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Overall state of the program (long)

If we totally flop


then I could see a change but if we go 3-1 or 2-2 and make it to the tournament then I don't see Glass making a change. Maybe the best thing to do is get the big donors to get Glass out of his position then there will be a better chance of getting CTC out.
 
We very rarely ever recruited like those schools and....

I have no desire to be like UK, Duke, KU or UNC. I want to be Indiana and that is not too lofty a goal.
 
So you suggest we ditch high expectations and move forward with mediocrity

Right. I get it, and don't agree.

Bob Knight stood for excellence, winning 11 Big Ten titles and 3 National titles. I'd rather keep those types of expectations that just "move on the future" with excuses for losing
 
Do you want to win championships


because if you do then you have to be able to compete with those teams. I don't want to be like UK but being Duke is not a bad thing because they seem to get good kids who are also highly ranked. yes it would be nice to be like Bo Ryan teams where they are in the top 4 in the conference every year but until last year people on here criticized him for his tournament record.
 
Dude, we lead Wisconsin 13-1 since '09 and 22-5 post RMK..

in top 75 recruits. Talent has not been our problem.
 
I've said since early this season. If IU ends up in the NIT

Crean and Glass will be heralding the big improvement over last season as proof everything is on track.
 
Re: I was speaking in relative terms

OK, i see your point now. In other words, our schedule really couldn't be much easier, all things considered.
 
I would love Bo Ryan.


but I seen a lot of people on here criticizing him because he never won much in the tournament. I am not saying we should not make a change because I don't think CTC is a great coach but we need to get a coach who can still recruit more highly ranked recruits. I just never thought we had the talent to actually win a championship since CTC has been here and a different coach could have done better in 2013 but to me it was not a sure locked final four team.
 
Re: I would love Bo Ryan.

The state of the program is pathetic. Until Fred glass goes nothing will change though. I am sure you'll see more empty seats in the hall next year but he doesn't care. He loves crean and he created this mess with the crazy buyout. For that alone he should be fired
Posted from Rivals Mobile
 
Everyone agrees with what we have, that's the funny thing

It's just that some people say:

"don't fret, there is nothing that we can do, we aren't elite anymore, let it play out, Crean isn't going anywhere so we should stop complaining, there are no better coaches, stop living in the past, etc."

and others say

"we need a change if we have any hopes of remaining an elite program, our expectations have fallen, etc."

I think everyone agrees with what we have with Crean. Some people just think it would be damaging (rsiky) to change. Others feel that it is damaging (risky) to not change.
 
Not "everyone" :)

CheyeneMountainMan will not agree with your post.....we are find according to him and this is just part of the 10-12 year rebuilding process. Afterall, Rome was not built in 7 years.
smokin.r191677.gif
 
I, for one, never bought into the hype that our program had returned to elite status after the Watford shot. I see our main problem as a lack of mental toughness/basketball IQ. The perennial elites like Duke, KU, NC, UK etc. seem to always function as cold machines programmed to win. These teams do not get rattled as easily as IU and maintain a confidence that is constant regardless whether or not the shots are falling and/or arena they are playing in.

Crean has his moments but too often gets outcoached ( last night is another example ) and our guys get rattled too easily.

Bo Ryan and Jim B are successful because they recruit to a system they master. John C and Rick P are great coaches who also get NBA level talent because of their reputation.

There is no easy solution, but at the minimum, a program like IU should consist of mentally tough players with high basketball IQ.
 
Empty Seats

I believe most of those empty seats are paid for. So the only money Fred is losing is parking, concessions, IU gear possibilities for each of those seats. All is good ... I'm taking the RMK theory ... "if .... lay back and enjoy it"
 
I think I understand your POV better now. You think that...

we need to be more competitive in the one-and-done arena to be elite. I think we can get where we want to go and stay out of that mess for the most part. I enjoy having the players on campus a little longer and wouldn't accept the Kentucky model even if it brought back to back championships. This is the living in the past that you speak of... correct? If so, I see your point, but it's not the direction I want to see Indiana basketball go and I don't believe it's necessary.




This post was edited on 2/20 1:27 PM by Paterfamilias
 
Funny, have not seen him on here since the EPIC PU fail.

I wonder why??? LOL
 
The problem with your suggestion ...

Not here to bash your Ben Jackson recommendation but as an example ... last year the same thing was said about the coach at Creighton. Look at them this year after some graduations. I don't follow their forums but I bet some fans are asking why couldn't he have built his recruitment of better class this year off of their successes for the two years prior?

I'm not sure just a 'few good seasons" is enough to step into the IU job. I'll not mention that i know RMK didn't have much experience either but that is 1971 not 2015....two wholly different times for college basketball.

and no....I've never been someone wishing RMK would walk through that door.

