I would hope that we get bipartisan support on whatever we end up doing but I am not optimistic.
Russia and Ukraine
- Thread starter kurt cloverdales
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anon_6hv78pr714xta
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What do we do if China and Russia get together and say: you take Taiwan, we are taking Ukraine?
If I were President, you are probably losing both. I would focus on Taiwan TBH and hope our NATO allies could pull weight in Europe. (Edit to add that I changed this from Ukraine to Europe. I would not directly engage Russia with NATO forces over Ukraine) Frankly, there is no situation where I would commit U.S. troops to the actual defense of Ukraine. I would give Kyiv all sorts of weapons to hopefully send as many dead Russians home as possible (hopefully destroying public support for the war in Russia) but no boots on ground (officially).
I would fight over Taiwan.
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anon_6hv78pr714xta
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👨🏽🏫 FWIW 2 I don't believe the whole "they're trying to get us into a war" mantra.
~There is absolutely NOTHING about this administration that involves planning. They just throw things at the wall to see what sticks. That's it.
~This is one of the most incompetent admins in US History. It is manned by imbeciles, who cannot speak (or even think!) in complete sentences.
~Their dreams of passing social programs have all backfired and failed. Their agenda is dead.
~No, if a war is about to begin in Europe (or Asia, or both) it is precisely because they have no plans..it is amateur hour and Xing and Putin know this. Ⓜ️
~There is absolutely NOTHING about this administration that involves planning. They just throw things at the wall to see what sticks. That's it.
~This is one of the most incompetent admins in US History. It is manned by imbeciles, who cannot speak (or even think!) in complete sentences.
~Their dreams of passing social programs have all backfired and failed. Their agenda is dead.
~No, if a war is about to begin in Europe (or Asia, or both) it is precisely because they have no plans..it is amateur hour and Xing and Putin know this. Ⓜ️
I don’t think we’ll be committing US or NATO trips to Ukraine unless this escalates into something bigger, which it totally could. This is in Russia’s backyard and as diminished as their empire is, they are still the big dog on their borderlands.
Even if it could or wanted to, NATO couldn’t really fight Russia in Ukraine w/o turning this into WW3 but Russia also cannot “take” Ukraine. The days of Soviet satellite states are over. Russia probably wants to do a larger version of what they did to Georgia, get in, f some sh*t up, get out, message sent. I’d say this is a real “the messenger is the mesaage” moment.
I think the US would fight over Taiwan because it would have a better chance of “winning” — and, more importantly, the strategic context. Ukraine flirting w the NATO/ US is a “nice to have” situation but continued naval dominance in Asia (and everywhere else) would be considered non-negotiable under any circumstances. I think there are scenarios where we’d shoot nukes in a conflict over Taiwan. Gulp.
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1. Chip production in Taiwan that is essential to several industries. You would want to at least destroy that production capability if China invaded.
2. Taiwan allows China the capability to push further out into the China/Phillipine/etc. Sea increasing their strike capabilities against neighbors.
3. Our image took a beating after Afghanistan. We still need to project power in that region if we would like to contain China. I see a new cold war developing with them. It would be extremely costly for us to attack each other, so they will be looking to exert power in other ways. A committed U.S. presence (read: we are willing to literally bleed) in the region helps convince Japan, South Korea, Australia, the Phillipines, Vietnam, India, etc. that we are a reliable bulwark against Chinese aggression in the region. If we are not, then it maybe becomes more in their interest to start siding with the Chinese at our expense.
I’d allow and encourage Japan to rearm. That would f*ck with China’s head big time.
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anon_6hv78pr714xta
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Japan does not want to. I haven't met too many Japanese but the ones I have are not at all interested in a large defense.
WW2 brought complete and total devastation to Japan. The country had a major change in it's psyche. They have no desire to take an offensive anywhere. To be purely defensive doesn't cost as much.
The math has changed too. Japan has no birthrate. The size of her population to China is far worse than 80 years ago. Even if Japan wanted to threaten China it would be impossible. China has so many more people and now a larger economy.
That is true , but still why would they if they can get away with it? Imagine if we had actually kept Japan as a territory? Tech at one point would have been a huge advantage for Japan , if they don't have our shadow looming though they are pretty impotent
Why wouldn't the West station troops inside Ukraine?
