she so wrong

[IUNorth]

D1 in its entirety-the field for the tournament.

Drake has played 1 quad1 game and beat Vanderbilt. They lost 2 to Illinois Chicago. Completely different level of competition at IU.

He's 26-3 against D1 peers. And is doing so with a roster that relies heavily on guys that only had D2 experiences before this year.

I'm not saying its a guarantee he'd be 26-3 at IU, and do it with non B10 level players...but its not some fantasy, optimistic, take to say he'd fill his first IU roster with a good amount of P4 level players, probably including Stirtz... And again, not saying year 1 he wins 90% of his games... but if he "dropped off" similar to what Archie did, because of the difference in style, athletes, etc... jumping up to IU, what would that end up looking like?... its hard to think he'd drop as far as Archie did.

Archie's hype was based on one tournament run and a couple 25 win seasons. Those are "bad years" on McCollum's resume.

 

[CriticArisen]

Archie’s last season at Dayton he beat-
Alabama
Iowa
Vanderbilt
Arkansas
Miami

In February he was ranked 15th in the country and was 24-2 with much harder schedule.

By the way IU dropped from 56 to 57 NET as of today while Nebraska steady at 54.

But for comparison IU has played 15 quad1 games thus far and 2 more likely.

 

[mushroomgod_1]

Different times. Archie is obviously the one that should give everyone pause, and hopefully give some insight to Dolson on the importance of matching the personality, the style, the philosophy...everything...to both the specific job of coaching at Indiana, but also just being successful coaching high major basketball, right now, in general.

McCollum always ends up being the "Archie-comp"... And maybe for the exercise I listed above...that'll be the reason he isn't considered by Dolson...if he isn't. But McCollum does NOT equal Archie... Archie showed that he'd win less than 70% of his games...McCollum wins over 80 percent of his. Archie proved he doesn't consistently win his conference. McCollum won at least a share of his conference title his last 11 years at NWM...and looks to be doing the same at Drake this year. And then Archie had 1 NCAA tournament "run". McCollum won 4 National Titles... So...McCollum, to me, has mitigated some of those risks by how proficient and dominant he has been against his peers. A fall off for McCollum because he "Archie's" the job at IU...won't mean he misses the NCAA tournament...it means he won't win 80% of his games...instead, maybe 65%??? And to him...yes, that' will be failure. His failure would be the best coaching job we've seen since RMK.

And then if its not McCollum...all the rest of the guys mentioned regularly as the guys that are a tier below Beard and May... they've all proven that they'll win consistently at the P4 level.

AND...AND... IU has never had a solid basketball coach during the NIL/Portal era. And none of the "B tier" guys listed have ever had IU's resources.

Agree!! No Cronin, Brownell or Buzz. I'll have to look further at Smart, but probably no to him as well.

 

[IUNorth]

Archie’s last season at Dayton he beat-
Alabama
Iowa
Vanderbilt
Arkansas
Miami

In February he was ranked 15th in the country and was 24-2 with much harder schedule.

By the way IU dropped from 56 to 57 NET as of today while Nebraska steady at 54.

But for comparison IU has played 15 quad1 games thus far and 2 more likely.

His last couple teams at Dayton were good, no doubt.

Your facts are a little off...he was never 24-2, at any point, at Dayton. But he was close to that both his last two seasons...

He beat all those teams you mentioned over his last 2 years, not singularly in his last year.

And he also had losses in those seasons to teams like Chattanooga, LaSalle, Rhode Island, St Joe, UMass, George Washington, Davidson

We can go back and forth on all this all we want. Archie had a couple good years at Dayton. Dayton, at the time, was a tick above what Drake is, in terms of the hierarchy of college basketball. We'll see if Drake makes any noise this year in the NCAA, or even if they get there in the first place.

But man...12 straight conference championships. Over 80% lifetime winning percentage. 4 national titles. Multiple NCOY awards. And now 26-3 at his first D1 stop. And then now further evidence that Archie probably isn't a consistently good basketball coach, after all, from his Rhode Island teams performances...

I get the urge to compare the two...but they aren't comparable.

 

[CriticArisen]

His last couple teams at Dayton were good, no doubt.

Your facts are a little off...he was never 24-2, at any point, at Dayton. But he was close to that both his last two seasons...

He beat all those teams you mentioned over his last 2 years, not singularly in his last year.

