Nonbinary babies? Let's have another fight!

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Oklahoma's governor signed a bill banning any nonbinary markers for gender on birth certificates. There's not a lot of detail in the articles about it, and I don't know much about it, myself, but here it is:

Oklahoma governor signs ban on nonbinary birth certificates

Oklahoma Gov. Kevin Stitt has signed a bill prohibiting the use of nonbinary gender markers on state birth certificates

abcnews.go.com

My immediate response was: "Okay, sounds fine. So what?" After all, no one has a gender identity at birth. We are assigned a gender at birth. Then our parents generally raise us as the gender we were assigned. Any problems arise much later in our development. So I couldn't see any reason to mark a birth certificate as anything other than M or F. But then I started thinking about it some more, and a few theoreticals occurred to me that might make this more of a deal than I thought it was. I'm still mulling it over, but I'm sure quite a few of you here will be capable of forming a strong opinion in a hurry....

So, GO!

 

[mcmurtry66]

Oklahoma's governor signed a bill banning any nonbinary markers for gender on birth certificates. There's not a lot of detail in the articles about it, and I don't know much about it, myself, but here it is:

Oklahoma governor signs ban on nonbinary birth certificates

Oklahoma Gov. Kevin Stitt has signed a bill prohibiting the use of nonbinary gender markers on state birth certificates

abcnews.go.com

My immediate response was: "Okay, sounds fine. So what?" After all, no one has a gender identity at birth. We are assigned a gender at birth. Then our parents generally raise us as the gender we were assigned. Any problems arise much later in our development. So I couldn't see any reason to mark a birth certificate as anything other than M or F. But then I started thinking about it some more, and a few theoreticals occurred to me that might make this more of a deal than I thought it was. I'm still mulling it over, but I'm sure quite a few of you here will be capable of forming a strong opinion in a hurry....

So, GO!

Fing great. Just what we need. More enbies

 

[MyTeamIsOnTheFloor]

Fing great. Just what we need. More enbies

Are you surprised that Goat doesn’t know he has a penis?

 

[twenty02]

Oklahoma's governor signed a bill banning any nonbinary markers for gender on birth certificates. There's not a lot of detail in the articles about it, and I don't know much about it, myself, but here it is:

Oklahoma governor signs ban on nonbinary birth certificates

Oklahoma Gov. Kevin Stitt has signed a bill prohibiting the use of nonbinary gender markers on state birth certificates

abcnews.go.com

My immediate response was: "Okay, sounds fine. So what?" After all, no one has a gender identity at birth. We are assigned a gender at birth. Then our parents generally raise us as the gender we were assigned. Any problems arise much later in our development. So I couldn't see any reason to mark a birth certificate as anything other than M or F. But then I started thinking about it some more, and a few theoreticals occurred to me that might make this more of a deal than I thought it was. I'm still mulling it over, but I'm sure quite a few of you here will be capable of forming a strong opinion in a hurry....

So, GO!

Theoreticals? Like?

I have read that approx 1 in 2k babies are born intersex. Basically having both M and F components. This has gone on forever, of course.

 

[Morrison]

Theoreticals? Like?

I have read that approx 1 in 2k babies are born intersex. Basically having both M and F components.

I always knew Aaron Rodgers was special.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Theoreticals? Like?

I have read that approx 1 in 2k babies are born intersex. Basically having both M and F components. This has gone on forever, of course.

Intersex was one thing I thought of. But traditionally, intersex babies are assigned a particular gender at birth (it used to be coupled with, ah, surgery, and the simplicity of the procedure meant an intersex baby was almost always assigned "female" - put two and two together on how that happened). I'm not sure if that's still true, though. Is it now standard practice to keep gender-indeterminate babies the way they are? I could see a case for a nonbinary marker in those rare cases.

Edit: I'm still not sure why it matters. Do most people care - or even know - what's on their birth certificate? I couldn't even honestly swear under oath that I'm sure my own name is on my birth certificate. I mean, I assume it is, but how would I know?

 

[twenty02]

Intersex was one thing I thought of. But traditionally, intersex babies are assigned a particular gender at birth (it used to be coupled with, ah, surgery, and the simplicity of the procedure meant an intersex baby was almost always assigned "female" - put two and two together on how that happened). I'm not sure if that's still true, though. Is it now standard practice to keep gender-indeterminate babies the way they are? I could see a case for a nonbinary marker in those rare cases.

