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Normalizing the idea of ignoring or throwing out the Constitution

It is fascinating, though, that you think you know better than I why I changed my mind or that you think I prefer the current SCt to those of the past.
I'm a lawyer. I'm trained to cast speculative opinions as fact.
If you read my concerns again, you'll see your response provides me little comfort.
I wasn't trying to.
I'm afraid a new constitutional convention would lead to civil war and domestic strife and your response is that you think we'll see the breakup of the US within 50 years.

So you agree there is something to worry about here, even if it's just possibilities, if you value a United States, and not a fractured one.
I didn't say within 50 years, although that wouldn't surprise me.

So you agree there is something to worry about here, even if it's just possibilities, if you value a United States, and not a fractured one.

Yes.
(I botched this response, in terms of keeping the quoting of your post going. You'll either have to trust me, or check my quoting of your post. )

I admit that's not a universal value held right now, and, again, that worries me because I worry about the possibility it will be a violent, bloody process.
I hear you. You got a better prognosis?
Fear of bloody, violent events that might lead to a lot of people dying (guess who? It probably won't be the elites or the rich) is a concern that, I think, can be held by anyone on the political spectrum. In fact, my concern and who I think will be hurt is more a populist one.
Yup.
 
I revised my post during your answer, so I put some more stuff in.
Gotcha.
If it provides you comfort to think of me as a conservative, I can't stop you.
OK. I just think you're an example of how far right the country has moved the last few decades. You and Aloha are talismans. Aloha is being accused here of being a liberal.
I don't think it will be helpful for you, though, in divining my mental process or other substantive political views.
Perhaps you're right and I'm wrong. Wouldn't be the first time. I just call them as I see them.
I don't know who Rock is.
That's cool. Rock was an iconoclast of the left. He was here not too long ago - June 9, 2023 per my search.
 
I hear you. You got a better prognosis?
I don't know what's going to happen in this country and that scares me. Before 2016, I never had these worries. Maybe I'm being too dramatic. But that's even more reason I don't want what I think of as bad ideas to float around without being challenged by people in the same party/ideology. Because then, they could gain real currency.

Imagine Trump wins in 2024 and decides to take Tushnet up on his offer of ignoring the SCt and offering his own brand of "popular constitutionalism?" How's that going to work out?
 
I don't know what's going to happen in this country and that scares me. Before 2016, I never had these worries. Maybe I'm being too dramatic. But that's even more reason I don't want what I think of as bad ideas to float around without being challenged by people in the same party/ideology. Because then, they could gain real currency.

Imagine Trump wins in 2024 and decides to take Tushnet up on his offer of ignoring the SCt and offering his own brand of "popular constitutionalism?" How's that going to work out?
Why aren’t these radical professors being called out and censored?
 
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I don't know what's going to happen in this country and that scares me. Before 2016, I never had these worries.
Me either.
Maybe I'm being too dramatic.
A lawyer? Dramatic? No way.
But that's even more reason I don't want what I think of as bad ideas to float around without being challenged by people in the same party/ideology. Because then, they could gain real currency.
Agreed.
Imagine Trump wins in 2024 and decides to take Tushnet up on his offer of ignoring the SCt and offering his own brand of "popular constitutionalism?" How's that going to work out?
*shudder*.

It'd be the end of the rule of law, for a bit. That's the populist point, I think. Then I think folks would see the need for a social contract and would work something out . . . maybe as many as 5 different social contracts.
 
Gotcha.

OK. I just think you're an example of how far right the country has moved the last few decades. You and Aloha are talismans. Aloha is being accused here of being a liberal.

Perhaps you're right and I'm wrong. Wouldn't be the first time. I just call them as I see them.

That's cool. Rock was an iconoclast of the left. He was here not too long ago - June 9, 2023 per my search.
Oh, it's Rockfish. Sorry, I was imagining a guy with The Rock as an avatar (which would be cool). I only had one interaction with him.

Some people have the ability to objectively place a person's political views within the current environment, some don't. The terms we are using in politics seem to be changing by the day, so I'm not sure how useful they are for anyone anymore.

As for me, on ultimate political goals, I am as far "left" as most (probably farther left than you and maybe Rock).
 
Me either.

A lawyer? Dramatic? No way.

Agreed.

*shudder*.

It'd be the end of the rule of law, for a bit. That's the populist point, I think. Then I think folks would see the need for a social contract and would work something out . . . maybe as many as 5 different social contracts.
I just don't see people up and moving. Sure, I could. But my parents couldn't. They are in their late 70s and have lived where they've lived their whole lives.
 
