Moscow Marge vs Speaker Johnson

[cosmickid]

I didn't come up with that nickname for MGT, that was recently-retired R-CO Ken Buck who coined the title of Moscow Marjorie. I must admit I don't really grasp why some within Ultra MAGA are so violently opposed to sending aid to Ukraine? But both MTG and Matty Gaetz (who was determined to eliminate McCarthy over MCarthy's unwillingness to halt the (ongoing) ethics inquiry into Gaetz), are apparently willing to charge up that hill...

It's certainly a stance popular with Russian State TV ie... Putin, which might give me pause if that was my side.And echoing Russian propaganda? That too seems like a fact that would make someone question their choices

I don't agree with Johnson on much, but here he's doing the right thing. Nonsense from our own pro-Putin apologists aside, Russia has been the aggressor in this war from the outset. And if anybody really believes Putin's territorial ambitions are limited to occupying Eastern Ukraine, then I've got a deed to some ocean front property in AZ, that you can purchase for a song. (sorry )

 

[Morrison]

 

[snarlcakes]

I didn't come up with that nickname for MGT, that was recently-retired R-CO Ken Buck who coined the title of Moscow Marjorie. I must admit I don't really grasp why some within Ultra MAGA are so violently opposed to sending aid to Ukraine?

Unlike yourself some people aren’t thieving twats is why we’re against it.

 

[UncleMark]

Unlike yourself some people aren’t thieving twats is why we’re against it.

Cos is a thieving twat? How so?

 

[IUCrazy2]

Unlike yourself some people aren’t thieving twats is why we’re against it.

I am not even totally against it, but from where I sit there is no real plan other than dumping money into the hole hoping Russia eventually gives up. The GOP supposedly used to stand for fiscal responsibility as well, funny nobody is bringing that up as we pull out the credit card for yet another conflict.

I have yet to hear an argument that the Ukrainians can take back the territory they lost. I am being told that they can't even produce enough of their own bullets to continue fighting past the end of the year. That isn't a winning hand.

We have to accept that in some instances we are not going to be able to stop all the bad guys everywhere. COVID and the absolutely stupid response to it (and all of the insane spending associated) pushed us off a fiscal cliff. Everything domestically is more expensive now and burning the midnight oil running the printing presses is not doing anything to help that. If funding Ukraine is so important, raise taxes to do it. Iraq and Afghanistan were trillion dollar failures. We have already supplied $70 billion in aid to Ukraine. The proposal is $65 billion more. The Euros have collectively provided $90 billion. And after all that aid the Ukrainians were losing ground.

So I ask, what domestic program would the Democrats like to give up to cover the $65 billion. If it is that important, tell your constituents what they should do without in order to pay that. If not that, raise taxes to cover it. Russia had control of much more than Ukraine for over 50 years and we got by just fine. Maybe it is time to face reality and sit down at the table to end it. Then we discuss defensive measures going forward.

 

[snarlcakes]

Cos is a thieving twat? How so?

Anyone advocating for it without accompanying cuts or tax increases is a thieving twat.

 

[snarlcakes]

I am not even totally against it, but from where I sit there is no real plan other than dumping money into the hole hoping Russia eventually gives up. The GOP supposedly used to stand for fiscal responsibility as well, funny nobody is bringing that up as we pull out the credit card for yet another conflict.

I have yet to hear an argument that the Ukrainians can take back the territory they lost. I am being told that they can't even produce enough of their own bullets to continue fighting past the end of the year. That isn't a winning hand.

We have to accept that in some instances we are not going to be able to stop all the bad guys everywhere. COVID and the absolutely stupid response to it (and all of the insane spending associated) pushed us off a fiscal cliff. Everything domestically is more expensive now and burning the midnight oil running the printing presses is not doing anything to help that. If funding Ukraine is so important, raise taxes to do it. Iraq and Afghanistan were trillion dollar failures. We have already supplied $70 billion in aid to Ukraine. The proposal is $65 billion more. The Euros have collectively provided $90 billion. And after all that aid the Ukrainians were losing ground.

So I ask, what domestic program would the Democrats like to give up to cover the $65 billion. If it is that important, tell your constituents what they should do without in order to pay that. If not that, raise taxes to cover it. Russia had control of much more than Ukraine for over 50 years and we got by just fine. Maybe it is time to face reality and sit down at the table to end it. Then we discuss defensive measures going forward.

