Placing Responsibility of Program Success at The Correct Feet

[gulcherboy]

I suppose I have never, in my own mind, put things on a timeline. We're not playing games 20 years, or 10 years, or seven years in the future; we are preparing for the upcoming season.
So I think CTA is doing a good job of getting this team ready? Well, I believe the proof of the pudding is in the eating and the proof of a football team is putting it on the field against competition, so we will know the answer this fall. But, from what I can see, yeah! I think he's doing a good job of preparing this team.
Now, do I have specific goals for this team for the upcoming season? Well, no, I guess I don't. But, I would like to see fundamentally sound execution against every team. I would like to see this team to be at least competitive in every single game on their schedule. I would like to see six-to-eight wins, including a bowl trip that ends with a Hoosier victory.
If those are goals, so be it.

 

[ORG]

Fred’s results are terrible to anyone looking at his record objectively. Football and basketball are embarrassments and the butt of jokes. It is unacceptable for Purdue to be so much better.

The Lakers are a franchise with a proud history but terrible management recently leading to an extended postseason drought. Their fans are fed up.

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IU fans need to do the same.

I can see why you are upset: you are only looking at 2 sports.

I agree that "financially" those are probably the 2 most important sports and they finance almost the entire athletic program but there are still 19 other sports that he has to manage.

I a not as negative on football as you are. I believe that Coach is making steady progress with the football program. He has raised the level of recruiting and I am hoping he matches it this year.

 

[IUgradman]

I am not upset with Allen or Archie. They have to deal with administrative and financial hurdles coaches at other schools don’t encounter. I feel bad for them, actually. It is hard to evaluate either of them given the constraints they face.

 

[UncleMark]

The Lakers are a franchise with a proud history but terrible management recently leading to an extended postseason drought. Their fans are fed up.

Yeah, and look what throwing out a bunch of money looking for the quick fix did for them.

 

[Hoosier_Hack]

Every public figure puts a positive spin on things. No one will ever come out and say "we don't care about basketball" or football or hockey so pointing toward some public words as proof of a commitment is pointless.

I just reread your post and I think you hit on something here. “No one will ever come out and say we don’t care about basketball or football “..... I think the lack of words speak volumes in this sense. Now, I’m not suggesting that FG doesn’t care about IUFB. I think he does. But I do believe that somewhere in the structure of the University there is a heavy hand laid on the IUFB budget.

You have a basketball team of 12 guys with a bigger recruiting budget than a team of 60 guys. At least that was the case a few years ago. I just think we are being willingly delusional to think we have a commitment that is above average from the administration....whoever is in charge of the hand because we know it isn’t the coaching staff it is above their pay grade.....

Just my opinion. I’d like to be proven wrong. I haven’t seen any fire of any kind from the University over the past 30 plus years about the progress of the football program. It’s just odd. But I am in the Louisville area and accustom to pride being taken in the main sports. Before some of you start, save the cheap and easy shots here. Be honest with yourself and acknowledge it is odd to say the least.

 

[Daydreamer]

I just reread your post and I think you hit on something here. “No one will ever come out and say we don’t care about basketball or football “..... I think the lack of words speak volumes in this sense. Now, I’m not suggesting that FG doesn’t care about IUFB. I think he does. But I do believe that somewhere in the structure of the University there is a heavy hand laid on the IUFB budget.

You have a basketball team of 12 guys with a bigger recruiting budget than a team of 60 guys. At least that was the case a few years ago. I just think we are being willingly delusional to think we have a commitment that is above average from the administration....whoever is in charge of the hand because we know it isn’t the coaching staff it is above their pay grade.....

Just my opinion. I’d like to be proven wrong. I haven’t seen any fire of any kind from the University over the past 30 plus years about the progress of the football program. It’s just odd. But I am in the Louisville area and accustom to pride being taken in the main sports. Before some of you start, save the cheap and easy shots here. Be honest with yourself and acknowledge it is odd to say the least.

Basketball doesn’t have a larger recruiting budget than football and never has except for maybe one anomalous year when Crean spent a fairly huge number. There isn’t any silence about football or robbing from football. It may seem that way to the select group of fans who actually care about football as a primary sport (and that group includes me) and want it to be made the top priority but it just isn’t the case. Football spending on facilities, coaches, and recruiting has increased substantially in recent years and increased faster than basketball. Glass has said and done plenty to show that football success is a priority. All anyone has to do to confirm this is look. “Not as much as I want” is not the same as “not at all” or “not enough”. Basketball is still the highest profile sport at IU but that is because that’s what most IU fans care about, not because the University deliberately suppresses football.

