Probably involved Buckner. Can’t fire his buddy and then bring in Beard. Buckner and his booster buddies. Same ingredients as the previous recipes that cause us to suck.
she so wrong
- Thread starter kurt cloverdales
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Power and Politics are issues in many churches. Hypocrites in leadership might be the thing I most despise.
Marred in mediocrity that is the IU way. I love the Coach Cig references, Dolson took a flyer on a guy who it looks as if no one else really wanted and it paid off. Hindsight is 20/20 and the hire looks like a home run, if it went the other way no one would care. Dolson was basically in a no loose situation, no pressure with the football hire.
IU basketball is different this is an opportunity to bring in a coach that puts fear into the rest of the Big 10 and like the last two times we will fail to complete the mission. If it is Whitten than nixed it then screw her I hope her entire tenure at IU is full of piss poor men’s basketball. She is well on her way with Woody the last 4 years.
IU basketball is different this is an opportunity to bring in a coach that puts fear into the rest of the Big 10 and like the last two times we will fail to complete the mission. If it is Whitten than nixed it then screw her I hope her entire tenure at IU is full of piss poor men’s basketball. She is well on her way with Woody the last 4 years.
They were never going to announce anything while the season is still going.No worries, we have it on good authority from IUN and Zeke that there are tons of good candidates out there.
There are plenty of good candidates. And nearly all of them are coaching college teams right now. Just like our current coach is.
When you have people doing the hiring that shouldn’t be involved or have limited involvement then you’re going to be mediocre.
When did Kent say they have their guy? Can you link it? I listen to his YT post everyday but not his radio broadcasts.
I hope everyone says no now and they have to come back to Beard
Did you mean to say “hiring” or did you mean to say “hiring and management of the program “?
So which is the smoke screen: Dusty, Chris, Brad, Rick or TJ? I'm not saying we can't or won't hit a home run, although you generally don't get 5-6 strikes to do it, I'm saying there aren't a ton of realistic options out there and it's hard to find the match.
Plus, the thing I really liked about Beard is that he supposedly really wanted the job, and we wouldn't have had to sell him. I think that makes a difference, especially early.
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Beard’s agent was trying to get him considered for the Miami job earlier this year. Seems like he mostly wants out of Ole Miss pretty bad.
How the hell do we actually know that any of them were "strikes"...or that none of those guys will be the coach... if we've learned anything the last few "big decision" announcements...its that we often don't know a damn thing until the hours leading up to the decision. Nothing has been leaked, we have no idea who Dolson is considering or talking to. People like you make speculating about all this quite a lot less "fun".
If it ends up being someone like a McCollum, or DeVries, or McDermott, or McMillan, or Schertz, or McCasland, or heck, even Brownell...he'll be the best coach we've had since RMK (Sampson doesn't count). And with someone as solid as those guys, or anyone like them, we probably won't know if we "missed" for a few years... Until then, it'd be MUCH more likely than not that we'd get to enjoy consistently good, competitive basketball.
Well true, just looking for something that might cause them to look in the mirror
Well, I've had a few different people tell me all about what happened one night in Austin 3 years ago and with Chris Beard prior to that, DUI's, arrests, fights, etc... we have a few folks who must be very tied into LE in Austin, Lubbock and beyond. Therefore, I thought repeating 2nd hand info in a current case we're all actually following and have podcasters/influencers commenting on was pretty solid. I bet about 8 years ago, you'd have included Archie in that list of guys that would be "better than what we've had" and bring us several years of good competitive bball, but we know how that went.
You don't think we reached out to, and now struck out on Stevens, May, Beard and TJO? From reports, I think communication with those guys is likely. Maybe there's still an ember burning with TJO, but Trilly (was there someone else too?) nixing seems like it's probably past. Really gonna hurt if he ends up at UVA. But if we accept that those 4 are off the board, it seems likely we're into the second grouping and that most of them are less certain and proven. I think after the last 20+ years, we need a better hire than several years of good competitive bball. Heck, if CMW finds a way to get this team in the tourney, season results wise, you can almost argue he did that, and I think all of us want better than that.
I’m fairly convinced that there are places Miller could have gone to and done better than he did at IU.
And I think the same of the list being floated now. I have no reason to assume that each of those up and comers would do better at IU than they would at, say Iowa.
well, you can cross Rhode Island off the list I'd say.
