New blocking scheme this fall

[TomEric4756]

Zone schemes succeed when the OL can win at least a 50/50 standoff from the opponent across the line. And at least one OL can do better than 50/50 most of the time. HH’s profile on Bedford suggests zone schemes will be displaced in the new run scheme. And many of us will recall the story about Walt Bell installing the running game himself during spring practice.

“There are several factors at play including new personnel, younger players developing and a new offensive system under new offensive coordinator Walt Bell. A different system may place a different emphasis on certain types of blocking and the Hoosiers might move away from some of the zone blocking tendencies they mightily struggled with under Nick Sheridan’s play-calling. While the hope is that a change in scheme and the return of Bedford and Haggard leads to improved play for the line, the reality is that IU needs three people to step up on the interior. There are several candidates and the offense needs Matthew Bedford to be a standout performer to help the new starters on the inside progress.”

https://hoosierhuddle.com/hoosier-b...ufb-kickoff-76-days-matthew-bedford/2022/6/18

 

[sparkeyreturns]

Zone schemes succeed when the OL can win at least a 50/50 standoff from the opponent across the line. And at least one OL can do better than 50/50 most of the time. HH’s profile on Bedford suggests zone schemes will be displaced in the new run scheme. And many of us will recall the story about Walt Bell installing the running game himself during spring practice.

“There are several factors at play including new personnel, younger players developing and a new offensive system under new offensive coordinator Walt Bell. A different system may place a different emphasis on certain types of blocking and the Hoosiers might move away from some of the zone blocking tendencies they mightily struggled with under Nick Sheridan’s play-calling. While the hope is that a change in scheme and the return of Bedford and Haggard leads to improved play for the line, the reality is that IU needs three people to step up on the interior. There are several candidates and the offense needs Matthew Bedford to be a standout performer to help the new starters on the inside progress.”

https://hoosierhuddle.com/hoosier-b...ufb-kickoff-76-days-matthew-bedford/2022/6/18

Anyone else getting a Trojan alert when going to this site?

 

[TMFT]

Anyone else getting a Trojan alert when going to this site?

Hoosier huddle? I never have before.

 

[IUCX9]

Anyone else getting a Trojan alert when going to this site?

Sounds like you already have malware.

 

[IU_Hickory]

Sounds like you already have malware.

needs to stay away from those unreputable sites lol

 

[mk30]

Whatever scheme they come up with almost has to be better than last year, right? Depending on Bedford makes me a little nervous. Seems like the longer a guy is here, the worse he gets. Hope I'm wrong.

 

[Euro]

In the "go fast offense" we are going to run u can't get too cute with complicated blocking schemes

 

[TomEric4756]

In the "go fast offense" we are going to run u can't get too cute with complicated blocking schemes

I hope firing off the ball and hitting someone is one of the features

 

[fwiu]

I hope firing off the ball and hitting someone is one of the features

Emphasize hitting somebody!

 

[82hoosier]

Last year the defensive line schemes the Hoosiers had trouble with was when the defenders lined on the inside shoulder or just outside of the offensive lineman and then when the ball was snapped the defenders would run right past them. Also difficult to defend was the bull rushes that would drive the offensive lineman back into the pocket. Hopefully the Hoosiers will be able to figure out this chicanery before next season starts.

 

[812jmac]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but it seemed like our O-line (minus Center) was kind of in a leaning “squat” / two-point stance at the line instead of a three-point most of the time.
On the rare occasion we went three-point, we owned the line. Two-point, we were pushed into our backfield. Seems like simple leverage to me. The opposing D-Line would push up and through a basically standing O-Line but it was a battle in the trench when our guys came out of the three-point.

 

[vesuvius13]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but it seemed like our O-line (minus Center) was kind of in a leaning “squat” / two-point stance at the line instead of a three-point most of the time.
On the rare occasion we went three-point, we owned the line. Two-point, we were pushed into our backfield. Seems like simple leverage to me. The opposing D-Line would push up and through a basically standing O-Line but it was a battle in the trench when our guys came out of the three-point.

