Russia-Ukraine war has begun

[crazed_hoosier2]

It's okay to be critical of Trump when he says something as stupid as what you've claimed you won't defend, yet you're here telling me he didn't mean what he said in the first place.

This is why people on the left say people on the right are in a cult. A statement claiming Ukraine started the war with Russia is something that some will defend, giving our favorite excuse, that's not what he meant.

In fairness, this malady afflicts tribalists of both tribes. They each recognize it -- but only in the other one.

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

It's okay to be critical of Trump when he says something as stupid as what you've claimed you won't defend, yet you're here telling me he didn't mean what he said in the first place.

This is why people on the left say people on the right are in a cult. A statement claiming Ukraine started the war with Russia is something that some will defend, giving our favorite excuse, that's not what he meant.

One other thing I'd say on this...

There's a difference between saying something stupid off-the-cuff and deliberately staking out a bad position. I can believe that Trump's comment suggesting Ukraine started the war was the former. I'm far more concerned about the latter.

Vladimir Putin is a snake. We shouldn't be doing anything that props him up or helps him advance his interests -- especially unilaterally...as Trump and Putin (along with the duplicitous Saudis) come together to determine Ukraine's future without Ukraine even so much as being allowed in the room.

If Trump doesn't want his critics saying that he's Vladimir Putin's bitch, maybe he shouldn't act like it?

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

One other thing I'd say on this...

There's a difference between saying something stupid off-the-cuff and deliberately staking out a bad position. I can believe that Trump's comment suggesting Ukraine started the war was the former. I'm far more concerned about the latter.

Vladimir Putin is a snake. We shouldn't be doing anything that props him up or helps him advance his interests -- especially unilaterally...as Trump and Putin (along with the duplicitous Saudis) come together to determine Ukraine's future without Ukraine even so much as being allowed in the room.

If Trump doesn't want his critics saying that he's Vladimir Putin's bitch, maybe he shouldn't act like it?

It's early in the process, but all signs are that Putin won't have to surrender any of the territory it gained in his illegal invasion of Ukraine. This will be a Putin victory if that's the case.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

British Army 'absolutely ready' if ordered to deploy to Ukraine

It comes as 2,500 UK troops take part in Nato's largest exercise this year near Ukraine's border.

www.bbc.com

 

[DANC]

I am sick about the way Zelensky is being treated. Where was this kind of trashing before the election?

Trump met with him and everything seemed pretty upbeat as far as our relationship. Now it's constant sniping at him. Meanwhile, Z doesn't respond in kind, which probably pissed Trump off more.

2 factors here: Zelensky, on his last visit, flew into Pennsylvania and appeared to be campaigning against Trump. Second, Zelensky nixed the $500 billion deal on rare earth materials. It was after that, the claws came out.

This isn't the way I thought this would go at all, based on the fact Trump ran on negotiating from a position of strength. As far as I can tell, there is no actual negotiating - it's all demands.

 

[DANC]

British Army 'absolutely ready' if ordered to deploy to Ukraine

It comes as 2,500 UK troops take part in Nato's largest exercise this year near Ukraine's border.

www.bbc.com

If we're not going to step up, Europe needs to. It seems to be the only positive that can come out of our position at the moment.

 

[IUCrazy2]

It's early in the process, but all signs are that Putin won't have to surrender any of the territory it gained in his illegal invasion of Ukraine. This will be a Putin victory if that's the case.

To me it isn't the territory. Honestly, facts on the ground have dictated for awhile that was going to be the case. To me it is some of the leaks about pulling back in Eastern Europe or threatening to leave NATO completely if the deal isn't accepted, no questions asked, and that isn't even touching on the fact that the "deal" now appears to be that Russia gets everything on its wishlist and in return we get a promise from them to stop a war in which the only thing we have lost is some treasure and equipment.