No reason, really? So you're a really good coach, you don't want a top 10 NIL, rabid fanbase who turns out and supports you with sellouts and almost full stands even in down years and on the road? Someplace that has 5 NCs in it's history and is in one of the top 2 best conferences for revenue and ratings and revenue sharing? You don't see any advantage to coming to IU with all those resources at your disposal and the possibility of stepping in and competing at the top of the conference with the likes of an aging Izzo, Painter, and May vs the SEC where you currently have 4 of the top 6-7 programs? There's a ton of reasons I think. You don't agree? You see Iowa as on equal footing there? Checked ESPN, Iowas last couple games show attendance 8-10.5K, ours are 17.2. I know we're not getting that many, but those are sold seats, which again, to me is a big benefit. Curious how you see those as equal footings?
IU has advantages, I don’t see Iowa as ever being an elite program.
But, it takes a unique coach to succeed at IU. I think you could take a list of 10 up and comers, bring them to IU and for numerous reasons they would have results similar to Miller.
Whoever comes here is going to be expected to win , and quickly. At Iowa perhaps not so much.
I see IU as a program where a new coach can makes us elite again, sure. But the things that make us unique also lower the floor. A coach isn’t going to be able to come in and build something and expect to have time on his side.
I hear that, and yet I think overall we've been pretty patient with coaches. I thought Crean, Archie and Woody all could have been let go a year before they were. Very patient w Crean's rebuild and he was here what, 7-8 years? Archie never made a tourney appearance, and neither he nor Woody ever competed for the B10 title (I know folks want to claim we finished 2nd one year. Did we? Tied with NW who swept us and what, 3 games behind PU?). Isn't Woody the quickest one has been let go at 4 years? If Woody makes the tournament this year, I suppose you could argue a lesser program might've let him go, but you're talking way below B10 level. Maybe like an ETSU or something? A coach who comes in and has a decent first year or 2, depending on the situation, and then shows steady improvement is going to be fine.
If Paint is going to complain about not supporting coaches maybe he should look on his own campus. Where was he when they've been motoring through football coaches every 2-3 years for the last 10 years or so? What if Boiler fans had started supporting their coaches and players instead of tweeting and complaining about them? Get your own house straight Matt!
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No one knows the future of a very complex and very highly competitive situation. That is why a risk analysis is necessary and the more resume you have the less risk you present. Would anyone claim that now, before the fact, that say hiring Dan Hurley as next coach presents the same risk as McCollum. Similarly, ex the knee jerk moralists, would anyone claim Beard presents the same risk as McCollum. Jeez if all the same risk then just go to the cheapest mid major and be done with it. Let zeke throw a dart.
After all the misses sad to think that out of the list of potential candidates we would again go with a relatively high risk mid major.
After all the misses sad to think that out of the list of potential candidates we would again go with a relatively high risk mid major.
Nothing you typed is confirmed or substantiated.
I think its likely Dolson has reached out to, however AD's and search firms do it nowadays, a lot of potential candidates. Most of them are coaching relatively successful college basketball teams right now. But maybe he hasn't?
And even if he "had" his guy, and that guy wasn't coaching at all right now (Stevens or Wright maybe)...we STILL wouldn't know that because we technically don't have a job opening at the moment, and we have a team that's still trying to make the NCAA tournament...and has a legitimate shot at it.
So...the possibilities are still many...and there are a lot of very good possibilities.
All of the new contract guys...I haven't heard or noticed that any of their buyouts got any bigger, or more difficult. So even those guys, how do we know if they're still in play or not? Nothing has really "changed", as it pertains to how IU and them would have to handle them being hired away to IU.
I'm pretty confident none of: Stevens, Beard, May, Pitino, or TJO are going to be our next coach and I'd bet that we reached out, through other channels to each of them except Pitino. But, yes, not substantiated. Lots of good coaches and lots of good "possibilities", but not lots of good coaches that are likely possibilities. I'd say then youre down to half a dozen and we've probably eliminated that many, so the sledding is getting tougher I believe.
you want "consistently good" I want consistently great that is where fan of IU differ. It will be apparent if and when IU misses out on a great hire numbers speak and great hires will be hired at big time school that value being great consistently.
We have an opening so it could be announced. Miami just stated they will be hiring Jai Lucas, now granted they are not in the running to possibly make the post season so it makes it easier. IU could absolutely announce Woody's replacement if in fact he was already on board.
