returned 0 players from last year. built a roster in about a month, they went to the Bahamas on a business trip to establish a new brand. not a vacation. but the most important thing they accomplished this year was exposing Mike Woodson. that beatdown finally convinced the fence sitters that he is ill equipped to lead this program.
Louisville sits at 8-1 in the ACC with some very impressive road wins, are a top 25 team
- Thread starter kurt cloverdales
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Go back and look at my posts last spring when everyone was debating a new coach. I knew this would happen as I watched the teams he coached in Charleston and other programs in the area for years.
He gets it with players, fans, recruits etc etc
looks like he's about 5" 1" and is all tatted up. the world has changed on what a professional looks like, but the dude obviously can coach.
Who gives a shit what he looks like? Look what he did in less than a year. As a Louisville-area native but Indiana fan this is as depressing as hell. Indiana is mired in mediocrity (if that) while nearby "blue bloods" zoom past in the fast lane. Louisville has the NIL money and fan base to do whatever it wants. Including hiring a winner who knows how to build an insta-roster that plays together. Gonna be a lot of winning going on in Derby City.
I took it more as an observation than a condemnation.
Always a risk when a mid-major guy steps up, but I'd have bet on Kelsey even more than Dusty May. Guy has great energy, and I thought he'd get it figured out.
Iowa St. did the same thing a couple years ago. Had a disastrous season one year and completely rebuild the next. IU fans who make excuses that it takes 4 to 5 years for a coach to "build a team" are full of shit. Not in this day and age.
What really impressed me about Kelsey was his off-the-court approach, how he proactively interacted with the student body, walked around campus, got them hyped up about his philosophy and reignited a passion for UofL's tradition. When was the last time that happened at IU?
Kelsey sure looks like he's going to stick and have Louisville as a regular top 20 program going forward. But lets let that play out for a few years. One thing the portal can do, is what we're seeing with Louisville, Iowa State to a certain extent, Texas Tech a few years ago, Florida Atlantic and their Final Four run... it can very quickly produce great combos of talent and chemistry...but often times, those core groups will break up pretty quickly, or like in FAU's case, they'll lose their magic or mojo a little bit, and drop back.
I think Kelsey has already proven to be a very good coach, so I doubt Louisville takes any huge steps back under him. But there are other capable coaches out there. Heck, Kelsey, DeVries, Pope, and possibly even May, and their early successes this year at their new schools... actually give me more hope for how good we could be NEXT year, with some "no name" coach we haven't heard a ton about yet, than it does frustration that we missed out on a couple of these guys by not moving on Woody last year.
I think Kelsey has already proven to be a very good coach, so I doubt Louisville takes any huge steps back under him. But there are other capable coaches out there. Heck, Kelsey, DeVries, Pope, and possibly even May, and their early successes this year at their new schools... actually give me more hope for how good we could be NEXT year, with some "no name" coach we haven't heard a ton about yet, than it does frustration that we missed out on a couple of these guys by not moving on Woody last year.
Louisville is no Florida Atlantic. The Cardinals have been one of the most profitable programs in the country. They have all the cash they could ever want, and apparently someone in charge who knows how to spend it to build a team based on chemistry, not just stars. Woodson ain't going anywhere next year. Especially if IU sniffs the tourney.
This is the most depressing post I have read here for some months.
It gets even more depressing when you realize Kentucky is on a smilar trajectory as Louisville, it seems.
He doesn’t look like a politician so yes-fingers crossed.
The new coach for Indiana lol hey if he wins who cares but the look on people's faces priceless.
The new coach for Indiana lol hey if he wins who cares but the look on people's faces priceless.
Florida Atlantic basically completely rebuilt their roster the offseason before the 30 win, Final Four run season...They returned basically everyone from that team, and "only" won 25 games, didn't win their conference, and got bounced in the first round of the NCAAs...
Money didn't have anything to do with the point I was trying to make... Lets see what Kelsey does with the talent he'll likely be able to get, in year's 2,3,4, etc... Sometimes things just "fall in to place". Sometimes the talent doesn't jive as well.
I'd love to be wondering how that'd all be going down at IU, with Kelsey, for what its worth. But I think there are probably plenty of "Kelsey's" out there for IU to choose from here in a couple months.
That's absolute BS. Not sure why a loooievulle dude would say such a thing. Woody's ship has sailed. The meatgrinder part of the schedule is just now getting here. Once we lose another couple of games by 25, you'll see the light.
Is the circus in town?
The new coach for Indiana lol hey if he wins who cares but the look on people's faces priceless.
