Mendoza: Upgrade? Downgrade? or Wash?

[Courtsensetwo]

I am a big Rourke fan and where he may lack in physicality he more than makes up for with his heady approach to real time decisions and changes. Cannot teach that.

Mendoza comes in as one of if not the top QB transfer and he was enough to make TJ move to FL.

I am also more knowledgeable about Hoops than FB.

So

Do we get more, less, the same or just different?

 

[Seyton]

I think Mendoza is an upgrade because he's done it against better competition than Rourke, whom I really liked. I think this will show up in games against the big boys where, let's face it, Rourke did not play well.

 

[Hoosier Clarion]

I am a big Rourke fan and where he may lack in physicality he more than makes up for with his heady approach to real time decisions and changes. Cannot teach that.

Mendoza comes in as one of if not the top QB transfer and he was enough to make TJ move to FL.

I am also more knowledgeable about Hoops than FB.

So

Do we get more, less, the same or just different?

Measurably better. The IU OL will be better than KR enjoyed and head and shoulders better than Mendoza suffered on the left coast and still put SICK #'s not even considering a more positive rushing attack. 2 seasons of him will be headline making. The IU offense this season will be the consistency to the D.

 

[IUNorth]

I am a big Rourke fan and where he may lack in physicality he more than makes up for with his heady approach to real time decisions and changes. Cannot teach that.

Mendoza comes in as one of if not the top QB transfer and he was enough to make TJ move to FL.

I am also more knowledgeable about Hoops than FB.

So

Do we get more, less, the same or just different?

Upgrade over what Rourke was capable of doing last year, against elite teams. I think a healthy Rourke, is probably better than Mendoza. And Rourke got every last ounce of production he could have, while playing essentially on 1 leg.

But we've put ourselves in a position where the measuring stick now should be how we play against CFP level teams. And because IU is still "behind" in talent versus most teams in that category, having a quarter back that can extend plays with his legs, will be huge. Whoever our QB is, is not likely going to be able to stand tall in the pocket, against CFP level teams, and pick teams apart. I'm not sure ANY QB is able to do that any more. Quinn Ewers is a great example. He had arguably the best offensive line in the country in front of him, and he was seemingly healthy....but he isn't really capable of extending plays or throwing off script. And against the elite defenses he faced this year, that showed.

Rourke better passer. Rourke incredible leader. Mendoza better all around for where we want to progress to.

 

[mushroomgod_1]

I think Mendoza is an upgrade because he's done it against better competition than Rourke, whom I really liked. I think this will show up in games against the big boys where, let's face it, Rourke did not play well.

Just looking at their respective #s at Ohio & Cal, I think Mendoza's a slight upgrade....

There are certain things about Mendoza that do give me some pause....

--First, their schedule this year was very favorable. He did not face any defense that would rival that of OSU, Michigan, Oregon, Indiana......

--Second, 41 sacks in 11 games is a hell of a lot. I wonder how well he moves within the pocket to take that many sacks, even with a crappy OL, while noting that he has pretty good straight-ahead speed.

--Third, he was only a 2* guy coming out of HS.......I know, I know,,,rankings.....

So, here are some things that I like about him--

--From what I've read, he maintained a positive attitude throughout despite being sacked so often....and also, that does show some physical toughness and durability.....I look at a guy like Jack Tuttle in contrast.

--Only throwing 6 ints last year with so much pressure is pretty encouraging.

Coming in Rourke had a completion % a few points lower, and a good # of ints, at a lower level of competition.....also Rourke had more experience coming in....Mendoza's only started about 1 1/2 years. Cig was able to iron out his int problems. Given Cig's history of QB success, and what he did with Rourke, absent injury I don't expect a drop-off and hope for even more success.

 

[mushroomgod_1]

Upgrade over what Rourke was capable of doing last year, against elite teams. I think a healthy Rourke, is probably better than Mendoza. And Rourke got every last ounce of production he could have, while playing essentially on 1 leg.

But we've put ourselves in a position where the measuring stick now should be how we play against CFP level teams. And because IU is still "behind" in talent versus most teams in that category, having a quarter back that can extend plays with his legs, will be huge. Whoever our QB is, is not likely going to be able to stand tall in the pocket, against CFP level teams, and pick teams apart. I'm not sure ANY QB is able to do that any more. Quinn Ewers is a great example. He had arguably the best offensive line in the country in front of him, and he was seemingly healthy....but he isn't really capable of extending plays or throwing off script. And against the elite defenses he faced this year, that showed.

Rourke better passer. Rourke incredible leader. Mendoza better all around for where we want to progress to.

