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More thoughts on Tuesday's suspensions....

SoccerSammy

SoccerSammy

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Sep 7, 2012
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Curfew violation. Ok... Take deep breaths everyone. I know they're on scholarship and they're getting a free education and yada yada yada... but once again I'll say we were all young and stupid at one point. Some of us are older and stupider. I'm thrilled CMW took a stand and showed everyone he's the boss . We can really be elite and NOT be Duke, Ky, Louisville, UNC, etc... But in the end it was a curfew violation. Even if they snuck out of their rooms at night to visit Chitown for a bit. I think of the crap I did during my years at IU.... and then I think if had been a BMOC like these guys are... let's just say that diploma might not be hanging on my wall. Let's buckle down now and beat the hell out of that whiny faced disgusting poor excuse for a decent human up in Lansing.
 
SoccerSammy said:
Curfew violation. Ok... Take deep breaths everyone. I know they're on scholarship and they're getting a free education and yada yada yada... but once again I'll say we were all young and stupid at one point. Some of us are older and stupider. I'm thrilled CMW took a stand and showed everyone he's the boss . We can really be elite and NOT be Duke, Ky, Louisville, UNC, etc... But in the end it was a curfew violation. Even if they snuck out of their rooms at night to visit Chitown for a bit. I think of the crap I did during my years at IU.... and then I think if had been a BMOC like these guys are... let's just say that diploma might not be hanging on my wall. Let's buckle down now and beat the hell out of that whiny faced disgusting poor excuse for a decent human up in Lansing.
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To me, what they actually did means less than what it represents. None of the guys on the IU basketball team have won anything to speak of at the collegiate levels. Not even sure there’s anyone who has even played in the NCAA tournament. Yet, right before a game they really needed to help secure a bid, this happens. From the outside I would question how serious these guys are about winning, how much does it matter to them? Did the NW loss eliminate IU from the tournament?? No. However, it would seem now that in order to secure spot they are going to have to win a game that seems unlikely, even before any of this happened.
 
Sobchak_Security said:
To me, what they actually did means less than what it represents. None of the guys on the IU basketball team have won anything to speak of at the collegiate levels. Not even sure there’s anyone who has even played in the NCAA tournament. Yet, right before a game they really needed to help secure a bid, this happens. From the outside I would question how serious these guys are about winning, how much does it matter to them? Did the NW loss eliminate IU from the tournament?? No. However, it would seem now that in order to secure spot they are going to have to win a game that seems unlikely, even before any of this happened.
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I guess we are going to see how serious they are come Saturday.
 
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SoccerSammy said:
Curfew violation. Ok... Take deep breaths everyone. I know they're on scholarship and they're getting a free education and yada yada yada... but once again I'll say we were all young and stupid at one point. Some of us are older and stupider. I'm thrilled CMW took a stand and showed everyone he's the boss . We can really be elite and NOT be Duke, Ky, Louisville, UNC, etc... But in the end it was a curfew violation. Even if they snuck out of their rooms at night to visit Chitown for a bit. I think of the crap I did during my years at IU.... and then I think if had been a BMOC like these guys are... let's just say that diploma might not be hanging on my wall. Let's buckle down now and beat the hell out of that whiny faced disgusting poor excuse for a decent human up in Lansing.
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100% agree.
What's that old line...........let he without sin cast the 1st stone.
Or maybe for some of the even harsher critics........ to err is human, to forgive is Devine.
 
gator mcCluskey said:
So, instead of rallying you think they’ll fold? Personally, I think it could go either way. If they lay down like you’re predicting it will signal that this season is over.
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I wish they would rally, prove me wrong, but bottom line is this "team" doesn't have it in them. I don't like saying that but the truth hurts.
 
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Hoosierific said:
I wish they would rally, prove me wrong, but bottom line is this "team" doesn't have it in them. I don't like saying that but the truth hurts.
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We will see. Obviously we don't do well in the izzone but I don't think this mich state team is actually that good. I think minnesota almost won there and maybe even nebraska
 
SoccerSammy said:
Curfew violation. Ok... Take deep breaths everyone. I know they're on scholarship and they're getting a free education and yada yada yada... but once again I'll say we were all young and stupid at one point. Some of us are older and stupider. I'm thrilled CMW took a stand and showed everyone he's the boss . We can really be elite and NOT be Duke, Ky, Louisville, UNC, etc... But in the end it was a curfew violation. Even if they snuck out of their rooms at night to visit Chitown for a bit. I think of the crap I did during my years at IU.... and then I think if had been a BMOC like these guys are... let's just say that diploma might not be hanging on my wall. Let's buckle down now and beat the hell out of that whiny faced disgusting poor excuse for a decent human up in Lansing.
Click to expand...

