Positive news on the backend of the ‘23 defense

[TomEric4756]

Noah changes his number to 0 and talks up the New Co DC, DB talent and WR room. New DB wrinkles are needed, as last year seemed sub par.

https://iuhoosiers.com/news/2023/6/20/football-whats-in-a-number-pierre-hitting-his-stride

Meanwhile PFF thinks Rudolph was a LB portal find. May IU have found a diamond in the rough. LB play dropped when Cam was hurt last year.

https://www.si.com/college/indiana/...ong-big-ten-linebackers-by-pro-football-focus

We need to improve the DL play to make it all work.

 

[vesuvius13]

If the DL lives up to their potential, IU's defense will be good. There is talent behind the DL and if the DL can stop the run and pressure the QB it lets the LBs and DBs pin their ears back to go and get the ball.

 

[GR8IUFAN]

If the DL lives up to their potential, IU's defense will be good. There is talent behind the DL and if the DL can stop the run and pressure the QB it lets the LBs and DBs pin their ears back to go and get the ball.

The defensive play is so dependent on the offensive side of the ball. The defense CAN'T be on the field as much as they were last year. Everyone complained about the defense but there were way to many 3 and outs.

 

[vesuvius13]

The defensive play is so dependent on the offensive side of the ball. The defense CAN'T be on the field as much as they were last year. Everyone complained about the defense but there were way to many 3 and outs.

Yes a ball control offense really helps a defense, I am just afraid coach Bell doesn't care about defense and will still run plays very fast. If he slows down the offense some it will really help the defense especially with a good running play and high completion rates.

 

[Euro]

Yes a ball control offense really helps a defense, I am just afraid coach Bell doesn't care about defense and will still run plays very fast. If he slows down the offense some it will really help the defense especially with a good running play and high completion rates.

Go fast is ultimately the head coaches call dont ya think?

 

[Jackskip23]

Go fast is ultimately the head coaches call dont ya think?

It is. It’s exactly why Coach Allen hired Coach Bell. He wanted that offensive pace. He just hasn’t been able to assemble the players to run it well.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

Yes a ball control offense really helps a defense, I am just afraid coach Bell doesn't care about defense and will still run plays very fast. If he slows down the offense some it will really help the defense especially with a good running play and high completion rates.

And I suspect that we are still in need of ball control and moderate pace. We have seen the results of out pacing our capabilities far too often.

 

[vesuvius13]

Go fast is ultimately the head coaches call dont ya think?

You would think but with coach Allen I am not sure.

 

[IUCX9]

You would think but with coach Allen I am not sure.

Are you saying CTA let's his OC make all the decisions with regards to the offense? Even at a detriment to his defense?

I know he has called the OC the "Head Coach of the Offense" but I would like to have the HC manage the team as a whole instead of letting each phase operate separately.

 

[Jackskip23]

Are you saying CTA let's his OC make all the decisions with regards to the offense? Even at a detriment to his defense?

I know he has called the OC the "Head Coach of the Offense" but I would like to have the HC manage the team as a whole instead of letting each phase operate separately.

We sit roughly 25 rows behind / above the bench and I can tell you Coach Allen has little in game involvement with the O, while being extensively involved with the defense. That’s been the case during his entire tenure, regardless of who the offensive coaches were.

 

[vesuvius13]

Are you saying CTA let's his OC make all the decisions with regards to the offense? Even at a detriment to his defense?

I know he has called the OC the "Head Coach of the Offense" but I would like to have the HC manage the team as a whole instead of letting each phase operate separately.

I do know coach Allen likes to take a hands off approach to offense. We saw that last season despite the number of three and outs hurting the defense, coach Allen didn't seem to dictate that the offense slow down some so the defense got a bit of a breather.

When coach Littrel was here with coach Wilson they ran super fast offense the difference was they scored TDs as defenses weren't ready for the fast play. Defenses have gotten used to fast play now and prepare for it.

I don't think coach Allen should be so hands off the offense but calling defenses last season didn't help.