And he also had losses in those seasons to teams like Chattanooga, LaSalle, Rhode Island, St Joe, UMass, George Washington, Davidson

We can go back and forth on all this all we want. Archie had a couple good years at Dayton. Dayton, at the time, was a tick above what Drake is, in terms of the hierarchy of college basketball. We'll see if Drake makes any noise this year in the NCAA, or even if they get there in the first place.

But man...12 straight conference championships. Over 80% lifetime winning percentage. 4 national titles. Multiple NCOY awards. And now 26-3 at his first D1 stop. And then now further evidence that Archie probably isn't a consistently good basketball coach, after all, from his Rhode Island teams performances...

I get the urge to compare the two...but they aren't comparable.

Here it is he beat all those teams 2015 2016 but you are right about record he was 25-7 pre tournament and ranked 15th in February

Scores
Bama 80~48
Iowa 82-77
Vbilt 72 67
Arkansas 85 81
Miami (OH) 64 63. I left out the OH before

2015-16 Dayton Flyers Men's Schedule and Results | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

Check out the detailed 2015-16 Dayton Flyers Schedule and Results for College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

www.sports-reference.com

I don’t think any mistakes at sports reference but could be.

 

[ge-off]

Brownell, Buzz, Cronin, Smart.....all of these guys are proven winners at big-time programs. Maybe not big-time in the terms that most of us like to think of our program, but all are qualified IMO. None of them are the "home-run, sexy, splashy" hire that many of us wanted, but in three or four years, I could see many walking back some of their comments being made as of late.

I don't think Stevens is in play, although his remarks were NOT "hard no". Sure he's happy at the Celtics. Sure, on that particular day, he didn't think he was a candidate. Still don't see it happening, tho. There has not been very much smoke around Few and Donovan like the last couple of trips around the coaching carousel so I don't think either one of those are in play. Sounds like Beard is a no-go, so that means Pitino is as well. I would be surprised if Drew would come here after turning down UK.

That pretty well leaves TJO, the above mentioned group, or take another "Archie Miller" chance with the McCulloms of the world.

I would take TJO, Brownell, Buzz Williams, Mick Cronin, Shaka Smart in that order.

My gawd! Just reading that list makes me want to just hire Alford! What the hell has Brownell done to earn this job? Same with Williams! Has anyone sat and listened to Buzz WillIms talk! He is Crean 2.0.

 

[ge-off]

Byington has proven more than any of those except Cronin. Won at JMU and is winning in the best conference this year, yet he is hardly mentioned.

 

[CriticArisen]

I don’t like Painter because he is PU’s coach but can’t argue that he hasn’t had a measure of success and that his players haven’t improved while in his program. I hate that he defended a mediocre lazy approach to IU coaching but he still has a point.

Presidents have changed, AD’s changed, coaches changed, players changed but still we have a mediocre program. He is right that the common denominator in this entire journey to basketball Hell are the fans. My belief is that the issue with the fanbase is this seeming never ending belief that IU has some magical amulet that guarantees high level basketball success. This was true even when RMK was fired. IU doesn’t have a magic amulet.

An outstanding, above good, coach is required to return IU to the ranks of a top program competitive with other top programs. So long as it is not accepted by the fanbase, and in turn the administration, that IU requires an exceptionally gifted coach then we will continue to muddle along repeating the same mistakes a couple times a decade. In this case zeke et al will continue to get the coaches they deserve. I am sorry to say and the rest of us have to follow along.

If Kurt is right then just another case of the AD making a basketball decision that was overridden by others and supported by a vocal portion of the fan base. Substitute Whitten for Buckner this time around.

 

[Tammany Hall]

Substitute Whitten for Buckner this time around.

Who is Pam's best pal she is pushing to be the next head coach?

Also, believe Kurt of all people at your own risk.

 

[ulrey]

I sure hope that either you or your “source” are full of shit. Not because I want Chris Beard to get the job, even though I do, but because if this is really the way the process has gone so far this is complete incompetence and dysfunction.

They don’t know shit..

 

[CriticArisen]

Who is Pam's best pal she is pushing to be the next head coach?

Also, believe Kurt of all people at your own risk.

Please TH. I didn’t say she wanted her golfing buddy just that she interfered in Dolson’s bball decision just as Buckner did if Kurt is right.

 

[abraxis]

you want "consistently good" I want consistently great that is where fan of IU differ. It will be apparent if and when IU misses out on a great hire numbers speak and great hires will be hired at big time school that value being great consistently.