I think a two point stance gives players the attitude they are not being aggressive off the ball while a three point stance has them in the mind set of firing off the ball. So much of football is what the players believe in and most come from programs where they play from a three point stance. There are teams successful with the two point stance but it seems to be ones that pass first with some running plays.

 

[Euro]

I think a two point stance gives players the attitude they are not being aggressive off the ball while a three point stance has them in the mind set of firing off the ball. So much of football is what the players believe in and most come from programs where they play from a three point stance. There are teams successful with the two point stance but it seems to be ones that pass first with some running plays.

Agree totally but it's the OL coaches duty to get them to drop their hips on take off and get to the same position as coming off the ball from a 3pt. But he's gotta make em believe it!!

 

[Jssanto]

I think a two point stance gives players the attitude they are not being aggressive off the ball while a three point stance has them in the mind set of firing off the ball. So much of football is what the players believe in and most come from programs where they play from a three point stance. There are teams successful with the two point stance but it seems to be ones that pass first with some running plays.

I have never thought about it like this but it does make sense.

 

[Crossblock]

I think a two point stance gives players the attitude they are not being aggressive off the ball while a three point stance has them in the mind set of firing off the ball. So much of football is what the players believe in and most come from programs where they play from a three point stance. There are teams successful with the two point stance but it seems to be ones that pass first with some running plays.

I agree with your point, but allow Me to elaborate. My opinion has been that a 2 point stance is designed in many cases to minimize the possibility of being beaten on the pass rush. You are removing one step in the process and You are immediately in pass blocking position.
On the other hand, as You point out, You are not in a position to fire off the ball and step into a Defender. It's as if you are being asked to absorb a Defender rather than blocking Him, That whole philosophy then carries into your run blocking where You do a lot of Zone Blocking Finesse Stuff rather than outright power blocking.

 

[vesuvius13]

I agree with your point, but allow Me to elaborate. My opinion has been that a 2 point stance is designed in many cases to minimize the possibility of being beaten on the pass rush. You are removing one step in the process and You are immediately in pass blocking position.
On the other hand, as You point out, You are not in a position to fire off the ball and step into a Defender. It's as if you are being asked to absorb a Defender rather than blocking Him, That whole philosophy then carries into your run blocking where You do a lot of Zone Blocking Finesse Stuff rather than outright power blocking.

What you bring up is why some teams put interior OL in three point stances and OT in two point stances so the OTs had a chance to jump on out outside pass rushes. OC need to have run blocking that matches with their philosophy on offense.

 

[Euro]

I agree with your point, but allow Me to elaborate. My opinion has been that a 2 point stance is designed in many cases to minimize the possibility of being beaten on the pass rush. You are removing one step in the process and You are immediately in pass blocking position.
On the other hand, as You point out, You are not in a position to fire off the ball and step into a Defender. It's as if you are being asked to absorb a Defender rather than blocking Him, That whole philosophy then carries into your run blocking where You do a lot of Zone Blocking Finesse Stuff rather than outright power blocking.

FYI you are not eliminating a step in pass pro when starting from a 2pt stance, it just reduces the time to get to the upright position

 

[IUCX9]

What you bring up is why some teams put interior OL in three point stances and OT in two point stances so the OTs had a chance to jump on out outside pass rushes. OC need to have run blocking that matches with their philosophy on offense.

We are probably going to see a lot of inside draws with this blocking scheme. There are a lot of speed rush DEs in the B1G. This scheme will let the OT draw them out and around, while we try to bust one up the middle. It also gives the OTs better vision, allowing them to see the blitz a bit better.

 

[daddyhoosier]

How did I miss this thread lol? Super interesting topic.

Last year, omgsh I swear we were well past the halfway mark of the season before Sheridan ran anything other than inside zone. Now I realize you can't just abandon the game plan the first time it doesn't succeed but he seemed a little obtuse about it. I mean it would be clear inside zone wasn't there half way through the 2nd qtr but half way though the 4th he'd still slam it between the tackles for 1.5 yards.

