Sign me up for Ben McCollum…

[Warison]

Won 4 national championships at a DII school.

A division where you don’t solely rely on talent but you actually have to be able to coach.

I’m in. His resume is Cignetti-like.

He’s 15-2 at Drake.

Scary part is Iowa might be looking for a new coach after this season and McCollum is from Iowa City.

 

[Vern Pain]

Won 4 national championships at a DII school.

A division where you don’t solely rely on talent but you actually have to be able to coach.

I’m in. His resume is Cignetti-like.

He’s 15-2 at Drake.

Scary part is Iowa might be looking for a new coach after this season and McCollum is from Iowa City.

How big of a nut punch would that be, hiring someone to coach basketball at IU, then have him leave after a short time for his "dream job" at Iowa?

 

[IUNorth]

I've been talking about him for quite a while now. I did hear that Iowa was his "dream job"...but I don't know the context of that, if there's even a quote about it... He didn't attend Iowa. He played JUCO and then at NW Missouri State. So, not to dig too deep in to the psychology here... I would think getting an offer from Indiana, might make the Iowa job a little less "dreamy".

But if you "miss out" on guys like Stevens, Pearl, Oats...whoever else that might be more "proven"...then taking a shot on a guy like McCollum is the route to take. There are no guarantees, outside some of the higher profile guys I mentioned, that the next coach will hit. But, like I've said a bunch of times now, I think the odds are pretty good, with a decent amount of them...that they'll elevate the program, and be pretty darn good.

To me, McCollum is just as good, if not better, than guys like DeVries, May, Jans, Golden, etc... They all started at lower levels too, and ascended up the ladder, to where they have had some P4 successes. Where McCollum separates himself...he DESTROYED his peers at the beginning stages of his career. None of the coaches, even the higher profile ones, none of them had that level of dominance, at any level of their coaching...to what McCollum had at NWM. And when you read up on him, and his style and approach, you can start to see how and why it happened. And that seems like something that is VERY repeatable, and very translatable up to higher levels.

 

[mushroomgod_1]

I've been talking about him for quite a while now. I did hear that Iowa was his "dream job"...but I don't know the context of that, if there's even a quote about it... He didn't attend Iowa. He played JUCO and then at NW Missouri State. So, not to dig too deep in to the psychology here... I would think getting an offer from Indiana, might make the Iowa job a little less "dreamy".

But if you "miss out" on guys like Stevens, Pearl, Oats...whoever else that might be more "proven"...then taking a shot on a guy like McCollum is the route to take. There are no guarantees, outside some of the higher profile guys I mentioned, that the next coach will hit. But, like I've said a bunch of times now, I think the odds are pretty good, with a decent amount of them...that they'll elevate the program, and be pretty darn good.

To me, McCollum is just as good, if not better, than guys like DeVries, May, Jans, Golden, etc... They all started at lower levels too, and ascended up the ladder, to where they have had some P4 successes. Where McCollum separates himself...he DESTROYED his peers at the beginning stages of his career. None of the coaches, even the higher profile ones, none of them had that level of dominance, at any level of their coaching...to what McCollum had at NWM. And when you read up on him, and his style and approach, you can start to see how and why it happened. And that seems like something that is VERY repeatable, and very translatable up to higher levels.

I trust your scouting more than Woody's. Sign him up.

 

[Vern Pain]

I've been talking about him for quite a while now. I did hear that Iowa was his "dream job"...but I don't know the context of that, if there's even a quote about it... He didn't attend Iowa. He played JUCO and then at NW Missouri State. So, not to dig too deep in to the psychology here... I would think getting an offer from Indiana, might make the Iowa job a little less "dreamy".

But if you "miss out" on guys like Stevens, Pearl, Oats...whoever else that might be more "proven"...then taking a shot on a guy like McCollum is the route to take. There are no guarantees, outside some of the higher profile guys I mentioned, that the next coach will hit. But, like I've said a bunch of times now, I think the odds are pretty good, with a decent amount of them...that they'll elevate the program, and be pretty darn good.