Your second paragraph is such a great point.....,,but Mendoza did take 41 sacks this year, so I'm concerned against top level Ds, although I get it that his OL sucked. ...........that NC game was a real eye opener about running QBs. Leonard, obviously, but Howard's planned and unplanned runs were huge for OSU. Both of them were just tough as hell. You just need that at the QB position in CF going forward, given the sophisticated blitz packages.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

He lost six games.

Why?

 

[IUNorth]

Your second paragraph is such a great point.....,,but Mendoza did take 41 sacks this year, so I'm concerned against top level Ds, although I get it that his OL sucked. ...........that NC game was a real eye opener about running QBs. Leonard, obviously, but Howard's planned and unplanned runs were huge for OSU. Both of them were just tough as hell. You just need that at the QB position in CF going forward, given the sophisticated blitz packages.

Definitely. And running quarterbacks doesn't have to mean Mike Vick, Lamar Jackson types. Just an ability to get 3rd downs with your legs.

The sack numbers definitely are a concern. Could mean he holds on to the ball too long. That became an issue with Rourke, too, when we played against the elite level defenses.

 

[vesuvius13]

I liked Rourke and what he did for IU; however, I think Mendoza will be an upgrade due to his agility. I hope our coaches can get him to see defense fast enough to avoid QB sacks and get the ball to receiver for 75% or more,

 

[kmathum]

I am a big Rourke fan and where he may lack in physicality he more than makes up for with his heady approach to real time decisions and changes. Cannot teach that.

Mendoza comes in as one of if not the top QB transfer and he was enough to make TJ move to FL.

I am also more knowledgeable about Hoops than FB.

So

Do we get more, less, the same or just different?

He’s going to have to go some to be as good as Rourke. Kurtis set a high standard as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Tammany Hall]

FYI

 

[Big Red Crimson Buffalo]

He lost six games.

Why?

You should probably take a look at the scores of the 6 losses. These were largely 1-5 point deficits.
I don’t think we can sit here and say “He lost six games.” I think looking at the game highlights, Mendoza did as much as he could do to keep them in games. They had a bad loss to Florida State on the road and got blown out by SMU. Other than that, they were competitive all season and their OL was pretty suspect.

 

[Big Red Crimson Buffalo]

He’s going to have to go some to be as good as Rourke. Kurtis set a high standard as far as I'm concerned.

Rourke’s 2 issues (which are understandable seeing that he was playing on a bad ACL) were:

1. Almost no mobility. Sudfeld-like. You watch these other games whether it was Notre Dame or Ohio State or half a dozen other teams and they all had quarterbacks that could run out of trouble. Rourke couldn’t do that.

2. I don’t think I ever saw him throw a ball away. I’m sure there were some but, man, it seemed like every time he got under pressure. He just kind of ducked down and got sacked. We can point to the offensive line, but in many of these other games, there were quarterbacks that were pressured, but they were able to get out on the run and throw the ball or escape trouble and move down field with her legs.

 

[Irregulars]

He’s going to have to go some to be as good as Rourke. Kurtis set a high standard as far as I'm concerned.

Could not agree more...

 

[red hornet]

Kurtis Roarke has set a high standard for Indiana QBs. Let's hope Fernando continues the QB tradition of Coach Cignetti legacy.

 

[Walt542]

I do think FM’s mobility will be an advantage. To me it comes down to how fast he can make and execute the proper reads. That is what Rourke did so well and was improving on every game until he got his thumb hurt. It was obvious the staff was able to teach it to Kurtis. If FM can learn and improve on that like KR then we can have another good one and maybe a very good one.

 

[UncleMark]

Almost no mobility. Sudfeld-like. You watch these other games whether it was Notre Dame or Ohio State or half a dozen other teams and they all had quarterbacks that could run out of trouble. Rourke couldn’t do that.

Until we hit MI, OSU, and ND, I thought Rourke had really good pocket awareness and was able to step up or sidestep enough to buy time and get the pass off. It was the size and speed of the top level rushers that he had trouble with.

 

[Grateful Redbeard]

Just looking at their respective #s at Ohio & Cal, I think Mendoza's a slight upgrade....

There are certain things about Mendoza that do give me some pause....

--First, their schedule this year was very favorable. He did not face any defense that would rival that of OSU, Michigan, Oregon, Indiana......

--Second, 41 sacks in 11 games is a hell of a lot. I wonder how well he moves within the pocket to take that many sacks, even with a crappy OL, while noting that he has pretty good straight-ahead speed.

