Legal challenges to Trump funding freezes--will the elimination of Chevron deference limit Trump's goal?
- Thread starter BradStevens
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I’m curious to see how it plays out. At this point let’s see what happens. Be amazing if we effectively shrink gov without a significant drop in services. But make no mistake this was definitely a bait and switch.We had an entire thread about Project 2025 and most/all of our most prominent MAGA posters claimed it had nothing to do with President Trump because at the time candidate Trump was distancing himself from it.
Project 2025
If you're pro-democracy and not familiar with the "Project 2025" manifesto and what it means for the country if Trump is elected, you need to be. Holy shit.indiana.forums.rivals.com
I never disputed that.
I have an example that I witnessed (nothing to do with trump). An IT person got fired years ago (apolitical position) because a mayor wanted to bring in the IT person that assisted him on his campaign. A decision based completely on politics. Taxpayers ended up paying damages to the person that was illegally removed from his job.
I think some of Trump's moves are to get people to leave on their own accord so he can fill positions regardless of whether the job is political or apolitical.
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Isn't it premature to be saying that? You're saying him trying to do something is unique to him....about something he hasn't even done. At least not yet.
This calls to memory a Daniels quote I liked. Here's the whole paragraph, which is timely because he talks about impoundment prior to the quip (bolded):
Are you saying he isn't trying? It is just stuck in courts at the moment (at least the stopping of services). Not sure what the status is on forcing people to stop working remotely.
I am curious, can the President really spend money this way, "we'll pay you for 8 months if you leave"? Would those people be a court case away from getting nothing?
I posted this up above, but potential appointees are reportedly being asked about loyalty and their MAGA revelation.
There can be more efficient cheaper ways to provide them. I was reading about excess administrative staff at VA in 2023. Bloat
We had an entire thread about Project 2025 and most/all of our most prominent MAGA posters claimed it had nothing to do with President Trump because at the time candidate Trump was distancing himself from it.
Project 2025
If you're pro-democracy and not familiar with the "Project 2025" manifesto and what it means for the country if Trump is elected, you need to be. Holy shit.
If Donald Trump is successful in paring federal headcount in any significant way, I will be pleasantly surprised -- and would gladly tip my hat to him. I'll still hate him, but I'll give him some credit.
He was downright terrible fiscally in his first term. And our structural budget continues to degrade as entitlement burdens grow. This kind of thing will only have a slight impact on what we've all known was coming. But something is better than nothing.
Appointees...to what positions?
It seems like we're talking about two different things.
Lawsuit claims systems behind OPM governmentwide email blast are illegal, insecure
A pair of whistleblowers believe the office skirted the law by not conducting a privacy impact assessment for an alleged “on-prem” server used to send mass emails to federal employees and store information from responses.
fedscoop.com
Trying to put loyalists in jobs to take the places of people he's offering buyouts to? No, I haven't seen anything that says he's trying to do that. All I've seen in regards to that is reducing headcounts.
Putting loyalists into appointed positions, yes. However, that's hardly unusual.
Lawsuit claims systems behind OPM governmentwide email blast are illegal, insecure
A pair of whistleblowers believe the office skirted the law by not conducting a privacy impact assessment for an alleged “on-prem” server used to send mass emails to federal employees and store information from responses.
They're suing to say that their employer can't send a mass email to everybody?
That complaint probably isn't going to land in the way they intend for it to.
Yes, it was. If he'd have told all of us he was going to do this before the election, I might have actually voted for him.
I too want to see how it shakes out. But the lying from all of these people is out of control. Voters at this point can’t believe a word any of them say
Musk visits OPM following workforce assignments for DOGE
Amanda Scales, a former employee of Elon Musk’s AI company, was recently tapped to be the chief of staff at OPM.
www.govexec.com
And Scales seems to be a government employee
Yea, no proof yet of how he is replacing people that he is pushing out but I don't see why he would take the trouble if he wasn't putting in loyalists. It's not the first time i have seen this strategy...although probably the first on this scale.
You're more sure than I am that he's going to replace them at all.
Anyway, if he does put supporters in these positions, we can discuss it then. But to do it now is pretty obviously premature. Right now they're just trying to get lots of people to take a buyout and resign.
He does seem to be doing what he said he was going to do regarding immigration enforcement, anyway.