If you want “consistently great” you’re going to be a hard man to please and a consistently disappointed one. Perhaps that attitude is the root cause of what Painter was referring to, our impatient fan base. Maybe the continual worshipping of the 5 dusty banners looming over Assembly Hall have become our stumbling block. Everyone likes to talk about how times have changed. Maybe it’s time we change our expectations to fit these modern times. IU fans used to complain that Knight didn’t change with the times, but I’m not so sure IU fans have either.

IU needs a coach whose personality…his ability to relate with fans, high school coaches, parents and media is found to be attractive. It needs to be a personality that naturally provides entertainment value such that fans will cut him some slack during the initial build up and cyclical rebuild of great teams.

I think Beard has that kind of ragged edge to him that would set him apart, exuding a commanding presence as he walks out of the tunnel before battle, a parting of the red sweaters, if you will, as if Moses parting the Red Sea.

 

[CriticArisen]

If you want “consistently great” you’re going to be a hard man to please and a consistently disappointed one. Perhaps that attitude is the root cause of what Painter was referring to, our impatient fan base. Maybe the continual worshipping of the 5 dusty banners looming over Assembly Hall have become our stumbling block. Everyone likes to talk about how times have changed. Maybe it’s time we change our expectations to fit these modern times. IU fans used to complain that Knight didn’t change with the times, but I’m not so sure IU fans have either.

IU needs a coach whose personality…his ability to relate with fans, high school coaches, parents and media is found to be attractive. It needs to be a personality that naturally provides entertainment value such that fans will cut him some slack during the initial build up and cyclical rebuild of great teams.

I think Beard has that kind of ragged edge to him that would set him apart, exuding a commanding presence as he walks out of the tunnel before battle, a parting of the red sweaters, if you will, as if Moses parting the Red Sea.

I like your imagery.

 

[CriticArisen]

Who is Pam's best pal she is pushing to be the next head coach?

Also, believe Kurt of all people at your own risk.

You are the most reasonable ever-optimist on here and I hope you are right. Actually Dolson will be strong enough to make a basketball decision without interference and we will all say-Wow.

 

[abraxis]

You are the most reasonable ever-optimist on here and I hope you are right. Actually Dolson will be strong enough to make a basketball decision without interference and we will all say-Wow.

The question remains, will it be an overwhelming “WOW!” implying an optimistic “We’re back!” or an underwhelming “wow” as if to say a pessimistic “Here we go again” in our cycle of short-lived coaching tenures. Looking at the current list of likely names, it appears to be trending more towards the latter than the former. Let’s hope it is a pleasant surprise. Who doesn’t like surprises when handed gift wrapped?

 

[CriticArisen]

The question remains, will it be an overwhelming “WOW!” implying an optimistic “We’re back!” or an underwhelming “wow” as if to say a pessimistic “Here we go again” in our cycle of short-lived coaching tenures. Looking at the current list of likely names, it appears to be trending more towards the latter than the former. Let’s hope it is a pleasant surprise. Who doesn’t like surprises when handed gift wrapped?

When you are a child yeah surprises are good like on Christmas morning. When you are an adult surprises are mostly bad like OMG how could that have possibly happened.

 

[.Gerdis]

I hear that, and yet I think overall we've been pretty patient with coaches. I thought Crean, Archie and Woody all could have been let go a year before they were. Very patient w Crean's rebuild and he was here what, 7-8 years? Archie never made a tourney appearance, and neither he nor Woody ever competed for the B10 title (I know folks want to claim we finished 2nd one year. Did we? Tied with NW who swept us and what, 3 games behind PU?). Isn't Woody the quickest one has been let go at 4 years? If Woody makes the tournament this year, I suppose you could argue a lesser program might've let him go, but you're talking way below B10 level. Maybe like an ETSU or something? A coach who comes in and has a decent first year or 2, depending on the situation, and then shows steady improvement is going to be fine.

If Paint is going to complain about not supporting coaches maybe he should look on his own campus. Where was he when they've been motoring through football coaches every 2-3 years for the last 10 years or so? What if Boiler fans had started supporting their coaches and players instead of tweeting and complaining about them? Get your own house straight Matt!

I didn’t hear Painters comments, so I’m not sure what he said or meant.

Yes, we have been patient with coaches, but I’m not sure if that will now change with the portal and nil.

But, supporting a coach isn’t the same thing as hiring him and giving him more time. It’s also not the same thing as paying high NIL. We do that. Our fans fill seats, buy merchandise and travel as well as anyone.