There are some good coaches out there that would build on the IU brand and get IU back to where fans want ... consistent.
 
Re: Funny, have not seen him on here since the EPIC PU fail.

What about that character who showed up and seemed to be more of a Crean fan than an IU guy. "television" was part of his username as I recall.
 
It's the weather

Hard to get to a computer with roads like this, all the snow and ice.
roll.r191677.gif
 
that tv guy

I haven't checked but he probably went back to his home...the Marquette forum.
 
as one of the "we should just enjoy the season" crowd (of what, 3?)


Some days are easy and some days it really really really really really REALLY hard to heed my own advice.

I hate losing. My poor family knows I hate losing. It effects me for days. So grasping for an Annie song too often is the only action which prevents me from going off and spewing filth totaling unbecoming one who wishes to follow Christ.

This team should, with only a couple of exceptions, be bad. Below mediocre. But more times than not, they've surprised and over achieved winning games against higher rated talent, higher rated defenses. So why is it that when we lose, we look so stifled and ineffective (MD loss being an exception)?

I think there are two reasons: One we've reached our talent plateau. I love Hartman but there's only so much he can do giving up 7 inches. Love Troy, but unless he's properly set up, he's too wild to consistently generate his own shot. *Those who are so down on Crean should replay the game and watch the difference in Troy when he's trying to create vs. Troy within the structure of the offense. Crean uses Troy very well.

The second is coaching, yeah I know I'm off the reservation. There are a lot things I see Crean do that both impress and surprise me but last night highlighted one flaw that he's preached all season: Playing for the foul. We've seen it all year. He talked about it 'getting into the blocker body' at half-time. Anyone ever involved in little league baseball will tell you, if a kid walks up and it's obvious he's pushing to get walked, the strike zone will expand. You can't punt the responsibility of making a play off to the officials. They don't like it. I think that's why we don't get as many calls.
 
Re: Suppose the coach you pointed out

Maybe Brad Stevens would not be interested. But, I think IU should find out. Reports were that he was offered between $2-3 million per year for UCLA and maybe some other D-1 spots (Oregon, Clemson, Wake F). If reports are accurate, he got a 6 yr, $22 milion contract with Celtics (that is $3.6 million/yr). So, for that money, he "gets" to live in Boston, try to coach grown men (some of whom make more money that he does) to play his way, and he puts up with losing. Compare that to IU. Pay him $3 million per year, living in B-town, undisputed king-of-the-hill, coaching/teaching young players to play the "IU way" (that is, whatever way he wants them to play--I'll be okay with that), and he wins. Seems a no brainer, IF he wants the IU job. Maybe that is why he passed up other jobs, esp UCLA, knowing that taking any of those jobs might keep him from ever getting IU? Just wondering. Maybe he thought he would give the pro game a try, and then see what happens? Hope so, because the pro game is NOT the same as college basketball, and (I think) coaches have far less impact on the NBA than in NCAA. I can see Brad Stevens not wanting to be the coach that pushes someone else (like CTC) out the door, but IF that is his dream job and IF he wants it, I think IU admin has a duty to find out.
 
Oh please keep coach Clappy forever and give him a raise to boot !!! You scum bags deserve everything your getting and more !!
 
I never want to be like UK.

but we need our share of big time recruits to become elite which is what I thought most on here has been wanting. I don't want a team full of one and done's but if you have one a year then that wouldn't be that bad.
 
Great post! You've given a more literate explanation...

of the point I was trying to make all summer. Our baseline expectations for any given single season should be based on our talent level, experience and roster losses regardless of the previous seasons record. This is a talented team and, if Hanner had progressed at a normal rate,it looked like a 11-7, 23-8ish type team.

I don't give a pass to the coaching staff for the fact that Hanner has been a bust to this point, because A) They recruited him B) I'm not sure that Hanner's lack of progression isn't the fault of the staff (big man development has been a consistent weakness).

When this season is finished, we may still end up very close to my baseline expectation, but I would like to see my coach occasionally exceed expectations. IMO Crean has yet to do that. Some may point to the 11-12 season, but (as you say) that was only an illusion due to the under performance of the 10-11 team. My own rankings had IU #22 preseason of 11-12 based on talent and experience.
 
Re: We very rarely ever recruited like those schools and....

Originally posted by Paterfamilias:
I have no desire to be like UK, Duke, KU or UNC. I want to be Indiana and that is not too lofty a goal.
Click to expand...
So, you want to go another 27 years without winning a title?
 
Re: For the record, Sampson.....

....could run circles around Crean's coaching abilities. Make no mistake: Sampson was not a bad coach, only a bad person with way too much baggage. The guy could coach but had zero common sense outside of the hardwood.
 
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