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Proximate Cause

CO. Hoosier

Hall of Famer
Aug 29, 2001
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A phrase that intimidating torts professors use to strike struck fear in the hearts of many first year law law students.

Proximate cause describes the so-called “legal” cause connecting a negligent act and the damage suffered by a third party. Proximate cause requires an examination of foreeabilty. For example, everyone knows an adult handing loaded pistol to a toddler is negligent. Harm flowing from that act is easily assigned to the adult, right? Not so fast. What if the toddler drops the gun and grandma, trying to pick up the gun, slips and falls from a banana, the toddler also dropped, and breaks her hip? Is the adult responsible for the broken hip?

A judge seems to have missed the important classes on proximate cause.

In real life gun owners have general immunity for wrongful third party use of a gun. One exception to immunity occurs when harm is caused because the gun maker/seller violated state law and harm is caused by that breach. Consumer protection false advertising claims have become a fruitful area of litigating this exception.

In a lawsuit against Smith and Wesson, victims of a public shooting claimed S & W was responsible because it advertised shooting a gun and the alleged shooter played shooting video games. S & W moved to dismiss based federal immunity. The court ruled:

“Factual causation,” the court ruled, was established by “numerous allegations of unlawful marketing techniques and statutory authority that Smith and Wesson marketing and advertisements violated.” “Legal cause” sufficed that “Smith and Wesson’s unlawful conduct created a condition that foreseeably led to the shooter’s criminal act.”
Plaintiff alleged S & W advertising “intentionally promote militaristic misuse of firearms, especially among young people.”* If this opinion holds up based upon these facts, the federal immunity law will become useless. Any gun advertising could be seen by a potential killer. I don’t like federal immunity any more than the next guy. But this opinion must not stand. The judge destroyed the whole concept of proximate cause.

*This allegation must be taken as true for purposes of a motion to dismiss. Presumably plaintiff has some “expert” to so testify.

 
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A phrase that intimidating torts professors use to strike struck fear in the hearts of many first year law law students.

Proximate cause describes the so-called “legal” cause connecting a negligent act and the damage suffered by a third party. Proximate cause requires an examination of foreeabilty. For example, everyone knows an adult handing loaded pistol to a toddler is negligent. Harm flowing from that act is easily assigned to the adult, right? Not so fast. What if the toddler drops the gun and grandma, trying to pick up the gun, slips and falls from a banana, the toddler also dropped, and breaks her hip? Is the adult responsible for the broken hip?

A judge seems to have missed the important classes on proximate cause.

In real life gun owners have general immunity for wrongful third party use of a gun. One exception to immunity occurs when harm is caused because the gun maker/seller violated state law and harm is caused by that breach. Consumer protection false advertising claims have become a fruitful area of litigating this exception.

In a lawsuit against Smith and Wesson, victims of a public shooting claimed S & W was responsible because it advertised shooting a gun and the alleged shooter played shooting video games. S & W moved to dismiss based federal immunity. The court ruled:

“Factual causation,” the court ruled, was established by “numerous allegations of unlawful marketing techniques and statutory authority that Smith and Wesson marketing and advertisements violated.” “Legal cause” sufficed that “Smith and Wesson’s unlawful conduct created a condition that foreseeably led to the shooter’s criminal act.”
Plaintiff alleged S & W advertising “intentionally promote militaristic misuse of firearms, especially among young people.”* If this opinion holds up based upon these facts, the federal immunity law will become useless. Any gun advertising could be seen by a potential killer. I don’t like federal immunity any more than the next guy. But this opinion must not stand. The judge destroyed the whole concept of proximate cause.

*This allegation must be taken as true for purposes of a motion to dismiss. Presumably plaintiff has some “expert” to so testify.

CLASS IS IN SESSION COH UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF LAW
TORTS
TORTS CHAIR CO. HOOSIER
1:00

this is just the progeny of tobacco and more recently opioids. it's being hammered over marketing. s&w alludes to experiencing real life first person shooting. it's stupid marketing no difft than tobacco did and got whacked both with individual hold outs and the master settlement. if you want to see a who is who of tort law read the sig pages of some of those settlements from the southern states. mercy. the big big dogs

fed immunity law won't be useless. they'll revise their marketing practices. liability will only continue to hold for defective products and advertising f ups. marketing tactics creating a foreseeable risk blah blah blah
 
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marketing tactics creating a foreseeable risk blah blah blah
Cigarettes are one thing. Guns are a different thing. One cannot safely smoke a cigarette. One can safely fire a gun. I don’t think the analogy holds.
 
Cigarettes are one thing. Guns are a different thing. One cannot safely smoke a cigarette. One can safely fire a gun. I don’t think the analogy holds.
Well out of my element here, but would it be a more effective comparison when talking about second-hand smoke affecting others? At least with regards to negligence.
 
One cannot safely smoke a cigarette
that's not the theory traveled under. coh can go buy a gun today and shoot someone tomorrow and s&w won't be liable. the facts obviously matter but what's germane again is hte marketing and that holds true from guns to smokes to opioids. that's where liability is attaching. not the product itself. again no different than smokes. revise their marketing and they won't be liable. won't be foreseeable etc
 
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that's not the theory traveled under. coh can go buy a gun today and shoot someone tomorrow and s&w won't be liable. the facts obviously matter but what's germane again is hte marketing and that holds true from guns to smokes to opioids. that's where liability is attaching. not the product itself. again no different than smokes. revise their marketing and they won't be liable
Agreed. Advertising that promotes a legal product that cannot ever be safely used is different from advertising a legal product that can be safely used.
 
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Wtf is S&W advertising their guns? As if gun buyers need any encouragement to buy.

Speaking of which, the only ads that make any sense probably are those encouraging people to buy their gun while the second amendment still stands. No liability there either.
 
Cigarettes are one thing. Guns are a different thing. One cannot safely smoke a cigarette. One can safely fire a gun. I don’t think the analogy holds.
One can own a gun unsafely. Furthermore, Clinton didn’t inhale. That’s smoking safely.
 
He wants us to get to the conclusion by working our way through what he posts
Proximate cause is clearly a problematic issue. Especially when it comes to medical issues. Show me a properly conducted experiment proving the cause of any disease, especially, for example, tobacco smoking causing cancer. It’s basically impossible to prove it because it’s impossible to remove all other potential causes from the experiment. And that’s assuming it’s not psychosomatic which is an unfounded assumption.
 
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