I remember just the simple wrinkle of delaying the handoff by 0.75 seconds added some life to the otherwise very uninspired run game. They added a couple more wrinkles after that (including some outside zone) but I remember thinking: how can a Big Ten football team only have one running play for half the season? I mean this is really not an exaggeration, am I wrong lol?

I've actually come around on zone blocking schemes though I didn't like them at first. There's something to be said for a three point stance and firing off the ball but I think one of the arguments against is that you tip the run that way with your weight distribution. Also with RPO you can't fire off too far because if it's a pass you'll be downfield illegally.

I think I would do zone about 75 percent of the time and then work in three or four pro / power concepts as kind of an off-speed wrinkle. (Or inverse off-speed lol?) Some kind of inside trap, something misdirection and some kind of sweep (but not the bleeping jet sweep lol). And then of course passing wrinkles that build on said run concepts.

 

[vesuvius13]

Anyone else getting a Trojan alert when going to this site?

No, I just checked.

 

[vesuvius13]

How did I miss this thread lol? Super interesting topic.

Last year, omgsh I swear we were well past the halfway mark of the season before Sheridan ran anything other than inside zone. Now I realize you can't just abandon the game plan the first time it doesn't succeed but he seemed a little obtuse about it. I mean it would be clear inside zone wasn't there half way through the 2nd qtr but half way though the 4th he'd still slam it between the tackles for 1.5 yards.

I remember just the simple wrinkle of delaying the handoff by 0.75 seconds added some life to the otherwise very uninspired run game. They added a couple more wrinkles after that (including some outside zone) but I remember thinking: how can a Big Ten football team only have one running play for half the season? I mean this is really not an exaggeration, am I wrong lol?

I've actually come around on zone blocking schemes though I didn't like them at first. There's something to be said for a three point stance and firing off the ball but I think one of the arguments against is that you tip the run that way with your weight distribution. Also with RPO you can't fire off too far because if it's a pass you'll be downfield illegally.

I think I would do zone about 75 percent of the time and then work in three or four pro / power concepts as kind of an off-speed wrinkle. (Or inverse off-speed lol?) Some kind of inside trap, something misdirection and some kind of sweep (but not the bleeping jet sweep lol). And then of course passing wrinkles that build on said run concepts.

I don't like the way many college teams run the zone play. They often let some players run free and expect backs to make LB or talented DL players miss not good odds to me.

 

[Baller23Boogie]

I don't like the way many college teams run the zone play. They often let some players run free and expect backs to make LB or talented DL players miss not good odds to me.

I've watched some highlights of some Maryland games that Bell called and I'm optimistic on the type of offense we'll see.

He seems to like to spead it out and get the ball in space. I saw some quick hitters to receivers, like Purdue does, almost as a extention of the run.

I feel like a more quick hit type of offense will really help disguise the flaws our offensive line has.

 

[daddyhoosier]

I don't like the way many college teams run the zone play. They often let some players run free and expect backs to make LB or talented DL players miss not good odds to me.

I mean you don't have to pancake the guy all the way to hades but make solid contact and be an obstacle

 

[Baller23Boogie]

I mean you don't have to pancake the guy all the way to hades but make solid contact and be an obstacle

Just standing in the way would be an improvement from last year.

 

[ribbont]

I've watched some highlights of some Maryland games that Bell called and I'm optimistic on the type of offense we'll see.

He seems to like to spead it out and get the ball in space. I saw some quick hitters to receivers, like Purdue does, almost as a extention of the run.

I feel like a more quick hit type of offense will really help disguise the flaws our offensive line has.

From the front page article, I came away with the impression the players are glad to have Bell.

I always wondered if our poor line play was more because of Sheridan than Hiller. Guess we will see.

 

[TomEric4756]

Speaking of the OL, It was Hiller’s turn to be the press conference feature today.