The problem is the voting populace is too stupid or tribal to have adult conversations. The media frames it as MAGA loves Putin and people lap it up. Cosmic post was an example of it.

I don’t have a strong opinion one way or the other with the war. You bring up good points. My issue is it’s immoral and should be illegal for the Government to print and steal the money to fund their wars or any government program.

 

[DDE-6-20-23]

Hmmm

 

[Joe_Hoopsier]

Hmmm

My dad used to have a coffee cream dispenser, that looked exactly like those.

 

[IUNorth]

Hmmm

This falls under...looks hot, but proceed with caution...she could be tucking something in those jeans.

Oh, and regardless, she's waayyyyy off on the crazy/hot scale.

 

[Bloom.]

I am not even totally against it, but from where I sit there is no real plan other than dumping money into the hole hoping Russia eventually gives up. The GOP supposedly used to stand for fiscal responsibility as well, funny nobody is bringing that up as we pull out the credit card for yet another conflict.

I have yet to hear an argument that the Ukrainians can take back the territory they lost. I am being told that they can't even produce enough of their own bullets to continue fighting past the end of the year. That isn't a winning hand.

We have to accept that in some instances we are not going to be able to stop all the bad guys everywhere. COVID and the absolutely stupid response to it (and all of the insane spending associated) pushed us off a fiscal cliff. Everything domestically is more expensive now and burning the midnight oil running the printing presses is not doing anything to help that. If funding Ukraine is so important, raise taxes to do it. Iraq and Afghanistan were trillion dollar failures. We have already supplied $70 billion in aid to Ukraine. The proposal is $65 billion more. The Euros have collectively provided $90 billion. And after all that aid the Ukrainians were losing ground.

So I ask, what domestic program would the Democrats like to give up to cover the $65 billion. If it is that important, tell your constituents what they should do without in order to pay that. If not that, raise taxes to cover it. Russia had control of much more than Ukraine for over 50 years and we got by just fine. Maybe it is time to face reality and sit down at the table to end it. Then we discuss defensive measures going forward.

The last time the rest of the world stood by and watched a dictator claim he was just taking back land what was theirs, it didn't go so well. Chamberlain even had a pinky swear promise on paper Hitler was at his limit.

Do I think Putin is a wannabe Hater? He has a very imperialistic mindset. He may not be thinking genocide, but he definitely doesn't care about another country's sovereignty.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

This falls under...looks hot, but proceed with caution...she could be tucking something in those jeans.

Oh, and regardless, she's waayyyyy off on the crazy/hot scale.

She has a decent body and a face and personality to protect it.

 

[IUCrazy2]

The last time the rest of the world stood by and watched a dictator claim he was just taking back land what was theirs, it didn't go so well. Chamberlain even had a pinky swear promise on paper Hitler was at his limit.

Do I think Putin is a wannabe Hater? He has a very imperialistic mindset. He may not be thinking genocide, but he definitely doesn't care about another country's sovereignty.

Not every totalitarian with a land grab fetish is Adolph Hitler. Putin sucks in his own way, I wouldn't argue that with you. I think he sucks, the Russians suck from a geopolitical POV, and that we should reasonably do what is necessary to pin them in as best as possible. We have to realize that we can be bled dry on this as well yhough too. Furthermore, nothing the Russians have done to date in Ukraine leads me to believe they are an existential threat to NATO anymore either. Kick Ukraine the money but there has to be an end goal. Ukraine isn't reclaiming that territory, time to start talking.

 

[Joe_Hoopsier]

Not every totalitarian with a land grab fetish is Adolph Hitler. Putin sucks in his own way, I wouldn't argue that with you. I think he sucks, the Russians suck from a geopolitical POV, and that we should reasonably do what is necessary to pin them in as best as possible. We have to realize that we can be bled dry on this as well yhough too. Furthermore, nothing the Russians have done to date in Ukraine leads me to believe they are an existential threat to NATO anymore either. Kick Ukraine the money but there has to be an end goal. Ukraine isn't reclaiming that territory, time to start talking.

I think there is still room for Ukraine to get their dirt back, but it requires that Putin to have some unhealth care administered to him. Maybe a few dozen Oligarchs as well and the Russian economy to go belly up.