 

[td75]

We sitting roughly 25 rows behind / above the bench and I can tell you Coach Allen has little in game involvement with the O, while being extensively involved with the defense. That’s been the case during his entire tenure, regardless of who the offensive coaches were.

Then Allen needs to have an UPPER SHELF OC, not a middle of the road guy.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

Are you saying CTA let's his OC make all the decisions with regards to the offense? Even at a detriment to his defense?

I know he has called the OC the "Head Coach of the Offense" but I would like to have the HC manage the team as a whole instead of letting each phase operate separately.

I am sure TA has plenty of collaboration through the week and in meetings but in game it appears he is pretty hands off as I watch him.

That said, we do not know what the conversations are on the head set.

 

[ESalum86]

Yes a ball control offense really helps a defense, I am just afraid coach Bell doesn't care about defense and will still run plays very fast. If he slows down the offense some it will really help the defense especially with a good running play and high completion rates.

When Kalen DeBoer was OC he had the offense rush back to scrimmage and line up, then see how the D reacts. He often didn't snap the ball until 10 seconds or less remained on the play clock yet the D couldn't sub and we could shift or go in motion depending on alignments. Made it to our first ever January bowl game on Florida. I'd call that successful and worthy of emulating.

 

[vesuvius13]

Posters have said I am too tough on Bell but once he commented that he looked at the opponents' defense and how tired they were, like that was the goal. He didn't talk about three and outs and how bad they were for the defenses or even think about playing another QB once it was clear how bad Bazelak was with the OL we had.

Bell needs to show much better as an OC this year if IU is going to do better since the RBs room is loaded, coach Bostad has the OL, and our receivers are talented but unproven in most cases. This is the year to see what coach Bell can do in the B1G.

 

[It Will Do]

I understand that we need every advantage we can get, but the offense last year was a mess. As a fan I would hope the HC would require some in game adjustments to help offset the performance we witnessed.

 

[Walt542]

I understand that we need every advantage we can get, but the offense last year was a mess. As a fan I would hope the HC would require some in game adjustments to help offset the performance we witnessed.

What do you do as an OC when your QB who looks great in practice gets too hyped up and overthrows his receivers just often enough to break up drives? Well, we all agree he should have benched Baze much sooner but how can you blame the guy for sticking with the kid when we don’t know anything about what went on behind the scenes.

On the other hand he stuck with Bazelak and the Aurburn RB so long that one had to wonder if Bell made some promises to them that he later regretted. If you make playing or starting promises and then have to break them because the player is not preforming does that give you a recruiting black eye? I don’t know anything but just speculating on what I saw.

 

[It Will Do]

What do you do as an OC when your QB who looks great in practice gets too hyped up and overthrows his receivers just often enough to break up drives? Well, we all agree he should have benched Baze much sooner but how can you blame the guy for sticking with the kid when we don’t know anything about what went on behind the scenes.

On the other hand he stuck with Bazelak and the Aurburn RB so long that one had to wonder if Bell made some promises to them that he later regretted. If you make playing or starting promises and then have to break them because the player is not preforming does that give you a recruiting black eye? I don’t know anything but just speculating on what I saw.

Here is to hoping for better performance in 2023.

 

[Big Red Crimson Buffalo]

I am sure TA has plenty of collaboration through the week and in meetings but in game it appears he is pretty hands off as I watch him.

That said, we do not know what the conversations are on the head set.

In other words: nothing more than a coordinator masquerading as a head coach. That won’t cut it at a place like IU.

 

[Big Red Crimson Buffalo]

Posters have said I am too tough on Bell but once he commented that he looked at the opponents' defense and how tired they were, like that was the goal. He didn't talk about three and outs and how bad they were for the defenses or even think about playing another QB once it was clear how bad Bazelak was with the OL we had.

Bell needs to show much better as an OC this year if IU is going to do better since the RBs room is loaded, coach Bostad has the OL, and our receivers are talented but unproven in most cases. This is the year to see what coach Bell can do in the B1G.

