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Nails it

Dec 21, 2001
5
21
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ITH: On Romeo’s season … to this day if I tweet something about him, there will be a certain set of comments I’ll get that say he was a bust … I don’t know if it is just because the expectations were ridiculous, but do you think any of that is unfair? The way people, in a lot of ways, kind of ripped him for how he played at IU. The dude averaged 16 points with a torn ligament in his wrist. What did you think about that, especially as someone who is from Indiana, to see how some fans bailed on him?

Hartman: That’s the Indiana fanbase, in my opinion. You’ve got a bunch of people who never played the game, especially at this level. And you got a lot of people who didn’t even go to the university. That’s what makes Indiana fans so great is they are so passionate. But they are also very irrational. You have to put it in perspective. This kid is 18 years old. The thing is, he’s so young and when you get put on a pedestal like that and you have such high expectations and the stress … when fans turn their TV off, the game is over. But the dude still has to live with whatever the result was. He’s gotta go back to his dorm room. Not an apartment, not living on his own … he goes to a dorm room because he’s an 18 year old kid.

My freshman year, I almost transferred because the Indiana fanbase said I was a wasted scholarship, I didn’t deserve my scholarship, I shouldn’t be here, I’m worthless … I internalized that stuff as a freshman because I didn’t know any better. And my sophomore year on, I didn’t care what the fans thought or said. Because none of them had been in my shoes, ever. I stopped reading your guy’s (message) boards because people would comment and say whatever. I stopped reading all of that stuff. Because none of it was positive.

And so as a kid, it is hard to stay off of those platforms and it’s hard to not internalize those things because you are not emotionally mature enough to do it yet. I was blessed and lucky enough to have a support system that reinforced that I belonged there and that I could do it and that I was doing the right things and that it was going to take time. A lot of kids don’t have that.

Think about it this way. I always ask IU fans, do you have kids? Just imagine if you had thousands and thousands of people just destroying that person’s personal identity not just as a player, but them as a person. Destroying them on the most public of platforms, how would you feel for that person? It’s hard because people are irrational and don’t understand that. Yes, you can be passionate, but you have to be passionate in the right way. You can be critical, but you have to be critical in the right way. You can’t just throw out insults and throw out irrational comments when you have nothing to back it up. And you have no perspective because you are not in their day-to-day.

Even you guys in the media room have more perspective because you are at least talking to the coaches and having interviews with us. You guys turn off the recorders and we have a personal relationship like I do with you and Zach (Osterman) and Kyle (Neddenriep) and all of those guys, it’s different. You guys know us on more of a personal level than fans do. So they don’t understand that kids read that stuff. And they take it to heart. And their parents take it to heart and it pisses them off, too. And it really accomplishes nothing.

Because I’m going to tell you right now, all of these fans tweeting at the coaches tweeting at the coaches saying ‘you need to play so and so,’ they’re not reading that. (Laughing.) Coach Miller is getting paid a lot of money. Do you think he’s not going to do his best? Do you think he’s going to listen to some guy on some message board or tweeting him that’s never played the game before at this level? Do you think he’s going to listen to that? No. So you are literally wasting words. Wasting your time and energy and all of that. I just think it is comical that people think they’re going to make a difference by doing that. All you are doing is bringing negative energy to the program, the players, to the coaching staff, everything. You’re not accomplishing anything. I always thought it was comical how people truly think they’re making a difference when you say things like that. It’s not for the better, that’s for sure.
 
ITH: On Romeo’s season … to this day if I tweet something about him, there will be a certain set of comments I’ll get that say he was a bust … I don’t know if it is just because the expectations were ridiculous, but do you think any of that is unfair? The way people, in a lot of ways, kind of ripped him for how he played at IU. The dude averaged 16 points with a torn ligament in his wrist. What did you think about that, especially as someone who is from Indiana, to see how some fans bailed on him?

Hartman: That’s the Indiana fanbase, in my opinion. You’ve got a bunch of people who never played the game, especially at this level. And you got a lot of people who didn’t even go to the university. That’s what makes Indiana fans so great is they are so passionate. But they are also very irrational. You have to put it in perspective. This kid is 18 years old. The thing is, he’s so young and when you get put on a pedestal like that and you have such high expectations and the stress … when fans turn their TV off, the game is over. But the dude still has to live with whatever the result was. He’s gotta go back to his dorm room. Not an apartment, not living on his own … he goes to a dorm room because he’s an 18 year old kid.

My freshman year, I almost transferred because the Indiana fanbase said I was a wasted scholarship, I didn’t deserve my scholarship, I shouldn’t be here, I’m worthless … I internalized that stuff as a freshman because I didn’t know any better. And my sophomore year on, I didn’t care what the fans thought or said. Because none of them had been in my shoes, ever. I stopped reading your guy’s (message) boards because people would comment and say whatever. I stopped reading all of that stuff. Because none of it was positive.