 

[IUCrazy2]

I think there is still room for Ukraine to get their dirt back, but it requires that Putin to have some unhealth care administered to him. Maybe a few dozen Oligarchs as well and the Russian economy to go belly up.

Most of which are kind of beyond our control and one is minimally.

To the idea of the Russian economy going belly up though, domestic politics here are holding the Ukrainians back on that:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/russia-ukraine-oil-refineries-strikes-biden-administration-vladimir-putin-b0ef679c

 

[DDE-6-20-23]

She has a decent body and a face and personality to protect it.

You would probably have to have some pretty good wrestling skills to tangle there...Might be 2nd day sore LOL

 

[Bloom.]

Not every totalitarian with a land grab fetish is Adolph Hitler.

Correct, but war was long since declared before we learned to total nature of his plans.

It's clear Putin would force certain segments of the population into labor camps.

Putin sucks in his own way, I wouldn't argue that with you. I think he sucks, the Russians suck from a geopolitical POV, and that we should reasonably do what is necessary to pin them in as best as possible. We have to realize that we can be bled dry on this as well yhough too. Furthermore, nothing the Russians have done to date in Ukraine leads me to believe they are an existential threat to NATO anymore either.

Any nation with a nuclear arsenal is an extensional threat, especially if you think the leader is mostly worried about whether or not he would survive an ever more compliant region.

Kick Ukraine the money but there has to be an end goal. Ukraine isn't reclaiming that territory, time to start talking.

I don't see them relenting until they get their territory back.

 

[IUCrazy2]

Correct, but war was long since declared before we learned to total nature of his plans.

It's clear Putin would force certain segments of the population into labor camps.

Any nation with a nuclear arsenal is an extensional threat, especially if you think the leader is mostly worried about whether or not he would survive an ever more compliant region.

Technically yes on the nukes, at that point everyone is dead though. I mean he isn't going to be able to roll conventional forces in and expect to win.

I don't see them relenting until they get their territory back.

That's fine, there are other ways to not relent that aren't as expensive. Better to sign a treaty now and then back an insurgency in the occupied territories that bleeds the Russians that way.

 

[Joe_Hoopsier]

Technically yes on the nukes, at that point everyone is dead though. I mean he isn't going to be able to roll conventional forces in and expect to win.

That's fine, there are other ways to not relent that aren't as expensive. Better to sign a treaty now and then back an insurgency in the occupied territories that bleeds the Russians that way.

With what they’ve developed in drone tech, just so far….. until puttie leaves, it’ll be total apocalypse area for generations. No one, at any time, in any moment, will be safe.
Thanks putin.

 

[Joe_Hoopsier]

With what they’ve developed in drone tech, just so far….. until puttie leaves, it’ll be total apocalypse area for generations. No one, at any time, in any moment, will be safe.
Thanks putin.

I’ll add…. If Putin leaves, I suspect Ukraine to maintain 10 million drones per year into 100 miles of Russia “mother land” territory for the next 30 yrs.

 

[DANC]

I didn't come up with that nickname for MGT, that was recently-retired R-CO Ken Buck who coined the title of Moscow Marjorie. I must admit I don't really grasp why some within Ultra MAGA are so violently opposed to sending aid to Ukraine? But both MTG and Matty Gaetz (who was determined to eliminate McCarthy over MCarthy's unwillingness to halt the (ongoing) ethics inquiry into Gaetz), are apparently willing to charge up that hill...

It's certainly a stance popular with Russian State TV ie... Putin, which might give me pause if that was my side.And echoing Russian propaganda? That too seems like a fact that would make someone question their choices

I don't agree with Johnson on much, but here he's doing the right thing. Nonsense from our own pro-Putin apologists aside, Russia has been the aggressor in this war from the outset. And if anybody really believes Putin's territorial ambitions are limited to occupying Eastern Ukraine, then I've got a deed to some ocean front property in AZ, that you can purchase for a song. (sorry )

View embedded media

It was her secret plan to get Dims and Republicans working together - and it worked!

 

[zeke4ahs]

Hmmm

You can tell she’s holding her breath. Lol

 

[DDE-6-20-23]

You can tell she’s holding her breath. Lol

She does Crossfit. Always wanted to try that, but never made it to a gym. One of my oldest kids used to do it and loved it. Espn used to air the Crossfit games they are pretty extreme.