To me, McCollum is just as good, if not better, than guys like DeVries, May, Jans, Golden, etc... They all started at lower levels too, and ascended up the ladder, to where they have had some P4 successes. Where McCollum separates himself...he DESTROYED his peers at the beginning stages of his career. None of the coaches, even the higher profile ones, none of them had that level of dominance, at any level of their coaching...to what McCollum had at NWM. And when you read up on him, and his style and approach, you can start to see how and why it happened. And that seems like something that is VERY repeatable, and very translatable up to higher levels.

Oh yeah. I'm not saying pass. I'm just conditioned to expect the snake bit nature of IU Basketball for the last 25 years.

 

[Seyton]

I've been talking about him for quite a while now. I did hear that Iowa was his "dream job"...but I don't know the context of that, if there's even a quote about it... He didn't attend Iowa. He played JUCO and then at NW Missouri State. So, not to dig too deep in to the psychology here... I would think getting an offer from Indiana, might make the Iowa job a little less "dreamy".

But if you "miss out" on guys like Stevens, Pearl, Oats...whoever else that might be more "proven"...then taking a shot on a guy like McCollum is the route to take. There are no guarantees, outside some of the higher profile guys I mentioned, that the next coach will hit. But, like I've said a bunch of times now, I think the odds are pretty good, with a decent amount of them...that they'll elevate the program, and be pretty darn good.

To me, McCollum is just as good, if not better, than guys like DeVries, May, Jans, Golden, etc... They all started at lower levels too, and ascended up the ladder, to where they have had some P4 successes. Where McCollum separates himself...he DESTROYED his peers at the beginning stages of his career. None of the coaches, even the higher profile ones, none of them had that level of dominance, at any level of their coaching...to what McCollum had at NWM. And when you read up on him, and his style and approach, you can start to see how and why it happened. And that seems like something that is VERY repeatable, and very translatable up to higher levels.

He did destroy his peers, but not to the extent Jim Crutchfield has - and that's saying something because Ben McCollum's record is simply amazing. McCollum has four national championships to Crutchfield's one. But Crutchfield's .881 winning percentage bests McCollum's .815, Crutchfield having coached five or six more seasons.

A huge advantage for McCollum is that he is doing it at Drake right now. On the other hand, Crutchfield built up West Liberty first then left and has now built up a second program: Nova Southeastern. Both coaches are very impressive.

I know I've brought this up to you in the past, but this is more for the other readers here.

EDIT: Just for fun, take a gander at Geno Auriemma's record. It's got to be the most amazing coaching record of all-time, right? It doesn't even make sense.

 

[IUNorth]

He did destroy his peers, but not to the extent Jim Crutchfield has - and that's saying something because Ben McCollum's record is simply amazing. McCollum has four national championships to Crutchfield's one. But Crutchfield's .881 winning percentage bests McCollum's .815, Crutchfield having coached five or six more seasons.

A huge advantage for McCollum is that he is doing it at Drake right now. On the other hand, Crutchfield built up West Liberty first then left and has now built up a second program: Nova Southeastern. Both coaches are very impressive.

I know I've brought this up to you in the past, but this is more for the other readers here.

EDIT: Just for fun, take a gander at Geno Auriemma's record. It's got to be the most amazing coaching record of all-time, right? It doesn't even make sense.

Crutchfield would actually be my number 1 candidate...mainly because of the tempo and style he plays...If he wasn't 69 years old.

 

[ams66]

Crutchfield would actually be my number 1 candidate...mainly because of the tempo and style he plays...If he wasn't 69 years old.

Yeah I agree on the age concern -- he'd probably be 70 before he started coaching games. Unless you had some kind of deal for Stevens but he needed to wait a year or two for some reason....

 

[welshman#]

I've been talking about him for quite a while now. I did hear that Iowa was his "dream job"...but I don't know the context of that, if there's even a quote about it... He didn't attend Iowa. He played JUCO and then at NW Missouri State. So, not to dig too deep in to the psychology here... I would think getting an offer from Indiana, might make the Iowa job a little less "dreamy".