And so as a kid, it is hard to stay off of those platforms and it’s hard to not internalize those things because you are not emotionally mature enough to do it yet. I was blessed and lucky enough to have a support system that reinforced that I belonged there and that I could do it and that I was doing the right things and that it was going to take time. A lot of kids don’t have that.

Think about it this way. I always ask IU fans, do you have kids? Just imagine if you had thousands and thousands of people just destroying that person’s personal identity not just as a player, but them as a person. Destroying them on the most public of platforms, how would you feel for that person? It’s hard because people are irrational and don’t understand that. Yes, you can be passionate, but you have to be passionate in the right way. You can be critical, but you have to be critical in the right way. You can’t just throw out insults and throw out irrational comments when you have nothing to back it up. And you have no perspective because you are not in their day-to-day.

Even you guys in the media room have more perspective because you are at least talking to the coaches and having interviews with us. You guys turn off the recorders and we have a personal relationship like I do with you and Zach (Osterman) and Kyle (Neddenriep) and all of those guys, it’s different. You guys know us on more of a personal level than fans do. So they don’t understand that kids read that stuff. And they take it to heart. And their parents take it to heart and it pisses them off, too. And it really accomplishes nothing.

Because I’m going to tell you right now, all of these fans tweeting at the coaches tweeting at the coaches saying ‘you need to play so and so,’ they’re not reading that. (Laughing.) Coach Miller is getting paid a lot of money. Do you think he’s not going to do his best? Do you think he’s going to listen to some guy on some message board or tweeting him that’s never played the game before at this level? Do you think he’s going to listen to that? No. So you are literally wasting words. Wasting your time and energy and all of that. I just think it is comical that people think they’re going to make a difference by doing that. All you are doing is bringing negative energy to the program, the players, to the coaching staff, everything. You’re not accomplishing anything. I always thought it was comical how people truly think they’re making a difference when you say things like that. It’s not for the better, that’s for sure.

damnnnnn Fartman is salty!!!! He sucked his last year here. I mean awful. Made some of the dumbest plays I’ve ever seen, and was a horrible statistical season for him. What do you expect out of a guy with multiple injuries tho, we have never been in his shoes. Hell im wasting words right now, literally, well not really, but makes people think they are smart when they say it. Like they just made some drop the mic point.

I try to shy away from critiquing guys for things other than basketball, I mean I could spend hours on how bad Hartman was and this fan base still gushed over him, which is a race thing but hell I don’t have time to go into this!!! Hartman is soft. Very soft. What I get out of that.

Oh and Romeo was bad at basketball his one year here and was a disappointment.

I like a whole lot of players that have played for IU, these two were for sure not on the list from a pure basketball standpoint.
 
damnnnnn Fartman is salty!!!! He sucked his last year here. I mean awful. Made some of the dumbest plays I’ve ever seen, and was a horrible statistical season for him. What do you expect out of a guy with multiple injuries tho, we have never been in his shoes. Hell im wasting words right now, literally, well not really, but makes people think they are smart when they say it. Like they just made some drop the mic point.

I try to shy away from critiquing guys for things other than basketball, I mean I could spend hours on how bad Hartman was and this fan base still gushed over him, which is a race thing but hell I don’t have time to go into this!!! Hartman is soft. Very soft. What I get out of that.

Oh and Romeo was bad at basketball his one year here and was a disappointment.

I like a whole lot of players that have played for IU, these two were for sure not on the list from a pure basketball standpoint.

You're the gift that keeps on giving....

Never change
 
he has a point, but he also sounds like he's 50 years old. Times are a changing, either keep up or shut up
 
You're the gift that keeps on giving....

Never change

I don’t shy away from it! I mean how do you not read that and think, what a girl. I mean this could probably get me sued, for putting these two in the same sentence.... but after watching this Michael Jordan documentary, could you imagine him talking like that. There are winners in sports and there are lots of nots. Prime example of not a winner.
 
I don’t shy away from it! I mean how do you not read that and think, what a girl. I mean this could probably get me sued, for putting these two in the same sentence.... but after watching this Michael Jordan documentary, could you imagine him talking like that. There are winners in sports and there are lots of nots. Prime example of not a winner.

Because your takes are preposterous and astoundingly bad.