Coach Bostad may not be the answer to our woes. He coached at Wisconsin and had a lot more to work with in terms of linemen from the upper north.
Our own interim OL coach, Rod Carey, said he wasn’t a “miracle worker.” Which meant that even he knew our OL talent was not any good. I fear you’re trying to compare apples and oranges and hoping that the juice-maker can make apple juice out of oranges.

 

[vesuvius13]

Coach Bostad may not be the answer to our woes. He coached at Wisconsin and had a lot more to work with in terms of linemen from the upper north.
Our own interim OL coach, Rod Carey, said he wasn’t a “miracle worker.” Which meant that even he knew our OL talent was not any good. I fear you’re trying to compare apples and oranges and hoping that the juice-maker can make apple juice out of oranges.

I think you misread what coach Carey was saying, it wasn't about the talent but that it would take more than one week to improve the OL and he was right, but he did show what can be done. Coach Bostad is the answer to the OL problems for those of us not so negative.

 

[Big Red Crimson Buffalo]

I think you misread what coach Carey was saying, it wasn't about the talent but that it would take more than one week to improve the OL and he was right, but he did show what can be done. Coach Bostad is the answer to the OL problems for those of us not so negative.

I get that you are super-hyped about Bostad. You’ve never wavered in being very, very confident that he is going to transform a unit that has not been good since around 2015-2016. I do hope you are right because the offense is completely dependent on his unit. The buck stops with him, If they stink this season, I look forward to your analysis of where he could have improved.

 

[TomEric4756]

We have a number of coaches (DL & LB … WR & OC & RB) in their 2nd season together —
they should know how to work as a team now.
Williams clearly showed Bell does better with dual threat QB.

 

[Hoosier Clarion]

I get that you are super-hyped about Bostad. You’ve never wavered in being very, very confident that he is going to transform a unit that has not been good since around 2015-2016. I do hope you are right because the offense is completely dependent on his unit. The buck stops with him, If they stink this season, I look forward to your analysis of where he could have improved.

I saw more energy and effort from the OL after Hiller's ejection to feel positive that any good OL coach can make a difference. Maybe not enough for 6-6 but with the OL headed in the right direction by strong teacher who'll make each player accountable in practice and game environments is an absolute successful programs build. Better talent each year grows the W column. High on BB in the futures market. Damn sure was a loss with Hiller.

 

[82hoosier]

We sit roughly 25 rows behind / above the bench and I can tell you Coach Allen has little in game involvement with the O, while being extensively involved with the defense. That’s been the case during his entire tenure, regardless of who the offensive coaches were.

I think Tom Allen's biggest decision on offense is when to punt the ball. Plus it's awfully hard for somebody to learn the offensive side of the ball when they're currently coaching the defensive side during the game.

If I recall correctly coach Allen was second-guessing Bell's decision to rush the ball 26 times in the victory over the illini. He sure sounded like a spectator when he was making that observation.

 

[TomEric4756]

No returning DL starters and only #44 returns in the box.
Coaches Randolph, Teagarden and Wilt need to do a bang up job.
Let’s hope Bostad’s OL improvements also improve defense reps in the box too.

 

[indy1203]

I think you misread what coach Carey was saying, it wasn't about the talent but that it would take more than one week to improve the OL and he was right, but he did show what can be done. Coach Bostad is the answer to the OL problems for those of us not so negative.

Bostad has proven he knows how to coach the OL, whether he has
the horses to pull it off is the question.

 

[Jackskip23]

I think Tom Allen's biggest decision on offense is when to punt the ball. Plus it's awfully hard for somebody to learn the offensive side of the ball when they're currently coaching the defensive side during the game.

If I recall correctly coach Allen was second-guessing Bell's decision to rush the ball 26 times in the victory over the illini. He sure sounded like a spectator when he was making that observation.

Those 26 rushes barely netted us 30 yards. We had no choice but to throw often in that game, as Illinois really shut us down. It’s why some of us couldn’t understand why they went so soft on our final drive, other than they didn’t think CB could stack plays and get a score.

