Michael Jordan on if 90’s Bulls could beat LeBron’s Lakers

[BradStevens]

In comparing the videos, it appears to be a tie between MJ and LeBron. That said, in a couple of them LeBron had a breakaway and MJ was trying to get ahead of someone. In other words, Lebron may not have been full speed. Even if he was, LeBron is much larger/stronger. To be as fast as MJ but much more powerful is important. If LeBron wanted to back his way down there is little MJ could do.

You aren't even a boomer and are showing the boomer, "Everything in my day is clearly superior" bias. Though there is an intangible MJ has over LeBron that may make a difference. I think he was a better team player. Part of that may have been Phil's zen, part might be LeBron appears more self centered by moving teams so often.

No, I’m not. I’m not saying everybody was better. I’m saying MJ would still be a Top 10 player today. You and Goat are being ridiculous.

But go for it: name 10 players today either more athletic than Jordan or better all-around basketball players. Goat has to name 30.

And to show you my non bias, I’ll say right now that Jokic is every bit as good as Bird.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

No, I’m not. I’m not saying everybody was better. I’m saying MJ would still be a Top 10 player today. You and Goat are being ridiculous.

But go for it: name 10 players today either more athletic than Jordan or better all-around basketball players. Goat has to name 30.

And to show you my non bias, I’ll say right now they Jokic is every bit as good as Bird.

When did top 10 get mentioned? I have said he still might be the best but probably not. I have made no claims against him not being one of the best. In fact I think I said he would probably be a perpetual all-star.

 

[hoosboot]

Jordan and Chamberlain in their prime would dominate today. Bird and Erving would school the pretenders today.

Gibson, Koufax and Maddux would dominate today. Mays, Aaron, Williams, Mantle would all rake today.

Walter Payton would rule the NFL.

Maybe, but no way they could figure out a Bluetooth speaker in their bathroom.

 

[PhyloeBedoe]

It's nice to think MJ would be the exception, but honestly, probably not. It's most likely that there are 30-50 players in the NBA right now who are better than MJ. That's just the nature of sports and development over time.

In your mind, what was the thing that separated MJ from the crowd? His athleticism? Skills? I believe his advantage was mostly up in his dome. Not only his intelligence, but his weird competitive drive. Throw in his freakish body control and generally athleticism, and skill, and he succeeds, nay, DOMINATES in every era we’ve experienced thus far. He is the greatest of all time.

 

[BadWakeboarder]

It's nice to think MJ would be the exception, but honestly, probably not. It's most likely that there are 30-50 players in the NBA right now who are better than MJ. That's just the nature of sports and development over time.

That’s not the question. The question is more like if you had MJ’s soul and spirit in a husk of today’s player would he be the best. I can’t formulate an argument that gets to “no.”

 

[BadWakeboarder]

Kudos for trying to fight the good fight, Marvin, but the Cooler needs to be renamed "Old Men Waxing Poetic About the Good Old Days When They Were Young(er)". This is the 2nd "get off my lawn" thread this week!

Jordan's biggest assets as a rookie were his speed, size, quick twitch, and jumping ability. I am skeptical that any of those things would be extraordinary in today's NBA. And I am nearly certain that Jordan wouldn't have been able to keep his many vices out of the social media microscope of today's climate. Hall of Famer or Jontay Porter? 🤣

The game has certainly changed. It was more entertaining when it wasn’t all dunks or 3’s. If MJ had any struggle to today’s game it would be his need to catch up to the long range game - much like Lebron has had to adjust in the back part of his career.

I’m honestly convinced that Bird and Magic would dominate todays game if they had the training pipeline that today’s players have.

 

[BadWakeboarder]

In your mind, what was the thing that separated MJ from the crowd? His athleticism? Skills? I believe his advantage was mostly up in his dome. Not only his intelligence, but his weird competitive drive. Throw in his freakish body control and generally athleticism, and skill, and he succeeds, nay, DOMINATES in every era we’ve experienced thus far. He is the greatest of all time.

It was 100% in his dome. Nobody in the history of sports wanted to win more than him. To a fault.

 

[BadWakeboarder]

In comparing the videos, it appears to be a tie between MJ and LeBron. That said, in a couple of them LeBron had a breakaway and MJ was trying to get ahead of someone. In other words, Lebron may not have been full speed. Even if he was, LeBron is much larger/stronger. To be as fast as MJ but much more powerful is important. If LeBron wanted to back his way down there is little MJ could do.

You aren't even a boomer and are showing the boomer, "Everything in my day is clearly superior" bias. Though there is an intangible MJ has over LeBron that may make a difference. I think he was a better team player. Part of that may have been Phil's zen, part might be LeBron appears more self centered by moving teams so often.

The argument of LeBron vs Jordan isn’t a one on one comparison. That would be silly. LeBron would bully Jordan in one on one.

I coach 6th grade travel basketball. The kid on the team who performs best in one on one drills is the worst kid on the team during actual 5 on 5 gameplay. Hand to God.

The question about LeBron versus Jordan has never been about individual play, it’s been about who is the best overall player across the board. And to me, there’s never even a question.

