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Russia-Ukraine war has begun

Evidently there is one numbers game that Putin is losing to Ukraine and it’s not surprising. Ukrainian citizens are making homemade drones. I don’t know what the numbers are, but Putin has been hiding the truth of this war from his citizens and has thus lost their potential collaboration. Ukraine citizens are collaborating in full force.

We know what American citizens were able to do during World War II when we mobilized full force.

That’s the power of free will in a free society.
 
You could draw a parallel between the American colonies fighting for independence from Great Britain and Ukraine fighting their war for independence from Russia today. Ukrainians are “earning“ their independence, and I can imagine that they’re going to appreciate, cherish, and value it all the more when they succeed.
 
Seems to me the conventional wisdom is that, given an infinite amount of time, only Russia can win this war. But no one has an infinite amount of time. I'd bet money that Z figures Ukraine can keep fighting at least as long as Putin has left on this world. Hell, Afghanistan held out against the Soviets for a decade.

2014 Ukraine might have been an iffier proposition, but I'm thinking Z is fairly confident at the moment.
Yeah, I've used the Afghanistan example that a Soviet/Russian win isn't inevitable, just as our victory over N. Vietnam wasn't a given (although we put too many rules on our own troops to win).

This seems to be kind of big deal..... Seems Z might have had a premonition when he said Putin would die before him.

 
Seems to me the conventional wisdom is that, given an infinite amount of time, only Russia can win this war. But no one has an infinite amount of time. I'd bet money that Z figures Ukraine can keep fighting at least as long as Putin has left on this world. Hell, Afghanistan held out against the Soviets for a decade.

2014 Ukraine might have been an iffier proposition, but I'm thinking Z is fairly confident at the moment.

 

I read Taibbi, I read the Times. What in the Times article is nearly as bad as he makes it sound? Yes, we supply a lot of intel and weapons to Ukraine, we all knew that. Yes, we have slowly removed constraints from Ukraine (ratcheting up probably would be the term), but we have known that was happening. I didn't see anything in there that was "oh my God, that's a betrayal." What did I miss?
 
I read Taibbi, I read the Times. What in the Times article is nearly as bad as he makes it sound? Yes, we supply a lot of intel and weapons to Ukraine, we all knew that. Yes, we have slowly removed constraints from Ukraine (ratcheting up probably would be the term), but we have known that was happening. I didn't see anything in there that was "oh my God, that's a betrayal." What did I miss?
I don't know. Didn't read them yet. Thought it was pertinent, though, so linked it.
 
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I thought Mas had insinuated the war was over and that Russia had won

I think it was CNN that had a general making an interesting point. Russia started using Wagner Group mercenaries, and they took a lot of casualties. The Russian people didn't care. Then, Russia opened up her prisons, and those prisoners took a lot of casualties. But they ran out of prisoners to serve as bullet catchers. Some North Koreans are filling that role now, but not nearly as many as there are Ukrainian rounds. So the war finally has come home to ordinary Russians in numbers it hadn't.
 
I think it was CNN that had a general making an interesting point. Russia started using Wagner Group mercenaries, and they took a lot of casualties. The Russian people didn't care. Then, Russia opened up her prisons, and those prisoners took a lot of casualties. But they ran out of prisoners to serve as bullet catchers. Some North Koreans are filling that role now, but not nearly as many as there are Ukrainian rounds. So the war finally has come home to ordinary Russians in numbers it hadn't.
I think I read that the latest conscription is 160,000. A pic I saw showed a bunch of normal looking young guys lined up to get processed.

You're right - this is going to impact the average Russians a lot more than previous years.

These kids may actually be more motivated, but 160,000 would be off the field in less than a year, at current casualty rates.
 
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I think I read that the latest conscription is 160,000. A pic I saw showed a bunch of normal looking young guys lined up to get processed.

You're right - this is going to impact the average Russians a lot more than previous years.

These kids may actually be more motivated, but 160,000 would be off the field in less than a year, at current casualty rates.
Putin has been letting Russians flee the country so he’s left to conscript his own voters…
 
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Putin has been letting Russians flee the country so he’s left to conscript his own voters…
At this point, the smart move for Putin would be to say "OK, we've accomplished all our goals of the Special Military Operation" and from now on, we'll only protect those areas we've annexed into Russia to protect that Russian population. No more offensive operations. We accept a 100% cease fire."

You know Trump would agree to this and put Ukraine in a bad position.

I can't see a downside for Putin in this and he would be popular at home (well, except for the families of the almost 1 million casualties)
 
latest conscription is 160,000
106 days of "inventory" and then they start over, with the current averages.


At this point, the smart move for Putin would be to say "OK, we've accomplished all our goals of the Special Military Operation" and from now on, we'll only protect those areas we've annexed into Russia to protect that Russian population. No more offensive operations. We accept a 100% cease fire."

You know Trump would agree to this and put Ukraine in a bad position.

I can't see a downside for Putin in this and he would be popular at home (well, except for the families of the almost 1 million casualties)
Ukraine will never accept this. They are building 5 million drones a year now, and they will continue to rain hell on Russia. And I am damn happy for them to do it.
 
106 days of "inventory" and then they start over, with the current averages.



Ukraine will never accept this. They are building 5 million drones a year now, and they will continue to rain hell on Russia. And I am damn happy for them to do it.
I agree they won't accept it. I'm just surprised Putin doesn't try it. Trump could wash his hands of the whole thing.

I think these guys can't see the forest for the trees.
 
I agree they won't accept it. I'm just surprised Putin doesn't try it. Trump could wash his hands of the whole thing.

I think these guys can't see the forest for the trees.
Trump won't wash his hands of anything. He has to win. If Putin Fiddles Around much longer, Trumps next move is offer much more support to Ukraine and no restrictions to Ukraine, that will loosen up the minerals and probably other Trump asks from them.
Ukraine nails the EFF out of Moscow and St Pete now that they have 1,500+ kM drones/ rockets and US Flying boomie things.
Puitty finally gets to the Find Out phase and goes home and dies, from a fall out a window.

That is what I see happening, but time will tell.
 
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