Edit: I'm still not sure why it matters. Do most people care - or even know - what's on their birth certificate? I couldn't even honestly swear under oath that I'm sure my own name is on my birth certificate. I mean, I assume it is, but how would I know?

No....I don't think it really matters. These aren't new things. Biology is messy. I'm not on board with biological men participating in women's sports.... nor is there is a need to obsess over gender with young children... nor projecting behavior by adults.

 

[Lucy01]

Theoreticals? Like?

I have read that approx 1 in 2k babies are born intersex. Basically having both M and F components. This has gone on forever, of course.

Jamie Lee Curtis comes to mind.

 

[larsIU]

Jamie Lee Curtis comes to mind.

Still wood

 

[hookyIU1990]

I always knew Aaron Rodgers was special.

So he can literally and figuratively go eff himself?

 

[Courtsensetwo]

Babies become victims of their parent(s) politics at birth.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Oklahoma's governor signed a bill banning any nonbinary markers for gender on birth certificates. There's not a lot of detail in the articles about it, and I don't know much about it, myself, but here it is:

Oklahoma governor signs ban on nonbinary birth certificates

Oklahoma Gov. Kevin Stitt has signed a bill prohibiting the use of nonbinary gender markers on state birth certificates

abcnews.go.com

My immediate response was: "Okay, sounds fine. So what?" After all, no one has a gender identity at birth. We are assigned a gender at birth. Then our parents generally raise us as the gender we were assigned. Any problems arise much later in our development. So I couldn't see any reason to mark a birth certificate as anything other than M or F. But then I started thinking about it some more, and a few theoreticals occurred to me that might make this more of a deal than I thought it was. I'm still mulling it over, but I'm sure quite a few of you here will be capable of forming a strong opinion in a hurry....

So, GO!

Why are liberals so taken with making bizarre bullshit sound acceptable and normal? You can’t make a guy a gal by cutting his nuts off and pumping him full of hormones. Period.

if gender isn’t binary, why is ”gender affirming” surgery and treatment always binary?

All Oklahoma, Florida, and other states are doing is legislating normalcy. It’s a bizarre world when we must legislate normalcy.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

Why are liberals so taken with making bizarre bullshit sound acceptable and normal? You can’t make a guy a gal by cutting his nuts off and pumping him full of hormones. Period.

if gender isn’t binary, why is ”gender affirming” surgery and treatment always binary?

All Oklahoma, Florida, and other states are doing is legislating normalcy. It’s a bizarre world when we must legislate normalcy.

Everything Desantes is doing is tied to building his base, it has nothing to do with right, wrong or normal.

 

[Lucy01]

Everything Desantes is doing is tied to building his base, it has nothing to do with right, wrong or normal.

And your side doesn’t do the same thing! Give me a break.

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

Governments "legislating normalcy".

Nothing could go wrong there.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Everything Desantes is doing is tied to building his base, it has nothing to do with right, wrong or normal.

He is building a record to run ion. The building blocks are normalcy. So what?

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Governments "legislating normalcy".

Nothing could go wrong there.

Haha. I’d rather legislate a baby with a penis is a boy than have congress pass laws about restricting misinformation as Obama suggested a few days ago. A lot less goes wrong with free speech than not having free speech.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Babies become victims of their parent(s) politics at birth.

Believing that all this gender fluidity and confusion stuff is politics is straight out of the liberal playbook. It ain’t politics, it’s lunacy. But lunacy is all the left has these days.

 

[Hank Reardon]

Babies become victims of their parent(s) politics at birth.

Maybe briefly. I can attest that this doesn't stick.

 

[snarlcakes]

Why are liberals so taken with making bizarre bullshit sound acceptable and normal? You can’t make a guy a gal by cutting his nuts off and pumping him full of hormones. Period.

if gender isn’t binary, why is ”gender affirming” surgery and treatment always binary?

All Oklahoma, Florida, and other states are doing is legislating normalcy. It’s a bizarre world when we must legislate normalcy.

I'd don't think it's most liberals (at least I hope it's not). Most liberals I know think it's somewhere between silly and insane. It's the new Progressive Protestant wing of the Democratic Party who is pushing it.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Theoreticals? Like?

