Recruiting seems to be picking up with these visits recently

crazed_hoosier2

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I think tide is turning for IU, and they will get back to being a consistent winner. The IU staff is too good for it not to.
Let's hope so. But one thing we should all take from the Archie debacle is that you can't count chickens before they hatch. Most people were very hopeful about what he would do here -- and with reason. Recruiting seemed to pick up after the previous couple lackluster Crean years (before, of course, later seeing some big whiffs).

But, alas, it just never translated to an acceptable level of success on the floor.

I like what I've seen so far -- from the coaching hires to the roster moves. I like what I've been hearing about CMW's plans on both sides of the floor. Hopefully, this will bear fruit on the court.
 

Victorbmyboy

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Let's hope so. But one thing we should all take from the Archie debacle is that you can't count chickens before they hatch. Most people were very hopeful about what he would do here -- and with reason. Recruiting seemed to pick up after the previous couple lackluster Crean years (before, of course, later seeing some big whiffs).

But, alas, it just never translated to an acceptable level of success on the floor.

I like what I've seen so far -- from the coaching hires to the roster moves. I like what I've been hearing about CMW's plans on both sides of the floor. Hopefully, this will bear fruit on the court.
I was in the same realm of thought as you but if you look at the staff on paper it is elite. Like top 5 elite. It took a few pundits to convince me of that. I know woody is a good coach and I am really starting to believe in his process.
 
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Birnk403

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I was in the same realm of thought as you but if you look at the staff on paper it is elite. Like top 5 elite. It took a few pundits to convince me of that. I know woody is a good coach and I am really starting to believe in his process.
Calling it a top five / elite staff before they’ve conducted even one formal practice or coached a single game is premature, by miles and miles. I know it’s difficult for some to power down the hype machine, but the last two decades provide plenty of evidence that circumspection is advisable, if not prudent. There are likely more than a few bumps in the road ahead.
 
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Victorbmyboy

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Calling it a top five / elite staff before they’ve conducted even one formal practice or coached a single game is premature, by miles and miles. I know it’s difficult for some to power down the hype machine, but the last two decades provide plenty of evidence that circumspection is advisable, if not prudent. There are likely more than a few bumps in the road ahead.
Notice I said “on paper”. I’m still optimistic because Woody can coach. I hope I’m right and am pretty darned excited.
 

jsig

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Hopefully this regime will see different results. Optimism is high and this coaching staff plus Matta certainly blows away what they have had since Knight. Hopefully, that is not just the Crean and Archie factor. They almost had it right with Sampsung until ......
 

Victorbmyboy

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Calling it a top five / elite staff before they’ve conducted even one formal practice or coached a single game is premature, by miles and miles. I know it’s difficult for some to power down the hype machine, but the last two decades provide plenty of evidence that circumspection is advisable, if not prudent. There are likely more than a few bumps in the road ahead.
Who on this staff compares to Crean and Archies regimes? Neither had a Matta or the NBA credentials. Neither one coached as long as woody. This staff isn’t comparable to any of the ones since Knight. On paper at least.
 
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crazed_hoosier2

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Calling it a top five / elite staff before they’ve conducted even one formal practice or coached a single game is premature, by miles and miles. I know it’s difficult for some to power down the hype machine, but the last two decades provide plenty of evidence that circumspection is advisable, if not prudent. There are likely more than a few bumps in the road ahead.
I agree. And while, at some level, it doesn't really make any difference whether fans are overhyped or underhyped, it actually does in the sense of managing fan expectations. And, while we'd all say that expectations are that we're competing for B10 titles, NCs, etc., we have to recognize that this doesn't happen overnight -- particularly considering where MW is starting from.

I'd love to say that fan expectations don't matter. But they actually do matter. And my expectation is that we're heading in the right direction, we're better than last year, and we're laying groundwork to go to the next level in the next few years.
 

Birnk403

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Who on this staff compares to Crean and Archies regimes? Neither had a Matta or the NBA credentials. Neither one coached as long as woody. This staff isn’t comparable to any of the ones since Knight. On paper at least.
Which staff featured a coach who’s never spent a day on a college bench? The road to success usually has a few bumps, twists and turns. Hype is usually met by reality pretty quickly.
 
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Calling it a top five / elite staff before they’ve conducted even one formal practice or coached a single game is premature, by miles and miles. I know it’s difficult for some to power down the hype machine, but the last two decades provide plenty of evidence that circumspection is advisable, if not prudent. There are likely more than a few bumps in the road ahead.
I sooooo badly want to disagree with you...but cannot. Anyone who is a realist and who has lived through the past 30 yrs of IU ball should understand. I need to see at least half a season next fall /winter- especially those B1G road games- before I start running victory laps. And not just Ws and Ls (although those Ws are what we are after). I need to see a change in disposition. No more jerking around in the huddle while we're getting spanked at home by Northwestern. Take it seriously, or hit the portal.

