Must outperform expectations
- Thread starter snowling
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And players don’t improve one year to the next.
And coaches don’t learn and improve.
And injuries don’t make a difference.
And schedules coupled with other teams injuries don’t matter
And team chemistry doesn’t matter
And you don’t know what the hell you are talking about!
So is picking PU 4th in the B1G realistic after losing the long range bombers Carsen Edwards and Cline?
They have a really nice returning forward core, but it seems far fetched that they could execute at all like last season without some high level guards. Seems over-rated a bit but it is fine to put them there- it makes it easier if IU is the underdog.
People are down on Justin however I think he really improved last year. Too much was expected too soon and now with some more size Smith can focus on what he is really good at. Hoping this is a big year for him.
So... if we haven't even seen Hunter, how can you state "Smith is better in every single aspect"? That's the whole point. Hunter is unknown. He could be better than Smith at some things, or he could be worse. Stating he is worse than Smith at everything is just as stupid as stating that this is the end of the Miller era. You really know nothing.
I’d hate to hear what you’d think of Archie’s results if you were capable of being objective.
Would you deem Purdue’s season last year as a successful one? Were they good or great?
ok dude, I've bit my tongue many times because I can't stand these internet chicken fights. But you just contradicted your own logic. You claim IU will regress this year simply because of talent they just lost (Romeo, JW) yet think Purdue will not regress, while losing the very talent that carried them last year (and the heartbeat of their team in Edwards)- simply because of their 'track record'.
It's obvious you're obsessed with CAM failing more so than seeing IU succeed with him as coach, and everyone's entitled to their opinion on who the right coach of this program should be. But your logic above fails the simple properties of the transitive theory (A=B, B=C, then A=C).
I think Purdue will have some issues this year, as they lost the overwhelming majority of their long range shooting. Not to mention losing two 4 yr senior guards in the starting lineup, something that is beyond valuation for a team.
This yr's IU team is a mystery to me right now. I'm going to withhold judgement until mid January. Seemed to work well last year (although the results sucked).
correction- Edwards actually was a junior....but let's be honest, his experience will be impossible for CMP to replace this year. And without Kline going ape$hite against UT they don't advance. replacing veteran guard leadership is...well, look at IU since Yogi left....huge vacuum.
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Because they are both deceased as I am 57 years old. What is your excuse for being the biggest dipshit this board has ever seen?
Another time where your logic doesn't make sense. Based on what you are saying (re: Smith vs Hunter), at this point last season McRoberts was better than Romeo, because we had not seen Romeo play at this level. The fact is, Smith's progress since last season and Hunter's status are both unknown to all of us on this board. Broad sweeping statements about the topic mean nothing at this time. Check back in January after we've gone through non-Conf and some B1G road games.
I agree. Purdue had a very good season. You mentioned ‘“good but never great is not success.’” I thought Purdue was successful last season. Your statement didn’t quite add up for me. I might be taking it out of context. Apologies if so.
That’s fair. This started with me replying to someone claiming Hunter will be better than Romeo.
Wow! You are truly amazing! Now you can tell the age of someone whom you have never met or seen in person. Sorry to burst your bubble dumbass, but I am 57 and will be 58 in January.
I have guarded hopes for Hunter but am realistic...that's why I say, wait until we get some B1G games under our belt. After last season, I'm not going to get too excited early until it looks like we can compete in every B1G game and the team looks like it wants to be there and win. Some of the effort during the losing streak last year was concerning and hopefully has been resolved.
Overall Success is winning championships.
NCAA Championship
B1G Championship
And Good + by winning minor championships:
Holiday Tournament Championships
NIT Preseason or NIT Postseason Championship
Success is relative to preseason expectations - picked 11th in B1G but finishing above that and making the Postseason would be a relative success. Good but not Great season. But something to hopefully build on for the future.
Is it overall success - No. But it would be success story in relation to early season low expectations. A Good season, not Great. You have to win something to be Great. There is a difference between having success, and being good or great. Success is in relation to pre-season expectations. Good is winning big but not winning championships. Great is winning Championships. Example: The New York Yankees have had 27 great teams. 27 World Champions, 27 World Series Championships. And a lot of "Good" teams that did not win a Title.
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The problem with the “objective” position you have taken is that you are statistically right. The two possible realities are (1) Archie builds an elite program and the other is (2) the field winning. You have taken the field. Statistically, no coach is favored to be successful. This board is for fans that root for Indiana to build it the right way and beat the odds. That’s what makes a championship so great. You forfeited your loyalties to the program years ago. Why stay on this board, and remind everyone what we already know.
I am guardedly optimistic on Hunter coming back from a major health issue that wiped out his entire initial Freshman Season.
But Hunter's basketball skill level and talent when healthy are not a secret, and not a complete unknown. It is unknown how well Hunter will play this season coming off a major health setback and recovery, yes. But what his ceiling is if fully healthy is not a complete unknown.
But Hunter's basketball skill level and talent when healthy are not a secret, and not a complete unknown. It is unknown how well Hunter will play this season coming off a major health setback and recovery, yes. But what his ceiling is if fully healthy is not a complete unknown.