I have read that approx 1 in 2k babies are born intersex. Basically having both M and F components. This has gone on forever, of course.

Ambiguous genitalia in a new born does not determine ambiguous sex. As the kid grows, abnormal body parts tend to normalize. Mom‘s hormones and placenta performance also plays a role. In the case of a truly ambiguous infant, there are other ways to determine sex.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

I'd don't think it's most liberals (at least I hope it's not). Most liberals I know think it's somewhere between silly and insane. It's the new Progressive Protestant wing of the Democratic Party who is pushing it.

Agree. But the noisy ones have more influence.

 

[IUCrazy2]

I'd don't think it's most liberals (at least I hope it's not). Most liberals I know think it's somewhere between silly and insane. It's the new Progressive Protestant wing of the Democratic Party who is pushing it.

See, right now I honestly believe that is true. Behind closed doors if you really pinned down most Democrat voters, they would say this stuff is just insane. However, they are also terrified to make that stance in public. So they may not agree, they tend to go with the flow because the loudest activist voices in that party now almost to a man/woman have 2 characteristics: they are batshit crazy and they are bullies.

So they bully you into entertaining this stupid shit to begin with and then you do logic puzzles like these where your entertaining of the crazy gives it a veneer of legitimacy. We used to just tell these people they were nuts and to STFU. You want to do that weird shit, do it being closed doors.

Stand up to the real bullies here and tell the LGBT folks enough. We tolerate that you want a different lifestyle and that is what this is. However, we are done flip flopping the rules to accommodate the alternative (i.e. not the norm) lifestyle you want to live.

In answer to Goat's question. If they only have one piece of equipment down there, then you put on the birth certificate what every human since forever would identify them as. If they are the rare exception that has 2, then that is between the parents and doctors. I don't think you come up with a new paradigm for .05% of the population. I honestly question if the incidence of that happening is even that high.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Here is a serious question, how does the issue of gender identification negatively impact your (the reader) life? I don't care if someone thinks of themselves as male, female, neither, both, or a raccoon. It just doesn't matter to me, if it makes them happy to think that way, sure. I don't get tattoos or piercings either, but if you have one more power to you. You don't have to live your life to please me.

Now in the sports arena there might be questions. I get that. But if on the street you meet someone who you believe is clearly male and they tell you they are non-binary, how has this damaged your life?

Again, I don't get why people want to do this either, but I don't see any way it is hurting me if they do any more than the tattoo or piercing (or long hair, or beard, or being left-handed, or being vegetarian, or being a Republican/Democrat). Can someone explain the harm to them from all this.

 

[mushroomgod_1]

Are you surprised that Goat doesn’t know he has a penis?

Hehe....nothing defines Leftists more than their arrogance and lack of common sense. It's in full display on this topic.

 

[bub-rub]

Ambiguous genitalia in a new born does not determine ambiguous sex. As the kid grows, abnormal body parts tend to normalize. Mom‘s hormones and placenta performance also plays a role. In the case of a truly ambiguous infant, there are other ways to determine sex.

interesting you talk ‘normalcy’ and then say some pretty crazy stuff about normalizing body parts and placenta performance. Lol

 

[larsIU]

All Oklahoma, Florida, and other states are doing is legislating normalcy. It’s a bizarre world when we must legislate normalcy.

Stand up to the real bullies here and tell the LGBT folks enough. We tolerate that you want a different lifestyle and that is what this is. However, we are done flip flopping the rules to accommodate the alternative (i.e. not the norm) lifestyle you want to live.

There's so much going on in these two statements as to possibly give this thread legs.

COH - legislating normalcy? I would bet we could find a similar quote during the days of JIm Crow

Crazy - So gay people just up and choose to be gay now?

 

[mushroomgod_1]

Agree. But the noisy ones have more influence.

I don't think you're even stating this strongly enough. The 85% who aren't crazy run the show, and the majority defers to them almost always. They keep the majority in checks by using the "isms". just as they try to do with conservatives.

 

[mushroomgod_1]

Here is a serious question, how does the issue of gender identification negatively impact your (the reader) life? I don't care if someone thinks of themselves as male, female, neither, both, or a raccoon. It just doesn't matter to me, if it makes them happy to think that way, sure. I don't get tattoos or piercings either, but if you have one more power to you. You don't have to live your life to please me.