It all looks great on paper and reads great on paper. But everyone thinks they're #1 over the summer. As I always have said...let's check back in come mid-Feb 2022. At that point, hype will be replaced by results. It didn't take CAM long to show us we were in trouble with him at the helm....just couldn't accept the fact we were already in trouble after the first game.
 
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I see Heide committed to the Boliers yesterday..
Solid class for them..But not elite...Course they're banking on what they already have..
I'm ready for a big splash commitment..To get the ball rolling for us...
Love to get Filipowski..He look's very multi dimensional...
.
 
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GeorgeStrait IU

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Who on this staff compares to Crean and Archies regimes? Neither had a Matta or the NBA credentials. Neither one coached as long as woody. This staff isn’t comparable to any of the ones since Knight. On paper at least.
Oh now.. Dont downsize the importance of Kerry Rupp and Thad Fitzpatrick vbg
 

GeorgeStrait IU

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I see Heide committed to the Boliers yesterday..
Solid class for them..But not elite...Course they're banking on what they already have..
I'm ready for a big splash commitment..To get the ball rolling for us...
Love to get Filipowski..He look's very multi dimensional...
.
Filipowski and the Georgia kid would be a very good start. Justin Taylor sounds interesting as well.
 

Birnk403

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I sooooo badly want to disagree with you...but cannot. Anyone who is a realist and who has lived through the past 30 yrs of IU ball should understand. I need to see at least half a season next fall /winter- especially those B1G road games- before I start running victory laps. And not just Ws and Ls (although those Ws are what we are after). I need to see a change in disposition. No more jerking around in the huddle while we're getting spanked at home by Northwestern. Take it seriously, or hit the portal.

It all looks great on paper and reads great on paper. But everyone thinks they're #1 over the summer. As I always have said...let's check back in come mid-Feb 2022. At that point, hype will be replaced by results. It didn't take CAM long to show us we were in trouble with him at the helm....just couldn't accept the fact we were already in trouble after the first game.
After going undefeated in April and May, it’s not surprising we haven’t lost in June, either. I think, July, August and September will result in similar superiority, too. Maybe even October.

I get the hype, and I get the lack of both short and long term memory and basketball understanding. But these things nearly always take some time, even with someone like Woodson, whom I loved as a player and, while I didn’t follow as closely, as an NBA coach. The staff looks good, but they're mostly new, as are several players. Most importantly, the culture of the program will be new to everyone, and it rarely takes hold instantaneously.

Hoping for the best, but expecting realistic results in the near term.
 

kkott

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I wouldn't be surprised to see a verbal or 2 within the next couple of weeks. I think tide is turning for IU, and they will get back to being a consistent winner. The IU staff is too good for it not to.
Wouldn't get expectations up for something like this unless you are aware of a specific situation. Generally campus visits begin over the summer and most recruits commit sometime over the summer/fall going in to their senior year so they know the staff/roster in place. In IU's case, if I were a recruits parent, I'd especially urge caution and wait to see this coming season get going or through and see if you start seeing results on par with expectations. Obviously the timeline is a little shorter for 2022 kids vs 2023, but I think most will want to wait and see how things are looking at IU, as there is no rush for them.
 
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After going undefeated in April and May, it’s not surprising we haven’t lost in June, either. I think, July, August and September will result in similar superiority, too. Maybe even October.

I get the hype, and I get the lack of both short and long term memory and basketball understanding. But these things nearly always take some time, even with someone like Woodson, whom I loved as a player and, while I didn’t follow as closely, as an NBA coach. The staff looks good, but they're mostly new, as are several players. Most importantly, the culture of the program will be new to everyone, and it rarely takes hold instantaneously.

Hoping for the best, but expecting realistic results in the near term.
yeah so far, everything seems to be trending in the right direction. It's just difficult to wash away 10+ yrs of mismanagement overnight. CMW (and staff, and team) has some pressure that CTC and even CAM did not- expectations of a 20+ win season and NCAA tourney birth, right out of the gate. Will all come down to how the players gel and how everyone accepts their roles and playing time. Hitting 3s and FTs wouldn't hurt either.
 