 

[Hoosier_Hack]

Basketball doesn’t have a larger recruiting budget than football and never has except for maybe one anomalous year when Crean spent a fairly huge number. There isn’t any silence about football or robbing from football. It may seem that way to the select group of fans who actually care about football as a primary sport (and that group includes me) and want it to be made the top priority but it just isn’t the case. Football spending on facilities, coaches, and recruiting has increased substantially in recent years and increased faster than basketball. Glass has said and done plenty to show that football success is a priority. All anyone has to do to confirm this is look. “Not as much as I want” is not the same as “not at all” or “not enough”. Basketball is still the highest profile sport at IU but that is because that’s what most IU fans care about, not because the University deliberately suppresses football.

I don’t have any issue with your take. I think it probably is somewhere in between or a combination of both. It was during the Crean years that I had looked at the recruiting budget ...

 

[Al Bino]

I am not upset with Allen or Archie. They have to deal with administrative and financial hurdles coaches at other schools don’t encounter. I feel bad for them, actually. It is hard to evaluate either of them given the constraints they face.

Please list the "administrative and financial hurdles" that are suffered by coaches at IU. Please be specific. AND I know that one of them for you is a shared weight room.

Also, please provide links to substantiate your claims.

TIA

 

[td75]

It is PATHETIC that the basketball recruiting budget is even in the same zip code as the football recruiting budget!!! My goodness, that speaks volumes and it's not right!

 

[IUgradman]

Please list the "administrative and financial hurdles" that are suffered by coaches at IU. Please be specific. AND I know that one of them for you is a shared weight room.

Also, please provide links to substantiate your claims.

TIA

IU makes it very hard to admit grad transfers- the university does not do special admits for athletes. That is a huge hurdle. The lack of facilities investment until very recently is another issue. And even now many other programs have better facilities. Until this year the salary pool for coaches in the football program were minuscule. Purdue has a much bigger pool.

IU has made some incremental improvements but still has a long way to go to catch even programs like Purdue, Minnesota, Illinois, and Iowa.

 

[Palmbeachhoosier]

IU makes it very hard to admit grad transfers- the university does not do special admits for athletes. That is a huge hurdle. The lack of facilities investment until very recently is another issue. And even now many other programs have better facilities. Until this year the salary pool for coaches in the football program were minuscule. Purdue has a much bigger pool.

IU has made some incremental improvements but still has a long way to go to catch even programs like Purdue, Minnesota, Illinois, and Iowa.

Your claims that all of these schools have better football facilities than IU are simply not correct. The weight room shared or not shared is one of the top rooms in the country. The he stadium no longer looks like a high school stadium on steroids. The training facility is first class and they are building a training room just dedicated to football. The dinning room is super nice. New locker room and players lounge are being built. Academic facility is nice and everything is located in the stadium. The only time you need to leave the stadium is to go to class or sleep. I don’t know how make it any better for the players. Oh you can even have a social life as there are athletes from other teams in the same facility. The practice facilities are just outside the stadium. Build a new indoor facility and you would be complete.

 

[Bowlmania]

The he stadium no longer looks like a high school stadium on steroids

Yeah, but what about the she stadium?

Careful with typos or this may turn into a Title IX discussion (lol).

 

[Big Red Crimson Buffalo]

I think you've got the right coach for the job now. His recruiting is improving and so is the product on the field. IU was IN a lot of games they lost, and yes you can blame the coach for folding at the end of games but he doesn't have the depth at positions to match up in a slugfest. I'll be the first one to question Archie and IU's basketball direction, but I think you have football moving in the right direction.

Too many IU fans equate football with basketball, IE get a good coach, get better recruits, start winning quickly. It is not like basketball where a new coach can and should get the team turned around at least to mediocrity in a year or two, it takes time to build a roster with depth. One or two good kids can turn a basketball team around, you need 30 better, talented kids and the 30 kids behind them pushing them for their jobs to turn a football team around.

I don’t agree with this notion that it always takes time to build.
You’ve kind of contradicted your own situation with Purdue.

Brohm got Purdue to a bowl in his first two seasons. Now, was the talent there and Brohm simply utilized it where Hazell did not? Unsure, but most Purdue fans will tell you it was a dumpster fire with recruiting.

Not sure if guys like that are just simply master motivators, luck into it or had better pieces in place than most thought?

 

[Big Red Crimson Buffalo]

It is PATHETIC that the basketball recruiting budget is even in the same zip code as the football recruiting budget!!! My goodness, that speaks volumes and it's not right!

The fact that IU pays it’s basketball HC more than the football coach shows you IU is well behind the curve.

There wasn’t a team in the Final Four this year where the basketball coach makes significantly more than its football coach.

IU never figured it out through years of completely incompetent athletic directors.

 

[Palmbeachhoosier]

Yeah, but what about the she stadium?

Careful with typos or this may turn into a Title IX discussion (lol).

Don’t won’t to slight the women folk.

 

[Bowlmania]

The fact that IU pays it’s basketball HC more than the football coach shows you IU is well behind the curve.