 

[The Original Happy Goat]

That’s not the question. The question is more like if you had MJ’s soul and spirit in a husk of today’s player would he be the best. I can’t formulate an argument that gets to “no.”

That was Marvin's thought experiment, but not what I was responding to. It was McM saying you could just time travel MJ from 91 to today and he'd still be the best.

 

[Spartans9312]

I don't think so. Players today have a physical advantage Jack never had, and never could.

Look at what he did at Augusta in ‘65. He hit short irons into the par 4s and was able to reach the par 5s with irons. Playing with persimmon and inferior irons and golf balls.

The course played at the same yardage.

 

[Baller23Boogie]

Look at what he did at Augusta in ‘65. He hit short irons into the par 4s and was able to reach the par 5s with irons. Playing with persimmon and inferior irons and golf balls.

The course played at the same yardage.

Augusta is almost 600 yards longer then what it was in 65.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

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So would the Detroit Bad Boys

 

[Univee2]

Maybe, but no way they could figure out a Bluetooth speaker in their bathroom.

And then they would just come here and Brad, but no one else, would help them out.

 

[Hank Reardon]

Augusta is almost 600 yards longer then what it was in 65.

The equipment was much worse, though. That said, I do agree that 1965 Jack wouldn't get close to 2000 Tiger with the same equipment. That's the nature of athletics.

 

[UncleMark]

Kudos for trying to fight the good fight, Marvin, but the Cooler needs to be renamed "Old Men Waxing Poetic About the Good Old Days When They Were Young(er)". This is the 2nd "get off my lawn" thread this week!

You kids are all full of shit. Havlicek and Oscar would run circles around all these guys.

 

[Univee2]

You kids are all full of shit. Havlicek and Oscar would run circles around all these guys.

. . . And Jerry West, Zeke from Cabin Creek.

 

[BradStevens]

When did top 10 get mentioned? I have said he still might be the best but probably not. I have made no claims against him not being one of the best. In fact I think I said he would probably be a perpetual all-star.

You said he would have "no chance" didn't you?

And you and Goat are arguing the same thing so you're tied to Goat, per the universal rules of bar room sports debates. He said Jordan wouldn't be one of the top 30-50 players today.

Rein in your debate partner, Marv.

 

[BradStevens]

That’s not the question. The question is more like if you had MJ’s soul and spirit in a husk of today’s player would he be the best. I can’t formulate an argument that gets to “no.”

I disagree. I think the question is: transport Jordan in his prime in a time machine to today's game. Is he still the best player in the league? A dominant player? Top 30-50?

 

[mcmurtry66]

I disagree. I think the question is: transport Jordan in his prime in a time machine to today's game. Is he still the best player in the league? A dominant player? Top 30-50?

Yes

 

[mcmurtry66]

I disagree. I think the question is: transport Jordan in his prime in a time machine to today's game. Is he still the best player in the league? A dominant player? Top 30-50?

So would pippen speaking of that team

 

[TyWebbIU]

You don't read your own posts?

Not very often. Clearly. I’ve had some doozies.

 

[IUCrazy2]

When did top 10 get mentioned? I have said he still might be the best but probably not. I have made no claims against him not being one of the best. In fact I think I said he would probably be a perpetual all-star.

Jordan is still the best and Kobe was better than LeBron. These sports aren't pure athletic feats like racing and swimming. There are other components that go into them. The best athletes don't always make the best players.

 

[TyWebbIU]

Jordan is still the best and Kobe was better than LeBron. These sports aren't pure athletic feats like racing and swimming. There are other components that go into them. The best athletes don't always make the best players.

Will to win. Competitiveness. Jordan had those in spades.

 

[mcmurtry66]

@Marvin the Martian it is an interesting debate. Marv I’d be curious to hear your opinion on how you think paolo maldini would today? How about gattuso? The snarling dog. Do you think the little witch Juan Sebastian veron could dominate today? Wasn’t he graelish before Jackie? Socks down and all?

 

[mcmurtry66]

@Marvin the Martian let me ask this another way. Do you think Neymar could survive a muddy field in the dead of winter in bergamo in the 80s? Diego did it weekly…..

 

[Univee2]

@Marvin the Martian it is an interesting debate. Marv I’d be curious to hear your opinion on how you think paolo maldini would today? How about gattuso? The snarling dog. Do you think the little witch Juan Sebastian veron could dominate today? Wasn’t he graelish before Jackie? Socks down and all?

This is s*****, isn’t it? Just had to ruin a good thread by injecting s*****.

Dick Butkus would have picked up one of these dudes, tied their legs in knots and tossed them over the stands.

 

[BradStevens]

@Marvin the Martian it is an interesting debate. Marv I’d be curious to hear your opinion on how you think paolo maldini would today? How about gattuso? The snarling dog. Do you think the little witch Juan Sebastian veron could dominate today? Wasn’t he graelish before Jackie? Socks down and all?

Actually, we should be asking these questions of Marv about another sport near and dear to his heart.

Does today's training and development lead to these people:

being better at D&D than these guys?