But if you "miss out" on guys like Stevens, Pearl, Oats...whoever else that might be more "proven"...then taking a shot on a guy like McCollum is the route to take. There are no guarantees, outside some of the higher profile guys I mentioned, that the next coach will hit. But, like I've said a bunch of times now, I think the odds are pretty good, with a decent amount of them...that they'll elevate the program, and be pretty darn good.

To me, McCollum is just as good, if not better, than guys like DeVries, May, Jans, Golden, etc... They all started at lower levels too, and ascended up the ladder, to where they have had some P4 successes. Where McCollum separates himself...he DESTROYED his peers at the beginning stages of his career. None of the coaches, even the higher profile ones, none of them had that level of dominance, at any level of their coaching...to what McCollum had at NWM. And when you read up on him, and his style and approach, you can start to see how and why it happened. And that seems like something that is VERY repeatable, and very translatable up to higher levels.

I’ve been on the McCollum bandwagon since I bought his name up on this site a year ago by comparing (favorably) his overall record to Schertz’s. Anyone who can win 4 college nattys at ANY level is imo already a “proven winner.”

My underlying assumption is that few, if any, of the “big names” that regularly get mentioned would be realistic candidates for the IU job this time around. If that assumption is correct, then guys like McCollum (and perhaps Medved and some others) may be the most likely candidates in the mix.

 

[IUNorth]

Yeah I agree on the age concern -- he'd probably be 70 before he started coaching games. Unless you had some kind of deal for Stevens but he needed to wait a year or two for some reason....

Yeah...or maybe if he has an established coaching staff with him, and some obvious assistant coach that is a huge part of what they're doing...but even then...not sure I'd trust that 2nd guy to replicate what Crutchfield has done.

65...I think I'd roll the dice maybe...his first coaching job was actually as a college tennis coach...he won big at that, then took the basketball job at West Liberty. I think he's just a guy that knows how to win at whatever he's doing. His process and style must be translatable across various platforms.

 

[ndhuntington]

I'm fine if Beard, May, Pearl, Oats, Bennett, Wright all say no first.

 

[IUNorth]

I’ve been on the McCollum bandwagon since I bought his name up on this site a year ago by comparing (favorably) his overall record to Schertz’s. Anyone who can win 4 college nattys at ANY level is imo already a “proven winner.”

My underlying assumption is that few, if any, of the “big names” that regularly get mentioned would be realistic candidates for the IU job this time around. If that assumption is correct, then guys like McCollum (and perhaps Medved and some others) may be the most likely candidates in the mix.

Yep...when you pare away the big name guys like Stevens, Pearl, Oats...name whoever else has been mentioned. The argument against McCollum, against whoever the remaining candidates might be, goes away pretty quickly. He's actually proven himself MORE than really anyone outside some of those high profile guys.

McCollum v DeVries...DeVries has now shown it fairly well at WVU...so he has that advantage. But after that, DeVries resume pales in comparison to what McCollum has done.

McCollum v May... May has the Final Four run, building a no name program into a team capable of a Final Four run, and now is showing he can be pretty successful in the B10. But man, he sure had some mediocre years before that FF run. And certainly doesn't have anything close to Natty and National Coach of the Year resume that McCollum does.

And comparing with anyone really, that hasn't won big at a P4 school already... If McCollum's Drake team continues to win, and they win their conference and make the NCAAs...that eliminates another concern against him versus lots of candidates.

 

[IUNorth]

I'm fine if Beard, May, Pearl, Oats, Bennett, Wright all say no first.

take May and Bennett off your list, and I agree. I'd take McCollum over those guys 100/100.

 

[Harry Hondo]

Won 4 national championships at a DII school.

A division where you don’t solely rely on talent but you actually have to be able to coach.

I’m in. His resume is Cignetti-like.

He’s 15-2 at Drake.

Scary part is Iowa might be looking for a new coach after this season and McCollum is from Iowa City.