Birnk403

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yeah so far, everything seems to be trending in the right direction. It's just difficult to wash away 10+ yrs of mismanagement overnight. CMW (and staff, and team) has some pressure that CTC and even CAM did not- expectations of a 20+ win season and NCAA tourney birth, right out of the gate. Will all come down to how the players gel and how everyone accepts their roles and playing time. Hitting 3s and FTs wouldn't hurt either.
I think a .500 record and / or top half in the conference is a good, reasonable goal given all of the changes in the program. I’d throw in a win over Purdue, as well, though they’re going to be good and stay good for awhile. If all of that results in an NCAA tournament berth, great. Anything beyond that is gravy.
 
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Victorbmyboy

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I think a .500 record and / or top half in the conference is a good, reasonable goal given all of the changes in the program. I’d throw in a win over Purdue, as well, though they’re going to be good and stay good for awhile. If all of that results in an NCAA tournament berth, great. Anything beyond that is gravy.
I’m hoping for that as well. The key signal for me is the development of TJD. Hell even race. If those two can shoot at a decent rate it changes the whole dynamic of this team. Free throw shooting will be better as we have a revamped back court. Those two things will be an indicator for me.
 

Victorbmyboy

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I agree. And while, at some level, it doesn't really make any difference whether fans are overhyped or underhyped, it actually does in the sense of managing fan expectations. And, while we'd all say that expectations are that we're competing for B10 titles, NCs, etc., we have to recognize that this doesn't happen overnight -- particularly considering where MW is starting from.

I'd love to say that fan expectations don't matter. But they actually do matter. And my expectation is that we're heading in the right direction, we're better than last year, and we're laying groundwork to go to the next level in the next few years.
And you ain’t doing that without an elite type staff. In my eyes we are a completely different animal. This staff brings better things to the table. Did I mention I’m an optimist?
 

crazed_hoosier2

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And you ain’t doing that without an elite type staff. In my eyes we are a completely different animal. This staff brings better things to the table. Did I mention I’m an optimist?
I fully agree. The staff, both including and beyond the HC, is absolutely critical. That’s why Calipari paid big bucks to get those two coaches from Illinois. He knows how important it is in today’s game.

And I agree that our staff is pretty jacked.

But we still have to go out and get it done on the floor. And it almost always takes some time to turn these ships.
 
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Victorbmyboy

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I fully agree. The staff, both including and beyond the HC, is absolutely critical. That’s why Calipari paid big bucks to get those two coaches from Illinois. He knows how important it is in today’s game.

And I agree that our staff is pretty jacked.

But we still have to go out and get it done on the floor. And it almost always takes some time to turn these ships.
Cal has whiffed on his staff a couple of times.
 

rikki-tikka-tava

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I fully agree. The staff, both including and beyond the HC, is absolutely critical. That’s why Calipari paid big bucks to get those two coaches from Illinois. He knows how important it is in today’s game.

And I agree that our staff is pretty jacked.

But we still have to go out and get it done on the floor. And it almost always takes some time to turn these ships.
Cal didn't pay anyone per se, but little doubt those holding the pursestrings in Lexington were ready to pony up to avoid another season like the one they just had.
 

crazed_hoosier2

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Cal didn't pay anyone per se, but little doubt those holding the pursestrings in Lexington were ready to pony up to avoid another season like the one they just had.
OK, you get my point. I think it was reported that Antigua would be paid around $850K, increasing to $900K. And Coleman would be paid $450K. And you're right, they almost certainly went and did this in response to last season's debacle. That's what top programs should do -- move to fix a problem quickly. Whether or not this move will fix it remains to be seen.

But my point, anyway, was simply that the quality of the supporting staff is very, very important -- almost certainly more than it used to be. And I'm happy with the staff that Dolson, Woodson, and Matta have amassed (very much including Woodson and Matta themselves).
 
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Birnk403

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I’m hoping for that as well. The key signal for me is the development of TJD. Hell even race. If those two can shoot at a decent rate it changes the whole dynamic of this team. Free throw shooting will be better as we have a revamped back court. Those two things will be an indicator for me.
I think RT might show flashes of perimeter competency, but I think TJD will struggle to be effective away from the basket. I’m not saying he can’t improve, but that hill he has to climb is steep and long, and I doubt he’s going to make much measurable headway. He’s just not comfortable on that part of the floor.
 

T.M.P.

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Wouldn't get expectations up for something like this unless you are aware of a specific situation. Generally campus visits begin over the summer and most recruits commit sometime over the summer/fall going in to their senior year so they know the staff/roster in place. In IU's case, if I were a recruits parent, I'd especially urge caution and wait to see this coming season get going or through and see if you start seeing results on par with expectations. Obviously the timeline is a little shorter for 2022 kids vs 2023, but I think most will want to wait and see how things are looking at IU, as there is no rush for them.
Bagmen don't generally pay out until after July camps, it may be delayed this year due to covid changing schedule but after July is when things start happening.
 