You lost any and all credibility when you called Collin Hartman "soft". You're talking about a guy who suffered multiple season ending injuries, a guy who gave effort every time he was on the court, was asked to play out of position multiple times, did all the dirty work, and most importantly was a leading voice both on the court and in the locker room. Hartman could have very easily mailed it in due to all his injuries or could have grad transferred out of the program during the coaching change. Yet he didn't and gutted it out, that's not "soft" by any means. He's the epitome of a team player and what it means to play for IU. I wish IU had 13 Collin Hartman's on their roster every year.

Your comments about Romeo don't even deserve a response. Bad at basketball? It doesn't even warrant discussion.
 
Because your takes are preposterous and astoundingly bad.

You lost any and all credibility when you called Collin Hartman "soft". You're talking about a guy who suffered multiple season ending injuries, a guy who gave effort every time he was on the court, was asked to play out of position multiple times, did all the dirty work, and most importantly was a leading voice both on the court and in the locker room. Hartman could have very easily mailed it in due to all his injuries or could have grad transferred out of the program during the coaching change. Yet he didn't and gutted it out, that's not "soft" by any means. He's the epitome of a team player and what it means to play for IU. I wish IU had 13 Collin Hartman's on their roster every year.

Your comments about Romeo don't even deserve a response. Bad at basketball? It doesn't even warrant discussion.

well I hate participation trophies. Collin sucked at basketball. He made countless mental stupid mistakes. He was an awful shooter, and a horrendous defender. Romeo was the worst 3 point shooter statistically in the history of IU. We didn’t make the tourney hartmans last year or romeos one year. They were failure season and underachieving, just like both of those basketball players.

mentally Hartman is soft as a grape. He thought about quitting but mommy and daddy wouldn’t let him. Hell he wasn’t going to play for crean his last year, which I can’t really blame, but another sign of a mentally weak individual. Soft as hell.
 
Because your takes are preposterous and astoundingly bad.

You lost any and all credibility when you called Collin Hartman "soft". You're talking about a guy who suffered multiple season ending injuries, a guy who gave effort every time he was on the court, was asked to play out of position multiple times, did all the dirty work, and most importantly was a leading voice both on the court and in the locker room. Hartman could have very easily mailed it in due to all his injuries or could have grad transferred out of the program during the coaching change. Yet he didn't and gutted it out, that's not "soft" by any means. He's the epitome of a team player and what it means to play for IU. I wish IU had 13 Collin Hartman's on their roster every year.

Your comments about Romeo don't even deserve a response. Bad at basketball? It doesn't even warrant discussion.

Agree with your comments regarding Cav and Hartman and Romeo, but Hartman sounds butt hurt. It's not IN fans; it's fans. Irrational? Imagine if Hartman had gone to UK, KU, Duke or UNC? It would have been those wasted scholly comments x 1000, as it's going to be anywhere you play if they have a good and engaged fanbase. Your choice is: go to a school like that where they care, or go to a mid-major or football first and only school where they just don't give a crap about bball. I hope and assume that coaches and advisors are constantly telling new recruits and players to ignore the fan sites and should be even monitoring them and talking with guys who's names are coming up in a negative manner in this day of social media and connectedness. I'll back IU fans 100% of the time. Not perfect, but pretty damn good in my book. I think I've said it 100s of times by this point, but I think the fan interest and support for the program is phenomenal for the results we've had for the last 20+ years. And, oh yeah, if it weren't for IU fans, Hartman's comments would be playing to crickets.
 
ITH: On Romeo’s season … to this day if I tweet something about him, there will be a certain set of comments I’ll get that say he was a bust … I don’t know if it is just because the expectations were ridiculous, but do you think any of that is unfair? The way people, in a lot of ways, kind of ripped him for how he played at IU. The dude averaged 16 points with a torn ligament in his wrist. What did you think about that, especially as someone who is from Indiana, to see how some fans bailed on him?

Hartman: That’s the Indiana fanbase, in my opinion. You’ve got a bunch of people who never played the game, especially at this level. And you got a lot of people who didn’t even go to the university. That’s what makes Indiana fans so great is they are so passionate. But they are also very irrational. You have to put it in perspective. This kid is 18 years old. The thing is, he’s so young and when you get put on a pedestal like that and you have such high expectations and the stress … when fans turn their TV off, the game is over. But the dude still has to live with whatever the result was. He’s gotta go back to his dorm room. Not an apartment, not living on his own … he goes to a dorm room because he’s an 18 year old kid.

My freshman year, I almost transferred because the Indiana fanbase said I was a wasted scholarship, I didn’t deserve my scholarship, I shouldn’t be here, I’m worthless … I internalized that stuff as a freshman because I didn’t know any better. And my sophomore year on, I didn’t care what the fans thought or said. Because none of them had been in my shoes, ever. I stopped reading your guy’s (message) boards because people would comment and say whatever. I stopped reading all of that stuff. Because none of it was positive.