I posted a thread here a week or two ago that I thought he was college basketball’s Curt Cignetti. He’s winning at Drake with a lot of Div II level talent. Someone said his style of play though wouldn’t attract the talent IU needs to win in the B10.

 

[Harry Hondo]

take May and Bennett off your list, and I agree. I'd take McCollum over those guys 100/100.

The only problem going with a guy like McCollum is the job being too big. Cignetti is working out, because IU football has no winning reputation, but the basketball program is expected to win the B1G and make Final Fours. McCollum might have the fortitude to handle the pressure, but if not we’re screwed once again.

 

[Tammany Hall]

The only problem going with a guy like McCollum is the job being too big. Cignetti is working out, because IU football has no winning reputation, but the basketball program is expected to win the B1G and make Final Fours. McCollum might have the fortitude to handle the pressure, but if not we’re screwed once again.

Yea, this is the tricky thing Scott has to figure out if we go this sort of route. Who can handle the job and who would be the next Archie? As an outsider fan I can’t really tell.

 

[mushroomgod_1]

take May and Bennett off your list, and I agree. I'd take McCollum over those guys 100/100.

Get a guy like this that can really coach for $2-4M less per year than someone like Wright, Stevens, or Pearl, and put that $ into getting COACHABLE portal players.

 

[mushroomgod_1]

The only problem going with a guy like McCollum is the job being too big. Cignetti is working out, because IU football has no winning reputation, but the basketball program is expected to win the B1G and make Final Fours. McCollum might have the fortitude to handle the pressure, but if not we’re screwed once again.

Good point..........

 

[kmathum]

I posted a thread here a week or two ago that I thought he was college basketball’s Curt Cignetti. He’s winning at Drake with a lot of Div II level talent. Someone said his style of play though wouldn’t attract the talent IU needs to win in the B10.

What is his style of play?

 

[dbmhoosier]

I've been talking about him for quite a while now. I did hear that Iowa was his "dream job"...but I don't know the context of that, if there's even a quote about it... He didn't attend Iowa. He played JUCO and then at NW Missouri State. So, not to dig too deep in to the psychology here... I would think getting an offer from Indiana, might make the Iowa job a little less "dreamy".

But if you "miss out" on guys like Stevens, Pearl, Oats...whoever else that might be more "proven"...then taking a shot on a guy like McCollum is the route to take. There are no guarantees, outside some of the higher profile guys I mentioned, that the next coach will hit. But, like I've said a bunch of times now, I think the odds are pretty good, with a decent amount of them...that they'll elevate the program, and be pretty darn good.

To me, McCollum is just as good, if not better, than guys like DeVries, May, Jans, Golden, etc... They all started at lower levels too, and ascended up the ladder, to where they have had some P4 successes. Where McCollum separates himself...he DESTROYED his peers at the beginning stages of his career. None of the coaches, even the higher profile ones, none of them had that level of dominance, at any level of their coaching...to what McCollum had at NWM. And when you read up on him, and his style and approach, you can start to see how and why it happened. And that seems like something that is VERY repeatable, and very translatable up to higher levels.

He could be the next Tony Bennett for sure.

 

[mushroomgod_1]

The only problem going with a guy like McCollum is the job being too big. Cignetti is working out, because IU football has no winning reputation, but the basketball program is expected to win the B1G and make Final Fours. McCollum might have the fortitude to handle the pressure, but if not we’re screwed once again.

There is some video out there, including his introductory PC when he took the Drake job.

Physically, he's 43 years old, skinny, and balding. He is not a dynamic presence physically.

He comes across as unassuming and very down to earth and articulate. No nonsense but straight forward and not in your face.

Harry's point about being in the spotlight is a concern. He attended NW Mo. State as a very good guard, and later coached there for 15 years.

I can see how Iowa would be his dream job, and how he'd be perfect for that position.

 

[ams66]

He could be the next Tony Bennett for sure.

I watched Auburn and Tennessee play to a 53-51 final last weekend. It was not boring.

 

[T.M.P.]

I watched Auburn and Tennessee play to a 53-51 final last weekend. It was not boring.

You must like watching geriatric porn because that's the closet thing you can get to that game.