Wouldn't Ukraine consent?
BREAKING: Russia, Ukraine, France, and Germany to hold talks on eastern Ukraine, without US
Representatives from Russia, Ukraine, France, and Germany will reportedly hold "Normandy format" talks on eastern Ukraine in Paris this week.ADVERTISEME
Not at all surprising we are lead by idiots.
Because nobody in the West wants to get into a shooting war with Russia. The West wants to convince Russia to back off. They are not willing to put soldiers in the line of fire to make it happen.
Japan kinda has quietly been rearming for a few years, focusing on things like anti-sub warfare that ring defensive but compliment the US carrier fleets
Biden Weighs Deploying Thousands of Troops to Eastern Europe and Baltics
The president is also considering deploying warships and aircraft to NATO allies, in what would be a major shift from its restrained stance on Ukraine.
He looks like a fool.Biden Weighs Deploying Thousands of Troops to Eastern Europe and Baltics
The president is also considering deploying warships and aircraft to NATO allies, in what would be a major shift from its restrained stance on Ukraine.www.nytimes.com
BREAKING (AFP) — The EU is *not* following the US in withdrawing its diplomats' families from Ukraine, top European diplomat Josep Borrell says, adding there is no need to "dramatize" the situation while diplomatic talks with Russia continue
This signal alone just took the market 1000 points down. We really have had an increase of incompetence for 30 plus years.
Russians have always been afraid of outside influences, dating back to the early Tsars. And for good reason, from a territory standpoint.
Putin sees Eastern Europe as a buffer and that was the point of the Warsaw Pact. Russians still have a psychological fear of being invaded by the Nyemtsi - Germans.
But you're spot on that they don't want successful democracies next door.
Edit: and they've always had an inferiority complex when it comes to the West. Peter the Great's goal was to make Russia equal to Europe. They've never managed to pull it off, mainly because serfdom lasted much longer in Russian than in Western Europe.
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Tucker Carlson thinks we should support Russia rather than Ukraine:
It kind of begs the question why we would support any other country who's invading another with no provocation.
MSN
www.msn.com
It kind of begs the question why we would support any other country who's invading another with no provocation.
I would add that serfdom lasted in Russia because Russia’s territory just doesn’t have greats ports, marine or riverine, or good river transport. Wheat, to this day, sometimes rots before it makes it to market in Russia. Due to bad geography, they have to move everything by land at great cost and with more expensive infrastructure. This lends itself to centralization and is why Russia can’t be like the West. It’s not for lack of policy or really even effort, but it’s a feedback loop for sure.
Ironically, this constraint has made the USSR/ Russia a perfect counter to the US. Being land-based, they don’t rely solely on US Navy controlled water ways.
Nah, this is the Russia Effect. Countries further away from Russia talk shit and plan drastic action (the US) more than countries in Europe (France, UK) and way more than countries that are a quick jaunt for Russian tanks (Germany). Been going on for 80 years now
I know it’s fun to blame presidents but US foreign policy is MUCH bigger than any single president, and it takes more than a presidential term or two to change it. The playbook for what is happening in Ukraine was written long before we elected the last two dummies
He's completely ignoring the history of that region and how one land grab can lead to world wars.
When he says we have no national interest in that area, he's wrong, unless we're willing to live with despotism creeping back into that part of the world.
Surely he doesn't really believe that we should support Russia and is just trying to stir the pot?
Yes, you're exactly right. It's all about ratings. He's following the Bill O'Reilly model - say anything to be controversial.
I'm sure he could argue both sides.
You're seeing that in real time.
They both understand that the US is nearing civil war and how weakened our military forces are today.
Russia will turn over the records of the financial 'arrangements ' among Clinton, Kerry, and Biden Crime families with corrupt Ukrainian bureaucrats.
what about Pelosi? I don't think she's ever paid for a bottle of vodka
I think he means Ukranian's sons blood. I don't know anyone who thinks we should send out troops in.
Although who knows what Dementia Joe will do.
it's been rumored he would only send in troops who lean conservative in their politics, he thinks with that and covid he can really damage their base for 2024
If not your uncle how about just another one of the many right wing delusions about a deep state.