 

[E.Z.Rider]

It's called the prevent defense, I hate it b/c it seems to prevent winning, like it did for Ill.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

It's called the prevent defense, I hate it b/c it seems to prevent winning, like it did for Ill.

I have always despised the prevent defense mindset, particularly in Basketball.

To CB and the staff’s credit they strung the plays together at the opportune time.

 

[Hoosier Clarion]

No returning DL starters and only #44 returns in the box.
Coaches Randolph, Teagarden and Wilt need to do a bang up job.
Let’s hope Bostad’s OL improvements also improve defense reps in the box too.

Maybe based on the results the DL produced we shouldn't lament to strongly about none of them returning. Until they disappoint I like the possibilities the portal additions bring. But agree the level of success starts from last seasons low point.

 

[Tegray1]

Maybe based on the results the DL produced we shouldn't lament to strongly about none of them returning. Until they disappoint I like the possibilities the portal additions bring. But agree the level of success starts from last seasons low point.

I agree. The DL production was terrible last year. Look at the yardage we gave up in some games like Western Kent and MSU two games we won barely.

 

[vesuvius13]

I agree. The DL production was terrible last year. Look at the yardage we gave up in some games like Western Kent and MSU two games we won barely.

Part of the terrible DL was things coach Allen had them doing and I hope Coach G changes the approach for DL to allow them to be more successful.

 

[Jackskip23]

Part of the terrible DL was things coach Allen had them doing and I hope Coach G changes the approach for DL to allow them to be more successful.

What things did you see Coach Allen doing that made their play terrible?

 

[midwolfe]

It's called the prevent defense, I hate it b/c it seems to prevent winning, like it did for Ill.

Yup! Should only be called as a last 10-20 seconds of the half

 

[vesuvius13]

What things did you see Coach Allen doing that made their play terrible?

sliding along the line. I want the DL to attack the offense not slide along the line. IU has added a position that is hard to fill. IU has a 42 defense with 5 DBs and the coach that developed the 4-2-5 sent his DL attacking the defense not protecting the LBs. I hope Coach G overrides coach Allen and runs the same thing the original 4-2-5 did we have the DL to do that.

 

[Jackskip23]

sliding along the line. I want the DL to attack the offense not slide along the line. IU has added a position that is hard to fill. IU has a 42 defense with 5 DBs and the coach that developed the 4-2-5 sent his DL attacking the defense not protecting the LBs.

Why do you think it didnt work last year when it has for him in previous seasons?

 

[vesuvius13]

Why do you think it didnt work last year when it has for him in previous seasons?

It opened up the defense in other years too, when the offense guesses right the DL is caved down with little support to stop the play. Teams are figuring out coach's defense which is why it didn't work so well last year but you are missing how it hurt the defense in the past. We now have a new position the past couple of years and the defenses have been worse.

 

[DANC]

What do you do as an OC when your QB who looks great in practice gets too hyped up and overthrows his receivers just often enough to break up drives? Well, we all agree he should have benched Baze much sooner but how can you blame the guy for sticking with the kid when we don’t know anything about what went on behind the scenes.

On the other hand he stuck with Bazelak and the Aurburn RB so long that one had to wonder if Bell made some promises to them that he later regretted. If you make playing or starting promises and then have to break them because the player is not preforming does that give you a recruiting black eye? I don’t know anything but just speculating on what I saw.

I think that's what bothers most people - not benching or reducing playing time for players who clearly aren't getting it done or when others are outperforming them on the field.

 

[Jackskip23]

It opened up the defense in other years too, when the offense guesses right the DL is caved down with little support to stop the play. Teams are figuring out coach's defense which is why it didn't work so well last year but you are missing how it hurt the defense in the past. We now have a new position the past couple of years and the defenses have been worse.

We shift at the line based on O line and personnel sets. This is how how the overwhelming majority of D coordinators run their D lines.