 

[Warison]

Listen, if his offense is slow and methodical where possessions are actually valued. Even better.

A nasty defense matched with an offense with purpose. Yes please….

 

[welshman#]

In terms of “style of play” as a criterion, I really like what Medved does with his offense-sort of a quicker, more open version of the Princeton philosophy.

In other words, about as far away from a “Woodson offense” as you can get. It would be interesting to see what that offense might look like with the kind of NIL that IU has to spend.

 

[ButHerEmails]

I watched Auburn and Tennessee play to a 53-51 final last weekend. It was not boring.

Nah, that’s boring to a lot of IU fans. We have standards goddamnit. We want exciting, fast pace basketball. Like we score in the 60s-70s while the other team scores in the 80s-90s. That’s exciting basketball. Those other schools can keep their boring wins. Here at IU, we want exciting losses.

 

[dbmhoosier]

Nah, that’s boring to a lot of IU fans. We have standards goddamnit. We want exciting, fast pace basketball. Like we score in the 60s-70s while the other team scores in the 80s-90s. That’s exciting basketball. Those other schools can keep their boring wins. Here at IU, we want exciting losses.

No one here cares how you win as long as you win. What we don’t want is a guy who regularly dominates the regular season and then flames out early in the tournament 9 times out of 10.

 

[76-1]

In terms of “style of play” as a criterion, I really like what Medved does with his offense-sort of a quicker, more open version of the Princeton philosophy.

In other words, about as far away from a “Woodson offense” as you can get. It would be interesting to see what that offense might look like with the kind of NIL that IU has to spend.

What do you know about the guy at Vanderbilt?

The only reason I'm asking is that the now retired AD of JMU who brought Cignetti there also ID'd that guy...

Byington may be his name... Just beat KY..

I'm sort of answering my own question here but would still be interested in your (and/or anyone else's) evaluation of him...

Mark Byington

vucommodores.com

Mark Byington - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

A little heat of the moment insight:

Mark Byington describes 'psychology huddle' he had with Vanderbilt vs. Kentucky

After Vanderbilt's win over Kentucky, head coach Mark Byington reflected on a pivotal huddle in the final stretch of the heated battle.

www.on3.com

SI overview:

Vanderbilt Commodores Men’s Basketball Team Accomplishes Feat Not Done Since 2015

There was a lot of skepticism surrounding the Vanderbilt Commodores men’s basketball team following their incredibly successful non-conference schedule. They we

www.si.com

NY Times article on his hire at Vandy:

Vanderbilt to hire James Madison’s Mark Byington as men’s basketball coach: Source

JMU won 32 games this season, the most in program history, and won the Sun Belt tournament title.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Warison]

No one here cares how you win as long as you win. What we don’t want is a guy who regularly dominates the regular season and then flames out early in the tournament 9 times out of 10.

That dude won a national championship. If you were 7 points behind it felt like a million.

Judging a coaches career compared to their tourney success is a short cut to thinking.

 

[dbmhoosier]

That dude won a national championship. If you were 7 points behind it felt like a million.

Judging a coaches career compared to their tourney success is a short cut to thinking.

DII is nothing like DI. And I wouldn’t necessarily be against McCollum depending on who is willing to take the job. He may kill it here. Just saying that he’s a big question mark.

 

[4IUSox2]

Why no love or mention for my top of the list guy in this thread, TJ Otzelberger at Iowa State? I think we could get him.

 

[dbmhoosier]

Why no love or mention for my top of the list guy in this thread, TJ Otzelberger at Iowa State? I think we could get him.

Call up Dolson and inform him that you will be paying his $20M buyout and maybe it will happen.

 

[hozo4ultimate]

The only problem going with a guy like McCollum is the job being too big. Cignetti is working out, because IU football has no winning reputation, but the basketball program is expected to win the B1G and make Final Fours. McCollum might have the fortitude to handle the pressure, but if not we’re screwed once again.

I'm sure he would win here, like another dozen or so guys. But I agree with you, IU basketball is not IU football. Cig is a legend if he never wins again. The basketball coach isn't getting a pass before being a consistent and proven winner.