The obvious answer: **** no.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Actually, we should be asking these questions of Marv about another sport near and dear to his heart.

Does today's training and development lead to these people:

being better at D&D than these guys?

The obvious answer: **** no.

Just crackers. No booze. Nothin else. Crackers. They haven’t lost at d & d in 39 years

 

[mcmurtry66]

This is s*****, isn’t it? Just had to ruin a good thread by injecting s*****.

Dick Butkus would have picked up one of these dudes, tied their legs in knots and tossed them over the stands.

Juan Sebastian veron with the archangel. I love how you and Marv don’t think they’d dominate today. So dumb.

 

[Univee2]

Juan Sebastian veron with the archangel. I love how you and Marv don’t think they’d dominate today. So dumb.

Maybe as the fashioned-deprived.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Maybe as the fashioned-deprived.

You don’t think the snarling dog could play today 🤣🤣🤣🤡. A man who choked opposing coaches during the match? Bwahahahaha stop

 

[Univee2]

You don’t think the snarling dog could play today 🤣🤣🤣🤡. A man who choked opposing coaches during the match? Bwahahahaha stop

Isn’t it against the rules to use your hands?

 

[BadWakeboarder]

I disagree. I think the question is: transport Jordan in his prime in a time machine to today's game. Is he still the best player in the league? A dominant player? Top 30-50?

Impossible to say. With respect, it’s a bad question.

 

[BadWakeboarder]

Actually, we should be asking these questions of Marv about another sport near and dear to his heart.

Does today's training and development lead to these people:

being better at D&D than these guys?

The obvious answer: **** no.

Crackers eating crackers. Level 69 wizardry.

 

[Baller23Boogie]

The equipment was much worse, though. That said, I do agree that 1965 Jack wouldn't get close to 2000 Tiger with the same equipment. That's the nature of athletics.

Oh yeah, I'm totally with you.

I was just saying they've lengthened the course because technology is so advanced.

I don't think Jack would be able to keep up with Bryson today, who's out here driving greens and putting it in bunkers on a par 5 under 100 yards.

 

[larsIU]

@Marvin the Martian it is an interesting debate. Marv I’d be curious to hear your opinion on how you think paolo maldini would today? How about gattuso? The snarling dog. Do you think the little witch Juan Sebastian veron could dominate today? Wasn’t he graelish before Jackie? Socks down and all?

To be fair, soccer is a bit different as the athletic component, while important, takes a distant 2nd place to skill.

Manipulation of an object (ball) + intelligence + creativity

It’s also why I loved Iverson when other IU fans shit on him. He was six foot (allegedly) and a buck seventy soaking wet. Barely missed a game.

You don’t think the snarling dog could play today 🤣🤣🤣🤡. A man who choked opposing coaches during the match? Bwahahahaha stop

He is a giant POS though.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Actually, we should be asking these questions of Marv about another sport near and dear to his heart.

Does today's training and development lead to these people:

being better at D&D than these guys?

The obvious answer: **** no.

Sadly it does. People today are much better looking at how things relate. "If I take X spell and Y feat, I can wipe out 20 of any opponent." Granted, we did not have feats in our version but the idea holds.

Honestly, I find it fun to play flawed characters. The uber competitive max damage isn't for me.

 

[BradStevens]

Actually, we should be asking these questions of Marv about another sport near and dear to his heart.

Does today's training and development lead to these people:

being better at D&D than these guys?

The obvious answer: **** no.

These pics are great in so many ways. In the top one, they are sitting at a Basque Dining Table and chairs from Crate & Barrel. How do I know? I own the very same set. Believe it came out in the early 2000s. We bought ours for our first house.

In the bottom one, we had that very same metal folding table in our basement. Used it many a time to set up lego builds in the '70s. The DM screen is one I actually owned. Notice, too, the Mork & Mindy suspenders on young Stollcpa and the rather large class ring on the guy behind him. Peak '70s drip.

 

[hoosboot]

Jordan is still the best and Kobe was better than LeBron. These sports aren't pure athletic feats like racing and swimming. There are other components that go into them. The best athletes don't always make the best players.

The cult of Kobe has to stop. He was incredible, but I saw him up close for two decades and I don't think he's a Top 5 player.

People love to disrespect Lebron, but he's really remarkable.

 

[mcmurtry66]

To be fair, soccer is a bit different as the athletic component, while important, takes a distant 2nd place to skill.

Manipulation of an object (ball) + intelligence + creativity

It’s also why I loved Iverson when other IU fans shit on him. He was six foot (allegedly) and a buck seventy soaking wet. Barely missed a game.

He is a giant POS though.

To be fair, soccer is a bit different as the athletic component, while important, takes a distant 2nd place to skill.

Manipulation of an object (ball) + intelligence + creativity

It’s also why I loved Iverson when other IU fans shit on him. He was six foot (allegedly) and a buck seventy soaking wet. Barely missed a game.

He is a giant POS though.

well said. It explains how you can pull a philosopher from a coffee shop and drop him in the middle of a field and he’ll take it over.

This has become a nice little thread