And so as a kid, it is hard to stay off of those platforms and it’s hard to not internalize those things because you are not emotionally mature enough to do it yet. I was blessed and lucky enough to have a support system that reinforced that I belonged there and that I could do it and that I was doing the right things and that it was going to take time. A lot of kids don’t have that.

Think about it this way. I always ask IU fans, do you have kids? Just imagine if you had thousands and thousands of people just destroying that person’s personal identity not just as a player, but them as a person. Destroying them on the most public of platforms, how would you feel for that person? It’s hard because people are irrational and don’t understand that. Yes, you can be passionate, but you have to be passionate in the right way. You can be critical, but you have to be critical in the right way. You can’t just throw out insults and throw out irrational comments when you have nothing to back it up. And you have no perspective because you are not in their day-to-day.

Even you guys in the media room have more perspective because you are at least talking to the coaches and having interviews with us. You guys turn off the recorders and we have a personal relationship like I do with you and Zach (Osterman) and Kyle (Neddenriep) and all of those guys, it’s different. You guys know us on more of a personal level than fans do. So they don’t understand that kids read that stuff. And they take it to heart. And their parents take it to heart and it pisses them off, too. And it really accomplishes nothing.

Because I’m going to tell you right now, all of these fans tweeting at the coaches tweeting at the coaches saying ‘you need to play so and so,’ they’re not reading that. (Laughing.) Coach Miller is getting paid a lot of money. Do you think he’s not going to do his best? Do you think he’s going to listen to some guy on some message board or tweeting him that’s never played the game before at this level? Do you think he’s going to listen to that? No. So you are literally wasting words. Wasting your time and energy and all of that. I just think it is comical that people think they’re going to make a difference by doing that. All you are doing is bringing negative energy to the program, the players, to the coaching staff, everything. You’re not accomplishing anything. I always thought it was comical how people truly think they’re making a difference when you say things like that. It’s not for the better, that’s for sure.
That’s a lot of whining for an Indiana basketball player. There are tens of thousands of kids that would happily sit on the end of bench just to put on the candy stripes. You can tell that Hartman was coached by Crean who was always insecure about the criticism from the fans and media. Miller knows it’s part of the job, and his players follow his lead.
 
Agree with your comments regarding Cav and Hartman and Romeo, but Hartman sounds butt hurt. It's not IN fans; it's fans. Irrational? Imagine if Hartman had gone to UK, KU, Duke or UNC? It would have been those wasted scholly comments x 1000, as it's going to be anywhere you play if they have a good and engaged fanbase. Your choice is: go to a school like that where they care, or go to a mid-major or football first and only school where they just don't give a crap about bball. I hope and assume that coaches and advisors are constantly telling new recruits and players to ignore the fan sites and should be even monitoring them and talking with guys who's names are coming up in a negative manner in this day of social media and connectedness. I'll back IU fans 100% of the time. Not perfect, but pretty damn good in my book. I think I've said it 100s of times by this point, but I think the fan interest and support for the program is phenomenal for the results we've had for the last 20+ years. And, oh yeah, if it weren't for IU fans, Hartman's comments would be playing to crickets.

I don't think he sounds butt hurt, just telling it like it is. And he's absolutely right. Every fan base has their delusional bunch, IU is no different. Cavanagh case in point. He's an idiot. "Romeo was bad at basketball" "Collin Hartman is soft". Granted those are obviously opinions and ones he's certainly entitled too. But those kinds of statements are 10x above Cavanagh's pay grade. He's in no position to assess any kind of talent.

Sure I wish current players and parents of current players would stay off message boards where emotions are always high, but Hartman is now an adult and free to speak clearly. I trust what a former IU basketball player has to say in regards to the current culture at IU than some dipshit like Cavanagh who thinks he has the answers to everything.
 
damnnnnn Fartman is salty!!!! He sucked his last year here. I mean awful. Made some of the dumbest plays I’ve ever seen, and was a horrible statistical season for him. What do you expect out of a guy with multiple injuries tho, we have never been in his shoes. Hell im wasting words right now, literally, well not really, but makes people think they are smart when they say it. Like they just made some drop the mic point.

I try to shy away from critiquing guys for things other than basketball, I mean I could spend hours on how bad Hartman was and this fan base still gushed over him, which is a race thing but hell I don’t have time to go into this!!! Hartman is soft. Very soft. What I get out of that.

Oh and Romeo was bad at basketball his one year here and was a disappointment.

I like a whole lot of players that have played for IU, these two were for sure not on the list from a pure basketball standpoint.
Your response was as vapid as the original post. Maybe worse. Nice effort.
 