But, this is a job. Are the coaches getting the support from their bosses that they need to excel? We’ve seen organizations succeed and fail, and it’s not always about just the coach. And, NIL at the level of IU really makes things complex.

You are the most reasonable ever-optimist on here and I hope you are right. Actually Dolson will be strong enough to make a basketball decision without interference and we will all say-Wow.

It depends on who is going to run the program.

The coach isn’t signing the checks to the players. Neither is IU. So in effect you have a coach working for a University and players working for various owners, boosters and collectives. Johnny PG might be getting checks from acme, and Billy Banger PF might be getting his checks predominantly from Cabal Sportswear.

See the problem?

Should Dolson be independently making coaching decisions? That all depends on who is going to run the program.

I have a bad feeling that the IU basketball program is going to be controlled by a disparate group of owners, many of which have competing interests.

 

[abraxis]

When you are a child yeah surprises are good like on Christmas morning. When you are an adult surprises are mostly bad like OMG how could that have possibly happened.

Surprises of Messiah, reflections of my life take me back to warm thoughts of Christmas ‘morn.

 

[TDHoosier]

If you want “consistently great” you’re going to be a hard man to please and a consistently disappointed one. Perhaps that attitude is the root cause of what Painter was referring to, our impatient fan base. Maybe the continual worshipping of the 5 dusty banners looming over Assembly Hall have become our stumbling block. Everyone likes to talk about how times have changed. Maybe it’s time we change our expectations to fit these modern times. IU fans used to complain that Knight didn’t change with the times, but I’m not so sure IU fans have either.

IU needs a coach whose personality…his ability to relate with fans, high school coaches, parents and media is found to be attractive. It needs to be a personality that naturally provides entertainment value such that fans will cut him some slack during the initial build up and cyclical rebuild of great teams.

I think Beard has that kind of ragged edge to him that would set him apart, exuding a commanding presence as he walks out of the tunnel before battle, a parting of the red sweaters, if you will, as if Moses parting the Red Sea.

Beard has been my number 1 since Woodson retired. IU is to scared to hire him. We as usual will settle.

 

[CriticArisen]

I didn’t hear Painters comments, so I’m not sure what he said or meant.

Yes, we have been patient with coaches, but I’m not sure if that will now change with the portal and nil.

But, supporting a coach isn’t the same thing as hiring him and giving him more time. It’s also not the same thing as paying high NIL. We do that. Our fans fill seats, buy merchandise and travel as well as anyone.

But, this is a job. Are the coaches getting the support from their bosses that they need to excel? We’ve seen organizations succeed and fail, and it’s not always about just the coach. And, NIL at the level of IU really makes things complex.



It depends on who is going to run the program.

The coach isn’t signing the checks to the players. Neither is IU. So in effect you have a coach working for a University and players working for various owners, boosters and collectives. Johnny PG might be getting checks from acme, and Billy Banger PF might be getting his checks predominantly from Cabal Sportswear.

See the problem?

Should Dolson be independently making coaching decisions? That all depends on who is going to run the program.

I have a bad feeling that the IU basketball program is going to be controlled by a disparate group of owners, many of which have competing interests.

Good points and it is difficult to find someone tough enough to handle it.

 

[CriticArisen]

Surprises of Messiah, reflections of my life take me back to warm thoughts of Christmas ‘morn.

It used to be we did see IU basketball as the struggle of good against evil but now just a game I guess. You win you lose no big deal. Participate and give it a good go!

 

[Victorbmyboy]

Please TH. I didn’t say she wanted her golfing buddy just that she interfered in Dolson’s bball decision just as Buckner did if Kurt is right.

Whitten said no to Pat Fitzgerald before we settled on Cig. I would never say Whitten is Buckner.

 

[CriticArisen]

Whitten said no to Pat Fitzgerald before we settled on Cig. I would never say Whitten is Buckner.

I hope she is a bball genius operating behind the scenes then.

 

[abraxis]

It used to be we did see IU basketball as the struggle of good against evil but now just a game I guess. You win you lose no big deal. Participate and give it a good go!

It used to be us against the world of college basketball. Good was our basketball, evil our coach in the eyes of those we steamrolled.

Mired in the mud of mediocrity our tires just spin, the price we now pay for the “Hey, Knight!” sin.

 

[abraxis]

Beard has been my number 1 since Woodson retired. IU is to scared to hire him. We as usual will settle.