Agree with your post, until that last line. If there were plenty of coaches every year who could turn our program around, we'd have hit on one at some point over the last 20+ years. The # of guys who can step up and manage the demands of the recruiting game, and running a P5 program with expectations, I believe, is pretty small.
I think you're a slave of your expectations. "Good", can produce great results, right now, at IU, in my opinion. We don't have to get "lucky" and land great. It would be awesome if we do...I'm sure there are a handful of those guys out there. But there are a slew of "good" guys that will elevate IU, and start building momentum.
In order to understand my perspective...I'll say this...I think even Archie would be more successful than Woodson has been, this time around. When Archie came around, we were operating under IU's Bill of Rights philosophies. I think the portal and NIL, probably would have suited him more. Getting guys in short order, that fit him...rather than trying to fit with IU and the players he inherited.
So...if you don't agree with THAT...then the rest of this won't make any sense to you. And you obviously could be right, and me wrong. Just a hunch.
I don't think we need a "perfect fit" this next time around. I do think personality will be important, but in reference above, I think the portal and NIL helps with that, and widens the scope on the types of guys that could succeed at IU. In the end, I think all we need is a good college basketball coach. The IU machine will naturally elevate them.
Another example of how I'm thinking about this...a little more granular... If Woodson himself, had woken up yesterday with the Epiphone that he needed to quickly teach his players how to guard dangerous shooters on their hips, and ride and bump them off screens and through movement...and worked on that in the hotel conference room for an hour or so, and reminded them during the game about it, especially after Berry hit his first couple 3s...we would have won last night by double digits.
I remember learning about guarding shooters hips all the way back to middle school. And every single coach I had since middle school, taught that...even though all of them also had wall/nail/help side/drop and below/all switching, etc... basic philosophies. I believe, with all my heart, that Woodson never noticed or even thought about it last night. That's about as glaring an example of why I think he's so unfit for college coaching as anyone we've ever had.
So...how good would we feel if we had a marginally better coach than Woody, that had marginally better results, that had teams that play solid overall basketball?
First year, solid NCAA at large instead of play in. Maybe still first round loss.
Second year, a few more regular season wins, maybe a 3 seed, sweet 16 appearance.
Third year, back up a little bit, but still make the NCAAs, maybe win a game in tournament.
This year...no blowout losses, maybe 15-5, only 3 conference losses instead of 4, NET in the 20s/30s instead of where we're at.
That would be the single best 4 year consecutive run of any we've had since RMK...I believe. And it would only take someone that's marginally better than Woodson.
I agree with kkott. I don’t agree that if your goal is national championships that coaches are plug and play. All coaches have access to the portal. All nationally competitive teams have access to substantial NIL. There is nothing unique that IU offers that will elevate IU to national championship competition ex an exceptional coach.
Natty year 1...sure. I think a "good" coach could come to IU, have us B10 competitive year one, make the NCAAs, and the momentum that would create, would propel them forward and we'd become Natty/Final Four competitive again.
All IU's fan base needs to see is solid basketball, and then feel an obvious upward trajectory. We'll be back to WatShot type environment games, and we'll be in living rooms of top level HS and portal guys regularly once that happens.
What you say about nationally competitive programs, equal NIL, etc... is partially true. But then it isn't...we have one of the larger NIL BASKETBALL specific capacities in the nation. Look what Woodson was able to do last offseason...facing the obvious headwinds that his program wasn't overly conducive to good guard play. He still landed Rice and Carlyle, both highly sought after guards...and got a 5 star wing late in the process. Look what Pope was able to do at UK. He was solid at BYU, nothing spectacular though. And with the Big Blue Nation resources, he was able to essentially hand pick high level players to fit his program.
What does Ben McCollum do with elite level guys running his "Impose Your Will", pick n pop, force 2 on 1...philosophies?
And then there's our overall climate and environment. Be solid, play any sort of fun or inspiring style, and our fans will go bat shit over it. And as many announcers, opposing players, etc... have repeatedly said, long after the RMK days, Assembly Hall is just different when its "like that". And if what you say is true, and all other things are "equal" (they aren't), but if they are, the Electric Assembly Hall experience could be a big sway factor for guys that have similar NIL package offers.
Watch and Learn...Ha ha...
McCollum, DeVries, McMillan...
Beard, Oats, May...
The top 5 D2/D3/NAIA guys none of us have heard of...
The goal is to become a Natty Competitive program again. IU will provide the resources to attract the talent that will be required. They just need to find someone capable of putting solid basketball coaching and principles in to it. I fully believe that.