I'd still start X, Leal, Trey, Race, and TJD.
 
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HoosierJimbo89 said:
In my opinion, Woodson's suspension of these players is more harsh than Painter's punishment of Gillis for the DUI. I don't like it. This program just can't get out of its own way.
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Respectfully, I think you are being short sighted. Like Woody said, he wants to create a culture. Early on in his IU career this is a momentous moment.
 
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I think part of the reason for the suspension is a test for the 5 players involved. CMW took advantage of an opportunity. There have been many questions raised about these 5 players concerning next year on this board. What better way to evaluate their testicular fortitude then to give them this adversity and see how they react. I would bet, any of the five that do not respond positively will not be back next year.

Brilliant move by coach IMO
 
mohepa said:
I think part of the reason for the suspension is a test for the 5 players involved. CMW took advantage of an opportunity. There have been many questions raised about these 5 players concerning next year on this board. What better way to evaluate their testicular fortitude then to give them this adversity and see how they react. I would bet, any of the five that do not respond positively will not be back next year.

Brilliant move by coach IMO
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A stretch in thinking as this jeopardizes our tourney chances...
 
SoccerSammy said:
Curfew violation. Ok... Take deep breaths everyone. I know they're on scholarship and they're getting a free education and yada yada yada... but once again I'll say we were all young and stupid at one point. Some of us are older and stupider. I'm thrilled CMW took a stand and showed everyone he's the boss . We can really be elite and NOT be Duke, Ky, Louisville, UNC, etc... But in the end it was a curfew violation. Even if they snuck out of their rooms at night to visit Chitown for a bit. I think of the crap I did during my years at IU.... and then I think if had been a BMOC like these guys are... let's just say that diploma might not be hanging on my wall. Let's buckle down now and beat the hell out of that whiny faced disgusting poor excuse for a decent human up in Lansing.
Click to expand...
I think you're missing a key point here. Yes, they're kids and kids do stupid impulsive things which this was. But, on another level, what it showed was a significant lack of respect. Think about it from this perspective, they did not respect the team rules, their teammates, Coach Woodson, the IU basketball program or the University. They completely failed to understand that it is a privilege and honor to be able to play basketball at IU. They are ambassadors of the university whether they like that role or not, they signed up for it.

But, what I would guess was most troublesome to Woodson was the point guard, an upper classman, the leader of the team in Woodson's view was part of of it. Xavier should have never led it or, if he wasn't the leader of the rules violation, he should have squashed it. That is what leaders do. He failed in his role badly and, worse still, the other four guys went along. Its not like they were all having great seasons.

Think about great prior IU teams, would a Knight coached point guard be a leader of, or participant in, a team rules violation? Can any team led by such a player really be successful or a winner?
 
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If our players respond appropriately this could be what contributes to the success of this team. We lack character and I believe CMW is trying to build that in these young men. Knight did the same sort of thing and his teams were mentally tough.
 
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SoccerSammy said:
Curfew violation. Ok... Take deep breaths everyone. I know they're on scholarship and they're getting a free education and yada yada yada... but once again I'll say we were all young and stupid at one point. Some of us are older and stupider. I'm thrilled CMW took a stand and showed everyone he's the boss . We can really be elite and NOT be Duke, Ky, Louisville, UNC, etc... But in the end it was a curfew violation. Even if they snuck out of their rooms at night to visit Chitown for a bit. I think of the crap I did during my years at IU.... and then I think if had been a BMOC like these guys are... let's just say that diploma might not be hanging on my wall. Let's buckle down now and beat the hell out of that whiny faced disgusting poor excuse for a decent human up in Lansing.
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I posted something like this elsewhere but it should be repeated. Nobody died, Nobody was hurt, and no law was broken. However, what was broken was the bond of Trust with their teammates due to their selfishness and inability to follow direction. If I am on this team and following the rules, I have to think, if you can't follow rules and direction off the Court, how can I trust You on the Court.

If We are down by one with five seconds left in the game and Coach draws up a play that calls for Me to receive a pass from You as I come off a Screen, How can I trust You to make that pass? Or will You say screw it I'm going to drive the ball to the basket because I think it's the best option?

I know as We started the Year there was big talk about How these guys all "Bought in" to the new system. Apparently, Some of them still haven't.
 