--Third, he was only a 2* guy coming out of HS.......I know, I know,,,rankings.....

So, here are some things that I like about him--

--From what I've read, he maintained a positive attitude throughout despite being sacked so often....and also, that does show some physical toughness and durability.....I look at a guy like Jack Tuttle in contrast.

--Only throwing 6 ints last year with so much pressure is pretty encouraging.

Coming in Rourke had a completion % a few points lower, and a good # of ints, at a lower level of competition.....also Rourke had more experience coming in....Mendoza's only started about 1 1/2 years. Cig was able to iron out his int problems. Given Cig's history of QB success, and what he did with Rourke, absent injury I don't expect a drop-off and hope for even more success.

Rourke was a ZERO star out of HS. Ohio only gave him a shot because his big bro was the starting QB there already

 

[Grateful Redbeard]

I think that Mendoza will be an upgrade. He started in the ACC last year. He put up better stats against better competition than Rourke did against worse competition at Ohio. We all love Rourke, but this isn't a slight. it's just acknowledging that Mendoza has a much higher ceiling that Rourke, and this coaching staff has shown a phenomenal ability to bring in transfer QB's and have them excl in their 1st season under their tutelage. Mendoza will be the best talent they've ever had a chance to work with.

 

[Mark Milton]

I am a big Rourke fan and where he may lack in physicality he more than makes up for with his heady approach to real time decisions and changes. Cannot teach that.

Mendoza comes in as one of if not the top QB transfer and he was enough to make TJ move to FL.

I am also more knowledgeable about Hoops than FB.

So

Do we get more, less, the same or just different?

He doesn't read defenses as well as Rourke, and Rourke has a really good arm that we rarely saw when he was here because of his torn ACL. Not that Mendoza can't sling it--he can. The upgrade on Mendoza comes from his ability to move that Rourke lost with his injury. Mendoza can run. Not elusive, but he can motor to get into space, and then his long strides take over.

Hard to say at this point, but I do know that we all are going to appreciate how good Rourke was a decade from now.

 

[Vern Pain]

He doesn't read defenses as well as Rourke, and Rourke has a really good arm that we rarely saw when he was here because of his torn ACL. Not that Mendoza can't sling it--he can. The upgrade on Mendoza comes from his ability to move that Rourke lost with his injury. Mendoza can run. Not elusive, but he can motor to get into space, and then his long strides take over.

Hard to say at this point, but I do know that we all are going to appreciate how good Rourke was a decade from now.

I guess from that, I just defer to Saban who referred to Cig as a "Quarterback whisperer". Cig himself commented on how he had several QBs in a row who were best in conference and it didn't matter whether they were traditional drop back guys, runners, or hybrid. He knows how to maximize their skill set.

Maybe I'm just a Kool aid drinker😁

 

[YOTHN]

He doesn't read defenses as well as Rourke, and Rourke has a really good arm that we rarely saw when he was here because of his torn ACL. Not that Mendoza can't sling it--he can. The upgrade on Mendoza comes from his ability to move that Rourke lost with his injury. Mendoza can run. Not elusive, but he can motor to get into space, and then his long strides take over.

Hard to say at this point, but I do know that we all are going to appreciate how good Rourke was a decade from now.

Fernando definitely has a better ability to run but he only had 105 total rushing yards last year. Rourke averaged 253 ypg passing while Mendoza avg 273 ypg. Mendoza spread the ball out even more than Rourke did. He had completions to 18 different players to Rourkes 16. Mendoza had 6 players with over 200yds receiving to Rourkes 5.

I don't think the perception of value Rourke provided us is misunderstood. He was a top 10 level Heisman candidate with an apparent torn ACL. But it's hard to overlook how talented Mendoza was with an atrocious team around him at Cal. Will that translate? I don't know but I for one am not discounting the idea that he could perform better than an injured Rourke did.

 

[Grateful Redbeard]

Here are the postseason honors for the QB's Cig has coached over the years:

CFN Big Ten Offensive Transfer of the Year
Kurtis Rourke, QB, Indiana
CFN Big Ten Quarterback of the Year
Kurtis Rourke, Indiana

CFN First-Team All-Big Ten​

QB: Kurtis Rourke, Indiana
*He was 2nd team everywhere else, but CFN loved him like I loved him, so I added all their accolades*

All-Sun Belt First Team Offense
QB – Jordan McCloud, James Madison (RS Sr., QB – Tampa, Fla.)

All-Sun Belt Second Team Offense
QB – Todd Centeio, James Madison (Gr., QB – West Palm Beach, Fla.)