But culling the federal workforce would just be a bonus. Milei did that in Argentina too, God love him.
So thinking it might be a plan b if his taking away funding doesn't work? Make sure there isn't manpower to provide the services instead.
They’re saying the system used hasn’t been certified and authorized to contain sensitive personal information. If that’s true, they have a case. To this day I have free identity protection because of a personal information breach of an OPM system from years ago.
This closely aligns to the Project 2025 vision that nearly everyone denied on this forum and Trump's campaign. I could quote the full article but here' are some excerpts related to their merit-based hiring...
"Some officials have referred to the newcomers sent by the White House to federal agencies disparagingly as “MAGA commissars,” a reference to Communist Party officials from the former Soviet Union.
They are generally young and many do not appear to have particular expertise or background in the portfolios of the agencies in which they are working, according to three U.S. officials, who, like others, spoke on condition of anonymity for fear of reprisals."
"The AP has reported that career civil servants who work on the White House National Security Council have been questioned by senior Trump administration officials about which candidate they voted for in the election, their political contributions and whether they have made social media posts that could be considered incriminating by Trump’s team."
Isn't this pretty much the same as DEI hires or whatever you guys call them?
Two different things.
The funding he paused was for federal grants and loans. The problem he has there is that the grants and loans were already allocated and funded by Congress -- which would make it impoundment. And POTUS is statutorily prohibited from impounding allocated funds. He's going to lose that lawsuit...unless the ICA itself is found to violate separation of powers. But I doubt that will happen. Congress has the power of the purse. The executive's check on that power is the veto pen, not impoundment.
I would guess that both of these efforts are emanating from DOGE, however.
If that’s the case then they will have to slow their roll here.
There is a lot of beware of the boogeyman in there as well. The left and the far right always need one. It’s the only way to focus that hate
Are you suggesting that DEI policies influencing hiring decisions is a myth?
Out of curiosity, what do you think DEI departments do at the institutions which have had them?
You are definitely the one that I would have picked to put Blue Waffle in a post.
This is kinda on point to what I am talking about in the other thread (with my BIL's research). The question is, if this goes to the courts, does the money still get held up until the court ruling, or will the stay allow the funds to continue to flow? The 90 day hold could turn into a year as the sides bicker back and forth.
He took off his belt to remind us who is in charge!!!!!! #Fatherfathering
It's moot now. The OMB has rescinded the order.
To answer your question, I really don't know. It would seem to me that a stay against the pause order would result in the funds being disbursed as previously scheduled. But that's only an uneducated guess.
Does he even have the option to not replace them? I don't know who decides how many positions are needed in which jobs.
Another survivor. Meetings are on Thursdays at 9p eastern.
No, I'm suggesting MAGA/P2025 announced hiring should be based on merit rather than focused on DEI. MAGA is now hiring based on their set of values rather than merit.
DEI has likely impacted hiring at some institutions, corps, and agencies. I've been on hiring committees at four higher ed institutions and we have never hired someone based on whatever might be considered DEI.
From my experience, DEI depts are typically a branch of a larger dept. They provide voluntarily employee trainings (that I've found some staff could use) and provide support for student populations (first-gen, disabled/accessiblity, etc.). In my experience, nothing radical like a state Gov signing an EO to make abortion records public.
He can order a hiring freeze, but they have to replace the majority of them. Remote work and telework are two different things.
Remote work means the person can do his/her job completely without ever needing to be in the building. I know of a DoD organization in Monterey that has over 50 percent working elsewhere and it isn’t a problem. In fact, they couldn’t all fit in their building on the Naval Postgraduate School campus. They all get the same base pay but their locality pay (percentage extra) is based on where they live and work remotely, so they get paid less than those in Monterey which has an extremely high cost of living. The government is saving a ton of money with these remote workers. Ending it would cost the government a ton of money as the government would be on the hook for relocation expenses and for higher salaries due to living in higher cost of living locales like Monterey (and DC area).
Telework is for people who would normally work in the building. Before COVID it was just an occasional thing but during COVID it became the norm and people got used to it and wanted to continue mostly teleworking after COVID. No doubt it was abused by some and poor supervisors let that happen. Returning to pre-COVID occasional telework isn’t a big problem and I think the right thing to do.
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