By PU realistic expectations of never winning a NCAA championship, you could call last season's PU team a success. Very Good is overall success for PU because they basically reached their ceiling. They over-achieved by PU standards.
Logically using the English language, reaching your ceiling is not over-achieving it is achieving as it is within the expected space of accomplishment. Going past your expected ceiling is over-achieving. Language counts.
However, your definition of ceiling is also questionable. The ceiling for any team is winning a national championship. Until the 1980s, neither Georgetown or Villanova had won a NC. But then they did. They did not have a ceiling preventing them from doing so prior to that. The same comment can be made of the UCLA teams prior to the 1960s. Did Loyola of Chicago have a ceiling prior to 1963? The 1963 team would argue strongly that ceiling did not exist for them.
I don't know about performing above expectations, but Green and Smith need to perform TO expectations.
As important as Smith and Green are to our success, the play of Hunter and TJD will be very important. We haven't seen them play yet, but they have the potential to become very good. We don't know how fast that will happen. One or both could become major contributors by the conference schedule.
I used to say the same thing. It’s funny and all but at this point we’re just as bad as they are. It’s been 30 years. Recruits today weren’t even alive the last time we made it past the Sweet 16. It’s pathetic honestly. I don’t think we should be arrogantly looking down on anyone besides maybe Ball St or Valpo.
People on this board don’t care about statistics when they take the field against UK. Or when they claim we’re on Virginia’s trajectory when we’re far more statistically likely on Illinois’s trajectory.
And I’m not taking the field. I’m not saying championship or bust. Being one of the top 68 teams in America is a far reach from winning a title.
No you’re not. You talk like my grandson. No 57 year old is as immature and emotional as you are. You’re not fooling anyone.
Smith is frustrating but brings experience to the table for the team. He knows what he has to work on for his game to improve. Let's hope he puts in the work to do so.
I hope Hunter is the next coming but want to see what he does in the NCAA before making huge claims off his HS You Tube videos. The high praise about his practice last season does give reason to have a lot of optimism.
IMO, there is room for both Hunter and Smith players to be solid rotation players. If that turns out to be the case who cares which is the better of the 2 and who starts or not. I'm glad IU has both Smith and Hunter.
I'm not so confident on Anderson but never say never. He was really lost on the court last year and that kind of trumps anything he did in HS. With Galloway and Leal coming, I feel he in a similar position that Curtis Jones was in especially with Hunter and possibly Franklin getting playing time before him.
I hope Hunter is the next coming but want to see what he does in the NCAA before making huge claims off his HS You Tube videos. The high praise about his practice last season does give reason to have a lot of optimism.
IMO, there is room for both Hunter and Smith players to be solid rotation players. If that turns out to be the case who cares which is the better of the 2 and who starts or not. I'm glad IU has both Smith and Hunter.
I'm not so confident on Anderson but never say never. He was really lost on the court last year and that kind of trumps anything he did in HS. With Galloway and Leal coming, I feel he in a similar position that Curtis Jones was in especially with Hunter and possibly Franklin getting playing time before him.
A mid major who has never been to NCAA Tournament does not have a realistic ceiling as a National Campionship. Their realistic ceiling is a NCAA Tournament bid and catching fire and winning a game or two. Winning a title is unrealistic. Just as it is for PU. PU's odds are better than a mid major with no NCAA experience, but also lower than a team that realistically can stack enough talent in multiple classes to win the National Championship. The head coach is a big part of those realistic expectations and odds to win. Example Al McGuire was a superstar head coach at mid-major Marquette, but with Al McGuire Marquette was an annual top 20 national basketball power, complete with nationally ranked recruits with high level talent, primarily from New York and Chicago. With the one and done rule changes that are coming, the top end talent will mostly be removed from college basketball altogether. These future NBA availability rule changes to college basketball will affect the available high end talent pool and give PU better odds of raising their ceiling after the NBA one and done rule is changed.
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Interesting. What did you think of Painter when he took is team to the quarterfinals of the CBI, followed by a 12th place, no tournament season? Most Purdue Fans I know thought Painter's time came and went with the "Perfect Storm" class. They really felt buyer's remorse on Matty's big paycheck.
I believe Anderson and Franklin will have a bit of a PT battle and it will revolve around outside shooting and defense. Franklin is a better defender, but as of now I'd give Anderson a slight edge as a shooter because he releases quickly and is strong enough to have really deep range. It may be the battle for the final spot in the line up. 9-10 will play, #11 may not play much unless there are injuries.
I agree your loyalties should be to the program. You do that by holding IU to a standard of excellence. Not by making excuses. Blind loyalty is why IU has been awful the past 2 decades.
To be clear, this doesn’t mean someone has to hold the opinion that Archie is train wreck or needs to be fired today. It does mean you should want him sent packing next year if the team doesn’t take a big step forward.
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Does complaining incessantly about something over which you have no control qualify as holding them to a standard of excellence? The administration & BoT need to hold them to a standard of excellence, fans need to root for the team. Or be a bitch.
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