2021 CAA Football First Team Offense
Player, School	Pos.	Class	Hometown
Cole Johnson, James Madison	QB	Sr.	Virginia Beach, Va.

*In 2020 the CAA canceled the season due to Covid*

2019 CAA Football First Team Offense
Player, School	Pos.	Class	Hometown
Ben DiNucci, James Madison	QB	Sr.	Wexford, Pa.

PSAC 2012 Offensive Player of the Year – Harvey Tuck, IUP

He was also the QB coach for Phillip Rivers at NC St. and he also recruited Russell Wilson there. Saban called him the QB whisperer during his time at Bama. Rourke played this season on only 1 ACL, got his wife pregnant with twins, broke his thumb, had surgery to fix his thumb, only missed one game, and still had one of the greatest seasons in school history statistically. He also led us to our most wins ever to start a season, most wins ever in a season, and into the playoffs for the 1st time in history. Those are enormous shoes to fill for Mendoza, and who knows if he will be able to match or exceed Rourke's historic season? That wasn't the question though.

The question asked was if Mendoza was an upgrade, downgrade, or a wash over Rourke? Mendoza, who is younger and has played less football than Rourke did before he transferred to IU, had better stats against better competition (ACC vs MAC) when they were the same age, and is now the best QB talent that Cig has ever had as a head coach. There's no opinion in that observation either. Here are their career passing stats:

Kurtis Rourke Career Stats​

CMP	ATT	CMP%	YDS	AVG	TD	INT	LNG	RTG
222	320	69.4	3,042	9.5	29	5	84	176.0
195	307	63.5	2,207	7.2	11	5	50	132.5
244	353	69.1	3,256	9.2	25	4	75	167.7
171	261	65.5	1,817	7.0	11	7	66	132.5
30	44	68.2	386	8.8	3	0	58	164.4

Fernando Mendoza Career Stats​

CMP	ATT	CMP%	YDS	AVG	TD	INT	LNG	SACK	RTG
153	243	63.0	1,708	7.0	14	10	54	16	132.8
265	386	68.7	3,004	7.8	16	6	66	41	144.6

Rourke clearly excelled in years 3-5, with year 5 being by far his best ever season while under Cig at IU. Mendoza played a lot more early on at Cal than Rourke did, so his stats dwarf what Rourke put up in his 1st 2 years at Ohio. Mendoza also did this against much better competition playing in the PAC12 as a frosh, and in the ACC as a soph. Mendoza threw for 4,712 yards passing and 30 TD's in his 1st 2 seasons. Rourke threw for 2,203 yards passing and 14 TD's in his 1st 2 seasons. Mendoza's resume after 2 seasons blows Rourke's away when you factor in that he also did it against much better competition. There is no doubt that Mendoza is by far the best QB talent that Cig has ever had, and there is no doubt that Cig does a phenomenal job coaching up QB's and getting the best out of them. That qualifies as a solid upgrade to me.

 

[Mark Milton]

Fernando definitely has a better ability to run but he only had 105 total rushing yards last year. Rourke averaged 253 ypg passing while Mendoza avg 273 ypg. Mendoza spread the ball out even more than Rourke did. He had completions to 18 different players to Rourkes 16. Mendoza had 6 players with over 200yds receiving to Rourkes 5.

I don't think the perception of value Rourke provided us is misunderstood. He was a top 10 level Heisman candidate with an apparent torn ACL. But it's hard to overlook how talented Mendoza was with an atrocious team around him at Cal. Will that translate? I don't know but I for one am not discounting the idea that he could perform better than an injured Rourke did.

Mendoza was sacked like 47 times last year, so rushing yards come off that. Remove half the sacks, and he's coming in at 7.7 yards per carry with a bunch of yards rushing

 

[Irregulars]

Fernando definitely has a better ability to run but he only had 105 total rushing yards last year. Rourke averaged 253 ypg passing while Mendoza avg 273 ypg. Mendoza spread the ball out even more than Rourke did. He had completions to 18 different players to Rourkes 16. Mendoza had 6 players with over 200yds receiving to Rourkes 5.

I don't think the perception of value Rourke provided us is misunderstood. He was a top 10 level Heisman candidate with an apparent torn ACL. But it's hard to overlook how talented Mendoza was with an atrocious team around him at Cal. Will that translate? I don't know but I for one am not discounting the idea that he could perform better than an injured Rourke did.

I think what hurt Mendoza's rush yards was his sack yardage is subtracted to get his net rushing yardage.