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Oh, it's Rockfish. Sorry, I was imagining a guy with The Rock as an avatar (which would be cool). I only had one interaction with him.

Some people have the ability to objectively place a person's political views within the current environment, some don't. The terms we are using in politics seem to be changing by the day, so I'm not sure how useful they are for anyone anymore.

As for me, on ultimate political goals, I am as far "left" as most (probably farther left than you and maybe Rock).
Sorry . . . an old habit. Yes, Rockfish. Nope, no The Rock here so far as I know. I'd be surprised if you turned out to be farther left than either Rock or me. I'm a holdover from the New Deal types. Socialist, some say. (I don't think so, but here we are.) I've been to Snow's Corner . . . it's on the way to where my cousin used to live.
 
They should be called out. Censored? Because we are lucky enough to have the First Amendment.
The first amendment was shattered for college professors who disagreed with Lord Fauci.

These guys are as radical as those who wanted to overthrow the election January 6.
 
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The first amendment was shattered for college professors who disagreed with Lord Fauci.

These guys are as radical as those who wanted to overthrow the election January 6.
Even if that's true, two wrongs don't make a right. I think I should put that in my signature at this point, if I knew how to do such high-tech wizardry.
 
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The first amendment was shattered for college professors who disagreed with Lord Fauci.

These guys are as radical as those who wanted to overthrow the election January 6.
They are way more radical, organized, funded, and calculated. People are waking up to the fact that current university model is a scam for the most part unless you have money to burn for a drunk day care program, so all is not lost.
 
They are way more radical, organized, funded, and calculated. People are waking up to the fact that current university model is a scam for the most part unless you have money to burn for a drunk day care program, so all is not lost.
Yea, nutty professors and colleges are why we’re hellbent on the government forgiving student loans.
 
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Even if that's true, two wrongs don't make a right. I think I should put that in my signature at this point, if I knew how to do such high-tech wizardry.
Right now the wrongs on one side are winning the day. If the other side don’t start fighting back, what a screwed up country we’re going to have.
 
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Andy Jackson and the Trail of Tears say Hi.

I recall reading various similar propositions over the years, usually from those who opposed Roe and/or were railing against "legislating from the bench." That there is another rising academic discussion from the other direction is no big surprise following Dobbs and other recent rulings, especially considering the makeup of the Court and how that came about. When you illegitimately stack the Court, one shouldn't be surprised when its legitimacy is questioned.
 
That's why I'm asking for those people who are "most Dems" who reject these extremist views to speak out and denounce these ideas.
Can't help you there. I'm an "IND" after being a registered Republican for many years when it was still a great party.

Fun fact: Reagan carried 49 states (not a typo) in '84. It was a very different party then, and a very different country.
 
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It was illegally stacked when McConnell illegally claimed that he couldn't nominate someone during an election year. He had a legal duty to confirm a qualified candidate and he refused.

Everyone with a brain knew that was bull shit
Are you insane? You just provoke retread arguments that you’ve had a million times.

What enjoyment do you get out of that?

I think you’re insane.
 
Dems, please rein in your radicals:


In a recent open letter, Harvard law professor Mark Tushnet and San Francisco State University political scientist Aaron Belkin called upon President Joe Biden to defy rulings of the Supreme Court that he considers “mistaken” in the name of “popular constitutionalism.” Thus, in light of the court’s bar on the use of race in college admissions, they argue that Biden should just continue to follow his own constitutional interpretation.

. . .

Georgetown University Law School Professor Rosa Brooks was celebrated for her appearance on MSNBC’s “The ReidOut” after declaring that Americans are “slaves” to the U.S. Constitution and that the Constitution itself is now the problem for the country.

MSNBC commentator Elie Mystal called the U.S. Constitution “trash” and argued that we should simply just dump it.

Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-N.Y.) has questioned the need for a Supreme Court.

In a New York Times column, “The Constitution Is Broken and Should Not Be Reclaimed,” law professors Ryan D. Doerfler of Harvard and Samuel Moyn of Yale called for the Constitution to be “radically altered” to “reclaim America from constitutionalism.”

So the danger is now “constitutionalism,” as opposed to what Tushnet and Belkin call “popular constitutionalism.”

Many have called for the court to be packed with liberal appointees to bring it back to what Biden views as “normal.” Some of these calls before Biden’s Supreme Court commission echoed the same views as Tushnet and Belkin. Indeed, they cite Harvard professor Nikolas Bowie, who rejected the notion that “the constitutional interpretation held by a majority of Supreme Court justices should be ‘superior’ to the interpretations held by majorities of the other branches.”
And people question whether we'll have a civil war?
 