I don't think he sounds butt hurt, just telling it like it is. And he's absolutely right. Every fan base has their delusional bunch, IU is no different. Cavanagh case in point. He's an idiot. "Romeo was bad at basketball" "Collin Hartman is soft". Granted those are obviously opinions and ones he's certainly entitled too. But those kinds of statements are 10x above Cavanagh's pay grade. He's in no position to assess any kind of talent.

Sure I wish current players and parents of current players would stay off message boards where emotions are always high, but Hartman is now an adult and free to speak clearly. I trust what a former IU basketball player has to say in regards to the current culture at IU than some dipshit like Cavanagh who thinks he has the answers to everything.

I trust facts, and base my opinion on them. He was bad at basketball his last year here and they missed the tournament. He shot 24% from three his last year, at least he only took 66 so he wasn’t considered a high volume shooter, like his main man romeo. He whines. He wanted to quit countless times. Could not take fan criticism. Was not a leader on the court , far from it. Can’t make bad play after play and expect anyone to take you serious. That is not someone I want to be in the foxhole with.

My opinions I can back up with lists of facts. You just are a fan boi. Big Difference.
 
Hartman was a nice player for IU. He really helped when he was healthy. I liked the kid.
But he wasn't around when IU was led by Knight and thus, he doesn't know how ridiculous the comments sound relative to how things used to be.
Romeo didn't help IU win and he didn't stick around long enough to make an impact on history at IU despite having top 5% talent level for all IU players. It was a wasted opportunity to be better and to do more.
That is his legacy. He had his own destiny in his hands and he walked away from it.
Then he sat all year in Boston. His choice, but what a waste.
 
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Hartman was a nice player for IU. He really helped when he was healthy. I liked the kid.
But he wasn't around when IU was led by Knight and thus, he doesn't know how ridiculous the comments sound relative to how things used to be.
Romeo didn't help IU win and he didn't stick around long enough to make an impact on history at IU despite having top 5% talent level for all IU players. It was a wasted opportunity to be better and to do more.
That is his legacy. He had his own destiny in his hands and he walked away from it.
Then he sat all year in Boston. His choice, but what a waste.

Genuine question, do you feel the same way about Eric Gordon? He too played at IU for one year, didn't leave a lasting impact, played for a program riddled with scandal yet is universally loved by just about every IU fan I know? I don't get the angst many have towards Romeo? Did people really expect him to stick around all 4 years? Did you really expect him to put IU on his back and take them to a F4? Hell the top two players in Romeo's class (Zion and Barrett) couldn't even do that at Duke.

Reality is that Romeo didn't play on a very good IU team. After you got past Juwan Morgan and Romeo, not only the talent, but the experience level dropped off significantly. Coupled that with a team still trying to find their way with a second year coach implementing a completely new system and a lot of key injuries during crucial parts of the season, you saw the result. Obviously missing the tournament was frustrating and should have never have happened, but think it's entirely ridiculous to pit IU's struggles on Romeo. He has become the scapegoat for that season. And that's exactly what Collin Hartman is echoing in his interview.
 
Because I’m going to tell you right now, all of these fans tweeting at the coaches tweeting at the coaches saying ‘you need to play so and so,’ they’re not reading that. (Laughing.) Coach Miller is getting paid a lot of money. Do you think he’s not going to do his best? Do you think he’s going to listen to some guy on some message board or tweeting him that’s never played the game before at this level? Do you think he’s going to listen to that? No. So you are literally wasting words. Wasting your time and energy and all of that. I just think it is comical that people think they’re going to make a difference by doing that. All you are doing is bringing negative energy to the program, the players, to the coaching staff, everything. You’re not accomplishing anything. I always thought it was comical how people truly think they’re making a difference when you say things like that. It’s not for the better, that’s for sure.

While I agree with the basic gist of what Collin's saying, it doesn't get anybody off the hook -- not the players and certainly not the coaching staff.

He's undeniably right that virtually none of the critics (or the non-critics, for that matter) played the game at the college level. I'd guess that relatively few even played it at the high school level. And I don't think it serves a player's or coach's interest to pay any attention to the technical criticisms of people who couldn't come anywhere close to doing what they do better than they do it.

I'm not a very good golfer. Take a hundred people who play somewhat regularly, and I'm probably around or near the median handicap. Far be it for me as an avid fan of the Masters to tell Jordan Spieth why he infamously put two in the drink on the 12th at Augusta to card a quadruple bogey after leading by 5 on Sunday afternoon or what he could do to avoid ever doing it again.

I'm not qualified to give him that kind of advice. He is not only a much, much better golfer than I am in any circumstance, he also knows what it's like to play it on a Sunday at Augusta. Of course he shouldn't listen to any critic other than those who actually have that rare sort of credibility. If Nicklaus offered him something, I'm sure he'd listen -- and with good reason. Me and millions more like me, not so much.