We are not going to get any of the new contract guys, IMO. Buyouts large and salaries large and the optics on that coach would be poor, ie May ain't coming.
There is a misconception by many fans that IU can pull any coach , you're correct the sledding is getting tougher because this is not the case. There is a difference between a ton of good coaches and how many of those would come to IU, I believe the number is small.
I believe you said you wanted to go back being a sales rep. I don’t know anything about being a sales rep but gotta think your natural optimism would serve you extremely well in that position.
I can imagine now you speaking with a client that complains about their incoming quality control rejecting too much of your product. Your answer is-You have to wait and see if there is any impact on failures of your end use profuct. Maybe it will be fine.
You're missing my point...
If we have to "settle" for a guy like McCollum, McCasland, DeVries, McDermott, Cronin, Williams, Brownell, etc... And I think we're at a point with how invested many of us got with the thought that we could be getting Stevens, or May, or Beard...that any name on that list, or anyone else, will be a disappointment to many, and will feel like we had to lower our standards to make the hire.
So if one of those fellas ends up being the guy... I think our absolute "floor" with any of those guys, is 20 wins, slightly over .500 in conference, and solid NCAA team. If we had 3-4 years of that...it might be the most consistent success we've had since RMK. Its not the same "risk" as what we had with Davis, Crean, Woodson... Odds are the coach probably isn't even on that list, but I don't think its a reach to expect that we'll land someone of similar caliber, and someone with a similar "floor".
The long term key would be what is any of them, and specifically, the new coach's ACTUAL floor, and then what's their ceiling. But if a guy from the list above, or someone like them, comes in and has similar results to what they've proven they'll produce at previous coaching stops...its gonna take us a few years before we even start to suspect we might not have "the answer". Maybe that's worse in some ways??? But I'll enjoy solid basketball, and solid NCAA tournament teams, if that's "ALL" they end up being.
I just don't think we know any of that, at this point. He literally could already have Beard, or May, or McCollum, or whoever, done in principle...and he's just waiting for both teams to be done. Leaking that info, would be awful for both programs right now, if he does have it decided already.
Brownell, Buzz, Cronin, Smart.....all of these guys are proven winners at big-time programs. Maybe not big-time in the terms that most of us like to think of our program, but all are qualified IMO. None of them are the "home-run, sexy, splashy" hire that many of us wanted, but in three or four years, I could see many walking back some of their comments being made as of late.
I don't think Stevens is in play, although his remarks were NOT "hard no". Sure he's happy at the Celtics. Sure, on that particular day, he didn't think he was a candidate. Still don't see it happening, tho. There has not been very much smoke around Few and Donovan like the last couple of trips around the coaching carousel so I don't think either one of those are in play. Sounds like Beard is a no-go, so that means Pitino is as well. I would be surprised if Drew would come here after turning down UK.
That pretty well leaves TJO, the above mentioned group, or take another "Archie Miller" chance with the McCulloms of the world.
I would take TJO, Brownell, Buzz Williams, Mick Cronin, Shaka Smart in that order.
I don't think Stevens is in play, although his remarks were NOT "hard no". Sure he's happy at the Celtics. Sure, on that particular day, he didn't think he was a candidate. Still don't see it happening, tho. There has not been very much smoke around Few and Donovan like the last couple of trips around the coaching carousel so I don't think either one of those are in play. Sounds like Beard is a no-go, so that means Pitino is as well. I would be surprised if Drew would come here after turning down UK.
That pretty well leaves TJO, the above mentioned group, or take another "Archie Miller" chance with the McCulloms of the world.
I would take TJO, Brownell, Buzz Williams, Mick Cronin, Shaka Smart in that order.
It’s painful for everyone to bring up Archie but who before the fact would have believed his floor was what it was. The glowing expectations for Archie started running in to a headwind with his very first regular season opener with ISU. Who could have possibly expected that. I will post a few of the statements about his hire but before the ISU game below-
“Dayton averaged more than 25 wins per year over the past four, winning consecutive Atlantic 10 conference titles in 2016 and 2017. The Flyers finished with a winning record in conference in five of Miller’s six years in charge, and won at least 13 games per year in each of the past three.”
“The brother of Arizona coach Sean Miller, Archie Miller is widely viewed in much the same way his brother was when Sean moved west from Xavier in 2009: as one of college basketball’s most promising young talents.”