Sorry but not buying it. This sounds like the exact reasoning that resulted in this season. NIL is not the most important factor that results in a national championship. If it were Arkansas and IU would be in the national championship game.
The less resume a coaching hire has the higher the risk. To outplay the competition, that has good to excellent coaching and NIL and the portal, IU needs an exceptional coach.
Everything you discuss is "coaching" related, the challenge for coaches who move up, generally isn't that, imo: they have that figured out. It's the additional demands of managing the attention, navigating more boosters, alumni, recruiting, admin, press, etc... Archie had the "coaching" part in spades over Woodson, but I don't think he was any better with the management side, and maybe worse. CMW can be charming or at least funny at times... Archie absolutely despised press interation and I'm sure that attitude spilled over to other sides as well. I've been shocked at many mid-major guys who moved up and struggled (Monson, and the Iowa/Butler guy... Lickliter?), but I don't think those guys forgot how to coach, they just struggled to deal effectively with all the other "management" side and I think that's the greatest hurdle to moving up.
Assuming Beard isn’t an option and assuming Brad says no the search should end with Bucky McMillan.
I don't think anyone thinks you can just go out and hire anyone and they will automatically be successful. for every Monson there is a pearl. the archie hire has made everyone skeptical of hiring a so called up and comer. but in reality, that's really about the only avenue available. successful coaches at the highest level don't just make lateral moves. where IU North is 100 percent correct IU has so many built in advantages, we would damn near have our pick amongst coaches wanting to get to the top tier of college basketball
Hurley was a solid coach, that ran a solid system, for years...but wasn't even remotely competitive for Natty's, pre Portal/NIL...even with UConn... Portal/NIL a big contributing factor for changing that? Maybe its just coincidence...but I suspect not. 21-22 was the first season where portal/NIL played a huge role. He was treading water at UConn, while running solid stuff...NIL/Portal comes along...a year later he's the greatest coach in modern history. And he did it with multiple impact transfers on his roster, and multiple high level HS guys that likely commanded top dollar NIL wise. Hmmmmmmmm....
IU's resources + a solid college basketball coach... will = better results than we're seeing today. And when that happens, things will get exciting again, and momentum will start to build. Compete at at the top of the B10 most years, be a legit natty competitor every few years.
I've listed 8-10 guys in various posts recently... that I think are more likely than not to elevate our program, and start building momentum again. And I'm sure there are another 10-20 that would also do so, that I've never considered, or even heard of.
the search shouldn't end with any 1 candidate; think that's what's bitten us in the past: getting locked in on one target. Talk to lots of folks and see who gets recommended. Do Zoom interviews, and background checks and then in-persons with your final couple candidates. I'll bet Pat Kelsey wasn't the name most came up with at Lville last year, but I bet they are happy now! RMK, Dean Smith, Mike K..., none of those guys would've been the choice if they'd gone after just one guy.
Let’s look at Hurley’s first championship team (again)
Sanogo-Junior and at UConn since Freshman
Hawkins-Soph and at UConn sine Freshman
Karaban-Freshman at UConn
Clingan-Freshman at UConn
Newton-Portal first year at UConn
Jackson-Junior and at UConn since freshman
To imply Hurley built this championship team from the Portal/NIL is just not true. One player (Newton that averaged 6 ppg) with significant playing time was from the portal.
Cam Spencer 5th year was the only new portal player with much playing time for his second championship. He plugged a hole and was a good pick up.
I just looked at this year and only Reed is getting much playing time and is a new portal player.
I just looked at this year and only Reed is getting much playing time and is a new portal player.
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As for the freshman starters on his first championship-
Clingan was a local four star not that highly recruited and Karaban about the same.
NIL/Portal became the monster that it is today, late in the offseason between the 20-21 and 21-22 seasons. All we've ever experienced, at IU, with the current dynamics are Woodson coached teams. Look at the number of teams that have emerged, risen and fallen, etc... during the last 3 plus seasons. It gives good college basketball coaches an easier path to filling their rosters with players that fit their style. And since recruiting is an imperfect science, when they miss, its easier to react on a yearly basis.
Archie...he was at IU during the height of "Bill of Rights" philosophies. He inherited some players, and had very little "power" to reshape his roster when he arrived. Its easy to say its your job, go handle it, make the roster how you see fit...now a days. Back then, he literally could not do that. So its very possible, for the first couple years, part of his sourness was attributed to coaching kids that he knew didn't really fit how he wanted his teams to play. How different could his time at IU have been, if he had the IU powers of NIL and portal free reign, to go get guys the best combo of guys that fit how he wanted his teams to play?