Champs1976 said:
I think you're missing a key point here. Yes, they're kids and kids do stupid impulsive things which this was. But, on another level, what it showed was a significant lack of respect. Think about it from this perspective, they did not respect the team rules, their teammates, Coach Woodson, the IU basketball program or the University. They completely failed to understand that it is a privilege and honor to be able to play basketball at IU. They are ambassadors of the university whether they like that role or not, they signed up for it.

But, what I would guess was most troublesome to Woodson was the point guard, an upper classman, the leader of the team in Woodson's view was part of of it. Xavier should have never led it or, if he wasn't the leader of the rules violation, he should have squashed it. That is what leaders do. He failed in his role badly and, worse still, the other four guys went along. Its not like they were all having great seasons.

Think about great prior IU teams, would a Knight coached point guard be a leader of, or participant in, a team rules violation? Can any team led by such a player really be successful or a winner?
Click to expand...
in the end these are BASKETBALL players..... just basketball players. Many of us have careers and responsibilities that are far more important in the grand scheme of things than the outcome of basketball games.... And I'm going to guess I'm not the only one who hasn't always "respected the rules, teammates (colleagues), Coach Woodson (our bosses for those who have them, thank the Lord I do not), or the history of our professions. Maybe I'm getting too chilled in my advancing middle age, but I think a little grace is in order here as long as the response is a positive one. Only CMW know EXACTLY what they did and only CMW has the authority to handle the situation. If the season implodes, it was going to implode anyhow. If this team finds a new spark, maybe CMW will eventually be recognized as a genius for this past week...
 
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" If the season implodes, it was going to implode anyhow."

I appreciate most of your sentiments. Not sure I agree with the above statement.
 
SoccerSammy said:
in the end these are BASKETBALL players..... just basketball players. Many of us have careers and responsibilities that are far more important in the grand scheme of things than the outcome of basketball games.... And I'm going to guess I'm not the only one who hasn't always "respected the rules, teammates (colleagues), Coach Woodson (our bosses for those who have them, thank the Lord I do not), or the history of our professions. Maybe I'm getting too chilled in my advancing middle age, but I think a little grace is in order here as long as the response is a positive one. Only CMW know EXACTLY what they did and only CMW has the authority to handle the situation. If the season implodes, it was going to implode anyhow. If this team finds a new spark, maybe CMW will eventually be recognized as a genius for this past week...
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I mean sure it is just a game and that has been one heck of alot easier to say the last twenty years as IU has not been good. But I am pretty sure most of us were not saying that in the early 90's when IU was challending or winning big ten titles. It is all relative to success I believe and people will talk a differnt tune when team is not good.

But I am guessing 90% of the folks who were around when we lost to say Duke in the final four did not say right after of it is just a game that is ok. My guess is most were pretty upste or bummed for a a few days at least.
 
bailey777 said:
I mean sure it is just a game and that has been one heck of alot easier to say the last twenty years as IU has not been good. But I am pretty sure most of us were not saying that in the early 90's when IU was challending or winning big ten titles. It is all relative to success I believe and people will talk a differnt tune when team is not good.

But I am guessing 90% of the folks who were around when we lost to say Duke in the final four did not say right after of it is just a game that is ok. My guess is most were pretty upste or bummed for a a few days at least.
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I was 21 years old when we lost
To Duke in 1992. I was hammered and pissed. I remember being inconsolable when we were bounced in the ‘94 sweet sixteen by BC. Watching that Wake Forest asshole with glee in his eyes drop is off the board in the CBS studio is still something that gets my goat nearly 30 years later. But now I’m 51 and realize that though I absolutely love college bball and especially IUBB I don’t live and die by it anymore
 
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Champs1976 said:
I think you're missing a key point here. Yes, they're kids and kids do stupid impulsive things which this was. But, on another level, what it showed was a significant lack of respect. Think about it from this perspective, they did not respect the team rules, their teammates, Coach Woodson, the IU basketball program or the University. They completely failed to understand that it is a privilege and honor to be able to play basketball at IU. They are ambassadors of the university whether they like that role or not, they signed up for it.

But, what I would guess was most troublesome to Woodson was the point guard, an upper classman, the leader of the team in Woodson's view was part of of it. Xavier should have never led it or, if he wasn't the leader of the rules violation, he should have squashed it. That is what leaders do. He failed in his role badly and, worse still, the other four guys went along. Its not like they were all having great seasons.