 

[Irregulars]

Here are the postseason honors for the QB's Cig has coached over the years:

CFN Big Ten Offensive Transfer of the Year
Kurtis Rourke, QB, Indiana
CFN Big Ten Quarterback of the Year
Kurtis Rourke, Indiana

CFN First-Team All-Big Ten​

QB: Kurtis Rourke, Indiana
*He was 2nd team everywhere else, but CFN loved him like I loved him, so I added all their accolades*

All-Sun Belt First Team Offense
QB – Jordan McCloud, James Madison (RS Sr., QB – Tampa, Fla.)

All-Sun Belt Second Team Offense
QB – Todd Centeio, James Madison (Gr., QB – West Palm Beach, Fla.)

2021 CAA Football First Team Offense
Player, School	Pos.	Class	Hometown
Cole Johnson, James Madison	QB	Sr.	Virginia Beach, Va.

*In 2020 the CAA canceled the season due to Covid*

2019 CAA Football First Team Offense
Player, School	Pos.	Class	Hometown
Ben DiNucci, James Madison	QB	Sr.	Wexford, Pa.

PSAC 2012 Offensive Player of the Year – Harvey Tuck, IUP

He was also the QB coach for Phillip Rivers at NC St. and he also recruited Russell Wilson there. Saban called him the QB whisperer during his time at Bama. Rourke played this season on only 1 ACL, got his wife pregnant with twins, broke his thumb, had surgery to fix his thumb, only missed one game, and still had one of the greatest seasons in school history statistically. He also led us to our most wins ever to start a season, most wins ever in a season, and into the playoffs for the 1st time in history. Those are enormous shoes to fill for Mendoza, and who knows if he will be able to match or exceed Rourke's historic season? That wasn't the question though.

The question asked was if Mendoza was an upgrade, downgrade, or a wash over Rourke? Mendoza, who is younger and has played less football than Rourke did before he transferred to IU, had better stats against better competition (ACC vs MAC) when they were the same age, and is now the best QB talent that Cig has ever had as a head coach. There's no opinion in that observation either. Here are their career passing stats:

Kurtis Rourke Career Stats​

CMP	ATT	CMP%	YDS	AVG	TD	INT	LNG	RTG
222	320	69.4	3,042	9.5	29	5	84	176.0
195	307	63.5	2,207	7.2	11	5	50	132.5
244	353	69.1	3,256	9.2	25	4	75	167.7
171	261	65.5	1,817	7.0	11	7	66	132.5
30	44	68.2	386	8.8	3	0	58	164.4

Fernando Mendoza Career Stats​

CMP	ATT	CMP%	YDS	AVG	TD	INT	LNG	SACK	RTG
153	243	63.0	1,708	7.0	14	10	54	16	132.8
265	386	68.7	3,004	7.8	16	6	66	41	144.6

Rourke clearly excelled in years 3-5, with year 5 being by far his best ever season while under Cig at IU. Mendoza played a lot more early on at Cal than Rourke did, so his stats dwarf what Rourke put up in his 1st 2 years at Ohio. Mendoza also did this against much better competition playing in the PAC12 as a frosh, and in the ACC as a soph. Mendoza threw for 4,712 yards passing and 30 TD's in his 1st 2 seasons. Rourke threw for 2,203 yards passing and 14 TD's in his 1st 2 seasons. Mendoza's resume after 2 seasons blows Rourke's away when you factor in that he also did it against much better competition. There is no doubt that Mendoza is by far the best QB talent that Cig has ever had, and there is no doubt that Cig does a phenomenal job coaching up QB's and getting the best out of them. That qualifies as a solid upgrade to me.

Impressive research

 

[bbh_42]

Hard to say since I have really seen Mendoza play but I think maybe a wash or slight upgrade. I really liked what Rourke did and was even more impressed once I found out about the leg injury. I had expected Rourke to run a bit more and was surprised by the lack of scrambling he did at times but now it makes sense. All I know is if we can continue to get QB plays similar to what Rourke did then IU has a chance in any game they play. Especially if we can continue to upgrade the OL.

 

[Harry Hondo]

You should probably take a look at the scores of the 6 losses. These were largely 1-5 point deficits.
I don’t think we can sit here and say “He lost six games.” I think looking at the game highlights, Mendoza did as much as he could do to keep them in games. They had a bad loss to Florida State on the road and got blown out by SMU. Other than that, they were competitive all season and their OL was pretty suspect.

And I doubt Cal had a defense that was even half as good as ours. It’s hard to win when you need to outscore your opponent each game. Antwaan Randle-El had a lot of losses for the Cam Cameron teams, but would you be hesitant to take his clone next season?