 

[IUNorth]

No one here cares how you win as long as you win. What we don’t want is a guy who regularly dominates the regular season and then flames out early in the tournament 9 times out of 10.

And a guy that baled on College basketball basically the second the portal and NIL dynamics hit. If he’s a candidate, I’m going to be very vocally pissed about it. I’m sure that’ll scare Dolson away from considering him.

 

[Warison]

And a guy that baled on College basketball basically the second the portal and NIL dynamics hit. If he’s a candidate, I’m going to be very vocally pissed about it. I’m sure that’ll scare Dolson away from considering him.

He’s not a candidate. You can calm down. He’s not a factor. Just saying he was a damn good coach.

 

[ndhuntington]

take May and Bennett off your list, and I agree. I'd take McCollum over those guys 100/100.

Why Bennett won a national championship was very good coach and May has already turned Michigan around after taking FAU to the final four. Nothing against McCollum but Division one is way harder to win then lower divisions.

 

[ulrey]

Why Bennett won a national championship was very good coach and May has already turned Michigan around after taking FAU to the final four. Nothing against McCollum but Division one is way harder to win then lower divisions.

Where do you think Bruce Pearl started?

 

[76-1]

Looks like if we picked up Byington he could bring as many as 6 guys with him via the Portal... Now he probably wouldn't get all 6 here (and perhaps he wouldn't want all six), but it's nice to have that type of proven core available that understands what he's attempting to run already and can theoretically teach it to the others in the offseason (similar to what Cignetti's transfers from JMU did for INDIANA Football)...

Here's an article detailing the eligibility of most of his current Vanderbilt players:

Men’s Basketball: Vanderbilt begins a new chapter with fresh faces - The Vanderbilt Hustler

Vanderbilt’s ten transfers are looking to usher in a new era of Commodore basketball with head coach Mark Byington.

vanderbilthustler.com

His Guard - Edwards**, is the guy that stirs the drink this year at Vandy (from what I've read) and it appears he'd be available for at least 1 and probably 2 years (due to the JC ruling) if he came along. (JMU transfer)**

One of his other Guards - Nickel, from VT,
was shooting 39.9% from 3 coming (and 82% from the line) into this season and he's available for 1 more year...

He has a 6'7" Forward -McGlockton, previously of Boston College, who has 1 year left...

He also has 6'8" Power Forward/Center Carey**, who has 2 years of eligibility available... (JMU transfer)**

Supposedly another Guard - 6'4"Collins, also from VT, is a good defender so he might provide rotational minutes if he does anything else well...

I'd imagine at least 2 or 3 of those guys would come along with him... I'd opt for the two *JMU* guys who have spent those most time in his system if there was only room for two...

 

[T.M.P.]

Listen, if his offense is slow and methodical where possessions are actually valued. Even better.

Pace and tempo are overrated, without knowing time of off/def possession it's basically a half-assed stat and has no real bearing on success or failure. Plus half of it is determined by the competition ..

Even better would be a normal paced highly efficient offense where possessions are valued and one that can change per game, or per year, or per personnel, based on team strength but no weird outlier shit ..

fwiw - though you can't gauge Drake's offense on kenpom/torvik because of SOS, you can compare it to the rest of their conference (peer group) to get a glimpse, where he's 2nd in off efficiency behind Illinois St and 4th in conf only games. He obviously has X and O chops ... off and def ..

The question is. Can he recruit at this level, and can he manage egos. Egos become exponentially bigger at a school like IU compared to Drake. Can he develop upper level talent? Talented people are generally harder to teach.

At that level it's about X and O. At this level it's about player and team management. That question can only be answered after he does it, or not.

Worth a shot I guess, have to hire someone, this shit ain't working.

 

[UncleMark]

What is his style of play?

Listen, if his offense is slow and methodical where possessions are actually valued. Even better.

The fans of the Hurryin' Hoosiers weren't happy with the slow plodding half court offense the new guy out of Army introduced, either.