 

[DANC]

Not every totalitarian with a land grab fetish is Adolph Hitler. Putin sucks in his own way, I wouldn't argue that with you. I think he sucks, the Russians suck from a geopolitical POV, and that we should reasonably do what is necessary to pin them in as best as possible. We have to realize that we can be bled dry on this as well yhough too. Furthermore, nothing the Russians have done to date in Ukraine leads me to believe they are an existential threat to NATO anymore either. Kick Ukraine the money but there has to be an end goal. Ukraine isn't reclaiming that territory, time to start talking.

$70 Billion is less than 10% of our military budget and we aren't even at war. One thing this has done is expose our weak domestic defense industry.

There is no way Russia could bleed us dry. They couldn't even maintain a position in Afghanistan and the Soviet Union collapsed shortly after.

I do agree they're not really a threat to NATO, but we only know that after backing Ukraine.

I hate to agree with Bloom, but Putin is most definitely a Hitler wannabe when it comes to reclaiming the old Soviet Union.

 

[T.M.P.]

You can tell she’s holding her breath. Lol

Still doesn't hide the roid face ..

 

[DANC]

You can tell she’s holding her breath. Lol

Meeee-owww!!!!

 

[zeke4ahs]

She does Crossfit. Always wanted to try that, but never made it to a gym. One of my oldest kids used to do it and loved it. Espn used to air the Crossfit games they are pretty extreme.

I know. She does work out a lot. She had an affair with her trainer. But she’s still holding her breath I think.

 

[zeke4ahs]

Meeee-owww!!!!

Oh yeah, God help me if I was jealous of her.

 

[Bloom.]

Technically yes on the nukes, at that point everyone is dead though. I mean he isn't going to be able to roll conventional forces in and expect to win.

Not everyone is going to die in a nuclear war. Some will even survive swimmingly. It's not going to be you and me. It only takes one to decide that's good enough.

That's fine, there are other ways to not relent that aren't as expensive. Better to sign a treaty now and then back an insurgency in the occupied territories that bleeds the Russians that way.

You're the Neville Chamberlain of the board. You might even get off the plane waiving the treaty in the air.

I don't think either side is interested in a treaty.

 

[manichi]

Hmmm

she's an 8 on the river

a 5 on dry land

 

[IUCrazy2]

$70 Billion is less than 10% of our military budget and we aren't even at war. One thing this has done is expose our weak domestic defense industry.

There is no way Russia could bleed us dry. They couldn't even maintain a position in Afghanistan and the Soviet Union collapsed shortly after.

I do agree they're not really a threat to NATO, but we only know that after backing Ukraine.

I hate to agree with Bloom, but Putin is most definitely a Hitler wannabe when it comes to reclaiming the old Soviet Union.

$70 billion unfunded here and $70 billion unfunded there and you eventually end up at $1 trillion unfunded every year as far as the eye can see.

I am not one that believes we can spend like this into perpetuity. Cumulatively, things are 21% more expensive now than they were just 4 years ago. All this flippant spending does have a price for us here at home and all of it gets justified as "Well, we get this benefit for only $X billion...."

I think if it is that important it needs to be funded and there has to be some plan other than throwing a dozen armored vehicles here and some jets there and whomever told the Ukrainians to go on the offensive last year instead of stockpiling the weaponry for a big push was an idiot. They had the defensive advantage and squandered their men and material on an offensive push they weren't ready to make. We spent $65 billion and at the end all it was getting us was blowing up 1960's tanks that would be shredded within minutes of crossing into a NATO country anyway. That isn't a great payoff to me.

 

[DANC]

$70 billion unfunded here and $70 billion unfunded there and you eventually end up at $1 trillion unfunded every year as far as the eye can see.

I am not one that believes we can spend like this into perpetuity. Cumulatively, things are 21% more expensive now than they were just 4 years ago. All this flippant spending does have a price for us here at home and all of it gets justified as "Well, we get this benefit for only $X billion...."

I think if it is that important it needs to be funded and there has to be some plan other than throwing a dozen armored vehicles here and some jets there and whomever told the Ukrainians to go on the offensive last year instead of stockpiling the weaponry for a big push was an idiot. They had the defensive advantage and squandered their men and material on an offensive push they weren't ready to make. We spent $65 billion and at the end all it was getting us was blowing up 1960's tanks that would be shredded within minutes of crossing into a NATO country anyway. That isn't a great payoff to me.

I agree about deficit spending. What I'm saying is, we can do with much less of a Defense budget when we're not in a war.