But that doesn't mean it wasn't easy for me to see -- and say -- that he blew it.

To that extent, Collin is right. But that doesn't mean that fans (or boosters) who couldn't play or coach basketball or any other sports as well as the guys who do it should just write their annual checks, buy their season tickets, hotdogs, and team swag, and shut their pieholes when their favorite teams are producing poor or middling results.

I've become pretty critical of Archie Miller. That's not because I think I'm better qualified than he is to, say, design and execute a half-court offense or determine optimum player rotations. It's because it's his job to produce results at a level we can and should expect -- or at least demonstrate sufficient progress towards that goal in a reasonable amount of time.

And I don't think he has. Him saying "you couldn't do it any better, Mr. Armchair Quarterback" would obviously be correct. But, then, I never applied for his job and wouldn't have been hired if I had.
 
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I don't think he sounds butt hurt, just telling it like it is. And he's absolutely right. Every fan base has their delusional bunch, IU is no different. Cavanagh case in point. He's an idiot. "Romeo was bad at basketball" "Collin Hartman is soft". Granted those are obviously opinions and ones he's certainly entitled too. But those kinds of statements are 10x above Cavanagh's pay grade. He's in no position to assess any kind of talent.

Sure I wish current players and parents of current players would stay off message boards where emotions are always high, but Hartman is now an adult and free to speak clearly. I trust what a former IU basketball player has to say in regards to the current culture at IU than some dipshit like Cavanagh who thinks he has the answers to everything.

He is right.... but my point is it's not IU fans, it's fans of any program that care about "their" sport, and many (UK bball, and AL, Auburn and Clemson football for instance) are far less forgiving and more rabid in my experience. So, Collin is complaining about the nature of fans at a program that cares deeply about basketball. It would have been easy to avoid that... go to Auburn, Clemson or Mississippi and play basketball, or at E Michigan or most of the rest of the mid major schools, and guess what: they'd be far less critical because they wouldn't care, nor would they show up, nor would the still care about a former players opinion on anything after they're done playing. Is Collin still using his IU career as a platform (I don't know what he does, but I do know he's active on social media and around the program) for his opinions, contacts or business? If he is, that doesn't happen at those other programs, so, yes it's a double edged sword, but on the whole I think it's far more positive than negative.
 
He lost me at the end:

“All you are doing is bringing negative energy to the program, the players, to the coaching staff, everything. You’re not accomplishing anything. I always thought it was comical how people truly think they’re making a difference when you say things like that. It’s not for the better, that’s for sure.”


fans complain. They second guess coaches. They post stuff on message boards. Who says anyone is trying to make a difference? Uh, yes they ARE accomplishing something. They are venting, and adding entertainment value to a meaningless fan forum
 
mentally Hartman is soft as a grape.

Then relatively speaking, mentally you'd rate right there with compost, or perhaps baby stool.

Good bet that no one was more disappointed with CH's final Season than CH. Painful to watch at times because he really contributed some the year before, but far from cause for your puerile declarations.
 
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He is right.... but my point is it's not IU fans, it's fans of any program that care about "their" sport, and many (UK bball, and AL, Auburn and Clemson football for instance) are far less forgiving and more rabid in my experience. So, Collin is complaining about the nature of fans at a program that cares deeply about basketball. It would have been easy to avoid that... go to Auburn, Clemson or Mississippi and play basketball, or at E Michigan or most of the rest of the mid major schools, and guess what: they'd be far less critical because they wouldn't care, nor would they show up, nor would the still care about a former players opinion on anything after they're done playing. Is Collin still using his IU career as a platform (I don't know what he does, but I do know he's active on social media and around the program) for his opinions, contacts or business? If he is, that doesn't happen at those other programs, so, yes it's a double edged sword, but on the whole I think it's far more positive than negative.

There aren't many sports fans who are both passionate and passive in the face of failure (or mediocrity).

And, like I said, I agree with Collin to an extent. I would never say that I would be a better GM than Ryan Grigson was. But I don't feel the least bit out of line saying that he was a terrible GM.

And that's because all of these people produce results that ultimately find their way into the W/L column. And GMs, along with coaches, are the ones ultimately responsible for how those columns pan out. He could defend himself by asking me how much I ever played or coached football, but doing that wouldn't really rehabilitate his legacy.
 
Then relatively speaking, mentally you'd rate right there with compost, or perhaps baby stool.

Good bet that no one was more disappointed with CH's final Season than CH. Painful to watch at times because he really contributed some the year before, but far from cause for your puerile declarations.

shit son. Try telling me I can’t do something in life. I’ve told a lot of people I’d be better then them at their job, and I have been. I don’t quit on things that I have passion for. Go down with the ship. Hence IU b-ball.
 