There wasn’t a team in the Final Four this year where the basketball coach makes significantly more than its football coach.

IU never figured it out through years of completely incompetent athletic directors.

I feel like it's Groundhog Day with this argument because it always reappears on this board in one form or another.

With all due respect, the disparity in salaries demonstrates very little, if anything. IU basketball remains an attractive destination for head coaches. That means Athletics can set its sights high, explore multiple options and seek to bring in a high-level guy who's in demand. This, in turn, equates with a higher salary.

IU football, on the other hand, has historically been one of the most undesirable jobs in major college coaching. IU could throw money at a "name" coach and he would still avoid us like the plague.

The AD thought he found his football guy in Tom Allen. Time will tell if this was a good move or not but, again, it's not like football has the same scope of options that basketball does. Allen's making money that's commensurate with his experience. I'm not an FG apologist by any stretch but, if he believed Allen was his best option, why would he pay a dollar more than he needed to in order to get Allen's signature on a contract?

 

[Hoosier_Hack]

I feel like it's Groundhog Day with this argument because it always reappears on this board in one form or another.

With all due respect, the disparity in salaries demonstrates very little, if anything. IU basketball remains an attractive destination for head coaches. That means Athletics can set its sights high, explore multiple options and seek to bring in a high-level guy who's in demand. This, in turn, equates with a higher salary.

IU football, on the other hand, has historically been one of the most undesirable jobs in major college coaching. IU could throw money at a "name" coach and he would still avoid us like the plague.

The AD thought he found his football guy in Tom Allen. Time will tell if this was a good move or not but, again, it's not like football has the same scope of options that basketball does. Allen's making money that's commensurate with his experience. I'm not an FG apologist by any stretch but, if he believed Allen was his best option, why would he pay a dollar more than he needed to in order to get Allen's signature on a contract?

I agree with what you are saying. We should not pay more for a person we can get for less. I think people are misunderstood who speak about this subject. Here is the rub for me on the subject. I we know this is an undesirable destination, what is it specifically that makes it that and are we addressing it? The other issue is I believe we are ASSUMING a top type coach wouldn’t come for the money. I’m just not buying it. It’s possible I guess but I think we are providing an argument for the University that is unverifiable.... how do you prove a negative? We just supposedly a great OC without breaking the bank right?

If I’m reluctant to over pay for a quality coach at IU then we get the 30 year building efforts that are still on going. Our University has earned this distrust and scrutiny over the years..... I’ve always thought we were short sighted on this and I do believe we can get someone at IU. Everyone has a price

 

[Al Bino]

IU makes it very hard to admit grad transfers- the university does not do special admits for athletes. That is a huge hurdle. The lack of facilities investment until very recently is another issue. And even now many other programs have better facilities. Until this year the salary pool for coaches in the football program were minuscule. Purdue has a much bigger pool.

IU has made some incremental improvements but still has a long way to go to catch even programs like Purdue, Minnesota, Illinois, and Iowa.

If it is "very hard" for GT to get in, how do we get the ones we have? Very hard in what respect? Grades? What?

Facilities have been and are being address by the very man you are denigrating. I seriously doubt that IU under Glass in done when it comes to building/improving facilities.

He has shown that he is willing to pay for top assistants with the new OC.

If all progress stops then Glass should be under the gun. Until then, it appears to me that Glass has addressed most of the issues you raise especially since IU neglected some of these issues for years if not decades.

 

[Bowlmania]

We just supposedly a great OC without breaking the bank right?

The bank broke. At $800k per year, with incentives/bonuses approaching $1 million, DeBoer is IU's highest paid coordinator ever. The 800k is 300k more than DeBord was making at IU and in his last season at Tennessee.

 

[Big Red Crimson Buffalo]

I agree with what you are saying. We should not pay more for a person we can get for less. I think people are misunderstood who speak about this subject. Here is the rub for me on the subject. I we know this is an undesirable destination, what is it specifically that makes it that and are we addressing it? The other issue is I believe we are ASSUMING a top type coach wouldn’t come for the money. I’m just not buying it. It’s possible I guess but I think we are providing an argument for the University that is unverifiable.... how do you prove a negative? We just supposedly a great OC without breaking the bank right?

If I’m reluctant to over pay for a quality coach at IU then we get the 30 year building efforts that are still on going. Our University has earned this distrust and scrutiny over the years..... I’ve always thought we were short sighted on this and I do believe we can get someone at IU. Everyone has a price

Our new OC is paid pretty damn well in comparison to other OC’s. Deboer’s pay puts him inside the top 40 of all coordinators, both OC and DC.

As far as basketball, it’s much less attractive than people like to believe. We pay well there based on our tradition but we didn’t have high profile guys chomping at the bit to get in here. Donovan would have been a grand slam. He wasn’t interested. If we had been a Kentucky, he would likely have looked long and hard at it.

