my number 1 candidate...mainly because of the tempo and style he plays...If he wasn't 69 years old.

Oh wow. I didn't realize he was 69. For some reason I thought he was in his late 50s.
 
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Where do you think Bruce Pearl started?
Started he has been at Drake one season. He needs to prove more like I said the other guys have proven more. Just so you know there was guy years ago who was 78-29 at Manchester University back to back runners up in Divsion lll championships. He would later go on and coach in the Missouri Valley Confrence too and turn Southwest Missouri State into a know program we are talking about Steve Alford.

 
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We won't gamble on the up and coming guy. I don't think.

Talking about RMK, not many remember he was going to be the coach at Wisconsin and they went public before the deal was done and he re-engaged with the IU AD and the rest is history.
Great D would do well in the Big
 
I think if Oats or Pearl were to be legit possibilities, obviously they're great choices. The other 3...ehhh...

Beard...I just don't think he's enough better than everyone else that the baggage is worth it.
Drew...weird dude. I think he'd be successful at IU, but I worry about his personality a little bit.
Cronin...I don't know...he's been coaching for over 20 years, and only has a 2-3 conference championships. He's a consistent winner, but he's also proven to really not ever be an elite winner. And his recent presser throwing his players under the bus was less than impressive.
 
I think if Oats or Pearl were to be legit possibilities, obviously they're great choices. The other 3...ehhh...

Beard...I just don't think he's enough better than everyone else that the baggage is worth it.
Drew...weird dude. I think he'd be successful at IU, but I worry about his personality a little bit.
Cronin...I don't know...he's been coaching for over 20 years, and only has a 2-3 conference championships. He's a consistent winner, but he's also proven to really not ever be an elite winner. And his recent presser throwing his players under the bus was less than impressive.
not interested in Cronin. the others fine, especially Oates.
 
I'm sure McCollum is a great X's and O's guy, but IU needs someone with the personality and chops to handle this gig. Going from NW Missouri State to Drake to IU in a span of 3 years just seems overwhelming. I think McCollum could do very well here but he's not going to get any kind of honeymoon to build and foster a culture here. I'm not sure his system fits the all-mercenary portal route either as it's something he's never had to deal with.
 
I think if Oats or Pearl were to be legit possibilities, obviously they're great choices. The other 3...ehhh...

Beard...I just don't think he's enough better than everyone else that the baggage is worth it.
Drew...weird dude. I think he'd be successful at IU, but I worry about his personality a little bit.
Cronin...I don't know...he's been coaching for over 20 years, and only has a 2-3 conference championships. He's a consistent winner, but he's also proven to really not ever be an elite winner. And his recent presser throwing his players under the bus was less than impressive.
Hypothetical. IU hired a new coach, over the next 5 years we make the tourney every year, consistently top 25, top 5 BT team, seeded in the 6ish range for the tourney.

But, over that 5 years no B10 title. No B10 tournament title. No second weekend in the NCAAs.

How would you feel about the hire? (And it’s ok to respond with a “depends on” post.)
 
Hypothetical. IU hired a new coach, over the next 5 years we make the tourney every year, consistently top 25, top 5 BT team, seeded in the 6ish range for the tourney.

But, over that 5 years no B10 title. No B10 tournament title. No second weekend in the NCAAs.

How would you feel about the hire? (And it’s ok to respond with a “depends on” post.)
Depends
 
Hypothetical. IU hired a new coach, over the next 5 years we make the tourney every year, consistently top 25, top 5 BT team, seeded in the 6ish range for the tourney.

But, over that 5 years no B10 title. No B10 tournament title. No second weekend in the NCAAs.

How would you feel about the hire? (And it’s ok to respond with a “depends on” post.)
Depends...

How competitive are we with top level teams?
How exciting or fun are we to watch?
Are we competing for B10 titles, just falling short?
Are we making B10 tournament title games or getting bumped on Fridays?
Are we winning first round NCAA games?
Are we getting blown out in the round of 32?

Overall, for me, if there were signs of elite competitiveness...and any sort of improvement trend... I THINK I'd be o.k. with that. Sounds crazy...but that would be the most consistent, and "best" 5 year stretch since RMK days.