We have come this far, I would expect we could extract some other concessions from a "Power" using North Koreans as gun fodder and horses to move equipment. I still don't believe that Ukraine would be able to regain that territory militarily but they could definitely bleed Russia for some time. And continuing the conflict does have the added threat for the Russians of facing more attacks on their home soil. The opening offer should have been you withdraw or I set a plan to invite them into NATO. If you don't want that, I suggest you have a seat and talk.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

To me it isn't the territory. Honestly, facts on the ground have dictated for awhile that was going to be the case. To me it is some of the leaks about pulling back in Eastern Europe or threatening to leave NATO completely if the deal isn't accepted, no questions asked, and that isn't even touching on the fact that the "deal" now appears to be that Russia gets everything on its wishlist and in return we get a promise from them to stop a war in which the only thing we have lost is some treasure and equipment.

We have come this far, I would expect we could extract some other concessions from a "Power" using North Koreans as gun fodder and horses to move equipment. I still don't believe that Ukraine would be able to regain that territory militarily but they could definitely bleed Russia for some time. And continuing the conflict does have the added threat for the Russians of facing more attacks on their home soil. The opening offer should have been you withdraw or I set a plan to invite them into NATO. If you don't want that, I suggest you have a seat and talk.

I will say that renormalization with Russia, which has started, is also terrible. If I were dictator we wouldn't normalize until double the number of days the war lasted. The sooner we normalize, the sooner their economy rebuilds and their tank production increases.

 

[The Original Happy Goat]

To me it isn't the territory. Honestly, facts on the ground have dictated for awhile that was going to be the case. To me it is some of the leaks about pulling back in Eastern Europe or threatening to leave NATO completely if the deal isn't accepted, no questions asked, and that isn't even touching on the fact that the "deal" now appears to be that Russia gets everything on its wishlist and in return we get a promise from them to stop a war in which the only thing we have lost is some treasure and equipment.

We have come this far, I would expect we could extract some other concessions from a "Power" using North Koreans as gun fodder and horses to move equipment. I still don't believe that Ukraine would be able to regain that territory militarily but they could definitely bleed Russia for some time. And continuing the conflict does have the added threat for the Russians of facing more attacks on their home soil. The opening offer should have been you withdraw or I set a plan to invite them into NATO. If you don't want that, I suggest you have a seat and talk.

I think now would be a good time to remind everyone that the reason I so strongly opposed Trump's reelection was his stance on NATO. It's a rare election that foreign policy actually becomes relevant, but this was one of them.

 

[Joe_Hoopsier]

Mi6 teaching UAF SOF? hmmm

 

[Joe_Hoopsier]

I got to thinking, as we close very close to 1 Million russian casualties, and the russian mail order bride industry.
One can not spell Bride, without using the letters "ride".

Was this intentional, ya think?
I know that ya'll, as my friends, wouldn't want to ask for yourselves, so... I am asking for a friend(s).

 

[DANC]

To me it isn't the territory. Honestly, facts on the ground have dictated for awhile that was going to be the case. To me it is some of the leaks about pulling back in Eastern Europe or threatening to leave NATO completely if the deal isn't accepted, no questions asked, and that isn't even touching on the fact that the "deal" now appears to be that Russia gets everything on its wishlist and in return we get a promise from them to stop a war in which the only thing we have lost is some treasure and equipment.

We have come this far, I would expect we could extract some other concessions from a "Power" using North Koreans as gun fodder and horses to move equipment. I still don't believe that Ukraine would be able to regain that territory militarily but they could definitely bleed Russia for some time. And continuing the conflict does have the added threat for the Russians of facing more attacks on their home soil. The opening offer should have been you withdraw or I set a plan to invite them into NATO. If you don't want that, I suggest you have a seat and talk.

Bleed them enough and they'll leave. Shit, we quit Vietnam and Afghanistan, losing far, far fewer personnel and our economy was roaring during both wars.

The Soviets quit Afghanistan. Make them bleed enough and they'll go home.

If Ukraine is willing to continue, why should be stop them.