Hell, we’ve got big recruits turning us down. It’s a middle of the pack program anymore and not that appealing. I wouldn’t put much stock in the basketball program carrying IU to glory. It was surpassed years ago by other stable programs in the conference.

 

[td75]

IU could attract a MUCH BIGGER fish than many people believe if they put their money on the table....Money talks and Bullshit walks is and always will be relevant....

 

[Columbus-Boiler]

Our new OC is paid pretty damn well in comparison to other OC’s. Deboer’s pay puts him inside the top 40 of all coordinators, both OC and DC.

As far as basketball, it’s much less attractive than people like to believe. We pay well there based on our tradition but we didn’t have high profile guys chomping at the bit to get in here. Donovan would have been a grand slam. He wasn’t interested. If we had been a Kentucky, he would likely have looked long and hard at it.

Hell, we’ve got big recruits turning us down. It’s a middle of the pack program anymore and not that appealing. I wouldn’t put much stock in the basketball program carrying IU to glory. It was surpassed years ago by other stable programs in the conference.

Someone once said the ranking of your total assistant coaching salary pool will be the ranking your football team will hover around. You'll be 20 spots better sometimes and 20 spots worse, but over time it's a good predictor.

 

[IUgradman]

If it is "very hard" for GT to get in, how do we get the ones we have? Very hard in what respect? Grades? What?

Facilities have been and are being address by the very man you are denigrating. I seriously doubt that IU under Glass in done when it comes to building/improving facilities.

He has shown that he is willing to pay for top assistants with the new OC.

If all progress stops then Glass should be under the gun. Until then, it appears to me that Glass has addressed most of the issues you raise especially since IU neglected some of these issues for years if not decades.

Fred has had ten years to fix football and failed miserably. We built new baseball and softball stadiums before football and basketball got decent locker rooks. Priorities are way out if wack. He doesn’t get credit for finally addressing the gross underinvestment in football far too late in the game.

 

[Hoosier_Hack]

Our new OC is paid pretty damn well in comparison to other OC’s. Deboer’s pay puts him inside the top 40 of all coordinators, both OC and DC.

As far as basketball, it’s much less attractive than people like to believe. We pay well there based on our tradition but we didn’t have high profile guys chomping at the bit to get in here. Donovan would have been a grand slam. He wasn’t interested. If we had been a Kentucky, he would likely have looked long and hard at it.

Hell, we’ve got big recruits turning us down. It’s a middle of the pack program anymore and not that appealing. I wouldn’t put much stock in the basketball program carrying IU to glory. It was surpassed years ago by other stable programs in the conference.

What I was getting at was we just got a good one.... we paid him better than most and he came to IU.... I’m not sure it fits the argument that we don’t pay for a high quality HC because we can’t get one to come here.

 

[Palmbeachhoosier]

Fred has had ten years to fix football and failed miserably. We built new baseball and softball stadiums before football and basketball got decent locker rooks. Priorities are way out if wack. He doesn’t get credit for finally addressing the gross underinvestment in football far too late in the game.

We have a baseball program that was contending for conference championships and was playing in a public park in essence. They deserved an upgrade and for for Title IX reasons softball had to get an upgrade. That is not undervaluing the football team iti is placing value on a program that was deserving. It does not matter what order he made upgrades the fact is he is making upgrades throughout the whole department.

 

[Bowlmania]

IU could attract a MUCH BIGGER fish than many people believe if they put their money on the table....Money talks and Bullshit walks is and always will be relevant....

I'm not sure how you'd define a "much bigger fish." In any event, while it's easy to roll out the "money talks" cliche, history and logic don't support the claim that we'd entice some big name to Bloomington if we'd only be willing to write a huge check. Other programs, with much more to offer than we currently do, have checkbooks too. And why would a successful P5 coach (I assume that's the kind of guy you're talking about) want to take on this herculean task and risk his legacy and reputation in the process? Sorry, but money isn't the sole driver in a situation like this.

Hopefully we're already got our man and this discussion is academic. Have a good weekend.

 

[Daydreamer]

We have a baseball program that was contending for conference championships and was playing in a public park in essence. They deserved an upgrade and for for Title IX reasons softball had to get an upgrade. That is not undervaluing the football team iti is placing value on a program that was deserving. It does not matter what order he made upgrades the fact is he is making upgrades throughout the whole department.

And it’s flat out false. The NEZ construction, which included locker room upgrades, was started in 2007. Kauffman and Mohr Fields were built in 2012. New locker room upgrades are almost finished.
Every single post of his is complete lies mixed with statements that are neither provable nor disprovable. It’s classic internet trolling meant to reel in gullible people and poison the well. He has no interest in having an honest discussion and likely has no idea what the truth even is. No one should believe a single word of any of his posts.
Locking the thread because of him.