But I do think 5 years in, and most people would start to get ancy without a B10 title, and/or a Sweet 16 or further.
 
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I think if Oats or Pearl were to be legit possibilities, obviously they're great choices. The other 3...ehhh...

Beard...I just don't think he's enough better than everyone else that the baggage is worth it.
Drew...weird dude. I think he'd be successful at IU, but I worry about his personality a little bit.
Cronin...I don't know...he's been coaching for over 20 years, and only has a 2-3 conference championships. He's a consistent winner, but he's also proven to really not ever be an elite winner. And his recent presser throwing his players under the bus was less than impressive.
Why is there always a mention of “baggage” with Chris Beard. All charges were dropped. Humans/coaches do stupid stuff at times (ie.. Coach Knight God Bless his soul). He’s a very knowledgeable coach, and the players, students, fans like him.
He gets his players to play hard and smart. He has won every place he coached, and probably with players that weren’t super stars.
Maybe IU could go with another ho hum coach and later find out that their baggage was they sucked at coaching…
Woodson is an IU great, and won’t get fired. However, I believe his coaching days are over. Takes a different type of guy nowadays.
 
Why is there always a mention of “baggage” with Chris Beard. All charges were dropped. Humans/coaches do stupid stuff at times (ie.. Coach Knight God Bless his soul). He’s a very knowledgeable coach, and the players, students, fans like him.
He gets his players to play hard and smart. He has won every place he coached, and probably with players that weren’t super stars.
Maybe IU could go with another ho hum coach and later find out that their baggage was they sucked at coaching…
Woodson is an IU great, and won’t get fired. However, I believe his coaching days are over. Takes a different type of guy nowadays.
Pam won't let it happen. Next ....
 
Whitten changed the graduation times this past December. She let a lot of employees go recently to save money for player share.
She knows what makes or breaks a University. A proven coach is just another step for her. And I’m sure she is enjoying every bit of the success.
 
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Why is there always a mention of “baggage” with Chris Beard. All charges were dropped. Humans/coaches do stupid stuff at times (ie.. Coach Knight God Bless his soul). He’s a very knowledgeable coach, and the players, students, fans like him.
He gets his players to play hard and smart. He has won every place he coached, and probably with players that weren’t super stars.
Maybe IU could go with another ho hum coach and later find out that their baggage was they sucked at coaching…
Woodson is an IU great, and won’t get fired. However, I believe his coaching days are over. Takes a different type of guy nowadays.
This is my view, and also he's now moved on to MS and gone a year and a half with no known issues. You definitely have to hire an investigator to look into it and discuss with him, but if that was his only issue, and you're happy with his answer (ie: "I've stopped drinking and no longer see that lady, taken anger mgt classes, etc...) I think it would be foolish not to consider him. I think he's one of the best combinations of proven experience at the P5 level, winner, great coach and age.
 
Hypothetical. IU hired a new coach, over the next 5 years we make the tourney every year, consistently top 25, top 5 BT team, seeded in the 6ish range for the tourney.

But, over that 5 years no B10 title. No B10 tournament title. No second weekend in the NCAAs.

How would you feel about the hire? (And it’s ok to respond with a “depends on” post.)

100% fine with it. Do people know how long it's been since we've had that for any longer than TWO years - and even then, just once?? Let's get to that point and then figure it out from there.
 
I'm sure McCollum is a great X's and O's guy, but IU needs someone with the personality and chops to handle this gig. Going from NW Missouri State to Drake to IU in a span of 3 years just seems overwhelming. I think McCollum could do very well here but he's not going to get any kind of honeymoon to build and foster a culture here. I'm not sure his system fits the all-mercenary portal route either as it's something he's never had to deal with.
You obviously could be right...and that's McCollum's specific risk. But you have to be more than an "X's and O's" guy to win 4 National Titles in such a short span (likely would have been 5 if not for the Covid cancellation), and win multiple NCOY awards. There are only a few guys that have basically no "risks"...heck, even Stevens comes with some unknowns about how he'd re acclimate himself to today's college bball environment. Oats and Pearl...I'd say, is probably the extent of the list where it'd be basically impossible to come up with legitimate risks. Everyone else has something...Beard, Golden = baggage, May = 1 great year, handful of mediocre years, Drew = his past with IU/Adidas, he's weird, personality fit...