Russia doesn't spend a fraction of what we do, and yet they manage to pour troops and material into Ukraine.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

I agree about deficit spending. What I'm saying is, we can do with much less of a Defense budget when we're not in a war.

Russia doesn't spend a fraction of what we do, and yet they manage to pour troops and material into Ukraine.

Minimally trained and poorly led troops and inferior weapons systems.

 

[Mas-sa-suta]

I agree about deficit spending. What I'm saying is, we can do with much less of a Defense budget when we're not in a war.

Russia doesn't spend a fraction of what we do, and yet they manage to pour troops and material into Ukraine.

Russia has leadership, enacting policies to the benefit of Russian citizens and ethnic Russians in the Donbas. The Russian people understand this. Most Ukranians understand this also.
They both also understand the persistent rot infesting the militant surveillance/eternal war state of the United States, which will lead to the abandonment of Ukraine at some point. Same as Vietnam. Same as Afghanistan.
Same as Iraq.
And the debt will soon hit $35Trillion....all borrowed..

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

Russia has leadership, enacting policies to the benefit of Russian citizens and ethnic Russians in the Donbas. The Russian people understand this. Most Ukranians understand this also.
They both also understand the persistent rot infesting the militant surveillance/eternal war state of the United States, which will lead to the abandonment of Ukraine at some point. Same as Vietnam. Same as Afghanistan.
Same as Iraq.
And the debt will soon hit $35Trillion....all borrowed..

Wow!!! I’m starting to wonder if you were a Russian agent when in the military. Were you? I might need to amend my report on you.

 

[DANC]

Russia has leadership, enacting policies to the benefit of Russian citizens and ethnic Russians in the Donbas. The Russian people understand this. Most Ukranians understand this also.
They both also understand the persistent rot infesting the militant surveillance/eternal war state of the United States, which will lead to the abandonment of Ukraine at some point. Same as Vietnam. Same as Afghanistan.
Same as Iraq.
And the debt will soon hit $35Trillion....all borrowed..

Hitler made the same argument about the Sudetenland.

Why would Russians citizens even be in the Donbas?

I don't doubt the US will abandon Ukraine - we do that to nations all the time.

 

[Mas-sa-suta]

Hitler made the same argument about the Sudetenland.

Why would Russians citizens even be in the Donbas?

I don't doubt the US will abandon Ukraine - we do that to nations all the time.

Sorry: it is a compound sentence, one part about ACTUAL Russian citizens, and the other part refers to ETHNIC Russians who live in the Donbas.

ETHNIC Germans were being attacked in Poland. German CITIZENS put a stop to it.

 

[DANC]

Sorry: it is a compound sentence, one part about ACTUAL Russian citizens, and the other part refers to ETHNIC Russians who live in the Donbas.

ETHNIC Germans were being attacked in Poland. German CITIZENS put a stop to it.

Uh, Poland is not the Sudetenland.

That's OK - ethnic Germans ended up going back to Germany anyway. I guess they didn't get much protection from Herr Hitler.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

Sorry: it is a compound sentence, one part about ACTUAL Russian citizens, and the other part refers to ETHNIC Russians who live in the Donbas.

ETHNIC Germans were being attacked in Poland. German CITIZENS put a stop to it.

Wow! NAZI too. How do you reconcile your affinity for NAZIs and a former Communist (Putin) and the Ruskis? Also how do you square all that with you formerly patriotic American self?

 

[snarlcakes]

$70 billion unfunded here and $70 billion unfunded there and you eventually end up at $1 trillion unfunded every year as far as the eye can see.

I am not one that believes we can spend like this into perpetuity. Cumulatively, things are 21% more expensive now than they were just 4 years ago. All this flippant spending does have a price for us here at home and all of it gets justified as "Well, we get this benefit for only $X billion...."

I think if it is that important it needs to be funded and there has to be some plan other than throwing a dozen armored vehicles here and some jets there and whomever told the Ukrainians to go on the offensive last year instead of stockpiling the weaponry for a big push was an idiot. They had the defensive advantage and squandered their men and material on an offensive push they weren't ready to make. We spent $65 billion and at the end all it was getting us was blowing up 1960's tanks that would be shredded within minutes of crossing into a NATO country anyway. That isn't a great payoff to me.

It looks like we’re going to add another 100 billion.