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Courtsensetwo

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yeah so far, everything seems to be trending in the right direction. It's just difficult to wash away 10+ yrs of mismanagement overnight. CMW (and staff, and team) has some pressure that CTC and even CAM did not- expectations of a 20+ win season and NCAA tourney birth, right out of the gate. Will all come down to how the players gel and how everyone accepts their roles and playing time. Hitting 3s and FTs wouldn't hurt either.
I think that AM had a fair amount of pressure on him after the Crean debacle, he just didn't respond to it very well. Mike and team will as well but thusfar the crowd that follows the team closely and attends games have been pretty reasonable about expectations.

This coaching combo is unique and will be fascinating to watch work with this team, recruit and sew the seeds of a winning culture and a meaningful identity. It won't be instantanious by any stretch as the BIG is solid right now and these kids have an entirely new system to master. I like the fact that they are going away together even though it is only the Bahamas.

I do believe the team will be better this year, if for no other reason, the players are better than last but how much is yet to be seen. As I have said since the day Mike was hired...there will be curves and bumps along the way
 

Fpeaugh2

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I’m just glad our fans are no longer clamoring for 3 star recruits in the sub 100 range. It’s nice to want 5 star recruits again. For years I had to read about how the 4 year kid ranked 138 was a better catch than the 5 star future pro. Those days are over and hopefully never return.
 

rikki-tikka-tava

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I’m just glad our fans are no longer clamoring for 3 star recruits in the sub 100 range. It’s nice to want 5 star recruits again. For years I had to read about how the 4 year kid ranked 138 was a better catch than the 5 star future pro. Those days are over and hopefully never return.
Your historical acumen being what it is, fully expect you to reference the Chinese bombing of Pearl Harbor and the French moon landing.
 

mk23

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OK, you get my point. I think it was reported that Antigua would be paid around $850K, increasing to $900K. And Coleman would be paid $450K. And you're right, they almost certainly went and did this in response to last season's debacle. That's what top programs should do -- move to fix a problem quickly. Whether or not this move will fix it remains to be seen.

But my point, anyway, was simply that the quality of the supporting staff is very, very important -- almost certainly more than it used to be. And I'm happy with the staff that Dolson, Woodson, and Matta have amassed (very much including Woodson and Matta themselves).
Seems to me Cal needs nba players to win. As long as he’s the HC, those highly paid assistants need to recruit their arses off by any means necessary.
 

Victorbmyboy

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I’m just glad our fans are no longer clamoring for 3 star recruits in the sub 100 range. It’s nice to want 5 star recruits again. For years I had to read about how the 4 year kid ranked 138 was a better catch than the 5 star future pro. Those days are over and hopefully never return.
Another stellar take and the trollest post evaaaaahhh
 

crazed_hoosier2

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Seems to me Cal needs nba players to win. As long as he’s the HC, those highly paid assistants need to recruit their arses off by any means necessary.
Maybe. But, whatever the case, he does have a .785 winning percentage at UK to go along with a slew of post-season success -- even considering the 9-16 debacle this past season.

But my point is less about his roster than his staff. UK (with Calipari's full endorsement, I'm sure) has ponied up some pretty big bucks for the staff. And I'd say that's an indication of how important he, and they, think staff is.
 

mk23

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Maybe. But, whatever the case, he does have a .785 winning percentage at UK to go along with a slew of post-season success -- even considering the 9-16 debacle this past season.

But my point is less about his roster than his staff. UK (with Calipari's full endorsement, I'm sure) has ponied up some pretty big bucks for the staff. And I'd say that's an indication of how important he, and they, think staff is.
Agree completely. But the only reason he’s opening the vault for those guys is to build the roster. Doubt he’s leaning too heavily on them for basketball acumen.
 

crazed_hoosier2

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Agree completely. But the only reason he’s opening the vault for those guys is to build the roster. Doubt he’s leaning too heavily on them for basketball acumen.
And, if so, there's nothing wrong with that. Whatever gets the job done.
 
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Courtsensetwo

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I’m just glad our fans are no longer clamoring for 3 star recruits in the sub 100 range. It’s nice to want 5 star recruits again. For years I had to read about how the 4 year kid ranked 138 was a better catch than the 5 star future pro. Those days are over and hopefully never return.
Huh?

You drinking pool water again?
 
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