“It’s an awesome hire,” said ESPN college basketball and recruiting expert Jeff Borzello. “Archie has been one of the hottest names in coaching for several years now, with his name attached to a variety of openings. But he wanted an elite-level job, and that’s what Indiana is.”
I could fill pages with high expectations for Archie before his first regular season disaster no less. I don’t think you could have foreseen how low his floor was. This is no knock on you because I couldn’t have foreseen it either.
My point is that bringing in a mid major has considerable risk and maybe it will work out but statistically likely not to. The chance that we hire a mid major coach that makes deep tourney runs in a reasonable amount of time is low and further complicated by the now chronic underachievement of the program and with a total rebuild required. It could possibly work out but unlikely. So likely back in the same place four seasons from now having the same argument. We do have plenty of experience with that.
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Brad Underwood was hired by Illinois at the same time Archie was hired and it took him a couple seasons but his results have been respectable tournament runs with no home court crushes by ISU. I wouldn’t say his results have been what I would like from annIU blue blood coach but he would have been a better hire than Archie but no one apparently saw it.
Different times. Archie is obviously the one that should give everyone pause, and hopefully give some insight to Dolson on the importance of matching the personality, the style, the philosophy...everything...to both the specific job of coaching at Indiana, but also just being successful coaching high major basketball, right now, in general.
McCollum always ends up being the "Archie-comp"... And maybe for the exercise I listed above...that'll be the reason he isn't considered by Dolson...if he isn't. But McCollum does NOT equal Archie... Archie showed that he'd win less than 70% of his games...McCollum wins over 80 percent of his. Archie proved he doesn't consistently win his conference. McCollum won at least a share of his conference title his last 11 years at NWM...and looks to be doing the same at Drake this year. And then Archie had 1 NCAA tournament "run". McCollum won 4 National Titles... So...McCollum, to me, has mitigated some of those risks by how proficient and dominant he has been against his peers. A fall off for McCollum because he "Archie's" the job at IU...won't mean he misses the NCAA tournament...it means he won't win 80% of his games...instead, maybe 65%??? And to him...yes, that' will be failure. His failure would be the best coaching job we've seen since RMK.
And then if its not McCollum...all the rest of the guys mentioned regularly as the guys that are a tier below Beard and May... they've all proven that they'll win consistently at the P4 level.
AND...AND... IU has never had a solid basketball coach during the NIL/Portal era. And none of the "B tier" guys listed have ever had IU's resources.
It has been pointed out repeatedly that his offensive style is not conducive to Div1 deep tournament runs. I know you are a glass is half full kind of guy but I just do not agree with your perception of risk for this hire. Is Div1 less competitive now than when Archie was hired-absolutely not. Was the same argument made about Archie having additional resources-yes.
I simply don’t agree that IU’s NIL results in a material competitive advantage vis a vis the other top tier programs and so plug and play for coaching success. This is basically the same argument for the last 20 years. IU has the secret sauce so hard to fail with a plug and play coach.
D1....or B10 level D1?
He's 26-3...and beat the only 3 P4 teams he played against. I'd say he's adjusting just fine to "D1" ball, so far. Further, he basically had to rebuild the entire team from scratch, its not like he inherited a stacked roster...he brought a few guys with him from NWMS... and filled out the rest with transfers and frosh...and is 26-3.
I think his offensive pace of play has been questioned...but I'm not sure his style isn't conducive to winning the NCAA tournament?
I've been pretty consistent that his pace of play isn't ideal. But don't have enough historical knowledge to know if he's running the offense this way because 1)he has Bennett Stirtz, one of the best guards in the country at any level, and he's best when he's dribbling around and probing the defense for passes and shots 2) he's competing against D1 level talent and competition, with many D2 level players.
Obviously coaches that have stepped up from lower levels to high major D1 have failed before. But I'm not sure a coach that has won what will be 12 conference titles in a row, at 2 different levels, 4 Natty's, many NCOY awards... has failed before? Not all "inexperienced" guys are created equal. And not all of them are as risky as the others.
As I remember it, most of those churches that rigorously opposed divorce on religious grounds never showed much concern about infidelity on religious grounds or much concern about wife-beating on religious grounds.
RMK refused to suffer fools, regardless who they were, or what role they played. During that era, most fools kept their mouths shut
Unlike today.
D1 in its entirety-the field for the tournament.
Drake has played 1 quad1 game and beat Vanderbilt. They lost 2 to Illinois Chicago. Completely different level of competition at IU.
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