In the eyes of the mighty at IU, controversial coaches haven’t ended well…Knight, Sampson.

I think at this point in our search, Beard is the only coaching personality who will generate excitement from the onset.

“Bad boy, bad boy, whatcha gonna do when we come for you?”

 

[CriticArisen]

It used to be us against the world of college basketball. Good was our basketball, evil our coach in the eyes of those we steamrolled.

Mired in the mud of mediocrity our tires just spin, the price we now pay for the “Hey, Knight!” sin.

Hard to believe the impact of those two words on 25 years of basketball. The Devil was down in Bloomington that day.

 

[abraxis]

Hard to believe the impact of those two words on 25 years of basketball. The Devil was down in Bloomington that day.

The way the whole thing went down, beginning with many IU fans changing their feelings towards Knight as if a social ogre no longer good enough coach for us seems all so incredulous to me. We would have had many good years ahead of us, leading to a seamless transfer of leadership when he retired under his own volition. Those same people dissatisfied with Knight find themselves still dissatisfied today.

Are UCLA fans as frustrated today after Wooden retired with 10 NCAA titles and 15 conference championships as IU fans are today following Knight’s firing after 3 NCAA titles and 11 conference championships? Did Wooden’s success ruin it for subsequent UCLA coaches and fans?

 

[VanPastorMan]

RMK refused to suffer fools, regardless who they were, or what role they played. During that era, most fools kept their mouths shut

Unlike today.

Then they weren't as foolish as we thought.

 

[TDHoosier]

In the eyes of the mighty at IU, controversial coaches haven’t ended well…Knight, Sampson.

I think at this point in our search, Beard is the only coaching personality who will generate excitement from the onset.

“Bad boy, bad boy, whatcha gonna do when we come for you?”

You are correct makes me want so badly to dislike IU athletics. Haven’t watched a game in a month probably only 4-5 all season, trend will continue today.

 

[CriticArisen]

The way the whole thing went down, beginning with many IU fans changing their feelings towards Knight as if a social ogre no longer good enough coach for us seems all so incredulous to me. We would have had many good years ahead of us, leading to a seamless transfer of leadership when he retired under his own volition. Those same people dissatisfied with Knight find themselves still dissatisfied today.

Are UCLA fans as frustrated today after Wooden retired with 10 NCAA titles and 15 conference championships as IU fans are today following Knight’s firing after 3 NCAA titles and 11 conference championships? Did Wooden’s success ruin it for subsequent UCLA coaches and fans?

Not sure about UCLA. Wooden retired in 75 and Barton took over 75-76 season and here are their tourney results by year. It is much much better than our results. Pretty spectacular compared to us. I don’t see a Wooden hangover and they don’t look very tolerant of coaches that don’t meet expectations.

If no entry didn’t make tourny

76 3rd place: won consolation game final four. Gene Bartow
77 lost in sweet sixteen
78 lost in sweet sixteen. Gary Cunningham
79 lost in elite eight
80 National champion. Larry Brown
81 lost round of 32
83 lost round of 32. Larry Farmer
87 lost second round. Walt Hazzard
89 lost second round
90 lost sweet sixteen. Jim Harrick
91 lost first round
92 lost elite eight
93 lost second round
94 lost first round
95 National Champion
96 lost first round
97 lost elite eight. Jim Lavin
98 lost sweet sixteen
99 lost first round
00 lost sweet sixteen
01 lost sweet sixteen
02 lost sweet sixteen
05 lost first round. Ben Howland
06 National Champion
07 lost final four
08 lost final four
09 lost second round
11 lost second round
12 lost first round
14 lost sweet sixteen. Steve Alford
15 lost sweet sixteen
17 lost sweet sixteen
18 lost play in
21 final four. Cronin
22 lost sweet sixteen
23 lost sweet sixteen

 

[IndyMitchell]

Beard has been my number 1 since Woodson retired. IU is to scared to hire him. We as usual will settle.

I wanted Beard 4 years ago.

 

[Myhurricane]

I wanted Beard 4 years ago.

Same. Beard would be a bold winning move which is why I very much doubt they hire him.

 

[abraxis]

You are correct makes me want so badly to dislike IU athletics. Haven’t watched a game in a month probably only 4-5 all season, trend will continue today.

Do you deny yourself pleasures of the flesh, too?

 

[kmathum]

Do you deny yourself pleasures of the flesh, too?

Only my essence.