Now in the sports arena there might be questions. I get that. But if on the street you meet someone who you believe is clearly male and they tell you they are non-binary, how has this damaged your life?

Again, I don't get why people want to do this either, but I don't see any way it is hurting me if they do any more than the tattoo or piercing (or long hair, or beard, or being left-handed, or being vegetarian, or being a Republican/Democrat). Can someone explain the harm to them from all this.

If you've reached your age, and don't understand, you never will.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

If you've reached your age, and don't understand, you never will.

So you don't have an answer? How does it damage YOUR life?

 

[anon_mya1phvcpf5x4]

Hehe....nothing defines Rightists more than their arrogance and lack of common sense. It's in full display on this topic.

fify

 

[anon_mya1phvcpf5x4]

If you've reached your age, and don't understand, you never will.

So how does it impact your life? capable of even answering the question?

“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye."

I think there's a few more things in the bible about judging others and their life choices.

 

[BCCHoosier]

Hehe....nothing defines Leftists more than their arrogance and lack of common sense. It's in full display on this topic.

But why does any of this matter? In a world full of serious problems and challenges, why is this the focus?

 

[Standard Issue]

Oklahoma's governor signed a bill banning any nonbinary markers for gender on birth certificates. There's not a lot of detail in the articles about it, and I don't know much about it, myself, but here it is:

Oklahoma governor signs ban on nonbinary birth certificates

Oklahoma Gov. Kevin Stitt has signed a bill prohibiting the use of nonbinary gender markers on state birth certificates

abcnews.go.com

My immediate response was: "Okay, sounds fine. So what?" After all, no one has a gender identity at birth. We are assigned a gender at birth. Then our parents generally raise us as the gender we were assigned. Any problems arise much later in our development. So I couldn't see any reason to mark a birth certificate as anything other than M or F. But then I started thinking about it some more, and a few theoreticals occurred to me that might make this more of a deal than I thought it was. I'm still mulling it over, but I'm sure quite a few of you here will be capable of forming a strong opinion in a hurry....

So, GO!

Manna for morons.

 

[BCCHoosier]

If you've reached your age, and don't understand, you never will.

Just think if you guys spent as much time solving healthcare. By now I'd bet you'd have an alternative for the horrible Obamacare plan.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

There's so much going on in these two statements as to possibly give this thread legs.

COH - legislating normalcy? I would bet we could find a similar quote during the days of JIm Crow

That’s a good bet. I guess you agree with Biden when he said transgender rights is the civil rights issue of the 21st century. Not the same thing. There is no room for separate but equal which was the backbone of Jim Crow laws. Believing, or teaching kids, that the presence of a penis does not mean you are a boy is insane. This whole issue is the product of the simple pleasure of people needing a cause. Now that the whole gay thing is resolved and behind us, some must fulfill their purpose by creating new flashpoints. Like a fire searching for air, the left wing loons need this issue. It’s fake.

 

[mushroomgod_1]

That’s a good bet. I guess you agree with Biden when he said transgender rights is the civil rights issue of the 21st century. Not the same thing. There is no room for separate but equal which was the backbone of Jim Crow laws. Believing, or teaching kids, that the presence of a penis does not mean you are a boy is insane. This whole issue is the product of the simple pleasure of people needing a cause. Now that the whole gay thing is resolved and behind us, some must fulfill their purpose by creating new flashpoints. Like a fire searching for air, the left wing loons need this issue. It’s fake.

Pelosi to Berkeley brats---'be a disruptor".

But don't ask me to give up my power until I'm 100, and don't look at my insider trading.

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

 

[mushroomgod_1]

So how does it impact your life? capable of even answering the question?

“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye."

I think there's a few more things in the bible about judging others and their life choices.

Wow, Hickory, turning to the Bible. Did it shock your hand when you touched it?

"Hear this, O foolish people. Without understanding; which have eyes, but see not; which have ears, but hear not".

Who knew Jeremiah was a Pub?

 

[larsIU]

I guess you agree with Biden when he said transgender rights is the civil rights issue of the 21st century.

No, I don't

This whole issue is the product of the simple pleasure of people needing a cause.

I probably agree with this somewhat

Now that the whole gay thing is resolved and behind us

I suspect it is neither fully resolve nor fully behind us.