He is right.... but my point is it's not IU fans, it's fans of any program that care about "their" sport, and many (UK bball, and AL, Auburn and Clemson football for instance) are far less forgiving and more rabid in my experience. So, Collin is complaining about the nature of fans at a program that cares deeply about basketball. It would have been easy to avoid that... go to Auburn, Clemson or Mississippi and play basketball, or at E Michigan or most of the rest of the mid major schools, and guess what: they'd be far less critical because they wouldn't care, nor would they show up, nor would the still care about a former players opinion on anything after they're done playing. Is Collin still using his IU career as a platform (I don't know what he does, but I do know he's active on social media and around the program) for his opinions, contacts or business? If he is, that doesn't happen at those other programs, so, yes it's a double edged sword, but on the whole I think it's far more positive than negative.

Second guessing coaching tactics and being disappointed about results is one thing and I'm sure Hartman (now a fan) will say the same thing. Saying someone like Romeo is "bad at basketball" or telling Hartman "he sucks and needs to transfer" (mentioned in interview) is another. That's not being passionate. That's what he's alluding too. That's what he's talking about. Those are two completely different things. I have no problems with those are criticize Archie and question the direction of the program.
 
Second guessing coaching tactics and being disappointed about results is one thing and I'm sure Hartman (now a fan) will say the same thing. Saying someone like Romeo is "bad at basketball" or telling Hartman "he sucks and needs to transfer" (mentioned in interview) is another. That's not being passionate. That's what he's alluding too. That's what he's talking about. Those are two completely different things. I have no problems with those are criticize Archie and question the direction of the program.

Bingo. That’s right — in addition, most sports fans don’t possess a whole lot of technical knowledge.

I don’t know enough about orthopedic surgery to tell my surgeon what he should or shouldn’t do. But I will eventually know whether or not he improved my quality of life to the degree he suggested he could.
 
shit son. Try telling me I can’t do something in life. I’ve told a lot of people I’d be better then them at their job, and I have been. I don’t quit on things that I have passion for. Go down with the ship. Hence IU b-ball.
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shit son. Try telling me I can’t do something in life. I’ve told a lot of people I’d be better then them at their job, and I have been. I don’t quit on things that I have passion for. Go down with the ship. Hence IU b-ball.

you can't STFU!
 
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IU fans are largely clowns. They put unrealistic expectations on kids all the time. Romeo was just the latest victim. If they’re not National POY and win a title then they’re a bust.

Meanwhile they’ll give average coaches 10 year passes before seeing the light. It’s embarrassing really. It’s hard to even tell people you’re an IU fan these days because people associate you with all the clowns.
 
IU fans are largely clowns. They put unrealistic expectations on kids all the time. Romeo was just the latest victim. If they’re not National POY and win a title then they’re a bust.

Meanwhile they’ll give average coaches 10 year passes before seeing the light. It’s embarrassing really. It’s hard to even tell people you’re an IU fan these days because people associate you with all the clowns.

At least we don't have to claim you. That would be humiliating.
 
Second guessing coaching tactics and being disappointed about results is one thing and I'm sure Hartman (now a fan) will say the same thing. Saying someone like Romeo is "bad at basketball" or telling Hartman "he sucks and needs to transfer" (mentioned in interview) is another. That's not being passionate. That's what he's alluding too. That's what he's talking about. Those are two completely different things. I have no problems with those are criticize Archie and question the direction of the program.

Whatever. You can complain about it, but it just goes with the turf. It's human nature and how fans are. It doesn't make it right, but its a WPP. It's why there's a different standard for public figures and those in the spotlight. No one made him accept a scholarship to play bball at IU but when he did, knowingly or not, he accepted a certain amount of that, even if it is BS, and mostly it's not, and is good and beneficial. His family, friends and mostly coaches should have been preparing him for it and telling him to ignore it. Do a quick google search of Collin and you'll see how detrimental his affiliation with IU has been and how he's using it professionally. Again, goes with the turf; you take the bad with the good. If you're 8, I get that it might hurt your feelings, but by 18 even if it does sting, you should be able to accept it for what it is: public BS.
 
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He lost me at the end:

“All you are doing is bringing negative energy to the program, the players, to the coaching staff, everything. You’re not accomplishing anything. I always thought it was comical how people truly think they’re making a difference when you say things like that. It’s not for the better, that’s for sure.”


fans complain. They second guess coaches. They post stuff on message boards. Who says anyone is trying to make a difference? Uh, yes they ARE accomplishing something. They are venting, and adding entertainment value to a meaningless fan forum

He was specifically commenting on when fans send DM's via Twitter or try reach out to CAM and give advice or critiques.That is the definition of wasted energy. Of course CAM isn't looking at that crap. It's harder for an 18 or 19 year old kid to not get drawn into that stuff though. I have no problem with critiquing players and coaches on message boards, but when you reach out directly that makes you look like a moran.
 