But for certain, the things you mention would be question marks. I think digging deeper with his philosophies, it could go either way with whether its actually perfect for Portal/NIL/Elite personalities mindsets...or if he'd be too stubborn and rigid with his own approach to make the necessary changes. He wants to "Impose his Will", it seems like that guides everything he does, teaches, recruits to, etc... At IU, if he isn't willing to change what his "will" is...he won't be able to Impose it if it doesn't attract, or if he isn't interested in, elite level talent. But if he is open to it, and realizes the things he needed at NWM and Drake, are different than the things he'd need at IU...THEN, his philosophy probably resonates incredibly well with elite level players, donors, etc...
 
Why is there always a mention of “baggage” with Chris Beard. All charges were dropped. Humans/coaches do stupid stuff at times (ie.. Coach Knight God Bless his soul). He’s a very knowledgeable coach, and the players, students, fans like him.
He gets his players to play hard and smart. He has won every place he coached, and probably with players that weren’t super stars.
Maybe IU could go with another ho hum coach and later find out that their baggage was they sucked at coaching…
Woodson is an IU great, and won’t get fired. However, I believe his coaching days are over. Takes a different type of guy nowadays.
Just being realistic about who Indiana University is...and that Domestic Violence issues never fully go away. And at times, it doesn't matter if they go away, if people think its resolved, any of that...if the girl involved feels like she wants to blow it back up...he'd be fired at IU in less than a week, probably. If nothing happened, I feel badly for Beard. And he certainly deserves chances to move past it. Indiana just doesn't NEED to be the program he's continuing to move past it with. I hope there are other candidates just as promising.

Because when you break down his basketball accomplishments, his style...he's no better than a number of other candidates out there that I would think would be candidates. And the reason we have some on here that are adamant he's THE choice, is because of his ties to RMK. I would think, at this point, we'd be past factoring that in, at all. And if anything, that could maybe be looked at as a negative, at this point.
 
Football is where the money is made whether you like it or not. There is nothing to decide.Just go get Oats and let Cig cook here and both programs can flourish.
Didn't think I needed to add DWS, but guess I was wrong! You really thought I was suggesting swapping our fball coach for their bball coach? Maybe we could throw in a certain BOT member too!
 
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Just being realistic about who Indiana University is...and that Domestic Violence issues never fully go away. And at times, it doesn't matter if they go away, if people think its resolved, any of that...if the girl involved feels like she wants to blow it back up...he'd be fired at IU in less than a week, probably. If nothing happened, I feel badly for Beard. And he certainly deserves chances to move past it. Indiana just doesn't NEED to be the program he's continuing to move past it with. I hope there are other candidates just as promising.

Because when you break down his basketball accomplishments, his style...he's no better than a number of other candidates out there that I would think would be candidates. And the reason we have some on here that are adamant he's THE choice, is because of his ties to RMK. I would think, at this point, we'd be past factoring that in, at all. And if anything, that could maybe be looked at as a negative, at this point.
You sure seem confident that good candidates are all over the place. From that article, my guess is that only Beard and possibly Pearl if he were interested are even real options. Remember that UK and UL likely went 3-5 deep on their wish list, before they got their coaches and don't think fans were thrilled with either initially. I think there's going to be 1-2 maybe 3, clear "best choices" and it's highly likely Beard is one of those guys. Our President has gotten past much worse history, and we're going to nix one of the best candidates out there? I think that would be really stupid and is far more likely to lead to Archie/Woody 3.0.
 
You sure seem confident that good candidates are all over the place. From that article, my guess is that only Beard and possibly Pearl if he were interested are even real options. Remember that UK and UL likely went 3-5 deep on their wish list, before they got their coaches and don't think fans were thrilled with either initially. I think there's going to be 1-2 maybe 3, clear "best choices" and it's highly likely Beard is one of those guys. Our President has gotten past much worse history, and we're going to nix one of the best candidates out there? I think that would be really stupid and is far more likely to lead to Archie/Woody 3.0.
Oats, Pearl, Stevens...that's the only no brainer, can't miss, already proven it...list.

Beard...