Andy Jackson and the Trail of Tears say Hi.

I recall reading various similar propositions over the years, usually from those who opposed Roe and/or were railing against "legislating from the bench." That there is another rising academic discussion from the other direction is no big surprise following Dobbs and other recent rulings, especially considering the makeup of the Court and how that came about. When you illegitimately stack the Court, one shouldn't be surprised when its legitimacy is questioned.
Local legend has it that the local Cherokee word for the trail of tears is said to be "E-tow-ah". That's how Hightower Trail Middle School supposedly got its name.

From the school's handbook:

The Hightower Trail began at the Apalachee River and continued west to Cherokee settlements on the Etowah River. Thus, the name Hightower was derived from the Cherokee pronunciation of Etowah as "E tow ah" with accent on the 2nd syllable and the first syllable silent. Few Indian paths remain extant, but traces of the original Hightower Trail are still in Cobb County.

So the deal apparently is that the Cherokee were pronouncing the name of the river settlements destination for the trail.

The Etowah River (Bartow County) and high school (Woodstock, GA) exist.
 
My question is what would happen if he did defy the rulings? Impeachment? I have no idea what the results of defying the rulings would be.
If his bureaucrats ignore the SC ruling, they need to be fired, at the very least.

Where are all the ones who thought 1/6 was Democracy 'hanging in the balance'? Ignoring the Constitution is exactly what that is.
 
if you ever want to put somone on ignore there's your number 1
He's too much entertainment. And no one takes him seriously anyway.

It's like igw - does anyone actually read what he posts?
 
And people question whether we'll have a civil war?
How does a civil war break down exactly? Do you know which state has the most registered Republicans in the country? California.

I don’t think people think this stuff through. It’s not going to be some clean conflict with clear dividing lines like slavery. Even that wasn’t a very clean diving line.

It would be all out madness. Does Staten Island fight in the Conservative side or the New York side?
 
agreed. and there is zero chance that modern politicians (or the public for that matter) could ever work together to the extent required to bring such a massive undertaking to fruition.

sope has posted in the past about restructuring gov. perhaps regional govs that might be more responsive/reflective of the region they serve. i think this is a wonderful idea. i think federalism is the greatest thing we have going but the state/federal gov structure needs tweaking. the sad reality is that the only thing we can come together on at this station is the most basic shit: fix a broken bridge
Regional governments? You would effectively end state governments. That just ain't gonna happen, unless all states agree to give up their borders and become Regions.
 
Regional governments? You would effectively end state governments. That just ain't gonna happen, unless all states agree to give up their borders and become Regions.
Not necessarily. And yes becoming regions would be possible in theory. Unlike most/some I actually live this divide. Saint Louis City doesn’t have a county. Saint Louis county borders it and is comprised of a ton of municipalities. There has been talk for as many years as I can remember about merging Saint Louis city and county. The consequences of the separation range from serious to trivial. A little thing like MLS wanting to be downtown meant that 30,000 people in the city who came out to vote determined whether 3 million in the metro got a team.

We would never reach agreements to divide up the country
 
How does a civil war break down exactly? Do you know which state has the most registered Republicans in the country? California.

I don’t think people think this stuff through. It’s not going to be some clean conflict with clear dividing lines like slavery. Even that wasn’t a very clean diving line.

It would be all out madness. Does Staten Island fight in the Conservative side or the New York side?
That's not how a civil war works. If the Constitution is ignored, law will break down (much as it is now) and eventually there will be anarchy. At that point, it's isn't Conservatives or Liberals - it's survival.

If you want to choose sides, it would be Constitutionalists vs Absolutists
 
Why? He's entitled to an opinion, same as you.

And I'd say he's more articulate in doing so than you are.

That's my opinion . . . change my mind . . . .
If I belched, it would be more articulate than Hickory.

*fart*
 
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So the left has mostly academics who are proposing doing away with the Constitution and the right has their presidential candidate. Tell me why then the right is up in arms about liberal law professors, but turns a blind eye to Trump (for the millionth time)? Typical.
I knew it would be Trump's fault, somehow.....
 
That's not how a civil war works. If the Constitution is ignored, law will break down (much as it is now) and eventually there will be anarchy. At that point, it's isn't Conservatives or Liberals - it's survival.

If you want to choose sides, it would be Constitutionalists vs Absolutists
You're probably longing for this.
 
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