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Russia-Ukraine war has begun

Trump says Ukraine should not have fought Russia but instead should have made a deal.

That's a stupid take.
Why are they still fighting and why isn't the media asking questions? On Jan 21 both parties were supposed to immediately cease all combat operations.
 
If this deal were accepted - spoiler: it won't be - that would be a win. They'd get to keep the four oblasts they annexed, and Ukraine would have to leave Kursk? There is no way Zelensky agrees to that.
It looks like Russia gets every stated goal. And they get all that rare earth minerals, frankly probably the real reason they attacked. Whenever Britain gets tired of peacekeeping, maybe 5 years, Russia gets another bite.
 
The more I think, what in there is a Russian concession? I knew Ukraine was going to lose some or most, but they lose it all. My guess is no Russians will face war crimes. No indemnity for starting the war. I thought having Russia compensate Ukraine would 1) slow Russian rearmament 2) speed up Ukraine's to slow the next bite at the apple.

I am disappointed, I thought Russia would be asked to concede something, somewhere. I would have settled for a free trip to the Hague for Vlad. I know, that was never going to happen but one can dream

No word on when sanctions against Russia come off. Maybe the answer is, "not until Putin is dead 20 years." That might be a little win. But I suspect they come off in hours after the signing
 
The more I think, what in there is a Russian concession? I knew Ukraine was going to lose some or most, but they lose it all. My guess is no Russians will face war crimes. No indemnity for starting the war. I thought having Russia compensate Ukraine would 1) slow Russian rearmament 2) speed up Ukraine's to slow the next bite at the apple.

I am disappointed, I thought Russia would be asked to concede something, somewhere. I would have settled for a free trip to the Hague for Vlad. I know, that was never going to happen but one can dream

No word on when sanctions against Russia come off. Maybe the answer is, "not until Putin is dead 20 years." That might be a little win. But I suspect they come off in hours after the signing
It might not even be a real leak. It's just some guy on Twitter.

I certainly hope it isn't real.
 
The more I think, what in there is a Russian concession? I knew Ukraine was going to lose some or most, but they lose it all. My guess is no Russians will face war crimes. No indemnity for starting the war. I thought having Russia compensate Ukraine would 1) slow Russian rearmament 2) speed up Ukraine's to slow the next bite at the apple.

I am disappointed, I thought Russia would be asked to concede something, somewhere. I would have settled for a free trip to the Hague for Vlad. I know, that was never going to happen but one can dream

No word on when sanctions against Russia come off. Maybe the answer is, "not until Putin is dead 20 years." That might be a little win. But I suspect they come off in hours after the signing
This must be a a real 'leak' - it's on the internet.

Don't get your panties in a wad - this is not the Trump proposal.
 
This must be a a real 'leak' - it's on the internet.

Don't get your panties in a wad - this is not the Trump proposal.
I backed off once I saw the source was the Daily Mail. In this thread, I'll simply ask, why would a right-wing news source make up something on Trump?
 
I backed off once I saw the source was the Daily Mail. In this thread, I'll simply ask, why would a right-wing news source make up something on Trump?
I don't know, but there are some right-wingers that desparately want Russia to win. I don't get it, but it's a fact.

Maybe they blame Ukraine for the Bidens cashing in. That could well be the case, but if you're Ukrainian and you're used to paying off politicians, why wouldn't you schmooze the VP's son? It's just the way things are done in a large part of the world.

I get that people are against our involvement in wars we don't intend to win, or think we can win in some moral way or fight it half-assed. But Putin is running the Nazi playbook, and I don't get why people have any sympathy for Russia. At all.

So, some sources will play to their base and make it seem like Trump is pro-Russian, when all he's said is he wants the killing to stop. I guess people think that means giving enough to Russia to stop fighting, but I've got news - Ukraine isn't going to accept the conditions of that 'leaked' proposal.

I do wish Ukraine would lower their draft age to 18. In a fight for your existance, why isn't there a universal draft?
 
I don't know, but there are some right-wingers that desparately want Russia to win. I don't get it, but it's a fact.

Maybe they blame Ukraine for the Bidens cashing in. That could well be the case, but if you're Ukrainian and you're used to paying off politicians, why wouldn't you schmooze the VP's son? It's just the way things are done in a large part of the world.

I get that people are against our involvement in wars we don't intend to win, or think we can win in some moral way or fight it half-assed. But Putin is running the Nazi playbook, and I don't get why people have any sympathy for Russia. At all.

So, some sources will play to their base and make it seem like Trump is pro-Russian, when all he's said is he wants the killing to stop. I guess people think that means giving enough to Russia to stop fighting, but I've got news - Ukraine isn't going to accept the conditions of that 'leaked' proposal.

I do wish Ukraine would lower their draft age to 18. In a fight for your existance, why isn't there a universal draft?
So we do agree that said deal would not be good for Ukraine. Unless NATO said, "we are out if you don't" I don't know why they would accept that. I know they are going to lose most/all of their territory Russia occupies, but to not in some way get guaranteed protection from the next bite of the apple would be silly. And frankly, NATO membership is about the only way that happens.

Yes, they should have a much more expanded draft. I see a report one of their explanations is a lack of equipment, they don't have enough to put more men into the field. That sounds a bit implausible, rifles we can supply them with. Uniforms, rounds, all that is far easier to get there than one Abrams. Heck, go down to 21 if nothing else. For infantry a 21 year old is much better than a 50 year old. So if you can't supply everyone, supply the 21 year old.
 
So we do agree that said deal would not be good for Ukraine. Unless NATO said, "we are out if you don't" I don't know why they would accept that. I know they are going to lose most/all of their territory Russia occupies, but to not in some way get guaranteed protection from the next bite of the apple would be silly. And frankly, NATO membership is about the only way that happens.

Yes, they should have a much more expanded draft. I see a report one of their explanations is a lack of equipment, they don't have enough to put more men into the field. That sounds a bit implausible, rifles we can supply them with. Uniforms, rounds, all that is far easier to get there than one Abrams. Heck, go down to 21 if nothing else. For infantry a 21 year old is much better than a 50 year old. So if you can't supply everyone, supply the 21 year old.
That deal would suck for Ukraine and there's no way they'd take it anyway.

But I don't think it's what Trump is proposing. I think he and Kellog are still evaluating.
 
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