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Whatever. You can complain about it, but it just goes with the turf. It's human nature and how fans are. It doesn't make it right, but its a WPP. It's why there's a different standard for public figures and those in the spotlight. No one made him accept a scholarship to play bball at IU but when he did, knowingly or not, he accepted a certain amount of that, even if it is BS, and mostly it's not, and is good and beneficial. His family, friends and mostly coaches should have been preparing him for it and telling him to ignore it. Do a quick google search of Collin and you'll see how detrimental his affiliation with IU has been and how he's using it professionally. Again, goes with the turf; you take the bad with the good. If you're 8, I get that it might hurt your feelings, but by 18 even if it does sting, you should be able to accept it for what it is: public BS.

It's still irrational for a grown man to tweet a college kid that he sucks at basketball. His point still stands. What good does that do anybody? That's not an excuse for being passionate. It's just dumb. Obviously he grew thicker skin and ignored it, it still doesn't make it right or justifiable.
 
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It's still irrational for a grown man to tweet a college kid that he sucks at basketball. His point still stands. What good does that do anybody? That's not an excuse for being passionate. It's just dumb. Obviously he grew thicker skin and ignored it, it still doesn't make it right or justifiable.

No it doesn't but you see how much good telling Cav he's f'd has, right? You and Collin can worry about what he and all the crazies say, but for me and what I'd tell my kids, there are lots of nuts out there, worry about yourself and move on and just ignore them. The world is not fair, so I just don't sweat it that much. You want my solution? Don't get on twitter if it bothers you. I'm not on it, and don't miss it one bit... nor do I bite my nails worrying about what others say on it. I was on Facebook for about 2 weeks when I recognized it was BS and a bunch of crap I didn't want to deal with, so I don't. For all the trauma and scarring the Twitter abuse caused Collin he still seems to manage to be pretty active on it, so I guess he's dealt with it.
 
He was specifically commenting on when fans send DM's via Twitter or try reach out to CAM and give advice or critiques.That is the definition of wasted energy. Of course CAM isn't looking at that crap. It's harder for an 18 or 19 year old kid to not get drawn into that stuff though. I have no problem with critiquing players and coaches on message boards, but when you reach out directly that makes you look like a moran.

It’s probably not a good idea to spell the word moron wrong while insulting others’ intelligence.
 
I don’t shy away from it! I mean how do you not read that and think, what a girl. I mean this could probably get me sued, for putting these two in the same sentence.... but after watching this Michael Jordan documentary, could you imagine him talking like that. There are winners in sports and there are lots of nots. Prime example of not a winner.
How do I not read your post and think oh what an assh*#e. I would say you are right up there with the non winners yourself. You are a salty old dude that needs to root for a different team. Unbelievable that you didn’t even get what he was trying to say. But I am sure you are one of the ones he is talking about. Never played college ball or had any high level experience but you can sure cut down people with the best of them. You are one person I don’t mind ignoring. Thanks for finally making me realize you are the loser not Hartman. Why don’t you maybe judge yourself before you judge others.
 
How do I not read your post and think oh what an assh*#e. I would say you are right up there with the non winners yourself. You are a salty old dude that needs to root for a different team. Unbelievable that you didn’t even get what he was trying to say. But I am sure you are one of the ones he is talking about. Never played college ball or had any high level experience but you can sure cut down people with the best of them. You are one person I don’t mind ignoring. Thanks for finally making me realize you are the loser not Hartman. Why don’t you maybe judge yourself before you judge others.

Cavanaugh =
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How do I not read your post and think oh what an assh*#e. I would say you are right up there with the non winners yourself. You are a salty old dude that needs to root for a different team. Unbelievable that you didn’t even get what he was trying to say. But I am sure you are one of the ones he is talking about. Never played college ball or had any high level experience but you can sure cut down people with the best of them. You are one person I don’t mind ignoring. Thanks for finally making me realize you are the loser not Hartman. Why don’t you maybe judge yourself before you judge others.

He's exactly the kind of guy Hartman was talking about. He's the kind of guy that stalked and tweeted at Romeo while in high school begging him to attend IU. He's the kind of guy that showed up at his announcement ceremony and waited in line to take a picture and receive and autograph so one day he could tell all his friends how they were "boyz". And he's most definitely the type of guy who completely gaslighted Romeo because he feels entitled to IU's success.

He's the jack of all trades. A grade A tool bag.
 
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