Really interesting background on Haggard who volunteered to play LT for his JUCO team.
Bedford said he hit the weights hard this year.

Lots of good quotes from Katic in the Rivals piece. Katic liked Bell’s involvement in OL work.

Let’s hope Wellman’s charges earned an assist in getting the OL ready to play this year.
The roster says we have plenty of guys 300+,
who didn’t seem to be as well prepared as many of us hoped last season.

Allen made the OL group his off-season project before spring practice.
Little has been written about them thus far.

https://iuhoosiers.com/news/2022/8/18/football-quoted-fall-camp-edition-offensive-line.aspx

https://indiana.rivals.com/news/und...-bell-indiana-s-o-line-has-a-reimagined-focus

 

[TomEric4756]

How did I miss this thread lol? Super interesting topic.

Last year, omgsh I swear we were well past the halfway mark of the season before Sheridan ran anything other than inside zone. Now I realize you can't just abandon the game plan the first time it doesn't succeed but he seemed a little obtuse about it. I mean it would be clear inside zone wasn't there half way through the 2nd qtr but half way though the 4th he'd still slam it between the tackles for 1.5 yards.

I remember just the simple wrinkle of delaying the handoff by 0.75 seconds added some life to the otherwise very uninspired run game. They added a couple more wrinkles after that (including some outside zone) but I remember thinking: how can a Big Ten football team only have one running play for half the season? I mean this is really not an exaggeration, am I wrong lol?

I've actually come around on zone blocking schemes though I didn't like them at first. There's something to be said for a three point stance and firing off the ball but I think one of the arguments against is that you tip the run that way with your weight distribution. Also with RPO you can't fire off too far because if it's a pass you'll be downfield illegally.

I think I would do zone about 75 percent of the time and then work in three or four pro / power concepts as kind of an off-speed wrinkle. (Or inverse off-speed lol?) Some kind of inside trap, something misdirection and some kind of sweep (but not the bleeping jet sweep lol). And then of course passing wrinkles that build on said run concepts.

I would think all offenses should include a trap play, even if only as a change up for a hard charging lineman. Does a guard have the feet to make it work? All zone blocking all the time sounds too predictable to me.

Tandon Doss made a lot of hay with the jet sweep. But I don’t see this roster’s slots as physical enough to run a steady diet of jet sweeps. They do look like slant-go RAC champs. They should do well motioning into a wheel route too.

 

[sparkeyreturns]

From the front page article, I came away with the impression the players are glad to have Bell.

I always wondered if our poor line play was more because of Sheridan than Hiller. Guess we will see.

Sheridan was the OC for two years, not five. Our line has regressed every year under this chode.

 

[Hoosier Clarion]

From the front page article, I came away with the impression the players are glad to have Bell.

I always wondered if our poor line play was more because of Sheridan than Hiller. Guess we will see.

My claim since since last season Cincy game. Still believe Hiller doesn't instill aggressive, chip on both shoulders big ugly resolve but Sheridan doesn't have the savvy to connect the dots as an OC. Poor management skills mixed with lack of urgency to make adjustments doomed the IU offense, season and FB program last year. Like someone else posted, 'Bell can't do worse'.

 

[Hoosier Clarion]

My optimism for the season has increased about 20% after seeing the new version of Hiller. Where'd the rest of him go? Heard he lost weight. Didn't know how much was lost displaying someone with willpower to improve himself personally and no doubt giving him more confidence to coach up a bunch of underperforming boys. Positive action.
Go HOOSIERS!!!

 

[Courtsensetwo]

My claim since since last season Cincy game. Still believe Hiller doesn't instill aggressive, chip on both shoulders big ugly resolve but Sheridan doesn't have the savvy to connect the dots as an OC. Poor management skills mixed with lack of urgency to make adjustments doomed the IU offense, season and FB program last year. Like someone else posted, 'Bell can't do worse'.

It was fater the Cincy game that TA felt the need to get more involved in the in-game management of the offense. Not his strength and the both sides of the ball suffered.