-He's coached at 6 schools in 13 years. Red flag number 1.
-All of those schools, except McMurry are located in the south. Indiana, the B10, are different. I wouldn't say "red flag" on this one, but its a factor. If we're worried about personality, fit, etc... for others, you have to factor this in for Beard.
-He's been coaching for 13 years and only has 2 conference championships.
-The domestic violence thing is a red flag. Cleared up, resolved, whatever...its still a red flag.

He's a good basketball coach though. No question about it. And maybe there aren't all that many other good candidates? Mark Pope and Pat Kelsey prove the point I'm trying to make. We don't "have" to lock in on guys like Beard. There are likely other guys out there.
 
Just being realistic about who Indiana University is...and that Domestic Violence issues never fully go away. And at times, it doesn't matter if they go away, if people think its resolved, any of that...if the girl involved feels like she wants to blow it back up...he'd be fired at IU in less than a week, probably. If nothing happened, I feel badly for Beard. And he certainly deserves chances to move past it. Indiana just doesn't NEED to be the program he's continuing to move past it with. I hope there are other candidates just as promising.

Because when you break down his basketball accomplishments, his style...he's no better than a number of other candidates out there that I would think would be candidates. And the reason we have some on here that are adamant he's THE choice, is because of his ties to RMK. I would think, at this point, we'd be past factoring that in, at all. And if anything, that could maybe be looked at as a negative, at this point.
I agree that "RMK ties" should not be a deciding factor or even something we want. RMK has his place of greatness, and it was the 1970s/80s. He did not fully keep up with changes in the game and changes in the players and that's half the reason he didn't retire at IU.

IU needs to move on from RMK, while of course not tarnishing his memory more than they already have. The best way to honor him at this point is to hire a coach who is elite or on the cusp of it, in the modern game.

I would support Beard if he were hired. He's presumed innocent unless proven guilty, and he wasn't even charged with anything. There's a subgroup in Bloomington and IU that would be beside themselves, but they already hate Pam and think that "sportsball" should just be a club activity.
 
Hypothetical. IU hired a new coach, over the next 5 years we make the tourney every year, consistently top 25, top 5 BT team, seeded in the 6ish range for the tourney.

But, over that 5 years no B10 title. No B10 tournament title. No second weekend in the NCAAs.

How would you feel about the hire? (And it’s ok to respond with a “depends on” post.)


That would suck.
 
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Oats, Pearl, Stevens...that's the only no brainer, can't miss, already proven it...list.

Beard...

-He's coached at 6 schools in 13 years. Red flag number 1.
-All of those schools, except McMurry are located in the south. Indiana, the B10, are different. I wouldn't say "red flag" on this one, but its a factor. If we're worried about personality, fit, etc... for others, you have to factor this in for Beard.
-He's been coaching for 13 years and only has 2 conference championships.
-The domestic violence thing is a red flag. Cleared up, resolved, whatever...its still a red flag.

He's a good basketball coach though. No question about it. And maybe there aren't all that many other good candidates? Mark Pope and Pat Kelsey prove the point I'm trying to make. We don't "have" to lock in on guys like Beard. There are likely other guys out there.
Beard is higher on my list plus his buyout like Mays is next to nothing. The guy was taught by the General has won everywhere took Texas Tech to the championship..
 
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Oats, Pearl, Stevens...that's the only no brainer, can't miss, already proven it...list.

Beard...

-He's coached at 6 schools in 13 years. Red flag number 1.
-All of those schools, except McMurry are located in the south. Indiana, the B10, are different. I wouldn't say "red flag" on this one, but its a factor. If we're worried about personality, fit, etc... for others, you have to factor this in for Beard.
-He's been coaching for 13 years and only has 2 conference championships.
-The domestic violence thing is a red flag. Cleared up, resolved, whatever...its still a red flag.

He's a good basketball coach though. No question about it. And maybe there aren't all that many other good candidates? Mark Pope and Pat Kelsey prove the point I'm trying to make. We don't "have" to lock in on guys like Beard. There are likely other guys out there.
I’m not necessarily locked in on Beard, I’m just saying he should not be looked over because of “baggage”. I really like McCollum (have seen him coach in Div II finals in Evansville). Gets his boys to play tough and finds good shooters. Not sure though if he would take the jump right now with possible Iowa job opening in near future.
 
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