Think about great prior IU teams, would a Knight coached point guard be a leader of, or participant in, a team rules violation? Can any team led by such a player really be successful or a winner?
Click to expand...
I am reminded of Yogi and his fake ID.
 
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bailey777 said:
Leal really?
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Yes. In his 2 starts he had 9 assists and 2 turnovers and added 7 rebounds. Better than PS in his past 8 games. Leal is a better defender and more athletic. And he can shoot. Maybe not as well as PS but it's asking a lot to come into a road game at NU and shoot lights out after not playing much in over a month.
 
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ribbont said:
Yes. In his 2 starts he had 9 assists and 2 turnovers and added 7 rebounds. Better than PS in his past 8 games. Leal is a better defender and more athletic. And he can shoot. Maybe not as well as PS but it's asking a lot to come into a road game at NU and shoot lights out after not playing much in over a month.
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I hope you’re right. I love his energy and certainly think he’s an upgrade from Stewart, but not sure he’s talented enough to be more than a low minute role player. Really wanted Stewart to succeed after losing his dad and transferring. Looks like he’s out of his league though
 
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ribbont said:
Yes. In his 2 starts he had 9 assists and 2 turnovers and added 7 rebounds. Better than PS in his past 8 games. Leal is a better defender and more athletic. And he can shoot. Maybe not as well as PS but it's asking a lot to come into a road game at NU and shoot lights out after not playing much in over a month.
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I would give Leal 2 advantages over Stewart. Foot speed and passing. I think you are in the minority who thinks Leal is better defensively. I don’t think it’s close there which is why Stewart starts.

I would never knock Leal because I still believe he is going to be a major contributor to this team down the road but I have seen nothing that even hints that he is currently better than Stewart.

IMO Rob is 10Xs closer to replacing Stewart than Leal is. I personally think once Rob returns Leal will not see the court much again barring another injury.
 
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Beorik said:
I would give Leal 2 advantages over Stewart. Foot speed and passing. I think you are in the minority who thinks Leal is better defensively. I don’t think it’s close there which is why Stewart starts.

I would never knock Leal because I still believe he is going to be a major contributor to this team down the road but I have seen nothing that even hints that he is currently better than Stewart.

IMO Rob is 10Xs closer to replacing Stewart than Leal is. I personally think once Rob returns Leal will not see the court much again barring another injury.
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I'm ok with being in the minority. He mainly guarded Audige who shot 5-16, which included that crappy bank. But I understand your point. I just don't think PS's better D and shooting outweighs his lack of passing and movement. Agree on Rob, but we don't have Rob, so against MSU, put in Leal for PS.
 
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Champs1976 said:
I think you're missing a key point here. Yes, they're kids and kids do stupid impulsive things which this was. But, on another level, what it showed was a significant lack of respect. Think about it from this perspective, they did not respect the team rules, their teammates, Coach Woodson, the IU basketball program or the University. They completely failed to understand that it is a privilege and honor to be able to play basketball at IU. They are ambassadors of the university whether they like that role or not, they signed up for it.

But, what I would guess was most troublesome to Woodson was the point guard, an upper classman, the leader of the team in Woodson's view was part of of it. Xavier should have never led it or, if he wasn't the leader of the rules violation, he should have squashed it. That is what leaders do. He failed in his role badly and, worse still, the other four guys went along. Its not like they were all having great seasons.

Think about great prior IU teams, would a Knight coached point guard be a leader of, or participant in, a team rules violation? Can any team led by such a player really be successful or a winner?
Click to expand...
how about this possible take, and I had a knee jerk reaction when this 1st went down which I shouldn't have. OK, since we really know nothing for sure of what happened,what if 4 of the 5 want to go out and be back on time,and what if X said no, they pestered him til he agreed on the condition that he go along to make sure they were back in plenty of time. All was going according to plan, they hit an unexpected delay through no fault of their own and got back 20 minutes late and got caught. Woody enforced the rule,no excuses. Again, I have no idea what happened, could have been something a little or a lot worse. all just guesses and the rumor mill. Bottom line...Let Woody coach, do what and how he thinks best.
 
ribbont said:
I'm ok with being in the minority. He mainly guarded Audige who shot 5-16, which included that crappy bank. But I understand your point. I just don't think PS's better D and shooting outweighs his lack of passing and movement. Agree on Rob, but we don't have Rob, so against MSU, put in Leal for PS.
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Until Johnson and TJD start finding open shooters it probably won’t matter much who plays the 2/3 so worth a shot I guess.
 
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